This is just a "fun" server now

[dtj714]

I lost all interest in this project after the last major patch (I27, pg 5). The continued power creep was just too, too much. But my replacement project is down atm, so I figured I would come post a comment I wanted to make back then, but didn't bother to.

 

IMHO, Homecoming has departed so far from its genesis (the live game), that it's just a "fun" server, and no longer any valid facsimile of the original. You might as well let people create insta-50s with 100 million inf. That's only a few steps removed from its current state.

 

But obviously, for those who continue to play, that's fine. Or at least acceptable. I know there are other more "purist" or "vanilla" projects out there, but unfortunately none of them has nearly the population as Homecoming. And when it comes to private servers, population is king.

 

Anywho, just my .02 inf. Curious to know what others think. If there was a "vanilla" CoH private server with Homecoming's population, would you rather play that, or this?

[tidge]

Homecoming offers me plenty of options on a variety of axes, ranging from slow solo to rapid promotions, and gentle pummeling to "hard mode". I don't think I'd want to go back to the "live" environment.

[Neiska]

12 minutes ago, dtj714 said:

Curious to know what others think.

 

I haven't played much since the last big update. Some of the changes I was against, but I won't go into detail. But I have found fewer of my friends on as well, and my SG pretty much exists in name only. But the more they change, the less I find myself enjoying it. But that is my mere opinion. Others most likely enjoy them. And that is okay too. 

 

So yes, I have barely logged in for a few months now, but it wasn't only due to the latest batch of changes, but that certainly affected my desire to play. But I do hope that those who enjoy all the changes continue to do so. Change isn't always a bad thing, just these last few (namely with Masterminds) weren't for me, and neither was the dialogue/arguments that arose during the beta-peroid.

[Snarky]

I always gravitated to CoH to make the supers…hero, villain, alien, monster, robot.   The fact that the characters on CoH are super….. yeah, I am okay with that.  When I want a challenge we can do Really Hard Way Magisterium 

[Ironblade]

58 minutes ago, dtj714 said:

IMHO, Homecoming has departed so far from its genesis (the live game), that it's just a "fun" server, and no longer any valid facsimile of the original. You might as well let people create insta-50s with 100 million inf. That's only a few steps removed from its current state.

Firstly, last time I checked, people played games to have "fun".

Second, the original state of the game is not some idealized state - it had serious problems (and still does).  But being a "valid facsimile of the original" is, in my opinion, NOT something to strive for.

 

Would I rather play a vanilla server or this one?  Definitely this one.  While the Homecoming team has made a number of changes I do not like, I feel this is outweighed by the quality of life and other improvements that make the overall experience more enjoyable.

[Nyghtmaire]

Sorry to hear this project is not meeting your needs. I respect the take but don’t really understand it.
 

I’m continually impressed how many options are available to play on Homecoming. Many leveling options. Decent to excellent grouping options (sever dependent). And a player base that, by and large, is maintaining the spirit of the original game (helpful, patient, funny, etc.). 
 

Regarding power creep, the ceiling is high for an interested player. Not exactly seeing it when playing across the board. This is a game a player needs to search out. Not really advertised in any traditional sense. Predominantly, this remains a game in which current players were folks who missed, and previously played, the original game. Knowledge seems to be collectively higher. The mechanics are also fairly clear once tracked down. With that combination, a person who wants to min/max can really go to town. And there is a functioning market to accommodate that. 
 

All in all, the core cool thing about this game is a character that looks super (or whatever other adjective the imagination calls for) at level 1. Anything past that fills in the story of the character. There’s no zero sum awarded/rewards. Anything can be available to every interested player. There’s no competition for any IO, benefit, or other defined goodie between players. Rather, there is a massive amount of freedom to build characters the way you want, play the way you want, and develop meaningful goals to meet your playtime needs. Many players don’t participate in the rush to 50, building incarnates, or even set bonuses. So, sorry it doesn’t meet your needs. 

[twozerofoxtrot]

1 hour ago, dtj714 said:

Curious to know what others think.

 

Live was intentionally designed with aspects to draw out a players time so they'd be encouraged to subscribe and have to stay subcribed for a while in order to fully unlock a character's potential. Assuming you didn't give up and roll another alt.

 

This design was not there to make the game more engaging. It was there to separate people from their currency.

 

 

 

Other servers still have a lot of those systems in place. I'm not a fan of that. I can't think of what "fun server" aspects you're referring to that manifested in pg5, but most of the significant divergences were present in i25.  Anything since has been minor in comparison. 

 

I say this despite being a big fan of where Rebirth has gone with their design. If I couldn't play on Everlasting, specifically, I'd go back there regardless of population. 

[Shred Monkey]

I don't think Homecoming has departed from the original by much.  If anything they've made balance changes and eliminated some of the most egregious forms of fast-easy leveling.  IMHO, the decision to let AE giving XP was the point where CoH lost it's "legitimacy" as a MMRPG and became a simulation/sandbox style game.  I'm still shocked they didn't know what players would do with customizable missions that give XP.

 

That said... I just don't farm and I still enjoy it.
 

 

 

 

[kito]

Idk about outher but for me COH is just a place to rp and have fun. I don't play to grind I don't play struggle I just play for fun. I would prefer the devs gave an unlimited inf option as then I would never need to worry about it again. But it's not hard to make inf and thing just keep getting cheaper over time. Build that took about a billion inf In 2019 I can make now for 600 mill.  

 

The base building options for me are a god send for the community and rp settings. I would like more in world stuff and some few costume options and movement animations but as is home coming is about perfect to me.  

 

If you want a harder game you can make it harder, find some friends make a hardcore day to play with them use only So play on +4 etc I would show up for that maby a few times a year. 

But a game like that I just don't have the time. And I don't even have a job XD I have 0 idea how the devs manage to maintain upgrade and play the game while working and having a life, and god bless them for it.

[MoonSheep]

i think this is a valid viewpoint and i thank you for making it. it's not a popular one on the forum however, so you'll need to be comfortable with being slightly unique! i've said for quite a while that the game has become too easy and obvious exploits like AE need to be amended, i've earned myself many downvotes for defiantly having such views and being inflexible to how the rest of the community viewthings

 

over time i've become more comfortable with the state of the game. some of the changes which may be power creep are actually allowing me to unlock my preferred style of play more. e.g. having lvl 32/38 powers at 26/28 means i can build characters i wouldn't previously, as i play mostly at the lower levels.

 

i enjoy mostly traditional play and can still do this, i don't use DXP, visit AE or join teams above my level. i've also amassed a healthy global list of people who enjoy the same, to us, the game isn't vastly different to when it was on live. i spend most of my time running posi 1's and 2's and some favourite TFs. lately i'm enjoying recruiting teams of 8 to run select arcs in ouro which i know to be good fun

 

i do also think you should consider how things really were on live, especially now that we're all much older and have responsibilities! the late lvl 38's and early 40's were a ridiculous grind, we simply don't have time to run that much content in order to level thesedays, and i say that as someone with just 3 alts on homecoming

[Ruin Mage]

7 hours ago, dtj714 said:

I lost all interest in this project after the last major patch (I27, pg 5). The continued power creep was just too, too much. But my replacement project is down atm, so I figured I would come post a comment I wanted to make back then, but didn't bother to.

 

IMHO, Homecoming has departed so far from its genesis (the live game), that it's just a "fun" server, and no longer any valid facsimile of the original. You might as well let people create insta-50s with 100 million inf. That's only a few steps removed from its current state.

Homecoming has never advertised as sticking "true" to Live, and none of the servers have stuck true to their original calling except maybe Cake.

It is a server in which you can have fun, yes, but it is not a "fun" server as you describe. It is a server that respects your time far better than Live did by its sunset days. It is a server that is progressing with new content rather than remaining stagnant in the past. That doesn't mean its a few steps removed from insta-50s. That is a bad argument/slope to slide down just because it has made things easier to obtain. 50s were always easy to obtain on live if that's your argument. That's no different to what HC has given the predominance of AE farming.

Power Creep is going to happen with balancing power sets and adding new ones - it's the nature of progress. We're also playing a super hero game so getting stronger and FEELING strong should be inherent to the game. Otherwise, why even bother? There's been an additional creation of a challenge through Hard Modes - which do slightly promote actual teamwork and aren't an autopilot experience (in comparison to PI Radios against Council for the hundredth time in a week) - which is something, to some, was lacking after a while.

But here's the thing too; Rebirth and Thunderspy have power creep too. They've introduced new sets, new ATs (Rebirth only I think), and have made modifications to power sets that make them stronger. So that just feels moot to bring up when you'll experience that no matter what server you go to. Hell, Rebirth is about to revamp Force Field and probably make it a much stronger set. It looks dope as hell.

This isn't the age of MMOs being a Second Job, which I feel is what you want. The original game was a Subscription-based game where some powersets were far more powerful because they were Buy-to-Play sets. It was a horrible mess of a game that was transitioning based on the times. Paragon Store/Rewards, The Incarnate System (which was a horrid grind back on live, I much prefer the ease of access we have now), and more - these things are not what you should hold up on a pedestal. If the live game had continued, we would have likely seen more post-2000s MMO trends get further adapted.

It takes a lot of balls to post this sort of stuff on the forums, so kudos.

Edited January 17, 2023 by Shadeknight

[InvaderStych]

So, I love vintage Toyota Landcruisers. Was even fortunate enough to own one for several years.

 

I also love analogies, so don't worry, this post will become relevant to the thread shortly.

 

This is a faithfully restored, but otherwise all original 1982 FJ-40.  It is a piece of automotive history that someone has spent time and effort to ensure remains true to the original:

 

 

Here's the thing. They were amazing, ground-breaking trucks that took the Land Rover idea and made a truck that actually worked.¹

 

But they are also slow, contain engines that couldn't pull the skin off a custard, uncomfortable, cold in the winter, hot in the summer, loud, and on a long road trip will fold you into knots so uncomfortable that the people who figured out "stress positions" useful for torture could take a few lessons.

 

This is a 1976 "Resto-Mod" FJ-40.

 

 

It has upgraded (comfortable) seats, a Cummins Diesel swap, better suspension, better transmission, an insulated/sound-dampened interior, upgraded hardware, fittings, instruments, better roll cage, better bumpers, better wheels, etc, etc etc.

 

It is a superior vehicle by every measure relevant to actually using and enjoying a vehicle.

 

I'd be happy to own either, but guess which one I would rather drive?

 

Yup, the Resto-Mod.

 

Homecoming is a Resto-Mod.  Faithful to the spirit of the original while improving upon what was wrong/inadequate with it at the same time.

 

My Opinion: A true "Vanilla" server that faithfully stuck to the state of the game during Retail would not be nearly as fun as nostalgia would lead one to believe.  This is of course, subjective. Some folks absolutely hate Resto-Mod Vehicles, and I respect that.

 

What I don't respect is someone who comes into a forum for Resto-Mods and proverbially s#$%'s on everyone's parade because they don't like Resto-Mods.

 

 How about just letting us drive our Resto-Mod?

 

🍻

 

 

 

 

 

1 - Yeah, shots fired at the LandRover faithful. Come at me.  Even James May will admit - and has done so on camera - that if you want to merely "go into the Outback, take a Land Rover, but if you want to get home again, take a Land Cruiser." 

Edited January 17, 2023 by InvaderStych

[EmperorSteele]

I mean, on one hand, I love HC and my knee jerk reaction is to try to counter OP's opinion.

 

Otoh, I don't think I've logged in for more than an hour total in the last month.

 

Part of the problem with any MMO is that they're usually built from the ground up to be addictive, and do the whole carrot and stick routine (in order to retain subscribers, as has been pointed out). But when you take away the stick... you realize just how same-y a lot of the game is, and boredom can set in pretty quick, especially when you can max out a brand new character within a day.

 

But then the devs introduce a new currency that requires time and effort and everyone gets mad >_>

 

So, I dunno. While I disagree that a "faithful vanilla live" server would be more fun to play on, I think HC may have gone a bit too far in the other direction. Maybe something in the middle would have been better, but it's probably too late for that now.

Edited January 17, 2023 by EmperorSteele
Typo

[DoctorHugh]

If I don't like the idea of farming or fast-levels to 50, I choose not to use them.

 

Every character levels his own way up, develops his contacts, turns XP off if they're about to out-level something.

 

No farming, no XP/offense/defense/survival boosts. Although I do use the 5 early prestige IOs and the free prestige powers.

 

It's irrelevant to me if other people are farming, PLing, slapping bonuses on their character or maxing IO sets. It's irrelevant to me how many other characters are maxed-out incarnated level 50+'s, or how fast they got there.

 

Does Rocket Racer care that every Avenger can wipe the floor with him? No way man. He just goes out there and races.

 

With rockets!

 

Homecoming can be as hard or as easy as you want it to be.

 

Wanting everyone else to wear a straitjacket because you have fond memories of the bughouse seems an odd position to me.

[Nyghtmaire]

2 minutes ago, DoctorHugh said:

Wanting everyone else to wear a straitjacket because you have fond memories of the bughouse seems an odd position to me.

Oh man, this (and the rest of your post) really resonates. [*grumbles* wish I said something like this]

[Oklahoman]

11 hours ago, dtj714 said:

But obviously, for those who continue to play, that's fine. Or at least acceptable.

 

Whoa, hold on there pardner. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, calls me "acceptable."

[Seed22]

12 hours ago, dtj714 said:

I lost all interest in this project after the last major patch (I27, pg 5). The continued power creep was just too, too much. But my replacement project is down atm, so I figured I would come post a comment I wanted to make back then, but didn't bother to.

 

IMHO, Homecoming has departed so far from its genesis (the live game), that it's just a "fun" server, and no longer any valid facsimile of the original. You might as well let people create insta-50s with 100 million inf. That's only a few steps removed from its current state.

 

But obviously, for those who continue to play, that's fine. Or at least acceptable. I know there are other more "purist" or "vanilla" projects out there, but unfortunately none of them has nearly the population as Homecoming. And when it comes to private servers, population is king.

 

Anywho, just my .02 inf. Curious to know what others think. If there was a "vanilla" CoH private server with Homecoming's population, would you rather play that, or this?

I wouldnt even look at a vanilla server.

 

I think a lot of people get wrapped in nostalgia, and as such misremeber the grind and overpriced shit that was the AH as “Good old days”. 
 

Also, there IS NO POWERCREEP IN A PVE GAME. Let me say that one more time: THERE. IS. NO. POWERCREEP. IN. A. PVE. GAME!

 

wish that BS would die in a fire, but to continue on, I enjoy the SG im in on Excel so im staying with HC for now. Plus, I don’t always have time to waste on CoH grind, so HC is nice to have for a more streamlined experience. At least for me.

Edited January 17, 2023 by Seed22

[High_Beam]

Pain Marty?  Try Prison.

 

For me, Homecomings alterations make the play time that I have due to work and home and other real life things more valuable.  The relative ease in moving around now compared to live makes me happy.  Comic books and cartoons do not spend time showing us the drive to the battle unless there is exposition to go with it.  Why shouldn't the game short-cut those same things.  I have mentioned before that I run an Project OuroDev server at home (i25) like it was at shutdown (for the most part) and let me tell you, I wish there was a release of Homecoming the same way because ouch.

 

Sure there are changes but fundamentally its still the same game I love.

[Player2]

"This is just a fun server now."

 

Is that supposed to be a criticism?

[roleki]

The only 'difficulty' associated with CoH has ever been due to QoL issues.  It's fancy rock-paper-scissors, it's not Kerbal Space Program or FTL.  I'll never understand people who have  nostalgia for level-gated mechanics and forced cooperation, and frankly, I don't want to understand them.  

 

And while I may disagree with certain aspects of development and direction on HC, that doesn't preclude me from acknowledging that their version of the game is functionally superior to the few other rogue CoX servers that I've tried, and infinitely more playable than Live was at any point, full stop. 

 

And honestly, using the word "fun" as a derogatory term to describe a GAME server seems a refined form of rhetorical self-dick-shooting.

[Astralock]

Not every City of Heroes server is for everyone, including Homecoming.  Certain recent developments (both with Page 5 and personal), have had me playing more on other servers recently.  I've found one which is a better fit for me, personally.  It helps that I dislike large, populated servers and much prefer small, less populated servers.  More social, and less of a groupthink mentality.  If you aren't happy with Homecoming, then I suggest trying another City of Heroes server.  There are plenty of options.  Rebirth, Thunderspy, New Dawn, Victory, Purrgatory, Asmodei, among others.

 

Then there are others that Homecoming is best for, and that's fine too.

[Troo]

A serious self assessment by Homecoming isn't likely.

There's good and bad. The good outweighs the bad quite significantly resulting in a playable community server that we get to participate in just by showing up.

 

Are there some changes I disagree with or dislike? Sure.

Could things be better? Always.

BUT players are not having to fend off all the malicious internet system administration requirements simply to keep this hobby chugging along while dealing with vocal community criticisms that run the gamut of social justice to measuring server ticks and the impacts there in on balanced game play. (see my sig)

 

When I've spoken up, I feel I've been heard. That's all I think I can reasonably ask.

 

So, @dtj714 good luck with that replacement project. I never had much luck finding a troo replacement and feel lucky to have any version of CoX to spend a little time with.

 

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by Troo

[Gulbasaur]

15 hours ago, dtj714 said:

If there was a "vanilla" CoH private server with Homecoming's population, would you rather play that, or this?

While I don't unilaterally agree with every choice HC have made... no. 

 

I think tankers and sentinels are now a tough too powerful compared with brutes and blasters and I wish alignment changes weren't instant and seagull-operated. I don't think everything with a clicky should be soloable, though I do understand why it is. I preferred the old flight powers where Fly and Hover cancelled each other out. 

 

I stopped playing Live in around Issue 8 or 9, maybe. For me, IO sets were new. Alignment changes were new. Incarnates were new. VEATs... maybe? I can't remember, but I want to say they were new. Salvage might have been around when I left, power customisation was a way off and I'm pretty sure Ouroborous and Flashbacks had been announced but did not yet exist. Force fields were an in-demand powerset and kheldians were respected as tanks. I miss having to change monorail lines and the slower travel generally. I think IO set bonuses are completely unbalanced.  

Everyone has their "the perfect period in the game was XYZ" idea. HC's stuff is mostly very good. 

[Ruin Mage]

15 hours ago, dtj714 said:

If there was a "vanilla" CoH private server with Homecoming's population, would you rather play that, or this?

I'd rather play Homecoming, not some hypothetical Vanilla Server.

Vanilla/Live CoH was a tragic mess by the end and it was only going to be messier.

[Player2]

1 hour ago, Krimson said:

Once you are slotted, it's a fancy version of Miku Miku Dance. It's a rhythm game, and your song is your attack chain. 

I have yet to name the song of my symphony controller's attack chain.