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Next Up - S/L Farms

Troo

By Troo
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America's Angel

America's Angel

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Krimson said:

There's lots. It's always been viable. Players are just beholden to Fire. I've tried to form group or drum up interest. I run into farmers sporadically, so for the most part I just do it on my own. Not to mention there's a small subset who THINK they are running S/L by running a Council farm. 

 

Until Page 5, fire farming was the most viable option in terms of influence earned per minute. (The only metric that matters.)

 

Since the Burn nerf, the earning potential has shifted to S/L farming:


Active:

  • 1 Active Rad/Fire Brute + 2 AFK Rad/Fire Brutes = ~156mil p/h
  • 1 Active Rad/SS Tank + 2 AFK Elec/Rad Tanks = ~174mil p/h

AFK:

  • 3x AFK Rad/Fire Brutes = 95.4mil p/h
  • 3x AFK Elec/Rad Tanks = 99.0mil p/h

Like I said, there's not a lot in it. Especially AFK.


See here for a more detailed breakdown:
 

 

 

 

 

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America's Angel

America's Angel

Posted
Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, Krimson said:

Players THINK Fire was the Meta because players are beholden to Fire. The reason being is because the bar for entry is low. Fire Armor is super easy to cap Fire Resistance. Smashing/Lethal takes a bit more work. You don't have multiple Winter sets just waiting to help out. 

 

But Fire has never been superior to Smashing/Lethal. If you are crunching numbers in a database and doing your test farms in some linear fashion, then of course you are going to get mediocre results. No one knows how to tap S/L properly. They just think of it as some sort of variation of Fire with more common damage. Nevermind that S/L has multiple sets to choose from. For one, I don't see a lot of AE builders taking mob ratios into consideration. Sure, focus on balancing those individual Minions, Lieutenants, and Bosses, but don't think of their make up as a whole. By having certain numbers of different types of mobs, you can get better yields because you just have more bosses. Thankfully, the good ones like Big Gotter do realize that. 

 

But it's not just how you make your mobs that can affect your outcome. My Orb guys have a smidge less than 100% XP and yet overall XP gain is faster than if I tried to perfectly optimize them. If my guy gives 10% less XP and your guy takes 15% longer to kill.... 

 

Mob placement is another factor. Where are the mobs concentrated if at all? Can they be concentrated near choke points? Guess what happens when you combine maps with choke points and patrols? Hit the sweet spot and your Spreadsheet won't know what hit it. 

 

Other considerations are playstyle. The One-Mob-at-a-Time farmer will get consistent returns for sure. But More Risk=More Reward. Such as... negotiating patrols in a choke point. It's like Pokemon. Gotta Aggro 'Em all. And the best part is, thanks to Page 4, they don't just walk away anymore. Woo! Everyone in line of sight is a target until they are dead. Woo!

 

So anyhow. Yeah there was sure some nice Fire Farms, and the newer ones for Page 5 aren't too shabby either. Smashing/Lethal needs love. 😄 I'll give tips to builders one on one, but don't expect much more from me. 

 

I don't get into online debates about farming. I just look at the raw numbers. All that matters is how much inf/xp you can earn per hour.

Were you earning more than 214 million inf per hour triple boxing s/l farms in Page 4? (Just influence, not drops/etc).

 

Because that's how much fire farmers were earning.

 

Edited by America's Angel

 

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Neiska

Neiska

Posted
Posted

This post may have been made in jest, but at this juncture I wouldn't be surprised in the least if S/L farming was next on the nerf/adjust/rebalance/whatever terminology one cares to put on it. Followed by a cooldown on how many AE missions someone can que for in a time period, then another reduction in exp/inf gain, then further boosting to other non-AE activities until it reaches the point where playing AE solo will be the worst method of play. It would fit the pattern of change over the past few changes.

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America's Angel

America's Angel

Posted
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Krimson said:

I only have two accounts. It's all I need. Farmers on both so I can make what I want when I want. Most of my activity is made for one active farmer doing the heavy lifting. On rare occasions, I can drag the alt along to help with aura spam. That's happened like twice on 27 toons. Triple boxing is never going to happen. But I do things like front load patrol farms, and then wipe out half the mobs at the first choke point, then reset the farm because running around from place to place is not DPS.

 

Yes, there are a lot of other logistics involved. Meanwhile, I'm getting my "Let's make a 50" time back closer to two hours with one farmer and one alt. I don't care about getting the best possible XP and INF returns because running two accounts is enough of a hassle let alone three. That's right, I'd rather farm a little longer than mess with multiple accounts. But it's not even a race unless your slotted 50s are just there for decoration. 

 

Anyhow, this isn't even a serious thread to begin with. There is no Smashing/Lethal farm community the way there is a Fire Farm community. There's a hand full of individuals. We've been doing it for years, but people only notice the Meta. 

 

Ah you only used two accounts?

 

With only two accounts active, fire farmers could earn 160.8mil an hour in Page 4.  (Just influence, not drops/etc).

 

Were you making that?

Edited by America's Angel

 

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Infinitum

Infinitum

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, America's Angel said:

 

Ah you only used two accounts?

 

With only two accounts active, fire farmers could earn 160.8mil an hour in Page 4.  (Just influence, not drops/etc).

 

Were you making that?

 

Has anyone tried this with Axe/Fire or Fire/Axe - the new Axe setup on either S/L or Fire Farms?  New Axe combined with My looks impressive on paper.

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America's Angel

America's Angel

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, Infinitum said:

 

Has anyone tried this with Axe/Fire or Fire/Axe - the new Axe setup on either S/L or Fire Farms?  New Axe combined with My looks impressive on paper.

 

Axe Cyclone can take FF, but the proc rate is lower. And it does less damage than Footstomp. Better off active farming with the Rad/SS tank until Page 6.

 

I haven't tested if Rad/Spines or Rad/Rad tanks are as viable. It might be the case that their AoE + Damage Aura might make up for Footstomp doing more damage. But I imagine without the FF proc firing, everything is recharging slower, which likely lowers your overall DPS, increases your cleartime, and decreases your influence/minute.

 

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Infinitum

Infinitum

Posted
Posted
58 minutes ago, America's Angel said:

 

Axe Cyclone can take FF, but the proc rate is lower. And it does less damage than Footstomp. Better off active farming with the Rad/SS tank until Page 6.

 

I haven't tested if Rad/Spines or Rad/Rad tanks are as viable. It might be the case that their AoE + Damage Aura might make up for Footstomp doing more damage. But I imagine without the FF proc firing, everything is recharging slower, which likely lowers your overall DPS, increases your cleartime, and decreases your influence/minute.

 

I was looking more at whirling axe pendulum and cleave in rotation with the Mu powers.  All of them can proc great on paper and all are AOE/cone.

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Sanguinesun

Sanguinesun

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, America's Angel said:

 

Axe Cyclone can take FF, but the proc rate is lower. And it does less damage than Footstomp. Better off active farming with the Rad/SS tank until Page 6.

 

I haven't tested if Rad/Spines or Rad/Rad tanks are as viable. It might be the case that their AoE + Damage Aura might make up for Footstomp doing more damage. But I imagine without the FF proc firing, everything is recharging slower, which likely lowers your overall DPS, increases your cleartime, and decreases your influence/minute.

 

1. Cyclone is a different mechanic and different utility in the axe set than your attempt to compare it with foot stomp.  Most that use axe these days know this.  Though not an exact analogy, better for you to think on it as sets that have combo building and look at it as a combo builder in that it does a bit of damage whilst pulling in mobs to be in better range for pendulum/cleave.  Cyclone is thus not meant to be an equivalency for foot stomp and its rather disingenuous to consider it to be so.

 

2. Almost all of the powers in the axe set can take FF procs.  Getting 400% cap in a typical rotation is pretty easy.  

 

3. Can you provide evidence supporting that FF's proc for only cyclone is less than that say that of cleave or pendulum?  All 3 are aoes in their own rights now.   This feeds into why infinitum was saying that axe does have compelling evidence to be a good set because almost all the powers can take the proc and its 3 aoes in essence now with the pull in range utility power and 2 decent damage powers to follow it up with.      

 

Really end then becomes the challenge to juggle since one can fire the abilities more for more damage at the expense of such end and then whether one can get all 3 axe aoe fitting within their build choice for optimization.

 

4.  You have said in multiple threads now that you believe certain combinations(mainly your inclination towards certain tanker ones) are better for farming yet when asked to provide more clear data to support that conclusion, including your main thread in the guide's section on these things, that information has yet to be made wholly manifest.  Until all data sets, builds used, attack chain, map, testing controls and more are accounted for in detail,  the evidence from your conclusions don't seem as compelling.

 

5.  While I know you have seeming access to foreknowledge due to your testing rep status and communication with things to this point, should you be hinting/foreboding "until page 6" in such a manner?  You're essentially implying, yet again, that people who have invested time and effort in farming are yet again going to have to endure changes and adjustments against it.

 

 

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Troo

Troo

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6 hours ago, America's Angel said:

..Footstomp. Better off active farming with the Rad/SS tank until Page 6.

 

RAGE changes.. what?!

 

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America's Angel

America's Angel

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Sanguinesun said:

 

1. Cyclone is a different mechanic and different utility in the axe set than your attempt to compare it with foot stomp.  Most that use axe these days know this.  Though not an exact analogy, better for you to think on it as sets that have combo building and look at it as a combo builder in that it does a bit of damage whilst pulling in mobs to be in better range for pendulum/cleave.  Cyclone is thus not meant to be an equivalency for foot stomp and its rather disingenuous to consider it to be so.

 

2. Almost all of the powers in the axe set can take FF procs.  Getting 400% cap in a typical rotation is pretty easy.  

 

3. Can you provide evidence supporting that FF's proc for only cyclone is less than that say that of cleave or pendulum?  All 3 are aoes in their own rights now.   This feeds into why infinitum was saying that axe does have compelling evidence to be a good set because almost all the powers can take the proc and its 3 aoes in essence now with the pull in range utility power and 2 decent damage powers to follow it up with.      

 

Really end then becomes the challenge to juggle since one can fire the abilities more for more damage at the expense of such end and then whether one can get all 3 axe aoe fitting within their build choice for optimization.

 

4.  You have said in multiple threads now that you believe certain combinations(mainly your inclination towards certain tanker ones) are better for farming yet when asked to provide more clear data to support that conclusion, including your main thread in the guide's section on these things, that information has yet to be made wholly manifest.  Until all data sets, builds used, attack chain, map, testing controls and more are accounted for in detail,  the evidence from your conclusions don't seem as compelling.

 

5.  While I know you have seeming access to foreknowledge due to your testing rep status and communication with things to this point, should you be hinting/foreboding "until page 6" in such a manner?  You're essentially implying, yet again, that people who have invested time and effort in farming are yet again going to have to endure changes and adjustments against it.

 

Only SS attack I use on the Rad/SS is footstomp. Hence the like-for-like comparison. That said, if I was to look deeper into a Rad/Axe Tank, I imagine I'd go Pyre for Fireball, and then switch out Elec Fences + Cross Punch for Cleave & Pendulum.

 

So the question becomes, which of the following is better:

 

Ground Zero + Radiation Therapy + Footstomp + Spring Attack + Cross Punch + Elec Fences + Ball Lightning
or

Ground Zero + Radiation Therapy + Axe Cyclone + Cleave + Pendulum + Spring Attack + Fireball

or 
Ground Zero + Radiation Therapy + Axe Cyclone + Cleave + Pendulum + Elec Fences + Ball Lightning

That'll be the test to see for sure IMO.

As for evidence, I'll put it all in my farming thread once I'm finished testing to be sure I've found the most optimal setups. (Like I did for Rad/Fire fire farming with Brutes in Page 4.) Rad/SS Tank is the best I've found so far for active. And Elec/Rad Tank is the best I've found so far for AFK. But I've still got more stuff to test. (Including Axe, thanks to this thread.)

 

Also - other than some possible PvP stuff I have no idea what's coming in Page 6. My comment was more to the fact that both Page 4 and 5 changed the farming landscape and necessitated respecs/switching to a different character. I imagine Page 6 might too. (Apologies for the fright, @Troo.)

Edited by America's Angel
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Sir Myshkin

Sir Myshkin

Posted
Posted
On 10/21/2022 at 3:21 PM, MistressOhm said:

Maybe we just need to switch to a new damage type so as to get Dev attention to Things That Need To Be Fixed.

 

 And you all thought I was joking about Ice farming...

 

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Sanguinesun

Sanguinesun

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Posted
3 hours ago, America's Angel said:

 

 

So the question becomes, which of the following is better:

 

Ground Zero + Radiation Therapy + Footstomp + Spring Attack + Cross Punch + Elec Fences + Ball Lightning
or

Ground Zero + Radiation Therapy + Axe Cyclone + Cleave + Pendulum + Spring Attack + Fireball

or 
Ground Zero + Radiation Therapy + Axe Cyclone + Cleave + Pendulum + Elec Fences + Ball Lightning

 

 

For your last consideration with axe, what are the justifications/thinking for your choice in that rotation?  Opening with your most flexible with range and highest damage dealing aoe base potential power would seem more apt instead of being at the end of the rotation(along with it having a -res in it to help the damage potential of the rest of the rotation.

 

I'd also have different considerations for that opening rotation salvo(I'm assuming this is your opening one and not what you'd consider a sustained rotation).

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