The ATs I want to team with and why

[DougGraves]

There are a lot of ATs.  When I join a team I am excited to see some of them and not others.  (I'm most excited when I join a team and get leadership buffs because I know those players think about teaming).  Note that I play mostly dominators.  

 

Here is my list - what does yours look like?

 

Top Tier

 

Tanker - The biggest benefit to a tanker on a team is that they keep the teaming moving and generally together.  Too many teams without a tanker stand around looking at a spawn until some blaster opens up and gets destroyed by the alpha.  And while brutes can tank, players with tankers usually have more of a team oriented approach.  But more than 2 tankers and I wish we had something else instead.

 

Controller - They support and control.  The best addition to a team.  But more than 2 and the extra control is wasted.

 

Defender - Almost as good as a controller due to the support.  And I am never sad to see a defender.

 

Corruptor - A bit below defender.  It's not that the support is that much weaker, it is that they are usually are less team oriented than defenders.  But I am never sad to see a corruptor.

 

Mastermind - This should be higher as MMs can tank and support, but I find few MMs tank.  So this is just below a defender.  And too many MMs are annoying just because of all the pets getting in the way.

 

Stalker - I used to lump stalkers in with "other" but their ability to take out bosses quickly has won me over.  AoE is so common the minions and lt's tend to go down quickly, leaving a drag out fight against bosses.  And some bosses are painful.  But stalkers change the game, taking out the bosses quickly.  So stalker is the one damage AT I am happy to see.

 

Second Tier

 

Brute - if we don't have a tanker, but only if we don't have a tanker.  Otherwise they are just damage.

 

PB/WS - if we don't have a tanker, but only if we don't have a tanker.  Otherwise they are just damage.  And frankly I don't know the difference between PB and WS.

 

Soldier/Widow - by mid levels the team buffs are nice.  At lower levels they are just damage.

 

Dominator - If we don't have controllers and if there are no more than 2 of them.  

 

Bottom Tier

 

Blaster - just damage

 

Scrapper - just damage 

 

Sentinel - just damage

 

[Snarky]

Interesting.   I heard it said among a few people I know are great players that 8 Corruptors can take out any content in the game.  Blasters bottom tier?   I kind of get what you are saying but then realize you are not talking about things like Really Hard Way Magisterium.  Damage is “just damage” until your team is low on damage.   Then it is an emergency.  You know your odds for a really hard way go way up when there is a ton of Blasters and Corruptors on the league. Brute/Tanker I get what you are saying.  But it depends on the powersets and the player more than the AT there in my opinion 

 

When I run PUGs I take whatever.  But dream team?  1 Tank 7 Corruptors.  In a League. Add another 1/2 Tanker types, Fender, Troller and some Blasters then w/e

[wolfshadow31]

I'm not arguing about your choices, its your list and you can make what you like.  But your perception is very skewed, as you said before you dont really play much after level 19 much, or rarely up until even level 29.  Scrappers  and blasters, besides being damage also have a lot of control type effects in their primary and secondary powersets that you probably just aren't seeing because they get unlocked later than the levels you've chosen to only play at.  They have those abilities to keep themselves alive when not on a team, but the abilities still exist and can be used while teaming.  My main is a MA/SR scrapper, and I got stuns, aoe knockback(down) etc.  And you know what enemies arent doing when they are falling around like ragdolls, or being stunned?...they arent dishing out damage to your team members.  So you are basing your list on low level experience with archetypes which don't have their full arsenal of abilities unlocked yet, which isnt representative of their true archetype potential.  

 

 

[StrikerFox]

I've never had more fun than running with a full teams of MMs or full team of Stalkers. I enjoy seeing a massive armada of pets converging on a group of enemies. Back during live, I was in an all Stalker SG. It was pretty quick, stealth in, AS, couple hits, on to the next group and repeat. 

 

If there are any all MM or Stalker SGs out there, hit me up. I'll gladly join.

[ZemX]

3 hours ago, DougGraves said:

And while brutes can tank, players with tankers usually have more of a team oriented approach.  But more than 2 tankers and I wish we had something else instead.

 

1 tanker is a tanker.  2 tankers is a tag team.  Three is an XP bucket brigade of herding.  Eight tankers...

 

...is a Tuesday. 😈

 

[Erratic1]

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

Damage is “just damage” until your team is low on damage.

 

I was recently in a group facing an AV where there just was not enough damage to take the guy down while retaining sufficient resources to keep everyone standing and using powers. 

 

Evidentially we should have controlled or tanked it to death.

[biostem]

5 hours ago, DougGraves said:

Here is my list - what does yours look like?

I don't really have a list, per se.  It's simply a matter of having "enough" of any given aspect.  For instance, you don't need a tanker if you have enough buffs/debuffs and those with them are proactive or responsive enough.  You don't need a huge amount of raw damage if you can drop an enemy's damage resistance enough.  You don't need a lot of buffs/debuffs if you can sufficiently control the enemies.  The problem is that many people often play on PUGs, where there is little communication and everyone is basically soloing in the same instance.  Anytime I see these kinds of posts, my first inclination is to ask if you took the time to talk to your teammates, examine your team composition, and derive a strategy that used those resources to their greatest extent...

[DougGraves]

1 hour ago, Erratic1 said:

Evidentially we should have controlled or tanked it to death.

 

No, you should have debuffed it or buffed your damage.  

[Erratic1]

5 minutes ago, DougGraves said:

 

No, you should have debuffed it or buffed your damage.  

 

You mean like having people who just do (superior) damage to begin with?

[Xiddo]

The first few fights in most teams (but all PuGs) are always just “let’s establish who is the most capable of taking the alpha”. I play a lot of pugs on my exemp’d kheldians, there are rarely levelling tanks who have the same survivability, so I try and take the hit at roughly the same time. If there’s no tank/kheldian then I want a dominator or controller.

I know people love them - and it’s probably a similar thought process to Kheldians - but there are more bad MMs than good. I’m sorry but I am always going to want a corr or defender over an MM. I think for the standard player - without the binds etc - there’s just a bit too much going on. I think it’s the ATs fault not the player.

If a team has at least 1 SoA I know we’re gonna be fine.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Xiddo

[Yomo Kimyata]

Six Rikti monkeys and one person with Vengeance and me.  Perfect team.

[biostem]

35 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

You mean like having people who just do (superior) damage to begin with?

Or by dropping the enemies' DR via debuffs.  "Superior damage" vs an enemy with high DR is basically the same as "lesser damage" vs an enemy with a bunch of -DR on them...

[Erratic1]

41 minutes ago, biostem said:

Or by dropping the enemies' DR via debuffs.  "Superior damage" vs an enemy with high DR is basically the same as "lesser damage" vs an enemy with a bunch of -DR on them...

 

The person with the superior damage will in the presence of -DR still be doing more damage than the person who started with lesser damage.

 

Yes, an all-Defender team is a wonderful thing. Been there, done that. There is still something to be said for the "just damage" ATs who also tend to have not only higher damage scalars but higher damage caps as well. And that before you even get into the fact that with the  damage primary ATs most of what will be occupying their time will be dealing damage, not trying to keep people alive, buffed, sustaining pets, etc.

 

[ninja surprise]

7 hours ago, DougGraves said:

Controller - They support and control.  The best addition to a team.  But more than 2 and the extra control is wasted.

 

 

That might be true if both Controllers were Earth, but Controllers get double-damage on "contained" mobs.  And more Controllers means more stacked holds on Bosses to actually hold them. Plus the stacked buffs and debuffs from multiple secondaries.  You don't even need a Tank if you have a plethora of Controllers. 

Plus, Controllers have the largest AoEs so they immobilize and defeat fat spawns super fast. It's a blast!

[biostem]

7 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

The person with the superior damage will in the presence of -DR still be doing more damage than the person who started with lesser damage.

And the superior damage people will do nothing if they faceplant because they can't handle the aggro or incoming damage.  We can cherry-pick scenarios all day, but my point still stands: -DR + mediocre damage = no -DR and superior damage.

[TheZag]

10 hours ago, DougGraves said:

Sentinel - just damage

 

Ive done something different with my electric blast sentinel,  i beefed up his recharge and endurance drain.  The tier 9 already has half damage and half the recharge but its end drain is still 'full strength'.  With 2 end drain AoE attacks on relatively short cooldowns he can drain most enemies most of the time.  Its almost like having a controller but the enemies can still move around and just dont fight back.

 

[Snarky]

53 minutes ago, TheZag said:

 

Ive done something different with my electric blast sentinel,  i beefed up his recharge and endurance drain.  The tier 9 already has half damage and half the recharge but its end drain is still 'full strength'.  With 2 end drain AoE attacks on relatively short cooldowns he can drain most enemies most of the time.  Its almost like having a controller but the enemies can still move around and just dont fight back.

 

I have an elec sentinel all done up like a Mu.  Magus Mu’Snarky.  As close as i could get to the look. I dont care for the combat style but i definitely saw the potential.  Have fun!

Edited February 8, 2023 by Snarky

[Seed22]

21 hours ago, DougGraves said:

There are a lot of ATs.  When I join a team I am excited to see some of them and not others.  (I'm most excited when I join a team and get leadership buffs because I know those players think about teaming).  Note that I play mostly dominators.  

 

Here is my list - what does yours look like?

 

Top Tier

 

Tanker - The biggest benefit to a tanker on a team is that they keep the teaming moving and generally together.  Too many teams without a tanker stand around looking at a spawn until some blaster opens up and gets destroyed by the alpha.  And while brutes can tank, players with tankers usually have more of a team oriented approach.  But more than 2 tankers and I wish we had something else instead.

 

Controller - They support and control.  The best addition to a team.  But more than 2 and the extra control is wasted.

 

Defender - Almost as good as a controller due to the support.  And I am never sad to see a defender.

 

Corruptor - A bit below defender.  It's not that the support is that much weaker, it is that they are usually are less team oriented than defenders.  But I am never sad to see a corruptor.

 

Mastermind - This should be higher as MMs can tank and support, but I find few MMs tank.  So this is just below a defender.  And too many MMs are annoying just because of all the pets getting in the way.

 

Stalker - I used to lump stalkers in with "other" but their ability to take out bosses quickly has won me over.  AoE is so common the minions and lt's tend to go down quickly, leaving a drag out fight against bosses.  And some bosses are painful.  But stalkers change the game, taking out the bosses quickly.  So stalker is the one damage AT I am happy to see.

 

Second Tier

 

Brute - if we don't have a tanker, but only if we don't have a tanker.  Otherwise they are just damage.

 

PB/WS - if we don't have a tanker, but only if we don't have a tanker.  Otherwise they are just damage.  And frankly I don't know the difference between PB and WS.

 

Soldier/Widow - by mid levels the team buffs are nice.  At lower levels they are just damage.

 

Dominator - If we don't have controllers and if there are no more than 2 of them.  

 

Bottom Tier

 

Blaster - just damage

 

Scrapper - just damage 

 

Sentinel - just damage

 

This seems like a ‘09 lineup team. 
 

back when SOs were the thing. 

[Seed22]

21 hours ago, DougGraves said:

Here is my list - what does yours look like?

Grab IO’s. That’s my list. I tank on every AT, one because I don’t wanna sit and wait for folks with SOs to commit unalive, and two because I wanna see if there’s an AT I can’t tank/do superior damage/whatever else the AT does. 
 

Turns out the only AT I can’t do this with is MM. too slow and dependent on pets, but I’ve seen some impressive MMs!

[Seed22]

14 hours ago, biostem said:

And the superior damage people will do nothing if they faceplant because they can't handle the aggro or incoming damage.  We can cherry-pick scenarios all day, but my point still stands: -DR + mediocre damage = no -DR and superior damage.

Hmm…so what you’re saying is mediocre damage and a lil -DR is equal to superior damage and no -DR?  We talkin SOs or IOs?

Edited February 8, 2023 by Seed22

[Erratic1]

11 hours ago, TheZag said:

 

Ive done something different with my electric blast sentinel,  i beefed up his recharge and endurance drain.  The tier 9 already has half damage and half the recharge but its end drain is still 'full strength'.  With 2 end drain AoE attacks on relatively short cooldowns he can drain most enemies most of the time.  Its almost like having a controller but the enemies can still move around and just dont fight back.

 

 

If the sentinel has his defenses/resistances in place then, while they are no Tanker replacement, they can act as a control rod for aggro by grabbing what they can and thereby reducing the load on the main tanker. Also they can serve to distract aggro from squishier targets.

[Erratic1]

14 hours ago, biostem said:

And the superior damage people will do nothing if they faceplant because they can't handle the aggro or incoming damage.  We can cherry-pick scenarios all day, but my point still stands: -DR + mediocre damage = no -DR and superior damage.

 

They are on a team. What was the point of the Tanker? The Controller? 

 

Your scenario seems to presume superior damage people running solo. As kindly as I can put it, that does not really seem to accord with the thread topic's presumption.  Perhaps you should be in less of a rush to be disagreeable?

[Seed22]

2 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

They are on a team. What was the point of the Tanker? The Controller? 

 

Your scenario seems to presume superior damage people running solo. As kindly as I can put it, that does not really seem to accord with the thread topic's presumption.  Perhaps you should be in less of a rush to be disagreeable?

This.

 

I mean before the scorp shield nerf, my Ice/Fire was superior damage AND defense. She tanked a +2 reich with TWO brutes trying to peel his aggro [Melee Radial is great, really lol]. Maybe on SOs this is a thing but if IOs are in play lol sit there and hold my beer

[Uun]

I don't care about the AT. I don't care about the build (anybody can copy a build). I care about who is behind the controls. 

[Snarky]

9 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

Grab IO’s. That’s my list. I tank on every AT, one because I don’t wanna sit and wait for folks with SOs to commit unalive, and two because I wanna see if there’s an AT I can’t tank/do superior damage/whatever else the AT does. 
 

Turns out the only AT I can’t do this with is MM. too slow and dependent on pets, but I’ve seen some impressive MMs!

This is funny.  Back in the dawn of Redside.....The Devs envisioned MMs as the Redside Tank.  Redside teams quickly determined the damn things were too slow to do the job.  Especially when Brute players were charging the mobs.  (Fury mechanic was way different then, there was a definite reward for cannonballing fresh spawns in +++damage)