Sins of the Devs are visited upon the players

[Tachstar]

On 8/30/2022 at 1:28 PM, EmperorSteele said:

 

So, which server IS the best server then?

 

 

Protector! No! Inf-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

[srmalloy]

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

How does W suggest forward movement?

It goes back 20 years to Dennis 'Thresh' Fong and his standard configuration for Quake, winning the first Quake tournament. When he converted to using the mouse for mouselook, he needed controls for his left hand, and settled on WASD. Read How WASD Became the Standard PC Control Scheme -- there were other patterns on the left side of the keyboard, but Thresh's celebrity had people asking for his configuration, spreading it around.

[Neiska]

3 hours ago, arcane said:

Lol the Dark Souls comparisons are so cringe.

 

Go try a 4 star hardmode on a Mastermind, and you might understand why it feels that way to some.

Edited August 31, 2022 by Neiska

[blue4333]

I think of COH/Homecoming as a retirement game. You come here once in a while, try things out, taste the nostalgia and enjoy the thrill of being a superhero.

 

If I wanted a game that reinvents the wheel or a game where I have to tryhard because people find it "too easy", I'd go play a competitive MOBA or an MMO with Raids/Dungeons progressions. Not sure what people have to prove by coming up with ways that penalize and/or make the game harder for casuals.

 

Should you even care that much that a player has more ATOs/ Winter IOs or Incarnate Powers or Emp Merits than you? It's only your own ego that you need soothing, there's no leaderboard or typical MMO-progression in COH/Homecoming.

[Ruin Mage]

Everyone has different views, and obviously HC has a very different take. Which is to be expected. They don't want this to be Idle Mobile Game #66545 in levels of easy. That they've started to toy with things and making ALL attack types matter (rather than being able to snore through the game on an S/L/E softcapped blaster) isn't a huge brick to the game, but I also am someone who laughs at my own deaths. 

I don't think there's anything to prove, it's just that their intent - to me - is to not remain Locked to the way the game was at shutdown. None of the servers out there are doing that. I don't think there's really re-inventing the wheel, but maybe I'm missing something. Optional hard mode content that rewards bonuses for completing it seems fairly standard - although there's no real Power Progression from it. Which is intended given power hardcaps at a fully IOed T4'ed build. Instead the progression becomes ooh cool shiny that is for collectors and/or roleplayers.

You're right there's no real typical progression or leaderboards. However, giving people something to chase isn't bad no? That's how I see stuff like the Hard Modes - an optional piece of content for those who want to step up to challenge the content. It's not affecting any real content out there pre-HC outside of a bug or two that was caught and fixed before P4 Launched.

 

[Aracknight]

Wtf did i just read.

[Luminara]

4 minutes ago, Aracknight said:

Wtf did i just read.

 

A series of alphanumeric characters arranged in groups which are placed sequentially in order to convey articulated thought?

Unless it was Welsh, in which case it was a series of alphanumeric characters arranged in groups which were placed sequentially to drive readers insane.  BUY A VOWEL, WALES!

[Aracknight]

I'm not convinced of the "articulated" part.

Edited August 31, 2022 by Aracknight

[PeregrineFalcon]

2 hours ago, ivanhedgehog said:

one issue here. the gms enforced the "focused feedback" they only wanted to know, does it work? there was no discussion on whether we wanted or needed the changes in the first place. there was zero discussion, transparency, or the promised dev diaries. So there is room for people to ask WTF?

Not entirely disagreeing with you here, but that's not exactly what I've seen.

 

What I've seen, with the last 3 pages, was GMs allowing posts in the focused feedback threads that were happy with the changes. It was mostly posts critical of the changes that were hidden/deleted.

 

As I said, several pages ago, once the Homecoming devs decide to do something it gets done. Sometimes they'll tweak it a little one way or the other, but it gets done. So they ask for feedback but then they ignore it when it doesn't go the way they want it to go. And sometimes I get the impression that the more vehemently people on the forums are against it the more the devs dig in and are determined to make the change just to spite the most insulting forum posters.

 

And, to be fair, sometimes you have to ignore negative feedback when you're in a position of authority, which the developers are in relation to this game. That fact isn't going to stop me from complaining when the devs ignore that feedback though. After all, what's the point behind having feedback threads if we're only allowed to give positive feedback?

[Ruin Mage]

There's feedback and then there's "it's a shit change i'm going elsewhere" non-testers throwing a fit. We had a lot of that with Attack Type changes this Page.

I'd say that it's more likely to get a change to be modified/better'd than to outright get it walked back. People just need to test it, offer constructive criticism, and learn to accept that our voice is not 100% guiding the direction of the server and never will.

[Number Six]

22 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

What I've seen, with the last 3 pages, was GMs allowing posts in the focused feedback threads that were happy with the changes. It was mostly posts critical of the changes that were hidden/deleted.

 

GMs probably should hide the "yay I love this!" posts also that don't add any additional value to the thread. Some of it is a judgement call and humans don't always get everything perfect.

 

Important to node that while GMs hide posts to keep the discussion on-track and keep players from descending into fighting with each other, admins and the dev team (at least the department leads) can still see everything and we do read as much of the feedback as we can, including the deleted posts.

 

Especially the deleted posts.

[Number Six]

Heck I even read & shared with the team a long 10-paragraph screed about the AE adjustments that somebody typed into the crash reporter comments. Almost didn't see it because it was auto-flagged and closed by the system as a duplicate but it was related to an issue I was tracking down and just happened to be looking at the duplicates to gather more info.

 

So, uh, PSA -- thanks for the crash report but don't do that. Definitely not the best place to send feedback if you want it to be seen.

[ivanhedgehog]

3 minutes ago, Shadeknight said:

There's feedback and then there's "it's a shit change i'm going elsewhere" non-testers throwing a fit. We had a lot of that with Attack Type changes this Page.

I'd say that it's more likely to get a change to be modified/better'd than to outright get it walked back. People just need to test it, offer constructive criticism, and learn to accept that our voice is not 100% guiding the direction of the server and never will.

There can be no constructive criticism when the change is decided and programmed before anyone outside the core group even knows that anything is happening. saying its a shit change is in its own way criticism. Of course there are much better ways of saying it, no question about that. If I tell you I am cooking lima bean casserole for dinner, does it have enough salt? telling me you hate lima beans is a valid comment. We dont know if everything nice from now on will be locked behind hard modes, kind of like wow and mythic plus.

[melancholicmoods]

10 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

 

if you "Buy It Nao" the prices will always be higher, they can easily be had for well under 50,000, see below. they were a few thousand before i bought a bunch (can't remember why i wanted them at the time)                                  

 

 

i logged on real quick onto my dom and killed a mob of cimerorans and added up how much inf i received;

 

41,713 (7 minions)
82,016 (4 luts)
256,324 (3 bosses)

total (without any drops) 380,053

 

a single mob provides almost enough inf to craft one Makos Bite, killing another two would provide enough inf to purchase the recipe, the rare salvage and all the remaining salvage. this mob had a higher than average amount of bosses, so lets say it takes 5 mobs per IO, even without any recipe or rare salvage drops

 

this means every 20-30 mobs killed, a full set of a great IO like Mako's Bite can be had - about the same as two missions

 

I'd already acknowledged the average price and the difference in cost if you wanted to try to grab it right away. Even then, you are using your ability to quickly defeat mobs solo against a group that has multiple bosses for your example. In a group you'd make far less influence per group and would get less drops. So you either need to solo or be in a good fast moving group to make influence that quickly. You didn't mention what your AT or build was but most average players can't do that unless they are very specific AT's and already well slotted and can therefore either afford the IOs on their own or feed influence to their alts.

 

Most IOs aren't level set to have you wait until you are level 50 before buying them, they are meant to be able to be purchased. Yes if you are a melee fighter it's much easier, and good players could do this fairly quickly even at lower levels but support ATs don't have that ability and you can't have prices balanced for only those ATs and players that are the fastest at defeating mobs. Try gaining enough influence quickly as a solo controller at level 20 to buy IOs. Maybe you are newish to the game and don't remember the days of suffering through using DOs until well into your 30s because you can barely afford SOs for your most important powers. I'd trade affordable IOs over that scenario any day.

[roleki]

5 minutes ago, Shadeknight said:

There's feedback and then there's "it's a shit change i'm going elsewhere" non-testers throwing a fit. We had a lot of that with Attack Type changes this Page.

I'd say that it's more likely to get a change to be modified/better'd than to outright get it walked back. People just need to test it, offer constructive criticism, and learn to accept that our voice is not 100% guiding the direction of the server and never will.

 

That's all well and good, but some changes there's really not anything to test, other than to say "Yup, I sure make less while farming now!" or "Gawsh, I can't convert Emps to Merits anymore!" which may be music to the devs ears but that isn't "feedback" in the traditional sense. 

 

What were we supposed to say?  Certainly not anything like "This change will have no impact whatsoever on the people who demanded it but will likely cause the people it DOES affect to lose some enthusiasm for the game at a time when interest is already waning." because that's just going to be read as "It's a shit change, I'm going elsewhere!" even though that's not exactly what was said.

[PeregrineFalcon]

5 minutes ago, Number Six said:

GMs probably should hide the "yay I love this!" posts also that don't add any additional value to the thread. Some of it is a judgement call and humans don't always get everything perfect.

Agreed, but that's not what happens. What happens is that negative posts get hidden and that positive ones do not, and it really gives the impression that dissent is not allowed and that The Council does not want to hear anything that does not agree with the changes they are making.

 

I also agree that people should test changes before they object to them, I've even said as much in the feedback threads.

 

And look, I've already said that sometimes you have to ignore negative feedback. A part of my post that no one seems to have noticed. But the fact is that people are getting banned for negative feedback, but no one is getting banned for saying "I love these changes! I love the devs!" Both types of posts derail the thread, but only 1 of those types of posts are being erroneously classified as "abusive behavior", and resulting in forum suspension/bans.

[MoonSheep]

2 minutes ago, melancholicmoods said:

 

I'd already acknowledged the average price and the difference in cost if you wanted to try to grab it right away. Even then, you are using your ability to quickly defeat mobs solo against a group that has multiple bosses for your example. In a group you'd make far less influence per group and would get less drops. So you either need to solo or be in a good fast moving group to make influence that quickly. You didn't mention what your AT or build was but most average players can't do that unless they are very specific AT's and already well slotted and can therefore either afford the IOs on their own or feed influence to their alts.

 

Most IOs aren't level set to have you wait until you are level 50 before buying them, they are meant to be able to be purchased. Yes if you are a melee fighter it's much easier, and good players could do this fairly quickly even at lower levels but support ATs don't have that ability and you can't have prices balanced for only those ATs and players that are the fastest at defeating mobs. Try gaining enough influence quickly as a solo controller at level 20 to buy IOs. Maybe you are newish to the game and don't remember the days of suffering through using DOs until well into your 30s because you can barely afford SOs for your most important powers. I'd trade affordable IOs over that scenario any day.

 

the test was run on a dominator with a build that provides 0% defense or resistance, not a high powered solo melee AT. the inf gain from a team running a small TF or a few missions would be much faster - especially when taking into consideration recipe/salvage drops

 

it shows how easily influence and IO sets can be achieved in-game, a full set earned in a matter of minutes through very minor casual play

 

 

[Luminara]

11 minutes ago, Number Six said:

Heck I even read & shared with the team a long 10-paragraph screed about the AE adjustments that somebody typed into the crash reporter comments. Almost didn't see it because it was auto-flagged and closed by the system as a duplicate but it was related to an issue I was tracking down and just happened to be looking at the duplicates to gather more info.

 

So, uh, PSA -- thanks for the crash report but don't do that. Definitely not the best place to send feedback if you want it to be seen.

 

[Black Zot]

11 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Agreed, but that's not what happens. What happens is that negative posts get hidden and that positive ones do not, and it really gives the impression that dissent is not allowed and that The Council does not want to hear anything that does not agree with the changes they are making.

 

I also agree that people should test changes before they object to them, I've even said as much in the feedback threads.

 

And look, I've already said that sometimes you have to ignore negative feedback. A part of my post that no one seems to have noticed. But the fact is that people are getting banned for negative feedback, but no one is getting banned for saying "I love these changes! I love the devs!" Both types of posts derail the thread, but only 1 of those types of posts are being erroneously classified as "abusive behavior", and resulting in forum suspension/bans.

 

In the forums, as in real life, no action ever gets taken against the one punching down.

[Ruin Mage]

19 minutes ago, roleki said:

That's all well and good, but some changes there's really not anything to test, other than to say "Yup, I sure make less while farming now!" or "Gawsh, I can't convert Emps to Merits anymore!" which may be music to the devs ears but that isn't "feedback" in the traditional sense. 

Those particular changes? I can't exactly say what you're supposed to say. I should have specified in my post about that - whoops.

My comment was geared towards the ones that need actual testing for valid feedback, not the one that could be commented on without any testing.

[Xiddo]

Ultimately we’re - mostly - all grown adults playing a very old game where we dress up as super-people and fight baddies/goodies [delete as appropriate]. We could probably afford to chill out a bit and just try to have fun.

[Luminara]

10 minutes ago, Xiddo said:

Ultimately we’re - mostly - all grown adults playing a very old game where we dress up as super-people and fight baddies/goodies [delete as appropriate].

 

We're supposed to be in clothes?

 

Huh.  Interesting.

[The_Warpact]

5 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

We're supposed to be in clothes?

 

Huh.  Interesting.

Meow, baby!

[Bill Z Bubba]

12 minutes ago, The_Warpact said:

Meow, baby!

 

Pants are for the weak.

[lepidopter]

6 hours ago, Oubliette_Red said:

I disagree with @The_Warpact with regards to Going Rogue, side-switching was a way for players to continue their characters stories. CoH after all is an RPG where I've seen a lot more players dedicate their play style to 'RP' more than any other MMORPG I've played.

 

Forgot to mention it, but I feel the same way.  I understand the ability to switch sides causes issues but I really value it and think it adds a lot of richness to the game.  My main character started as a hero, is a vigilante currently, and it's looking inevitable he will become a villain in the eyes of authority.  The only reason he's not in the Zig right now is a lot of cops privately agree with what he's doing, and the rest are afraid of him.  He's a kidnapper, arsonist, and likely a serial killer.  All of this has played out by way of missions that are in the game.

 

Without side-switching, this whole thing would be relegated to a few lines in a character bio, and I'd have to start the story either from the Zig or after escape to the Rogue Isles.  Come to think of it, the character concept works best as a brute or stalker, so I needed the ATs to cross-pollinate also, in order to tell the story how I wanted.  Otherwise I could be a vigilante scrapper who stays in Paragon, or a stalker who starts at level 1 in the Zig, and in both cases I'd be losing something important (to me) compared to what I have now.