"Icoulddobetteritis"

[MoonSheep]

ooh, a TF i want to play, i’ll message the lead and get involved

 

-joins team-

 

well, i’m in now. time to turn off the chat window, nav bar, status bar and let ‘er rip in every direction for the next hour!

 

- The average PuG team, 2004-2023

[MoonSheep]

11 hours ago, Krimson said:

I spent most of 2022 respeccing toons, and 2023 will be more of the same. "Icoulddobetteritis" for me means "Why am I not yet a God?" and then I open Mids. This means, I have not noticed this particular problem with PUGs because I endeavor to make my toons self-contained and ready to go no matter the make up of the group, or lack thereof.

 

in my view, this mindset is the downfall of CoX - the game and teams are so much more incredible, powerful, interesting and diverse when people build their alts with the intended archetype and teamwork in mind 

 

the “me me me” fad has made the game boring and homogenous

[BazookaTwo]

13 hours ago, Snarky said:

You don't read my posts?  A small recognizable portion of the players are incredibly good.  A lot of people on alts I do not recognize are really good.  Then the other half, and it seems to be about half.  A lot of people seem drunk or distracted.  They can play....but just doing stuff that makes you wonder if they played the TF before or have a map open or are pouring themselves wine.  Then, a small unrecognizable portion that seem to be batshit nuts and unteachable.

 

I'd like to team with you more to see where I fall in that sorting ratio! 🤣

[Xiddo]

I recently did an ITF with an empathy MM so bad three of my teammates genuinely didn't know we had a buffer, over a debuffer, until the third mission. Absolutely zero healing or buffs. 

I quote "we have an empathy toon?!".

[Zect]

14 hours ago, biostem said:

I do try to tactfully provide some advise, but it seems like an extremely fine line between providing helpful tips and sounding like a control freak barking orders.

 

Here are some ways to stay tactful.

1. Criticize the issue or action, not the person.
2. Briefly provide sound reasoning for your comments; the goal is instruction, not compliance.
3. If people do not listen, shrug and move on.

I suspect that #3 is where a lot of people struggle with, and it is the key difference between a tip and an order. If someone does not listen to what I have to say, I am not going to harp on the issue. As far as I am concerned, it's their loss and I am not going to throw pearls after swine.

 

Being tactful does not mean you need to sugarcoat everything. Tact does not preclude us from being passionate about a subject or confident in the strength of our reasoning and experience. There is no need to wrap everything in a plastic shell of saccharine, insincere pleases, maybes, could yous, and so on. It makes you sound passive-aggressive and condescending (you treat them as though they cannot handle the facts).

 

I'm personally the opposite of you - I deliberately try to be somewhat blunt and forceful when dispensing free advice to people. One of three things will ensue.

 

1. They will get defensive. These are people whom knowledge is wasted on.

2. They will be appreciative. These are people who deserve to gain advantage.

3. They will counter with reasoned arguments that point out genuine flaws in my reasoning or expose my own lack of knowledge. This is the best outcome because I came, hoping to give; but instead I received.

 

I find my approach a great time saver because it swiftly gets people to self-sort into the above three categories. Then I can easily decide if I want to engage further with them.

 

 

[Snarky]

8 hours ago, Krimson said:

 

 

On my next Ted Talk, we'll discuss holding up to five mobs in clinch points as a means to speed up clear times. 😛 Sorry for the super long post, it was treatment day, and I literally have gene-altering drugs in me at the moment. 

Long post but well organized.  Thank you.  Now if we could force people to read it before rolling a new tank!

 

Get well.  Keep fighting.

[Luminara]

I play non-standard characters.  Petless mastermind.  Petless dominator with only two controls used frequently (Possess and Fearsome Stare).  Melee sentinels.  So if I do find myself thinking I could do what someone else is doing better, they really have to be screwing the pooch.

 

But I wouldn't comment on it, because I also know I can be humbled at any moment.  I'm not perfect.  I'm not exceptional.  I'm not the best, or the smartest, or the wisest.  I assume there's always someone better, smarter, more capable.  Moreover, I'm not the one playing that player's character, or using that character's build, so I'm in no position to say what he/she could or should be doing.  If he/she is enjoying it, that's reason enough to keep my nose out of his/her business.  My foot belongs in enemy faces, not in my own mouth.

[Shred Monkey]

To me, teammates are people who occasionally share witty banter while we work though a mission.  I never ever think about what powers they're using or not using.  

[tidge]

There are only two circumstances where I ever feel the slightest twinge to tell PUGmates how to play their character, and even in those limited cases I typically keep my fingers mashing buttons or bantering.

 

The first is when I see a Mastermind (with a large number of henchmen) repeatedly dying... I want to believe I am motivated by wanting to make sure the player understands all the mechanics of the AT, but I've played long enough with my MMs that I often do crazy things with them myself.

 

The second is almost exclusively on lower level content when I see a not-so-squishy character that could be able to manage a lot of aggro (solo) but is relying on something exclusively like an aura. Just running past groups on a Positron TF (either part) to wake them up does not mean that you have their aggro under control. I've just been shrugging off this sort of behavior as a sort of player-induced invitation to team wipes.

[MoonSheep]

49 minutes ago, Krimson said:

Moonsheep sent me a PM and I explained my point of view in further detail, including why when my choices for teams are PUGs or ME, why I choose ME. It's not a "I want to do everything on my own" thing so much as "I have three hours to play and I really want to get this story arc done, so let's get it done!"

 

you’re right - i pm’d you as i saw you had misunderstood my post and felt it was the nicer/calmer option than letting the thread descend into an argument, we’ve had too many of those in the last few months 

 

my fault for setting my expectations too high i suppose 

 

[Yomo Kimyata]

I look at my builds from a year ago and I’m like , “God, what an idiot!!!”  Because I have so much more information and knowledge now.

 

All my builds can solo just about anything soloable.  I’m not going to insist everyone else can’t make a build that isn’t my style.  At the same time, I’m not going to join a team and then act like a jerk just because I have learned more about my build than someone else knows about their build who I know nothing about.

 

I can’t believe I still have to say this, but don’t be an asshole.  If someone has a crappy build by your standards, so what?  If it’s a MO run, then it’s your responsibility to screen.  Other than that, it’s basically you telling people that they are eating the wrong foods and watching the wrong movies.

[biostem]

10 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

If someone has a crappy build by your standards, so what?

You're changing the subject of the thread - it's not about a bad build - it's about people who have their key powers seemingly not using them or otherwise not being aware of what their teammates are doing.  I'm not saying you have to always have an eye on everyone's HP/end bars, but if you stick together and see someone struggling, and you have the tools to assist them, then why aren't you?  Of course, if any link in that chain of awareness to action is broken, then things fall apart.  I've also explicitly talked about trying my best to stay behind the line of "dickishness", while still providing helpful advice.  I mean, I get that the game is free to play and that pretty much anyone can do so, but there's also got to be some sort of minimum level of competency, especially in higher level or more difficult content.  I suppose it will devolve to either picking and choosing teammates or throwing up my hands in defeat and simply making fully self-sufficient characters and saying to heck with my teammates...

[biostem]

6 minutes ago, Krimson said:

I honestly don't understand players who make toon after toon after toon, leaving most of them unfinished.

Well, as someone who loves playing with the costume editor, a big part of that is creating a costume that I like, but not having any great investment in the character beyond that.  A second component is when I read over a powerset or combination of powersets on an AT, think it sounds good on paper, but in practice, it just doesn't pan out...

[biostem]

Just now, Krimson said:

That's certainly valid, though you don't actually need to make a toon for that. Costumes are saved locally to your hard drive. I recycle mine. But I can also use them for my NPCs in AE missions. 

It's sort of a matter of convenience - by having the character in my roster, (and with 1000 slots per server, there's no big sacrifice in using up a slot), I have a "living model" of a costume I like that I may scroll past as I'm checking characters or deciding whom to play, which in turn could re-inspire me and/or I may revisit as my attitude/interests change over time...

[biostem]

Just now, Krimson said:

My costume roster looks like this.

But you can't actually see what they look like unless you load the game the start loading up each one - I can just scroll through my character roster and see each one.  Trust me, I have a huge costume folder, too...

[SteelRat70]

On 1/3/2023 at 9:03 PM, biostem said:

One problem I've been having lately, which I fully acknowledge is more "my issue" than anyone else's, is that I frequently find myself teaming with others, and wonder why they aren't using this power here or there, or why they aren't buffing/supporting the rest of the team better.  I'll be on my tank, and wonder why the various buffers are ignoring me, or while on my buffer, wondering why the tank/brute isn't taking any steps to keep aggro off me and the other "squishies".  I'm not trying to say I'm the best player or anything, and I do try to tactfully provide some advise, but it seems like an extremely fine line between providing helpful tips and sounding like a control freak barking orders.  Has anyone else run up against this catch-22?  Thanks for reading!

 

No.  I tend to be more focussed on what I believe I should be doing, rather than what I believe other people should be doing.  If people are doing things differently to what I expect, then I make it my business to try and adapt to that, instead of expecting them to play in a rigid manner that is predetermined by me.

Also this game has been so hugely dumbed down since live, it's very rare that people not doing what they "should" be really matters anyway.  And before anyone chimes in with "what about TF 'X' or enemy type 'Y'" I've yet to join a team that doesn't just steam roller through everything regardless of what ATs are present or how they're built.  Certain support toons of mine are more or less obsolete now because by the time a key mob is either locked down or debuffed it's dead anyway.  Reading through the patch notes, that power creep just keeps on truckin' with so called "Quality of Life" changes.

Edited January 5, 2023 by SteelRat70

[ForeverLaxx]

On 1/3/2023 at 3:03 PM, biostem said:

I'm not trying to say I'm the best player or anything, and I do try to tactfully provide some advise, but it seems like an extremely fine line between providing helpful tips and sounding like a control freak barking orders.  Has anyone else run up against this catch-22?

No, but I don't concern myself with the way others are playing unless they're being actively/intentionally detrimental or griefing. If the missions are going relatively smoothly, what do I care if Johnny Two Toes is using Flares instead of Fire Blast or is keeping Fly active during combat?

 

I never give advice either unless asked to. The only thing worse than bad advice is unsolicited advice, no matter how "tactfully" you may think it's being delivered.

[biostem]

1 hour ago, ForeverLaxx said:

what do I care if Johnny Two Toes is using Flares instead of Fire Blast or is keeping Fly active during combat?

Well, if you're mezzed and the team wipes because "Johnny Two Toes" couldn't be bothered to use [insert mez protection buff here] on anyone, then maybe chiming in could have been helpful.

 

1 hour ago, ForeverLaxx said:

The only thing worse than bad advice is unsolicited advice, no matter how "tactfully" you may think it's being delivered.

But that's the crux of the argument, isn't it - finding a way to share your wisdom/experience with others that may not yet possess it - after all, we all had to learn the ropes at some point.  I would hope that most players want to improve themselves, and if the advice is actually useful and appropriate to the situation at hand, why not?

 

1 hour ago, ForeverLaxx said:

No, but I don't concern myself with the way others are playing unless they're being actively/intentionally detrimental or griefing.

So what you're saying is you have to use your judgment - it's not like there's always some big sign over a griefer's head pointing them out, and what one person could interpret as such may actually be someone who was PL'd, (thus lacking much real-combat experience), or otherwise didn't realize that there's a better way to go about playing their character...

Edited January 5, 2023 by biostem

[SteelRat70]

2 hours ago, biostem said:

otherwise didn't realize that there's a better way to go about playing their character...

 

How they play their character is their business, not yours.  And whether they consider your suggestion as "a better way to play" it, is up to them, not you.

Seriously what makes you the judge of how someone plays?

[nihilii]

On 1/4/2023 at 4:29 AM, Krimson said:

If your tank is taking damage, it's okay to tell them to pop a Good Luck.

One of my favorite ways to help PuGs, pop team insps on my teammates whenever I would use a normal insp of the same kind in their situation.

 

Most of them don't notice either.

 

"wow, I rocked that fight" 😄

Edited January 5, 2023 by nihilii

[ZemX]

7 hours ago, ForeverLaxx said:

I never give advice either unless asked to. The only thing worse than bad advice is unsolicited advice, no matter how "tactfully" you may think it's being delivered.

 

Unsolicited advice is not bad.  Repeated unsolicited advice can be.  If someone doesn't know and is unsecure about asking, you might actually help them.  If they don't want to hear it, they can say so and that's where you drop it.  You tried.   Nagging them would say more about your own ego and sense of superiority than their need for help.  But the idea you can't even say the first word is absurd.  It's a team.  Teams should talk.

 

Example: A new low level player, playing a controller, is repeatedly dying on a team because they are spamming the AOE immob.  They don't necessarily know everything there is to know about aggro mechanics yet and might just believe they are on a bad team that can't protect them when the truth is they should wait a second or two for someone else sturdier to establish aggro control or drop some debuffs on the enemy (at least until they build themselves up later in levels).   Telling them to wait a few seconds is good advice.  If their response is an angry "You can't tell me how to play!" then that's that.  They'll probably keep dying and then quit or they'll realize you were right and learn to hold their fire for a bit.  But it's worth a shot.

[Seed22]

6 hours ago, biostem said:

Well, if you're mezzed and the team wipes because "Johnny Two Toes" couldn't be bothered to use [insert mez protection buff here] on anyone, then maybe chiming in could have been helpful.

 

But that's the crux of the argument, isn't it - finding a way to share your wisdom/experience with others that may not yet possess it - after all, we all had to learn the ropes at some point.  I would hope that most players want to improve themselves, and if the advice is actually useful and appropriate to the situation at hand, why not?

 

So what you're saying is you have to use your judgment - it's not like there's always some big sign over a griefer's head pointing them out, and what one person could interpret as such may actually be someone who was PL'd, (thus lacking much real-combat experience), or otherwise didn't realize that there's a better way to go about playing their character...

I tend to err on the side of not giving unsolicited advice.

 

The folks who do are among the worst players in all of CoH. There is a low floor but high ceiling to CoH, and honestly? Part of being at that ceiling is understanding that you DON’T have all the answers and you sure as hell aren’t good enough to fully optimize someone else’s toon because of this thing called:

 

Different Playstyles.

 

 

Because of the fact that each of us has a unique style, it’s true mastery to assume unless asked that whatever they have is suited to their particular playstlye. And unless asked, they don’t want anyone’s advice. 

[Nemu]

Well, there are some scenarios where it makes sense to let people know "the better way to play it."

 

Like spotting a melee player that skipped their mez protection. I've run into those before. I don't think I'll get a whole lot of resistance from the "play however you want to play" crowd suggesting that player might want to pick up the mez shield/click. I also think the lack of resistance comes from the fact that a lot more people understand melee AT better than other ATs and it's imprinted in their minds that there is a right way to build the AT when it comes to mez protection. Unfortunately, the extent of their knowledge with this game stops with melee ATs.

 

Shift the scenario to a defender with clear mind not buffing squishies who also provide the team with important buff/debuffs/damage and you'll get a lot of people screaming "don't tell me how to play!" when you merely suggest that they can CM the squishies instead of the TANK.

 

I have a critical eye towards people that play support, and a lot of those players don't have the mindset or the knowledge to play support. Fortunately IOs have given every build the possibility to be self sufficient, so in this meta I don't sweat it. I even let 1 attack aura rockers be. Can you imagine back in the days? The "anti healzors" camp would be all up in arms,

[Wavicle]

Do people routinely play bad even in harder content?

I mean, I get people playing drunk and stupid in radio missions, but how about Doctor Aeon?

[Snarky]

14 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

Do people routinely play bad even in harder content?

I mean, I get people playing drunk and stupid in radio missions, but how about Doctor Aeon?

I do not run a lot of “hard” content.  When I do PUG something like that I tend to watch who is leading.   There are a few names on Excelsior that are great.  No guarantees but at least leadership is doing all they can.  The breakpoint for me is ITF.  I will PUG +4/x8 or 2 star ITF on a PUG, pretty random.  I was on my Dark/Invul Brute on a two star ITF PUG and the Tank taco’d against ROM.  I stepped up and with a Corr propping me up could Tank him and kite him as needed.