Can Hurricane get the same treatment as Repulsion Field

[plainguy]

Repulsion Field

• If slotted for KB2KD, the repel is also disabled.

 

It just falls inline with the similar KB complaint. 
It would be nice if you had the OPTION to just have the debuff but not the knockback or straight up Knockdown but no repel 
 

[srmalloy]

And what about the people who slotted a KB->KD because they wanted the repel as a mob position management tool but not the KB and for whom the debuff is secondary? What you're asking for is that you can either have the power with all of its base features, or with just the debuff, with no way to keep the repel without keeping the KB. I'm going to have to vote for a hard pass on this; if you want a power that's just a PBAoE debuff, don't try to retroactively rewrite players to do it -- because making this change immediately tosses the repel for everyone who already slotted KB->KD.

[Yaliw]

I agree with both of you. I love hurricane and I like and dislike the propel. What if instead we change hurricane to always knockdown, then the kb2kd proc could remove the repel?

 

 

 

 

[SeraphimKensai]

2 minutes ago, Yaliw said:

I agree with both of you. I love hurricane and I like and dislike the propel. What if instead we change hurricane to always knockdown, then the kb2kd proc could remove the repel?

 

 

 

 

The drawback is that some people like the knockback and use that as mitigation requiring mobs to take time to get back into melee range.

 

The solution based on the previous replies might be conducive to having a knockback IO converted into a proc that inverses the repel?

 

That said there's a lot of people that would be against the change as they'll cite a preconceived expectation for them to have that IO slotted in such a fashion by their teammates, or view it as an slot tax, or even power creep. I know that because I have raised the question regarding hurricane previously a couple years ago.

[Yaliw]

I'd be happy with a proc that nullifies repel. I don't know many people who like the random knockback but sure, we can keep them happy.

 

[Sirius.Games]

An IO that shuts down repel would be nice.

 

Probably would have been a better way to do it originally.

 

The repel is the main reason I don't play hurricane. Just not my style when playing.

 

The devs had to know this would come up and probably used the repulsion field as a test bed.

 

But yes I know that some people like the repel and use it to great effect. For me I just don't like to do it.

[Psyonico]

I'm just going to point out that hurricane is probably the single most powerful to-hit debuff in the game.  By itself you can reach almost 50% on a defender.  If you removed the repel, by means of IO or otherwise, it would probably be over powered.

[plainguy]

7 hours ago, srmalloy said:

And what about the people who slotted a KB->KD because they wanted the repel as a mob position management tool but not the KB and for whom the debuff is secondary? What you're asking for is that you can either have the power with all of its base features, or with just the debuff, with no way to keep the repel without keeping the KB. I'm going to have to vote for a hard pass on this; if you want a power that's just a PBAoE debuff, don't try to retroactively rewrite players to do it -- because making this change immediately tosses the repel for everyone who already slotted KB->KD.

It doesn't have to be KB to KD..

Simply an option to have the hurricane, to have the debuff it has but choice somehow to not have the repel. I know the KB to KD will knock them down and then repel them back. 

Maybe the simple as should have been an option to repel be removed. 

Maybe a new IO in the existing sets that has KB to KD AND Repel removal. 

[plainguy]

6 hours ago, Sirius.Games said:

An IO that shuts down repel would be nice.

 

Probably would have been a better way to do it originally.

 

The repel is the main reason I don't play hurricane. Just not my style when playing.

 

The devs had to know this would come up and probably used the repulsion field as a test bed.

 

But yes I know that some people like the repel and use it to great effect. For me I just don't like to do it.

I should have went this direction.. 
 

[plainguy]

Maybe 

 

Have a new IO in existing sets or a single IO, maybe.. 

That removes repel.
Maybe have a combo, KDtoKDAndRepel

 

[Zect]

The repel should be seen as part of hurricane's balance tradeoff: it's an extremely powerful debuff (-tohit, -range) in the highest-dps support set, but requires you to use terrain and movement to keep enemies debuffed effectively. If the repel could be disabled, the power would be far too strong and need rebalancing.

 

Frankly, the repel should not be disabled on repulsion field either, but all of those buffs to force fields were a bad idea anyway.

 

 

[Wavicle]

When you slot Repulsion Field with -KB you lose the repel AND the KB is cut to a 10% chance.

Hurricane's KB chance is only 5%, so presumably with Hurricane you would lose the repel and the -ToHit and -Range would be cut down to like 0-10%.

Is that really what you want?

Edited November 19, 2022 by Wavicle

[kelika2]

I feel it will happen eventually and all the little changes here and there are testing grounds to ease the vocal forum minority who does not play the game at all anymore/regularly.

There were zero complaints about Repulsion Field and nothing but praise for Axe's new draw-in effect.

 

Plus even I think Hurricane's -tohit is huge without having any major drawbacks.  For all we know on some super secret internal test server slotting KB2KD reduces the -tohit effect by 33.3% of current for balance purposes.

[Doomguide2005]

     Hurricane without the Repel means no more using it as a positioning tool (no Herdicane) and will definitely act as an aggro magnet the user best be prepared to deal with.  There's a reason mobs are frequently and desperately trying to close with the user (2 powerful debuffs one of them -range) while the Repel continually pushes them away.  My Storms rarely use it.  It would vanish or be reduced to truly niche use on my Stormies particularly the Controllers.  It would be a very different power without the Repel.  Even though I rarely use Hurricane this would be a definite no thanks from me.  I'd never use the IO is a certainty regardless.

[kelika2]

1 hour ago, Doomguide2005 said:

     Hurricane without the Repel means no more using it as a positioning tool (no Herdicane) and will definitely act as an aggro magnet the user best be prepared to deal with.  There's a reason mobs are frequently and desperately trying to close with the user (2 powerful debuffs one of them -range) while the Repel continually pushes them away.  My Storms rarely use it.  It would vanish or be reduced to truly niche use on my Stormies particularly the Controllers.  It would be a very different power without the Repel.  Even though I rarely use Hurricane this would be a definite no thanks from me.  I'd never use the IO is a certainty regardless.

check the actual number on hurricane's -tohit.  its huge and only matched by dark servant and spectral terror in melee

If the repel got removed by an enhancement a rooted enemy with 5% chance tohit and cant move would be huge in your described situation

[Doomguide2005]

     The actual number (on a Controller) is a 30% debuff.  As Psy pointed out fully enhanced it'll push 50%.  Some suggested the debuff value might need adjusting as a result of any Repel changes.  I'm pointing out that removing the kb/kd and repel plus reducing the debuffs could equal a pretty significant change to the mitigation power of Hurricane.  Are there ways to deal?  Absolutely, most of my Stormies are Controllers and don't use Hurricane at all (Stalagmites+Thunderclap etc.)  But what if your not a Controller say Storm/Fire Defender rather than Fire/Storm Controller.  Likely a major play style change.  Especially against higher level, higher rank foes if the debuff is seriously reduced.

     But that's not really here nor there for me.  It just strikes me subjectively as wrong.   If it were changed so be it, won't pick up my ball and go home still love the game either way and I'll still love my Stormies.

[Outrider_01]

On 11/18/2022 at 10:04 AM, Psyonico said:

I'm just going to point out that hurricane is probably the single most powerful to-hit debuff in the game.  By itself you can reach almost 50% on a defender.  If you removed the repel, by means of IO or otherwise, it would probably be over powered.

This. My exact same thought, it would be entirely regened nerfed rebalanced. Other debuff pbaoe toggles are typically -20% but they throw in other debuffs like -resist, -dmg, -def.

 

Flipside, a revamped gale would be nice. It's a weak energy torrent, if it had a debuff attached it would be more useful.

[Wavicle]

Keep your hands off my Gale.

[Outrider_01]

1 hour ago, Wavicle said:

Keep your hands off my Gale.

Small debuff, thats all.  Like maybe -def or -tohit, concussion force making the brain matter a little slow to process in reacting to a dodging a wrench or swinging like a drunk. 

 

You can proc it to do damage, but if used with an SO type build its just a minor damage cone with massive KB.

[Wavicle]

Gale is a strong mitigation tool. It’s not for doing damage.

[Communistpenguin]

I just wish they would give Hurricane back its good repel instead of the weak repel it has now.

[Greycat]

Why don't we just remove every effect from the game that isn't directly damage, a buff or debuff? No more KD, KU, stuns, -def, repels, holds, chances for holds, nothing for anyone to have to learn to use strategically or cleverly.
 

Then we can work on getting rid of all the graphics people complain about. Hurricane can be a big transparent plate, all the armors - self-affecting and team -  can just be icons on the buff bars.

 

We can be "City of people running around causing numbers to appear on NPCs." Until people complain about those numbers appearing and ask for those to go away.

 

"City of mysterious NPC deaths." Wheee...

[Wavicle]

City of Spreadsheets 

[Rudra]

55 minutes ago, Greycat said:

Why don't we just remove every effect from the game that isn't directly damage, a buff or debuff? No more KD, KU, stuns, -def, repels, holds, chances for holds, nothing for anyone to have to learn to use strategically or cleverly.
 

Then we can work on getting rid of all the graphics people complain about. Hurricane can be a big transparent plate, all the armors - self-affecting and team -  can just be icons on the buff bars.

 

We can be "City of people running around causing numbers to appear on NPCs." Until people complain about those numbers appearing and ask for those to go away.

 

"City of mysterious NPC deaths." Wheee...

You just know all those numbers are going to have to be changed to all be the same as whatever power has the highest number too. For fairness.

[twozerofoxtrot]

On 11/19/2022 at 3:04 AM, Psyonico said:

If you removed the repel, by means of IO or otherwise, it would probably be over powered.

 

Quite right. 

 

We should reverse the repel direction, rather than get rid of it.