Sins of the Devs are visited upon the players

[Seed22]

3 hours ago, InvaderStych said:

If a video game invokes anger and rage, then a break is in order. It is as simple as that.

This is very true.

 

Or, I propose, since CoH is so big of a MMO, before taking that big break try and find something that maybe you've always(not you specifically, just a general comment) wanted to do.

Wanna make that awesome AE arc? Now's the time.

Wanna do the long-form project that is base building? Get to it!

CoH is so casual, you can 'soft-break' by just doing the oodles of side activities that maybe have caught your eye but you never got around to.

 

It's working surprisingly well for me so far. Granted, I am now angry that I haven't been working on my arc like I should be whenever I do log in 😛

[Ukase]

2 hours ago, Seed22 said:

This is very true.

 

Or, I propose, since CoH is so big of a MMO, before taking that big break try and find something that maybe you've always(not you specifically, just a general comment) wanted to do.

Wanna make that awesome AE arc? Now's the time.

Wanna do the long-form project that is base building? Get to it!

CoH is so casual, you can 'soft-break' by just doing the oodles of side activities that maybe have caught your eye but you never got around to.

 

It's working surprisingly well for me so far. Granted, I am now angry that I haven't been working on my arc like I should be whenever I do log in 😛

I cannot agree with this enough. 

It is ...difficult for me to admit I'm getting bored with certain parts of this game. When it last shut down, I was actually a bit bored before then. The shut-down was actually well-timed for me. But, I'd hate to fill the time doing something else and then miss something - like a new development or opportunity. 

I've often thought about base building, but man, that is super tedious. It's like worse than crafting a zillion IOs. I can't imagine the old base builders who actually had to pay prestige to place all the cosmetic stuff we take for granted. 

I wish we could find a way to put in our own cut scenes in AE. I've got some stories to tell, but I can't figure out how to do things in a certain way within the Mission Architect system. 

[cranebump]

5 hours ago, Ukase said:

It would be insane to disagree with this...

It was. Now, get in the van with the nice men.:-)

[Grouchybeast]

The only time I've ever been really angry over CoH was when NCSoft shut it down.

 

ETA: Actually, that's not true.  On the old forums I did once write an angry post titled Synapse Is An Idiot, but I deleted it before I posted it, because life's too short.

Edited September 12, 2022 by Grouchybeast

[Puma]

On 9/6/2022 at 6:51 PM, PeregrineFalcon said:

This is a Super Hero game. Not a farm simulator. Can we all just admit that the primary purpose behind this game is to be a Super Hero and fight bad guys?

 

Now, that being said, I am glad that there are other things to do in CoH other than just beat up bad guys 24/7. But since farming is still the fastest and easiest way to make money in this game it's hard to take any complaints about the devs making farming difficult seriously.

Is farming, like...literally beating up bad guys at a faster rate for better influence or levels? 

 

[Ukase]

4 hours ago, Puma said:

Is farming, like...literally beating up bad guys at a faster rate for better influence or levels? 

 

Farming is such a trigger word for some. But there are so many things to farm for - influence, XP (the two don't always go hand in hand), emp merits, reward merits. 

In general, I think this latest page has done what the devs wanted it to do. It has taken what I would call the fringe farmer and led them to do other things, whether it be marketing or running the hard mode content when they can join a team, or get one together. 

I have no evidence to support this, just a gut feel. I know I've run more iTrials since Page 4 dropped than I did since Page 3 dropped up until page 4. Granted, that's only 4 iTrials, but that's still 4 more than before. 

[Neiska]

52 minutes ago, Ukase said:

In general, I think this latest page has done what the devs wanted it to do. It has taken what I would call the fringe farmer and led them to do other things, whether it be marketing or running the hard mode content when they can join a team, or get one together. 

I have no evidence to support this, just a gut feel. I know I've run more iTrials since Page 4 dropped than I did since Page 3 dropped up until page 4. Granted, that's only 4 iTrials, but that's still 4 more than before. 

 

In the groups I run with, it's done the exact opposite - made farming more necessary, in part due to the modification to the AE, as well as some ATs not being desired or feasible in the new high difficulty ITFs. I tried to join in the new fun, but given that my favored ATs aren't exactly welcome or desired I have pretty much shelved that play. So I find myself farming even more than before, and teaming with random people even less. I have also noticed a bit of a shift in some of the attitude during some in-game activities as well. I won't elaborate further because I don't wish to start another argument, suffice to say that it is an atmosphere that I have very little desire to be a part of.

 

Not to be taken as gospel for everyone, granted, just sharing some personal experience from myself and the groups of folks I typically run with. But to say it's been conductive to make "everyone" team more simply is inaccurate because for at least part of the community, its been the exact opposite.

[PeregrineFalcon]

6 hours ago, Puma said:

Is farming, like...literally beating up bad guys at a faster rate for better influence or levels?

I used to play Dungeons & Dragons when I was a young man. Have you ever played it? I still remember one of my favorite modules:

 

 

I have played through that module on more than one character. It was always interesting to see another DM's take on this adventure. But you know what I never did? I never said "Hey, let's have our characters rest and heal up and then enter the dungeon again and kill all of the monsters for XP again and get all of the same loot again. And then, next game session, we can do it again and again and again. Until we all hit max level!!! What do you guys think?"

 

Could we have done that? Sure. We never did because that's not intended game play.

 

Intended game play is that you play the module/quest/mission, you read the story, you fight the monsters, and then you move on to another adventure. That's intended game play.

 

Farming is NOT intended game play.

 

And that's the difference. And all of you who are arguing "but we beat up bad guys, just like you do" are being disingenuous because you know that farming is not intended game play. It's possible because of a side effect of some missions being replayable, but it's not intended game play. That's why this game has hundreds of missions and not 12 missions. Because repeating the same missions over and over and over and over and over is not intended game play.

 

As further proof that farming is NOT intended game play let me remind you all that the devs recently removed the AE from the starter zones, Atlas Park and Mercy Island.

 

So, if you want to farm then farm. I don't care. But please stop with the "but farming is just beating up the bad guys too, hur dur hur duuuuuurp." Farming is not like intended game play. You know it isn't. I know it isn't. Please stop trying to insult my intelligence by making these ridiculous comparisons.

[The_Warpact]

24 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I used to play Dungeons & Dragons

 

Farming is life nerd!

 

 

Fixt 😁

[ivanhedgehog]

41 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I used to play Dungeons & Dragons when I was a young man. Have you ever played it? I still remember one of my favorite modules:

 

 

I have played through that module on more than one character. It was always interesting to see another DM's take on this adventure. But you know what I never did? I never said "Hey, let's have our characters rest and heal up and then enter the dungeon again and kill all of the monsters for XP again and get all of the same loot again. And then, next game session, we can do it again and again and again. Until we all hit max level!!! What do you guys think?"

 

Could we have done that? Sure. We never did because that's not intended game play.

 

Intended game play is that you play the module/quest/mission, you read the story, you fight the monsters, and then you move on to another adventure. That's intended game play.

 

Farming is NOT intended game play.

 

And that's the difference. And all of you who are arguing "but we beat up bad guys, just like you do" are being disingenuous because you know that farming is not intended game play. It's possible because of a side effect of some missions being replayable, but it's not intended game play. That's why this game has hundreds of missions and not 12 missions. Because repeating the same missions over and over and over and over and over is not intended game play.

 

As further proof that farming is NOT intended game play let me remind you all that the devs recently removed the AE from the starter zones, Atlas Park and Mercy Island.

 

So, if you want to farm then farm. I don't care. But please stop with the "but farming is just beating up the bad guys too, hur dur hur duuuuuurp." Farming is not like intended game play. You know it isn't. I know it isn't. Please stop trying to insult my intelligence by making these ridiculous comparisons.

Hami raid every night...not intended game play. Running posi 1 and 2 on every new character. not intended game play. costume contests..not intended game play. dfb's...not intended game play. Defeating archon Carissa over and over and over in radios..not intended game play. nerf em all

 

another thing, we only played d&d once a week, so we dont need servers running the other 6 days.

Edited September 14, 2022 by ivanhedgehog

[Sanguinesun]

37 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I used to play Dungeons & Dragons when I was a young man. Have you ever played it? I still remember one of my favorite modules:

 

 

I have played through that module on more than one character. It was always interesting to see another DM's take on this adventure. But you know what I never did? I never said "Hey, let's have our characters rest and heal up and then enter the dungeon again and kill all of the monsters for XP again and get all of the same loot again. And then, next game session, we can do it again and again and again. Until we all hit max level!!! What do you guys think?"

 

Could we have done that? Sure. We never did because that's not intended game play.

 

Intended game play is that you play the module/quest/mission, you read the story, you fight the monsters, and then you move on to another adventure. That's intended game play.

 

Farming is NOT intended game play.

 

And that's the difference. And all of you who are arguing "but we beat up bad guys, just like you do" are being disingenuous because you know that farming is not intended game play. It's possible because of a side effect of some missions being replayable, but it's not intended game play. That's why this game has hundreds of missions and not 12 missions. Because repeating the same missions over and over and over and over and over is not intended game play.

 

As further proof that farming is NOT intended game play let me remind you all that the devs recently removed the AE from the starter zones, Atlas Park and Mercy Island.

 

So, if you want to farm then farm. I don't care. But please stop with the "but farming is just beating up the bad guys too, hur dur hur duuuuuurp." Farming is not like intended game play. You know it isn't. I know it isn't. Please stop trying to insult my intelligence by making these ridiculous comparisons.

White Plume Mountain was the first module I ever played.

 

First module I ever owned was I2: Tomb of the Lizard King.

 

That said, just like DnD, there is no such thing as "intended" every group I've played with over the last 4 decades in DnD played differently.  All were valid because it was what the groups enjoyed. Also even within the system, there was variation  like the Dragonlance modules(where groups I played with never used the preset characters from the back.... and then some did). If the groups had prescriptively been forced to play "as intended" by your seeming definition then, most of those groups would've stopped.  And many of the groups even just use only some of the materials, never used modules, or switched to using GURPS when they started realizing the actual "intent" by DnD was to sell books and roleplaying supplemental materials vs much else.  It is/was a business after all.

 

Farming is a valid form of playing CoH.  It has existed well before even AE existed.   Remember, sidekicking and exemplaring were implemented by the original devs.  They -intended- people to repeatedly play content.  

 

What is at issue is that you and segments of the player base(and HC dev team too mind you) simply dislike it either in some or all forms.  It galls such people that others can enjoy something they way they want to because its different from the way they believe it should be done/played. 

 

In DnD terms, a friend of mine coined a term for players that insist on how the game "should" played many years ago:  a college player.   Such essentially spends 75% of their play session against the DM or other players about rules and citing them from books while the rest of the group just sits there with nothing to do. Or most of the group is that way and they enjoy themselves while they can't even leave the first tavern for a play sessions of 2+ hours because of discussions about how folks "should" get drunk.  And then one or two in the group realize that's not the group for them and dont join the next session.

 

How they want to play is valid for them, how others want to play is also valid.  The schism comes when one group starts to dictate for another "their vision" when its not enjoyable for them. 

 

Essentially, if you don't care if others farm, you've no need to make a post attempting to invalidate such game play.   

 

[PeregrineFalcon]

10 minutes ago, ivanhedgehog said:

nerf em all

Did I ever say that at any point? Ever?

 

No? So you're just putting words in my mouth. You're just setting up a strawman argument. You're making up stuff that I never said. Let's be clear about this. You're responding to something that I never said, and intentionally missing the point of my post.

 

15 minutes ago, ivanhedgehog said:

another thing, we only played d&d once a week, so we dont need servers running the other 6 days.

True. Which is one reason why a lot of the content is repeatable.

 

However, since the devs have made clear that they don't support farming it makes no sense to expect them to take any actions to support farming. They clearly think that farming is too lucrative, which is why they keep nerfing bit by bit.

 

Repeating content in order to have something to do is clearly intended, which is why we have radio/newspaper missions and Ouroborus. That's a whole lot different that finding the most efficient way possible to repeat content in order to maximize rewards.

 

By the way, if farming is so much just like running normal content normally, then why not just run normal content normally? Because it's not. It's different. It's specifically done in the most efficient manner possible in order to maximize rewards. That's clearly different that just enjoying the content, reading the mission text and enjoying the cutscenes.

 

In short, I'm not saying that you shouldn't farm or that the devs should nerf farming. I'm simply saying that farming is different that running normal content normally. Any insistence that farming is the same as just playing the game is disingenuous at best, and flat out lying at worst.

[Coyotedancer]

*tabletop gamer fist-bump*

 

'Currently playing (and occasionally running) 13th Age, here. And White Plume Mountain was excellent fun. I've run that one at cons as a pick-up game a few times, since it's one of THE classic old-school dungeon-crawls. My intro to tabletop was "black box" Traveller, though, not fantasy. Which probably gives you an idea how old I am and how long I've been tossing around  dice. 👍

 

That said... I think there are enough differences between tabletop games and video games that comparing the "intended playstyles" and potential repeatability in each of the two is more like apples-and-oranges than peaches-and-apricots.  

 

 

 

Edited September 14, 2022 by Coyotedancer

[PeregrineFalcon]

10 minutes ago, Coyotedancer said:

That said... I think there are enough differences between tabletop games and video games that comparing the "intended playstyles" and potential repeatability in each of the two is more like apples-and-oranges than peaches-and-apricots.

Sure, and I already acknowledged that in my previous post. It was merely an example.

 

The problem that I have isn't with farming. I've already said that, multiple times. The problem that I have is with the farmers posting on the forums that farming is exactly the same as just playing content normally. This is clearly not true. If it were true then they wouldn't be so upset that the devs have nerfed farming a bit. But they insist on projecting their anger onto me so they claim that I'm "galled" by farming or that I want to "nerf em all", despite my having said multiple times "I don't care if people farm."

 

It's not farming that galls me, it's the intentional lying about my motivations. As if they were psychic and/or are unable to actually read what I write.

[Sanguinesun]

33 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

 

 

However, since the devs have made clear that they don't support farming it makes no sense to expect them to take any actions to support farming. They clearly think that farming is too lucrative, which is why they keep nerfing bit by bit.

 

 

Can you cite where devs have explicitly said they do not support farming?  I'm not saying what you're claiming (on this point) isn't factual. I'm just wanting to have a citable reference for that.

 

And while you're focusing on influence regarding farming and "too lucrative", remember too, not everyone farms for influence of course but it is important to point out market costs to outfit a player are at a point where most io set builds of merit are going to cost a lot and while people then say "play the market" they forget that that's just money shifted(with a small currency sink mind you) and not money generated.  Those then who are involved in farming for influence specifically are doing so treating a symptom due to being unable to treat the cause.    But again, this has been going on ever since side kicking and long before AE existed.  

 

Even if AE were removed, it would not remove the capabilities of farming nor the different types of farming.  Influence is just one of multiple farming reasons.   It would just shift it to different means.

 

20 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Sure, and I already acknowledged that in my previous post. It was merely an example.

 

The problem that I have isn't with farming. I've already said that, multiple times. The problem that I have is with the farmers posting on the forums that farming is exactly the same as just playing content normally. This is clearly not true. If it were true then they wouldn't be so upset that the devs have nerfed farming a bit. But they insist on projecting their anger onto me so they claim that I'm "galled" by farming or that I want to "nerf em all", despite my having said multiple times "I don't care if people farm."

 

It's not farming that galls me, it's the intentional lying about my motivations. As if they were psychic and/or are unable to actually read what I write.

 

You make claims that you do not have an issue with farming, yet you focus on the "intended" point over and over in seeking to invalidate farming.   You also say devs also do not support players farming in the game seemingly to further position farming poorly.   

 

So, it is seemingly a lot of effort with your statements in a direction to invalidate and pejoratively frame farming and the folks who enjoy doing so for someone who conversely says they don't care if others farm.  It is a rather interesting dichotomy.   

[The_Warpact]

In Search of the Unknown...my first. Let's you know how old I am. Back when they had hobby stores.

[DrunkFlux]

12 minutes ago, Sanguinesun said:

 

Can you cite where devs have explicitly said they do not support farming?  I'm not saying what you're claiming (on this point) isn't factual. I'm just wanting to have a citable reference for that.

 

And while you're focusing on influence regarding farming and "too lucrative", remember too, not everyone farms for influence of course but it is important to point out market costs to outfit a player are at a point where most io set builds of merit are going to cost a lot and while people then say "play the market" they forget that that's just money shifted(with a small currency sink mind you) and not money generated.  Those then who are involved in farming for influence specifically are doing so treating a symptom due to being unable to treat the cause.    But again, this has been going on ever since side kicking and long before AE existed.  

 

Even if AE were removed, it would not remove the capabilities of farming nor the different types of farming.  Influence is just one of multiple farming reasons.   It would just shift it to different means.

 

 

You make claims that you do not have an issue with farming, yet you focus on the "intended" point over and over in seeking to invalidate farming.   You also say devs also do not support players farming in the game seemingly to further position farming poorly.   

 

So, it is seemingly a lot of effort with your statements in a direction to invalidate and pejoratively frame farming and the folks who enjoy doing so for someone who conversely says they don't care if others farm.  It is a rather interesting dichotomy.   

 

One of the things i've noticed about farming AE is unlike on live, recipies DO drop in AE.  This actually helps stabilize the market.  On live, recipies did not drop, but influence was still being generated, and generated in massive bulk.  This resulted in the value of influence plummeting severely, to a point it was almost completely useless.

[PeregrineFalcon]

18 minutes ago, Sanguinesun said:

Can you cite where devs have explicitly said they do not support farming?

Probably, but I'm not interested in doing the research for you.

 

18 minutes ago, Sanguinesun said:

And while you're focusing on influence regarding farming and "too lucrative", remember too, not everyone farms for influence...

And I'm sure the devs know that too, which is why they recently nerfed the ability of people to turn Emp Merits into Reward Merits, but didn't nerf influence gains.

 

18 minutes ago, Sanguinesun said:

Even if AE were removed, it would not remove the capabilities of farming nor the different types of farming.

Yes, I am aware of this. At no point did I claim otherwise.

 

18 minutes ago, Sanguinesun said:

You make claims that you do not have an issue with farming, yet you focus on the "intended" point over and over in seeking to invalidate farming.

That's not quite what happened. What happened was someone responded to a post that I made pages back, and over a week ago, to disingenuously claim that farming is no different than normal game play. And I responded to that.

 

I'm not trying to invalidate farming, you just made that up.

 

The problem that I have, as I've said multiple times before, isn't with people farming. It's with people farming and then lying and claiming that it's no different than normal game play. It's clearly different than normal game play. It's done differently, for different reasons, often uses different builds, and the missions built for it are different than the normal story/lore based missions that non-farmers play.

[Power Extreme]

On 9/1/2022 at 2:09 PM, Faultline said:

We are aiming for Page 5 to be a lot smaller; there's only a few line items that are considered essential for release, and anything that doesn't make it in time will just get dropped. Feature creep is something that we are painfully aware that we are prone to, and are trying to avoid going forward.

 

That does mean that some things that were talked about "for the next page" may not be in Page 5 at all. They are being worked on, but if waiting for them to be ready risks delaying the page, we'll drop them and deal with the fallout.

If your going to do this then, Remove argo cap. what you have now it's doing anything to my farmer, make it harder, 16-32 mobs, 30-60 baddies per mob,, Or just open the flood gates in ae an let it rain down hell fire.

[Bionic_Flea]

2 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

However, since the devs have made clear that they don't support farming

 

While some of their game modifications can certainly give that impression, the devs have repeatedly stated they have no problem with farming and PLing . . . within limits.

 

42 minutes ago, Power Extreme said:

Remove argo cap

Edited September 14, 2022 by Bionic_Flea

[InvaderStych]

1 hour ago, The_Warpact said:

In Search of the Unknown...my first. Let's you know how old I am. Back when they had hobby stores.

 

Not just hobby stores.  Some places had dedicated game stores which ended up with very large tabletop RPG sections as the breadth of games grew larger in the 80s.

 

But yes, we never forget our first:

 

 

A friend and I were introduced to the game by his mother who was the DM for the first couple campaigns. Then he took over when we found a couple other kids to join.  This was probably around 1982, 83 at the latest.

[Sanguinesun]

5 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Probably, but I'm not interested in doing the research for you.

 

 

You made the claim. I was just simply asking you to cite it so that everyone has an accurate reference.  That would of course help your reference when backed by an official citation. Readers otherwise may consider it just to be assumptive/speculative.

 

7 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

 

Yes, I am aware of this. At no point did I claim otherwise.

 

 

But you were in a blanketed manner seeking to invalidate farming as a whole and hence why it was of merit to state.  It wasn't a case of claiming you were saying otherwise.  That's slightly a misdirection.

 

9 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

That's not quite what happened. What happened was someone responded to a post that I made pages back, and over a week ago, to disingenuously claim that farming is no different than normal game play. And I responded to that.

 

I'm not trying to invalidate farming, you just made that up.

 

 

I am referring to specifically your posts.  You made this dichotomy of claims:

 

1. That farming is not an intended form of play of the game.  (An invalidation of farming)

2. That devs do not support farming.  (An invalidation of farming)

3.  That (as I'll address below) farming is not "normal" game play.  (An invalidation of farming)

 

And then from all that effort over multiple posts now you still claim:

 

4. That you have no problem with people farming.   (The seeming contradiction that forms the dichotomous stance you're taking).

 

Its like someone saying, "I dont mean to be rude..." and then the next sentences out of their mouths are intentionally just that.

 

19 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

 The problem that I have, as I've said multiple times before, isn't with people farming. It's with people farming and then lying and claiming that it's no different than normal game play. It's clearly different than normal game play. It's done differently, for different reasons, often uses different builds, and the missions built for it are different than the normal story/lore based missions that non-farmers play.

 

 

Your stance of what should and should not be "normal" game play forms the basis of your contradiction.

 

Farming and the participation/enjoyment in such activities since the inception of the game, along with a multitude of other forms of play that don't follow your straight line are what's actually truly more normative.  The cognitively dissonant manner by which some players and devs (both past and present) view any farming pejoratively yet create, give incentives to participate in such both economically and socially, and then roar the terrible roars, gnash their terrible teeth, and show their terrible claws against in condemnation of such, are what really make for compelling evidence for being disingenuous. 

 

 

[roleki]

1 hour ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Sure, and I already acknowledged that in my previous post. It was merely an example.

 

The problem that I have isn't with farming. I've already said that, multiple times. The problem that I have is with the farmers posting on the forums that farming is exactly the same as just playing content normally. This is clearly not true. If it were true then they wouldn't be so upset that the devs have nerfed farming a bit. But they insist on projecting their anger onto me so they claim that I'm "galled" by farming or that I want to "nerf em all", despite my having said multiple times "I don't care if people farm."

 

It's not farming that galls me, it's the intentional lying about my motivations. As if they were psychic and/or are unable to actually read what I write.

 

Farming is gameplay.  Full stop.  Is the executable running in the foreground?  Am I interacting with it?  Then I'm playing the game. 

 

Whether I'm dawdling in the costume creator, standing around in a costume contest, role-playing in a sewer, triggering epilepsy in an MSR, running PI radios vs Council for 50 straight missions, doing DFB until my eyes bleed, hot-footing it between zones to get badges, PvPing in an arena, zone, or Wentworth's... I'm playing the game.

 

Basically, every activity a player can engage in while the executable is in the foreground and they are interacting with it, is playing the game.

 

Except farming?  

 

No. And to state otherwise is ridiculous; to claim I am 'lying' or being disingenuous is horseshit.  I am playing the game.

 

I don't come in here shitting on any other style of gameplay, and so far I haven't seen an avowed farmer do anything of the sort.  And aside from RP and the varuous formats of PvP, I've never seen anyone look sideways at any other style of gameplay.  

 

No.  That's only reserved for farming.  And why?  Out one side of their mouth, anti-farming folks will tell you it's because of inflation.  And out the other side, they'll tell you IOs are too cheap.  So which is it?

 

Hint:  it's neither of those.  It's the old "they got more than me" bullshit that most people have outgrown during their developmental stages, but is somehow construed as a valid concern in this game.  

 

And how does my having 'more' than this person or that person affect them?  Not one whit.  Market prices?  Stable.  Server population?  Damn near flat since the majority of COVID restrictions were lifted. 

 

Does farming flood the game with 50s who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground?  It might do exactly that, but there are plenty of sphincter-uncertain people waving the "ban farming" flag in these forums, you don't see me blaming Dr. Trevor Seaborn for it.

 

Just because you're on the treadmill of contact->mission->level->contact doesn't mean you're an idiot amused by shitty storytelling, or a simpleton what needs incremental rewards to remind yourself you're having a good time - just like my killing 33000 straight NPCs who happen to be wearing the same costume doesn't indicate that I'm an idiot amused by tedious tasks, or a simpleton what needs billions of inf to feel I've accomplished something.

 

I just happen to prefer 50s over 1s, 50s over 13s, 50s over 33s and even 50s over 49s, whereas some people seem to really enjoy the progression, like they have a surprise waiting at the end or something.  Farmers don't shit on that.

 

So why all the shitting on farming?  Why does it even appear on your radar?  I'm way the hell over here, doing THIS, you're way the hell over there, doing THAT.  And now that AE has (rightly) been removed from the loading zones, we may never cross paths in-game, aside from maybe when you buy stuff off me at the market.  I apologize for the convenience.  

 

And for the record, I never said that "content was equal to farming" I merely presented a visual aid to combat the notion that farming wasn't playing the game, when it absolutely IS playing the game in every possible sense of the word.  I can't launch excel.exe and minutes later have a bunch of inf in CoH.  I can't level up a Defender playing Rocket League.  To get inf in CoH and level up a Defender, I have to launch CoH and use the varuous inputs and .dlls and whatnot associated with that executable and that executable only.  I'm playing the game.

 

And if I'm coming off a little heated, it's because I rather don't appreciate being accused of "being disingenuous at best, and lying at worst" when the entire girth of the accusation is based on a willful misinterpretation of what I actually said.

 

To be honest, it was awesome to find CoH again, and it was great for a while there, but coincidental to players whining to the devs about farming and the devs diligently chipping away at it ever since, the whole spirit of the game and the community had changed, and not for the better.  You never saw threads like this back then.  Now it's all you see.  Well this, and forced attempts at NOT this.

 

Progress!

[Bill Z Bubba]

On 9/11/2022 at 11:45 PM, Saikochoro said:

The devs also discourage negative feedback from threads telling people to stop discussing a change and that stating you don’t like the change is not feedback.

 

Never forget....

 

[ivanhedgehog]

2 hours ago, Krimson said:

When they had? I live in Calgary. We have the largest game store on the Continent.

 

https://www.sentrybox.com/

and you have the best hockey team in Canada.