Christ, what'd they do to the Crystal Titan?

[Vanden]

Autohit Footstomp that hits for over 1000 damage with Ambrosia running, and knocks back through Tanker mez protection? Another cone attack, also autohit, that also hits for over 1000 damage with Ambrosia? Did anyone playtest this? The only possible way for my Tanker to not get obliterated against this thing now is for an Empath to hit me with Adrenalin Boost and put Heal Other on Auto. Really makes for an awful specific setup needed to earn Master. I know they want it to be challenging, but melee characters stand basically no chance of contributing to this fight without a pocket healer, and are a complete liability on Master attempts.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Vanden

[MoonSheep]

sounds proportionate given that it’s a challenge trial

[Veracor]

The Crystal Titan will not use its Foot Stomp if its current target is out of reach.  It will only do its cone attack, Prism Blast, at you.  You can taunt it from up high and everyone else can safely nibble its ankles to death, assuming nobody nibbling its ankles is also taunting.  You should only need 1-2 Ambrosia and all other inspirations can be oranges and greens.

 

Hope this helps!

[Black Zot]

3 hours ago, Veracor said:

The Crystal Titan will not use its Foot Stomp if its current target is out of reach.  It will only do its cone attack, Prism Blast, at you.  You can taunt it from up high and everyone else can safely nibble its ankles to death, assuming nobody nibbling its ankles is also taunting. 

 

That's not what I've seen.  Everyone was airborne including the taunter, I landed my controller just long enough to drop an acid mortar - IMMEDIATE Foot Stomp.  Dead in one shot, right through Ambrosia.

 

I am never running that bullshit again.

[Glacier Peak]

1 hour ago, Black Zot said:

That's not what I've seen.  Everyone was airborne including the taunter, I landed my controller just long enough to drop an acid mortar - IMMEDIATE Foot Stomp.  Dead in one shot, right through Ambrosia.

 

I am never running that bullshit again.

That's not what I've seen. It's a classic trial that's easily soloable too. Just follow Veracor's advice and you'll be fine. 

[Black Zot]

30 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

 It's a classic trial 

 

Irrelevant.  There's no point in even giving the PC an HP bar if you're going to circumvent it with oneshot mechanics.  Even HAMIDON doesn't instagib people.

 

I'm not dealing with that shit.  Period.  I don't care what excuses you offer, it's a bullshit mechanic that should not exist in any game and I will not run that trial ever again.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Black Zot

[Glacier Peak]

2 minutes ago, Black Zot said:

 

Irrelevant.  There's no point in even giving the PC an HP bar if you're going to circumvent it with oneshot mechanics.  Even HAMIDON doesn't instagib people.

 

I'm not dealing with that shit.  Period.  I don't care what excuses you offer, it's a bullshit mechanic that should not exist in any game and I will not run that trial ever again.

Yeah, it's a great trial. I'm a huge fan too. Glad to hear you enjoyed it. 

[D.Bug]

44 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

That's not what I've seen. It's a classic trial that's easily soloable too. Just follow Veracor's advice and you'll be fine. 

Soloable by a melee which is clearly what the OP is talking about? Or easily soloable by a range character using range shenanigans to bypass mechanics once again?  Oh I see from what you posted as I was writing this you're just going for your forum troll badge got it. 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2022 by D.Bug

[Jitsurei]

Doable though it may be, “everyone fly and spam range” isn’t engaging or fun. Awfully lame mechanic for an entire badge/trial/fight to boil down to.

[Ukase]

So...my problem is my phantom army pets still get killed by the crystal titan, even though the selling point is they're supposed to be impervious to harm. And my phantasm doesn't get any benefit from ambrosia - which I had thought was supposed to be fixed. 

So, yeah, even when it's not a master attempt, the trial is not working the way it's supposed to - at least not for illusion controllers. 
These crazy powers devs have this idea that everyone wants these challenges that used to be rather simple for some folks, challenging for some folks to be challenging for the folks it was simple for, and nigh impossible for the ones that found it challenging before the change. 

Truth is, if I put myself in their shoes (which wouldn't fit and make their shoes stinky) - I can see why. Like minded folks will find each other. These guys like things to be challenging. They remember how hard things used to be before IOs, and probably want these master badges to mean more than they have recently. 

When I think back to how things were during live...maybe 4 people across all the servers had all the badges, at least, maybe 4 folks had them posted through Beefcakes verification site, whatever that was. Badgewhore? I forget. Now, each server has a badgers post, and dozens have completed all the badges. Some folks have dozens of badgers that have earned all the badges. They see this and think it's a testament to how easy the game is, and not a testament to the mental disorder this kind of badging really is. I can't imagine the compulsion to torture one's self to do all those ouro badges a dozen time. Let alone "Avoids the Green Stuff". 

In that time, before inventions, team composition did matter to most teams. For some reason, just speculating here, these power devs want team composition to matter again. I don't think they remember the annoying times when you couldn't find a tank. You couldn't get a decent empath or debuffer. And oddly, some days, although rarely, you couldn't find a blaster or scrapper for the dps you wanted. This was abated a good bit with invention enhancements and the morality alignment system, so the villain and hero ATs could mix and match. Apparently, these guys have a solid core of teammates to choose from when they decide to do any type of content. They are blissfully unaware that some folks have vision issues, Some folks are hearing impaired, and some folks simply lack the temperament to deal with others or go afk too much to be useful to a team. These folks generally understand they won't be able to do everything in game, but these moves forward will not make things better for those folks, certainly. 

But yeah, the powers devs, and they know who they are, even though we don't - they might throw the casual player a bone - but it usually comes with the comment, "It's supposed to be hard, noob!" (the noob part is my own inserted sarcasm, because their actions suggest they think of the casual player in this way, at least, to me) 

This is going to become a game where the casual player will be relegated to being carried through by others, or just not doing certain tasks unless some of the more casual players find their way in the closed beta and become firm, logical and clear about why certain changes should not be proposed. From what I hear, a powers devs makes a suggestion and everyone agrees. Nobody has a dissenting view. Now - that's just one person that made that observation to me, and no idea how valid that is, but one thing is clear - we need more casual players in the closed beta to help right the course, because the game is not going in the right direction from what I see.  But that's mostly speculation on my part - I'm no insider. Yet. But if they insist on secrecy, it'll never happen, because I want everyone to know fully, ahead of time spent coding. 
Doesn't matter if a movie or tv show keeps plot lines secret for fear of a spoiler - this community needs those spoilers. That way - being fully informed, I can decide now if I want to still play. 
Suppose "they" choose to have the game change to where nobody could solo a task force again. Would I still invest my time getting badges on characters? New characters? Would I even still play? Because I would assume eventually, new task forces would be created. But to not have the option to solo them, or worse - have the option, but it automatically scaling to 8 players, even if solo...that's not where I would have the game go. 

I do not think CoH is supposed to be viewed as City of Hard Mode. I think HC got it right at the beginning - City of Options. These power devs are guilty of the same flaw I have myself. Assuming my way of thinking is typical of everyone else. It isn't. 

Pull your heads out of your asses, power devs. It stinks in there. The CoH world doesn't revolve around me, but it shouldn't revolve around you, either. Expand the orbit so we're all included. 

[ivanhedgehog]

Did this get changed? or is that the way it always worked?

[Snarky]

Yeah that was an ice cold shower after the change

 

 Crystal Ice

[Uun]

Foot Stomp does autohit unique damage (which Ambrosia protects against) and smashing damage which is flagged to require a successful hit roll. The knockback is 30% chance of mag 20 and ignores resistance.

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=devouringearth.crystal_titan_powers.foot_stomp&at=boss_archvillain

 

Prism Blast is the same, except it does energy damage instead of smashing. 

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=devouringearth.crystal_titan_powers.prism_blast&at=boss_archvillain

 

I did MO Eden a few months back (I think I was on a Nature defender) and it went very smoothly. I don't recall whether we taunted from the air.

[ivanhedgehog]

So they gave it the HM treatment? Is there some reason they are driving people from this server? Changing this content so it excludes a large % of people that have NO interest in their HM content?

 

[Uun]

8 minutes ago, ivanhedgehog said:

So they gave it the HM treatment? Is there some reason they are driving people from this server? Changing this content so it excludes a large % of people that have NO interest in their HM content?

This hasn't changed since Page 3 (almost a year ago).

 

Eden Trial

• You must now defeat the Rock Wall and Mold Wall to complete the Eden Trial.
• Greater Devoured in the Eden trial will now drop Ambrosia at level 53 and 54.
• Unique damage from the Crystal Titan attacks is now auto-hit and can only be mitigated via Ambrosia. Non-Unique damage still can be avoided with Defense.
• Ambrosia Resistance lowered to 65% while in Master of Eden mode.
• Expanded the level range so summoned Devouring Earth will not spawn far below the trial's level.
• You can now only select a Titan Origin Enhancement as a reward every 18 hours like other special enhancements.
• Completing this trial on the Master Challenge will give an even-level Titan Origin Enhancement instead of -2.

[Astralock]

44 minutes ago, ivanhedgehog said:

Did this get changed? or is that the way it always worked?

 

In Page 3, a Master of badge was added for the Eden Trial.  The requirements are: No deaths, and no Incarnate abilities.  In addition to that, the effectiveness of the Ambrosia inspiration was lowered to something like 65%, (I forget the exact percentage and I don't feel like looking it up).  As a result, the Crystal Titan is far more deadly.  The effectiveness of the Ambrosia inspiration was lowered so a Master of Eden Trial wouldn't be a cakewalk, but IMO it was lowered too much.

 

@Ukase , the Crystal Titan does unique damage which will always hurt and destroy Phantom Army.  This also includes Hamidon and Dark Watcher in the ASF's Vanguard heroes fight.  (It's always amusing to see Phantom Army versus his Phantom Army, but I digress.)  Also, Ambrosia and Essence of the Earth inspirations only work on Mastermind henchmen, not regular pets.  Controllers and Dominators are still useful without their pets... Masterminds without their henchmen, not so much. 

[Ukase]

1 hour ago, Astralock said:

@Ukase , the Crystal Titan does unique damage which will always hurt and destroy Phantom Army.  This also includes Hamidon and Dark Watcher in the ASF's Vanguard heroes fight.  (It's always amusing to see Phantom Army versus his Phantom Army, but I digress.)  Also, Ambrosia and Essence of the Earth inspirations only work on Mastermind henchmen, not regular pets.  Controllers and Dominators are still useful without their pets... Masterminds without their henchmen, not so much. 

If I'm remembering correctly, the patch notes clearly stated that Ambrosia would work for pets. They made no distinction. 
As shown here, from issue 27 page 2 patch notes: 

 

So, again, the Eden Trial is borked in this regard. The Ambrosia is supposed to work for pets. They do not work for any pets. Not lore pets, not phantasm, not PA. Where do you think a controller gets most of its damage from? Spectral wounds? Pfff. Damn things can barely out punch a level 7 hellion at level 50. 

I solo'd most of that map, until I got to the Titan. Even with my rad secondary, I just couldn't do enough damage because the trial didn't let me pets live due to the foolishly implemented auto-hit. 

In fairness, I remember a change in Hamidon Raids regarding Phantom Army on live. The playerbase solved the problem that was Hamidon, and the Paragon devs decided to change things up, to make Illusion controllers more useless than they already were. But there wasn't such a change to PA in the Eden trial that I remember, but that was a long time ago. 

Still, the patch notes were clear. But in practice, they are incorrect. 
Ergo - the trial should be adjusted to protect all pets. It really is that simple, as far as conclusions go. But I already know you won't see it like that. That's your right, of course, but I disagree. I'm the schmuck that blew 90 minutes of time in that trial to walk away empty handed because of this mistake. 

[Doc_Scorpion]

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

So, again, the Eden Trial is borked in this regard. The Ambrosia is supposed to work for pets. They do not work for any pets.

You've submitted a bug report?

[Ukase]

1 minute ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

You've submitted a bug report?

I did, at least a year ago when it happened. I ran that TF like the day after the patch hit, just to see if I could, now that the inspirations were supposed to work for pets. Time wasted. 

[Astralock]

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

If I'm remembering correctly, the patch notes clearly stated that Ambrosia would work for pets. They made no distinction. 
As shown here, from issue 27 page 2 patch notes: 

 

So, again, the Eden Trial is borked in this regard. The Ambrosia is supposed to work for pets. They do not work for any pets. Not lore pets, not phantasm, not PA. Where do you think a controller gets most of its damage from? Spectral wounds? Pfff. Damn things can barely out punch a level 7 hellion at level 50. 

I solo'd most of that map, until I got to the Titan. Even with my rad secondary, I just couldn't do enough damage because the trial didn't let me pets live due to the foolishly implemented auto-hit. 

In fairness, I remember a change in Hamidon Raids regarding Phantom Army on live. The playerbase solved the problem that was Hamidon, and the Paragon devs decided to change things up, to make Illusion controllers more useless than they already were. But there wasn't such a change to PA in the Eden trial that I remember, but that was a long time ago. 

Still, the patch notes were clear. But in practice, they are incorrect. 
Ergo - the trial should be adjusted to protect all pets. It really is that simple, as far as conclusions go. But I already know you won't see it like that. That's your right, of course, but I disagree. I'm the schmuck that blew 90 minutes of time in that trial to walk away empty handed because of this mistake. 

 

That's a mistake in the patch notes, unfortunately.  When Page 2 was in closed testing, Ambrosia and Essence of the Earth inspirations did originally work on both pets and henchmen, but, IIRC, because of the way City of Heroes is coded, repeatedly checking every person on the map (especially on a Hamidon raid), just kept hammering the server too hard so it was rolled back to just Mastermind henchmen only.  The patch notes must never have been adjusted.

[Ukase]

3 minutes ago, Astralock said:

 

That's a mistake in the patch notes, unfortunately.  When Page 2 was in closed testing, Ambrosia and Essence of the Earth inspirations did originally work on both pets and henchmen, but, IIRC, because of the way City of Heroes is coded, repeatedly checking every person on the map (especially on a Hamidon raid), just kept hammering the server too hard so it was rolled back to just Mastermind henchmen only.  The patch notes must never have been adjusted.

Thank you for that thorough response. It IS useful to see why something so reasonable was abandoned instead of just saying the patch notes were in error. So, the spaghetti code wins another battle. 

[Hedgefund2]

There's no reason to say "I think it's in the patch notes" when the patch notes are literally a click or two away. 

 

P2 Patch notes:

Specifics about Ambrosia and EoE:

 

Unless there exists GM trickery to edit posts without showing an edit history, there's no edit history shown so this looks to be the patch notes as presented on release.  That indeed, these buffs applied to MM pets only.

[Vanden]

3 hours ago, Uun said:

Foot Stomp does [...] smashing damage which is flagged to require a successful hit roll.

[...]

Prism Blast is the same, except it does energy damage instead of smashing.

 

The Crystal Titan's Resistance power gives +100% ToHit:

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=devouringearth.crystal_titan_powers.resistance&at=boss_archvillain

 

The Smashing and Energy Damage elements of its attacks might need a ToHit check, but with that much +ToHit it's essentially irrelevant. My Tanker had around 70-80% defense and was still getting hit by virtually every attack.

[srmalloy]

7 hours ago, Ukase said:

So...my problem is my phantom army pets still get killed by the crystal titan, even though the selling point is they're supposed to be impervious to harm.

The 'untouchable' T4 Lore pets also melt disturbingly quickly during Hami raids, as if the 'untouchable' part only made them immune to typed damage, not the untyped damage Hami does.

[Doomguide2005]

2 hours ago, Vanden said:

 

The Crystal Titan's Resistance power gives +100% ToHit:

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=devouringearth.crystal_titan_powers.resistance&at=boss_archvillain

 

The Smashing and Energy Damage elements of its attacks might need a ToHit check, but with that much +ToHit it's essentially irrelevant. My Tanker had around 70-80% defense and was still getting hit by virtually every attack.

Weee, well that's pretty much a Quartz pet boost without the pet yikes.  My SR shudders on that fact.  Sounds like one needs a few outside buffs ... about 70%+ at minimum.