Hard Mode Content Participation Poll

[blue4333]

running it just for the novelty or the kicks i guess. but it sometimes feels like fanfiction to me; rewards are meh.

[JasperStone]

19 hours ago, Marbing said:

The hard mode content is an absolute blast. I just don’t usually have enough play time in one session to participate all the time.

This is where I fall.

I do like it, but time is the greater challenge

[Xiddo]

I’m in the sometimes group. If it’s being advertised I’ll try and join (I.E. ask my partner if I can play for that long 😉). I’d never run it because I have *no idea what to do for the new bits*.
 

I don’t mind about the rewards really. I’ve accumulated enough inf, I’ve got enough merits, I’ve got the 50s I like playing. I’m playing cos I enjoy the game that I missed for so long. I’m fully on board for them taking their time to develop the hard stuff as long as other stuff is being done too (which is another conversation).

 

I think some pre-existing content can be “challenging” or “hard” but some of it is just the stuff people don’t run often. Who Will Die (part 1) on +2-4 is “hard”. Silver Mantis’ last mission can be chaos and needs teamwork if you’re doing anything higher than +2.

[Techwright]

Confession: I've never really taken the time to understand what Hard Mode is all about.  Sure the title implies something but my rapid conclusions drawn from it and the pitches in LFG are:

 

1. It takes too much time.

2. Is for those who've customized their characters to the Nth degree to solo AVs.

 

As the first point is inconsistent for me, and I'm still gradually working toward the second, my impressions, lack of facts they may be, influence my lack of participation.

 

This is not to say I'd never do something hard.  I like a solid challenge, and rewards are icing to the cake. Completing the challenge is its own reward, and I don't require rewards (except perhaps a badge) if I've already fully tricked out my character.  But if its going to be necessary to be tricked out to the Nth degree to keep from faceplanting every 5 minutes, it's not an event anywhere in my immediate future or interest.

[Seed22]

3 hours ago, arcane said:

I don’t think the point of hard mode was to have the most optimal and efficient rewards. In fact that’s hardly ever the case in any game. Might have something to do with the word “hard” or the perhaps the word “challenge”. 

I call it “sweaty” or “minmax” content. I usually do it once or periodically but thats what the content essentially is.

…..That doesnt mean I wont do it 😛

Edited August 16, 2022 by Seed22

[stonehd]

2 hours ago, Techwright said:

Confession: I've never really taken the time to understand what Hard Mode is all about.  Sure the title implies something but my rapid conclusions drawn from it and the pitches in LFG are:

 

1. It takes too much time.

2. Is for those who've customized their characters to the Nth degree to solo AVs.

 

 

This - #2 in particular is why I'm not interested in the Hard Mode content.  I use IOs pretty sparingly, mostly when they offer a great proc that fits my character's concept.  Otherwise I'm fine with the game's content as-is.  Hard Mode seems like an invitation to a grind fest I don't enjoy - more work than fun.  But hey, live and let live; not everything in the game is for me.  

Edited August 16, 2022 by stonehd

[Astralock]

I join when either I know everyone on the team running it, or I can get enough people I know to do it without having to PUG at all.  I don't trust PUGs not to rage quit as it's happened both times I joined a PUG hard mode Dr. Aeon SF.  The TFs, SFs, and trials towards the end of Paragon Studios' run on the game were becoming too short, more like bite-sized snacks than an actual TF, SF, or trial.  Not to mention that the majority of the game's content has become too easy on Homecoming thanks to the increased availability of PvP IO enhancements, purple IO enhancements, winter set IO enhancements, ATO enhancements, and Incarnate abilities, to the point that I could roll my face on my keyboard and still win.  Hard mode is a nice change of pace.

[BraveDecoy]

Mostly it comes down to a matter of time for me.  From what I've seen in the beta forums it seems like the Hard mode ITF is a brutal slog that requires min/max building your character with all kinds of expensive IOs and grinding out T4 Incarnate powers.  I've heard that the Aeon SF is loaded with all kinds of lore and easter eggs but the only teams my characters can survive on are the "Blitz the Base Difficulty for the reward enhancement" teams.  I'm sure there's a target audience for Hard Mode stuff, but I'm not it.  

 

[Ironblade]

On 8/15/2022 at 3:35 PM, Seed22 said:

How often do you run HM content and do you personally plan to run the content more or less once Page 4 drops?

Up until page 4, I only ran it when there were badges involved.

Now they're adding a new currency from hard mode so I might run it more often (since you need the new currency to get badges).

[Ruin Mage]

On 8/15/2022 at 2:35 PM, Seed22 said:

If you do run HM content, could you please state which star difficulty you run it at? How often do you run HM content and do you personally plan to run the content more or less once Page 4 drops?

2-4 star depending on the team set up and what we're doing. Dr. Aeon? More often than not 2-3 star. 4 star if the team looks good and can handle the Vanguard fight.

Upcoming HM ITF? I'm charging right at 4 star and I am going to live for the FUN and also guide people through the differences between regular and HM.

I plan to run it as often as I can.

EDIT: HM TFs do not take 3 hours unless its 4 star, your first time, or you decided to do AT stacking and/or brought unfinished characters. Yarp.

I will gladly take people through good HM runs on Everlasting once P4 drops.

Edited August 17, 2022 by Shadeknight

[Yomo Kimyata]

I'm assuming OP is referring to the four star system specifically as opposed to just engaging in challenging content?

 

I'm glad they instituted it as a system, but I feel it's a few years late in the process.  I mostly solo, and I'll probably run some two star content to see if I can, but probably not more than that.  +4 AVs are generally doable in most of my builds, but it's tedious and spending twenty minutes doing that without any specific "reward" probably isn't worth my time.

 

I feel that there are far too few players in the HC system to get a real variety of play options running.  It would be great if you could want to do an Aeon at a given time and have a choice of 4 star or 2 star or no star, but that's probably no longer feasible.  So I'll just solo it at my own pokey pace.

[Top Gear]

If you really want a challenge without being forced into a sociopath led team for 3 hours, simply don't use any incarnates and use a build that doesn't take advantage of IO sets. That way you can solo grind to your heart's content.

 

Only 74 poll votes since Monday should tell you all you need to know about the reality of interest in hard mode conversations and play.

Edited August 17, 2022 by Top Gear

[ZacKing]

No interest in hard mode.  Too long a slog for me and not my idea of fun.  I never see this advertised in LFG or in the various team forming channels I belong to on Torch and Excel.  No issue with it being available to those who want to try and tell others how to play though. 

[arcane]

2 hours ago, Top Gear said:

Only 74 poll votes since Monday should tell you all you need to know about the reality of interest in hard mode conversations and play.

You obviously have no idea how many people are interested in the content that don’t post on the forums.

[Ruin Mage]

2 hours ago, Top Gear said:

Only 74 poll votes since Monday should tell you all you need to know about the reality of interest in hard mode conversations and play.

Forums are not a great place for polls because not everyone uses the forums. Nice try though.

 

 

2 hours ago, Top Gear said:

If you really want a challenge without being forced into a sociopath led team for 3 hours, simply don't use any incarnates and use a build that doesn't take advantage of IO sets. That way you can solo grind to your heart's content.

Nice way to insult people who like optional content, bud. Reeeeeal good look to call people who like Challenging Content sociopaths.

[Mezmera]

1 hour ago, Shadeknight said:

Forums are not a great place for polls because not everyone uses the forums. Nice try though.

 

A poll here is an okay sampler but it'd be good to paste that poll elsewheres as well particularly where all of the kids hang out.  

 

It's funny, half of the comments here are, to quote the great Sgt. Murtaugh, "I'm too old for this sh*t", and all they like to do is solo.  Like okay that's great this game has such vast resources that you never need to team or socialize beyond the forums but this game has some of the best teaming mechanics and that is the intent being a MMO and all which is what these Hard Mode task forces are designed to give more emphasis towards.  

[Seed22]

1 hour ago, Shadeknight said:

Forums are not a great place for polls because not everyone uses the forums. Nice try though.

 

 

Nice way to insult people who like optional content, bud. Reeeeeal good look to call people who like Challenging Content sociopaths.

As I see HM content I think things will play out like this:

 

• Similar to when Aeon came out, ITF will hijack the WST to drive interest in HM runs. You'll see more Kill Most than HM.
• ITF HM, since it has the benefit of being a well known TF in it's own right, will see a few more months of activity than Aeon
• Since there is no secret fight to ITF that requires badges, I think most folks will run it at 1-3 stars at the most.
• After, being conservative in guessing here, ~4-6 months? The novelty of this TF will run out completely and folks won't run it anymore, at least not the higher HM's.
• A very small part of the community will run it like they do relentless Aeon. Outside of that see bullet #4

While the forums may not be a great indicator, it's all we've got. In-game is too volatile. This poll and subsequent comments show me that probably on a large-scale bullets 3-4 apply. Bullet #5 will encompass the remainder. Not a bad thing, but I stand by this forecast of events, would be interested to be proven wrong though.

[Texman]

Sounds like a lot of people would try hardmode content if it wasn't for the time investment.  I wonder if there is a way to implement a hardmode option for say radio missions that would take a bit longer and offer more of a challenge than a regular +54x8.  As far as rewards it could  be something like increased chance for purple recipes drops, dunno just spit ballin here.

[Black Zot]

2 hours ago, arcane said:

You obviously have no idea how many people are interested in the content that don’t post on the forums.

 

Not very many, if how long it takes to put together a team for hardmode stuff on Everlasting is any indication.  You can literally form and fully run a Synapse TF (which is hard to get anyone interested in outside it being the weekly because of its length) in less time than it takes to recruit a team for 801 or Relentless runs.  (I just watched that happen a few days ago.)  If Dr. Q is the weekly, you can form and run THAT mess of a taskforce in less time than the hardmode recruiter needs to get a crew rolling.

[Ruin Mage]

30 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

• Similar to when Aeon came out, ITF will hijack the WST to drive interest in HM runs. You'll see more Kill Most than HM.
• ITF HM, since it has the benefit of being a well known TF in it's own right, will see a few more months of activity than Aeon
• Since there is no secret fight to ITF that requires badges, I think most folks will run it at 1-3 stars at the most.
• After, being conservative in guessing here, ~4-6 months? The novelty of this TF will run out completely and folks won't run it anymore, at least not the higher HM's.
• A very small part of the community will run it like they do relentless Aeon. Outside of that see bullet #4

I don't entirely disagree. So instead, have me going off random tangents related to the topic.

4-star gives the MOST rewards, but it requires the most work. I don't think 4-star will be a 3 hour struggle shuffle after people get used to the fights and the mechanics. It's a meatgrinder, but you'll see a set of people able to get it down to lower and lower. Incans aren't disabled on HMs after all and Incan is a life saver for speed. Plus ITF has well known maps by now so some adjustment and you'll see similar tactics to get stuff done.

It's not for everyone, and it was never meant to be for everyone to do on a daily basis. The new rewards and the boosted Reward Merit costs will give it a small incentive, but you're right in the idea that it won't be done much after a while. People don't have All The Time In The World these days, and that's fine. I like these Hard Mode things because it's something tough, its a team effort to complete, and it forces people to actually think rather than snore their way through +4/x8 Council Radios.

I will say the added fight of HM ITF is something everyone should experience, but the fun part? All 4 star settings have it! If you have a less than optimal team, 1-2 star is the way to go. You get the boosted mechanics but nowhere near the grinder of 3-4 star. Got a great team that works together and is a slaughtercyclone? Hit that 3-4 star and wreck its face.

 

 

36 minutes ago, Texman said:

I wonder if there is a way to implement a hardmode option for say radio missions that would take a bit longer and offer more of a challenge than a regular +54x8.  As far as rewards it could  be something like increased chance for purple recipes drops, dunno just spit ballin here.

That, and I am spitballing here, might require more time than HM TFs. Or maybe it'll take roughly the amount of time it took to do the HM ASF.

It would require Hard Versions of Malta, Council, Arachnos, Rikti, Carnies, and Circle I believe.
We have 1 of those done due to the ASF.

[arcane]

43 minutes ago, Black Zot said:

 

Not very many, if how long it takes to put together a team for hardmode stuff on Everlasting is any indication.  You can literally form and fully run a Synapse TF (which is hard to get anyone interested in outside it being the weekly because of its length) in less time than it takes to recruit a team for 801 or Relentless runs.  (I just watched that happen a few days ago.)  If Dr. Q is the weekly, you can form and run THAT mess of a taskforce in less time than the hardmode recruiter needs to get a crew rolling.

I think the problem with relying on “how long it takes to put a team together” as evidence of popularity is that it misses everyone who does these TF’s without using LFG. Which is more common with this kind of content because this difficulty is really not ideal for pick-up groups. I know a lot of people that do relentless ASF. I don’t know anyone that does it as regularly with pick-up randos.

Edited August 17, 2022 by arcane

[Astralock]

3 minutes ago, arcane said:

I think the problem with relying on “how long it takes to put a team together” as evidence of popularity is that it misses everyone who does these TF’s without using LFG. Which is more common with this kind of content because this difficulty is really not ideal for pick-up groups. I know a lot of people that do relentless ASF. I don’t know anyone that does it as regularly with pick-up randos.

 

Bingo.  As I already stated in the thread, I would never PUG it.

[MoonSheep]

21 minutes ago, Astralock said:

 

Bingo.  As I already stated in the thread, I would never PUG it.

 

ultimate hard mode - go into the atlas park AE building and recruit 7 fresh 50’s telling them you’ve found a great new farm, take them to a relentless ASF 

[Ruin Mage]

MoonSheep: I also happen to go by the name Satan.

You are cruel, MS.

[Seed22]

49 minutes ago, Astralock said:

 

Bingo.  As I already stated in the thread, I would never PUG it.

I think that creates it’s own problems. If folks never feel they can PUG it, how can the content get more facetime? I did try pugging it and it was rough, but I hope folks dont just scuttle away into their own little community. 
 

Instead I propose this: Folks who know should try and help players through it so we get a wider pool to play with, instead of just chalking it up to a lost cause. 
 

But because I know folks won’t do this, I’ll instead try to. On Fridays post page 4 launch, I will be running relentless runs of Aeon and ITF( not on the same day I’m not insane and sure as hell dont have time for that :P)

 

The kicker? It’ll be PUGed. I want 2-3 silent helpers to see things along/make sure the newer folks get THROUGH the run, and the rest will be off of LFG. I think this would circulate more folks through HM because:

 

1.) It’s on a day I figure more folks will have time. I’m hoping to run it in the late ish afternoons to allow more folks to get in on it!

 

2.) It shows the newer folks that yes this content CAN be done by you, and yes there ARE teams patient enough to help you through it.

 

I hope some folks here will join me in this effort! 
 

 

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by Seed22