Thoughts on a kill most(ly) Aeon SF

[KaizenSoze]

Since, it's the WST and I was tired of speed Aeons. I organized a 4x8 kill most zero stars, except we sped the ripples, Aeon SF.

 

Took about 15 mins to recruit. I think we had all 50+ players. Completion time was 1:36.

 

It was fun, nice to work through the SF. Instead of speeding or grinding out a hard mode run. Even in hard mode there is a lot of mob skipping.

 

I didn't track carefully, but it was great, inf, and drops. Still plenty of deaths, much more than you get on an ITF with all 50+s. We were being aggressive, multiple spawn pulls, which added to the death count.

 

I was hoping for an alternative to kill most ITFs, but the time length is a issue. I hate to see all that good dev work to underutilized, because folks either speed or the small percentage that grind out the hard mode.

 

Maybe add some extra experience, drop rate... something to entice players to run the SF outside the extremes.

[Astralock]

I really enjoy the Dr. Aeon SF, but honestly it should have been cut into two parts like the Positron TF.  Part One being missions one through four, Part Two being missions five through seven.  I would like to do it more often, but most people I know won’t commit to the time.

[Ukase]

4 minutes ago, Astralock said:

I really enjoy the Dr. Aeon SF, but honestly it should have been cut into two parts like the Positron TF.  Part One being missions one through four, Part Two being missions five through seven.  I would like to do it more often, but most people I know won’t commit to the time.

I completely agree with this. 
Time is precious. Big blocks of time for an in-game experience are hard to come by for most folks with responsibilities. And when I say big blocks, I refer to anything over an hour. 

[Astralock]

14 minutes ago, Ukase said:

I completely agree with this. 
Time is precious. Big blocks of time for an in-game experience are hard to come by for most folks with responsibilities. And when I say big blocks, I refer to anything over an hour. 

Yeah.  Personally, I have found some TFs and SFs (like Penelope Yin, Apex, and Tin Mage), too short to be really enjoyable.  Some length is good, but getting people to set aside more than a hour for anything these days is very difficult.  I much prefer kill most/steamroll over speed, but when it comes to the Dr. Aeon SF, getting people to do anything other than speed is rare, if I can get them to do it at all.

Edited September 8, 2022 by Astralock

[ivanhedgehog]

34 minutes ago, KaizenSoze said:

Since, it's the WST and I was tired of speed Aeons. I organized a 4x8 kill most zero stars, except we sped the ripples, Aeon SF.

 

Took about 15 mins to recruit. I think we had all 50+ players. Completion time was 1:36.

 

It was fun, nice to work through the SF. Instead of speeding or grinding out a hard mode run. Even in hard mode there is a lot of mob skipping.

 

I didn't track carefully, but it was great, inf, and drops. Still plenty of deaths, much more than you get on an ITF with all 50+s. We were being aggressive, multiple spawn pulls, which added to the death count.

 

I was hoping for an alternative to kill most ITFs, but the time length is a issue. I hate to see all that good dev work to underutilized, because folks either speed or the small percentage that grind out the hard mode.

 

Maybe add some extra experience, drop rate... something to entice players to run the SF outside the extremes.

you arent going to see many non 50's in wst runs anymore. prismatics only drop for 50's so you pl your characters to 50 and go back and do the tfs to get the rewards. losing out on prismatics is too big a loss.

[KaizenSoze]

9 minutes ago, ivanhedgehog said:

you arent going to see many non 50's in wst runs anymore. prismatics only drop for 50's so you pl your characters to 50 and go back and do the tfs to get the rewards. losing out on prismatics is too big a loss.

I'll check everyone once in awhile to see how many I have, but I don't focus on them.

 

For me always, the combat is the best part of the game.

[Zhym]

It's kind of a shame you sped through the ripples, because there's some really fun stuff in there.

 

My biggest complaint about the Aeon SF is that there's not really a solo mode.  It's so chock full of fun writing and Easter eggs that it really rewards being able to slow down and poke at the corners.  But of course most groups want to zoom through it as quickly as possible to get to the rewards.  Which is fine!  I wouldn't want to make seven other people wait on me while I read all the text.  But it would be nice if it were possible to do in a "solo mode" where I could read all the text but not, say, get my ass kicked by Apex.

 

Along similar lines: one of these days I'm going to organize a kill all MLTF.  I've never seen one, and I'm curious how long it would take and if there's any appeal over the standard speed run.

[KaizenSoze]

20 minutes ago, Zhym said:

It's kind of a shame you sped through the ripples, because there's some really fun stuff in there.

 

My biggest complaint about the Aeon SF is that there's not really a solo mode.  It's so chock full of fun writing and Easter eggs that it really rewards being able to slow down and poke at the corners.  But of course most groups want to zoom through it as quickly as possible to get to the rewards.  Which is fine!  I wouldn't want to make seven other people wait on me while I read all the text.  But it would be nice if it were possible to do in a "solo mode" where I could read all the text but not, say, get my ass kicked by Apex.

 

Along similar lines: one of these days I'm going to organize a kill all MLTF.  I've never seen one, and I'm curious how long it would take and if there's any appeal over the standard speed run.

There is a lot of cool stuff in the ripples, but that was probably an additional 30 mins. Also, we just did the glowies in the open maps. Probably saved 20 mins plus.

 

I think a full kill most ASF would take 2:30.

 

I did do a kill most MLTF, with a little skipping on the open maps. Took 1:15ish, been awhile.

[Ukase]

8 hours ago, ivanhedgehog said:

you arent going to see many non 50's in wst runs anymore. prismatics only drop for 50's so you pl your characters to 50 and go back and do the tfs to get the rewards. losing out on prismatics is too big a loss.

I dunno. Yeah, I was a bit surprised, when I'd run a Morty Kal when it was the weekly, and a lower level teammate didn't get the prismatic. They can drop randomly after the completion of a mission for a sub-50, so it really doesn't make any sense at all to me that sub-50's don't get them. 

That said, now that they're just 24M compared to the 175M they were going for after the patch hit, I can make that much in a couple of minutes on the AH. So, why run it for a couple of prismatics? The only time I run a weekly now is to support specific officers in the SG and when I need a notice. I'd like to run them with my lowbies, but if I run it on level 40 on a Wednesday, it disqualifies my character from getting a notice until the coming Monday. (as I'm likely to ding 50 before the week is over) 

That's why I almost never run a weekly on a lowbie. Nothing to do with a prismatic. 

[TygerDarkstorm]

11 hours ago, ivanhedgehog said:

you arent going to see many non 50's in wst runs anymore. prismatics only drop for 50's so you pl your characters to 50 and go back and do the tfs to get the rewards. losing out on prismatics is too big a loss.

This is not true. My level 30 stalker got an aether drop from one of the Moonfire missions tonight.

[Bionic_Flea]

It's partially true.  While a character can get a single Aether to drop randomly upon mission completion at any level, finishing the WSF awards 1 or 2 guaranteed Aethers but only if the character is level 50. 

 

I agree with Ukase that it makes little sense to me that the WSF only awards Aether to level 50s.  Although the main source of them is I-trials and hardmode level 50 content they otherwise are not tied to incarnates.  They provide no additional powers, just cosmetic stuff that can be used by any character at any level.  In my opinion, the WSF should award Aethers to all who complete it, not just 50s.

[Grouchybeast]

2 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

I agree with Ukase that it makes little sense to me that the WSF only awards Aether to level 50s.  Although the main source of them is I-trials and hardmode level 50 content they otherwise are not tied to incarnates.  They provide no additional powers, just cosmetic stuff that can be used by any character at any level.  In my opinion, the WSF should award Aethers to all who complete it, not just 50s.

 

I suspect that it might well be adjusted to do exactly that, once the devs have a handle on the market price for Aethers.  It's a lot easier for them to start with a lower drop rate and gradually increase it to hit the price they have in mind than to start with too high a drop rate and have to nerf it later.

[TygerDarkstorm]

6 hours ago, Bionic_Flea said:

It's partially true.  While a character can get a single Aether to drop randomly upon mission completion at any level, finishing the WSF awards 1 or 2 guaranteed Aethers but only if the character is level 50. 

 

I agree with Ukase that it makes little sense to me that the WSF only awards Aether to level 50s.  Although the main source of them is I-trials and hardmode level 50 content they otherwise are not tied to incarnates.  They provide no additional powers, just cosmetic stuff that can be used by any character at any level.  In my opinion, the WSF should award Aethers to all who complete it, not just 50s.

Ah, I see, I skipped over the WST part. >_< Sorry about that folks. 

[ivanhedgehog]

On 9/9/2022 at 4:20 AM, Grouchybeast said:

 

I suspect that it might well be adjusted to do exactly that, once the devs have a handle on the market price for Aethers.  It's a lot easier for them to start with a lower drop rate and gradually increase it to hit the price they have in mind than to start with too high a drop rate and have to nerf it later.

Of course by that time the people running weekly 4 star hm runs will have sucked up huge bank balances. HM runs are the absolute top money makers in the game.

[Grouchybeast]

10 hours ago, ivanhedgehog said:

Of course by that time the people running weekly 4 star hm runs will have sucked up huge bank balances. HM runs are the absolute top money makers in the game.

 

I guess it's working as intended as an incentive, then.

[ivanhedgehog]

2 hours ago, Grouchybeast said:

 

I guess it's working as intended as an incentive, then.

so screwing up the economy is no longer a valid problem. city of HM accomplished

[Grouchybeast]

3 minutes ago, ivanhedgehog said:

so screwing up the economy is no longer a valid problem. city of HM accomplished

 

I don't think the 10% inf sink per sale on the AH is going to have that much of an effect, although it is a nice bonus, I guess.

[ivanhedgehog]

1 hour ago, Grouchybeast said:

 

I don't think the 10% inf sink per sale on the AH is going to have that much of an effect, although it is a nice bonus, I guess.

No but piling huge amounts of inf on one playstyle is a problem. Or at least it was when farming was being targeted. They didnt want farming to be the one stop shop for rewards, so they made a much better way of getting rewards. They didnt want people to feel like they had to farm, but they do want people to feel that they have to HM.

[EmperorSteele]

I agree with the OP. There's a LOT of lore and fun Easter eggs going on here, and I had felt like it should have been a story arc instead of an SF. Especially given the length of it all.

 

Still, I recall Cobalt saying something about how the devs were considering a "solo" mode for TFs, so something like that would be ideal for what OP wants.

[Ukase]

I know not everyone has the resources to do this, and I don't pretend it can be done on every AT, but when I needed a few of the badges that Aeon had when it came out - the cryogenetiwhatevers, and the lycanthrope or whatever that's called, I put my two accounts together, one tank, one blaster and used lores, summons, etc to get past the AVs. 

I didn't finish it, because I only did it for the badges, but I would suspect with enough trips to p2w in pocket D, it would have taken a while, but it could be done. 

Do I think it would be more efficient to find a couple of like-minded folks who want to take the time and read? Absolutely. But in a pinch, p2w is useful in that regard. 

[Neiska]

5 hours ago, Grouchybeast said:

I guess it's working as intended as an incentive, then.

 

While I respect your opinion, I would like to point out that the change has pushed out people from teaming as well. From the "only X classes/powersets" to some endgame content getting a bit toxic/plain unpleasant to be a part of. Only remarking that in some circles, it hasn't closed the gap, fostered balance, or encouraged people to play together, it's done the exact opposite. I wouldn't call that a success.

 

And no I am not calling for a nerf, or for them to remove things. Only shining a light on the fact that it isn't all sunshine and roses as insinuated in some places.

[BurtHutt]

On 9/8/2022 at 10:25 AM, Astralock said:

I really enjoy the Dr. Aeon SF, but honestly it should have been cut into two parts like the Positron TF.  Part One being missions one through four, Part Two being missions five through seven.  I would like to do it more often, but most people I know won’t commit to the time.

I think this would be nice. I am not sure why it was made so long but it's more than obvious players prefer a bit shorter TFs. You see more KM Yin, ITF than the longer drawn out TF/SF. Also, Devs need to stop putting in so much text - it's impossible to read it all (and I don't think you can read it all if you're not team lead?).

 

I haven't run the ASF much. I find it too long and I have no idea what's going on. It's just too much. I know a lot of players have gone and read the material elsewhere or teams have slowed right down to get all the info. That hasn't happened on any of the teams I ran and most teams aren't going to wait around anymore. I have similar concerns over that recent Freaks arc as well that the HC team put out there (which also includes some zone hopping?!). It seems the HC team kinda ignored the lessons learned by the previous Devs: players didn't enjoy long, drawn out TFs and running around zones.

 

Anyway, I think I did the KM ASF once and it was ok...I guess...it did allow me time to read some of the text etc. Overall, I appreciate the effort and work done by the Devs. However, this isn't for me and I haven't run it much for these reasons. 

[Greycat]

20 minutes ago, BurtHutt said:

it's impossible to read it all (and I don't think you can read it all if you're not team lead?).

 

Click the red "i" on the nav bar next to the mission name.

[Cobalt Arachne]

About the Dr. Aeon's Strike Force's length...
There are two main reasons for that, one more simple and one more complex:

 

First: The simpler, is that story in the Dr. Aeon's Strike Force was not written as a two-parter narrative and was meant to be a lore dense piece of content, but that should be expected for content that is the capstone finale of an existing story.
The strike force was always meant to be the finale moment to the original Gold Bricker's story in Cap Au Diable, which never got a proper conclusion and the players never got to tango with big bad King Midas himself, despite numerous arcs about him and involving him.

As a result, this means that for full enjoyment of the Dr. Aeon SF's story, it is best to have played all the Cap Au Diable mission arcs about/involving the Gold Brickers and have some familiarity with those stories since it obviously plays a big role in whether you can follow along and understand what is happening during Aeon's wacky inter-dimensional romp to settle the score.

---

Second: The more complex, is that in City of Heroes there's always been a stigma that 'long content = bad content', and while older player availability as adults may be a factor certainly, that's a bit heavy-handed as the only reason when people use it with so much objectivity.

I don't necessarily see longer content as an objectively bad thing; It allows for more build-up and anticipation on the way to the finale showdown with the mastermind, it often lets the player feel like they're part of something more epic, and let's us really flesh out the characters, locations, and story.

Penny Yin's TF typically being a 15-30 minute romp makes me feel like I'm on a chore during lunch, not thwarting a major scheme of a villainous organization bent on my city's destruction; That is obviously a very subjective take, and I've run and enjoyed my fair share of Penny Yin's, but it was never the type of experience the Dr. Aeon's SF was aimed to be.

 

Dr. Aeon's Strike Force was designed from the beginning to be a longer, more elaborate piece of content. Variety is the spice of life, and players already had lots of shorter content choices already. If a player wanted to pick a piece of longer content, they generally had to look at the oldest team content in the catalogue which is infamous for obvious reasons...
(Looking at you, Dr. Quarterfield!)

---

The real question is how & why bad longer content is actually bad:
Older long content that has coined this infamy mostly achieved its length with frustrating/slow mission objectives:
Lots of 'kill all' missions, 'glowie needle in a haystack' missions, 'rescue & escort' missions.
I believe the real reason people don't play the older longer content as often is because the objectives can be very dull, they can't really be streamlined much, and they often contain copious amounts of padding to make the content bulkier when it doesn't make it any more interesting.

All of those things mentioned are completely absent in the Dr. Aeon's SF, which is longer content by virtue of it's content richness, variety, and scope. With many considerations also taken to allow the team play the content to speed it up or slow it down as they desire, it is a very flexible piece of content, with speed PUG teams finishing it regularly in 30 minutes, and other teams taking longer by their choice, not by force, which I believe is the key difference.

[Vanden]

6 minutes ago, Cobalt Arachne said:

First: The simpler, is that story in the Dr. Aeon's Strike Force was not written as a two-parter narrative and was meant to be a lore dense piece of content, but that should be expected for content that is the capstone finale of an existing story.

 

Well, despite this, I still think a split wouldn't be so awful. The first 3 missions of the SF would work fine as a standalone story arc for solo players, narratively speaking. Some of the fights would have to be toned down, that's true, but otherwise I think it's a good splitting point. In the first 3 missions, there's no crazy AV fights, no Master badge challenges (just the first half of Best Friends Forever), and the whole narrative is just building up to the actual meat of the SF. The fourth mission marks the point where Aeon gets serious, so it also makes sense as the point where he forms a for-real Strike Force to handle this serious matter.