Free Travel Power Pick

[Itashu]

Hello all!

 

I have an idea for Travel Powers.  I believe players should get a free Travel Power pick at level 8, and it shouldn't lock you in to the respective Power Pool (but still count as a power pick.)  For example, picking Super Jump as your free Travel Power at 8, doesn't mean you're locked in to the Leaping Pool.  However, it counts as a pick for the purposes of, say, Acrobatics, so taking another power in the pool DOES lock you in.

 

This way, players can pick the Travel Power they want to have, and have that pick be separate than their basic defense/mobility picks.  

 

The locking in problem is important.  I feel like often, Hasten is picked, locking you into the Speed Pool.  Then people recommend Leadership.  Then people recommend Leaping, so you can take Combat Jumping for basic mobility during combat.  Then, people say you should take Fighting, so you can use Tough and Weave as mules/for Defense or Resistance.

 

I understand those choices aren't necessities, and people are still free to pick whatever they want as Power Pools - that is the point.  But I often find myself taking a Travel Power I don't find suitable for a character because it doesn't make sense to lock in a whole different Power Pool and would eat into my choices.

 

Let me know your thoughts on this, players and devs!

 

[Doc_Scorpion]

37 minutes ago, Itashu said:

But I often find myself taking a Travel Power I don't find suitable for a character because it doesn't make sense to lock in a whole different Power Pool and would eat into my choices.

If you don't like a particular travel power, then don't choose that particular travel power.  It's as simple as that, make your own choice based on what you value more.  As you said, you're free to pick whatever you want.

Or, more simply, jranger.

[Greycat]

No.

 

You want a travel "power" without locking into a pool? The Athletic/Ninja/Beast runs are free. Jetpacks are cheap. There, travel with no power pool, and either no further investment or a very rare need to purchase more time (which on the basic jetpack is cheap.)

 

We don't need more "give me everything with no need to actually have to make decisions or tradeoffs." Having to actually *make choices with consequences* isn't a bad thing.

[Rudra]

3 hours ago, Itashu said:

This way, players can pick the Travel Power they want to have, and have that pick be separate than their basic defense/mobility picks.  

Here is what I don't understand: What makes your travel power (which increases your character's mobility via teleport, running, flight, or leaping) different than your basic mobility pick?

 

In the end, what this boils down to is: power creep is power creep. If you want a travel power, get it. Don't let others tell you what pool powers you have to take.

 

Edit: This thread is just another "Let me take more powers from pools without having to give up the Holy Quad of pools." So of course it is going to be opposed.

 

Edit again:

Here's some advice on combat mobility so you don't feel confined to those choices:

 

Hover: Gives you the same defence as Combat Jumping but at a slightly higher END cost. And you can hover up out of everyone's reach. Great for ranged characters.

 

Flight: You suffer a speed penalty if you attempt to fly out of combat, a really bad one, but you can fly up out of reach if things start to look bad. Also good for covering lots of ground quickly. Also can be used with Hover now so you can get the flight control of Hover and the speed of Fly at the same time!

 

Teleport: You want to get out of there fast? Or you want to reach some place you can't jump to while you lack flight? Teleport gets you there! Even better? It has no speed penalties because you directly move there without needing to cross the space in between. And with one or two enhancements (and a quick teleport target-click skill)? You can cross those annoyingly large zones faster than most anyone else can dream of. (Also includes short duration Hover so you can check where you want to teleport to next without falling.)

 

Super Speed: Gives a small boost to leaping actually! And it suffers no speed penalties coming out of combat, so you can just hop over your foes and zip on out of there. And if you took Hasten? You already have the pool as one of your choices. Win-win.

 

Origin pool travels: see closest travel power listed above. Except they include some form of teleport as a popup power to boot.

 

See? You don't need to lock yourself into Combat Jumping for combat mobility. So just take the travel power you want. Or grab one of the free ones @Greycat mentioned from P2W.

Edited February 9, 2023 by Rudra

[UltraAlt]

5 hours ago, Itashu said:

Let me know your thoughts on this, players and devs!

 

It used to take even longer to get travel powers.

 

Honestly, at this point, I get a a free P2W run power and a P2W flight power (which costs inf) when I first make a character. Sometimes those are the only travel powers my characters have as they level up.

 

You can also get upto a 2 hours charge on a raptor pack by parking in the Shadow Shard, getting the dayjob there, and letting the pack charge for about 4 days.

 

You can also get a flight pack by doing Posi 2.

 

 

You can also yell out in game for some loot to get a flight pack. They don't cost that much for many of us and some of us are willing to help out.

[Luminara]

6 hours ago, Itashu said:

The locking in problem is important.

 

That's right, it is important.  Limitations, such as being locked into a pool when we select a power, are what allow developers to create content which is accessible to the widest range of builds, and therefore, players.  It's a fundamental aspect of balance, and not the balance between archetypes, or the balance between individual powers, but the balance that makes the game playable for everyone.  Restricting everyone to four power pools, and every power in those pools counting toward that restriction, is part of that balance in this game.

[SeraphimKensai]

@Itashu I have you covered just roll a Kheldian. Both Peacebringers and Warshades get free inherent travel powers that don't lock you into a power pool so you're free to choose those as you want.

 

As for the rest of the ATs I wouldn't want them to encroach onto one of the unique aspects of Kheldians. It used to be a magical feeling to roll a Peacebringer and fly at lvl 1 or a Warshades and TP at lvl 1, back when travel powers didn't open up until lvl 14. 

[0th Power]

26 minutes ago, SeraphimKensai said:

@Itashu I have you covered just roll a Kheldian. Both Peacebringers and Warshades get free inherent travel powers that don't lock you into a power pool so you're free to choose those as you want.

 

As for the rest of the ATs I wouldn't want them to encroach onto one of the unique aspects of Kheldians. It used to be a magical feeling to roll a Peacebringer and fly at lvl 1 or a Warshades and TP at lvl 1, back when travel powers didn't open up until lvl 14. 

dont forget, kinetics gets "free" superspeed and super jump

[SeraphimKensai]

48 minutes ago, 0th Power said:

dont forget, kinetics gets "free" superspeed and super jump

Touche.

[biostem]

I read proposals like this, and what it sounds like to me is "I want a travel power, but I don't want to use up a power pick or pool selection in taking one".  There are already ways of getting modes of travel without using up a power pick - park your character in Firebase Zulu, when not playing them, for instance...

Edited February 11, 2023 by biostem

[Itashu]

There's definitely a lot of great points here.  As I'm not a game designer, I wasn't looking at as much from a game balance perspective, as a greedy player's perspective, if you read these posts xD.

 

I agree that it would cause imbalance.  With the advent of the various Origin pools, there are more interesting Travel Pools to pick that offer their various options to diversify gameplay, such as Rune of Protection from Sorcery or Adrenal Booster from Experimentation.  I hope HC continues to expand upon those.

 

Scratching the Travel Power not locking you in to a Power Pool, I do wonder how negative the effects of a free Travel Power at 8 are.  I understand how that might negatively effect Power requirements for the Pools.  If that would require a re-work too, then perhaps it isn't worth it.

 

There are indeed many options provided to players as temporary travel powers during play.  Honestly, I still always pick my travel power at 14, out of a weird sense of solidarity, and use Athletic Run till then (perhaps a jetpack or two if I have it).

 

However, I also believe in a strong theme for my characters.  The magic man most likely isn't gong to use a jetpack.  The astronaut is unlikely to float around on an energy disc.  And yeah, if I'm too cheap for a travel power, why not use these free options?  I get it.

 

Perhaps the other solution would be more visual styles for the bought/earned travel powers.  The Flying Disc could get magic symbols floating around it in the costume editor.  The jetpacks can get the color of their jets edited, maybe the color of the jetpack.  Beyond that, more takes on them.  Springboots that give you clunky big boots that allow for lesser Super Jump(Cosmic Corsair Boots come to mind as big boots, alternatively, the Piston Boots).  

 

I still think having them visually distinct from the actual Pools is important - helps the player base ascribe value to Travel Powers.  If you do want your character to look like they didn't need to rely on external means to travel, then perhaps you should invest in it.  I'll be looking into how imbalanced one free pick would upset the Travel Pools, but I'm on vacation soon.  Let me know if you see any Pools in particular that would be broken or give you an significant advantage with one free pick.  Again, interested to hear the discussion.  Thanks for keeping things civil, everybody.  Appreciate the thoughts on the subject.

[Rudra]

19 minutes ago, Itashu said:

I do wonder how negative the effects of a free Travel Power at 8 are. 

Same problem/consideration: It is a request for an extra power so as to not have to pick one. So it gets the same arguments. There are already free powers and cheap powers that don't require a power slot. Take one of those. No free powers from any of the pools. (Edit: It is a question of power creep. If you want a pool travel power, you have to choose it with a power slot. Otherwise, all you are doing is asking to be able to get another power to make your character more efficient/powerful while still getting your travel power. And players like me are very much opposed to any more power creep in the game.)

 

19 minutes ago, Itashu said:

Perhaps the other solution would be more visual styles for the bought/earned travel powers.

More options won't get anyone complaining. And others are also asking for the same thing.

 

19 minutes ago, Itashu said:

Springboots that give you clunky big boots that allow for lesser Super Jump(Cosmic Corsair Boots come to mind as big boots, alternatively, the Piston Boots).  

Not sure how to read this part. If the request is for costume pieces to grant powers? Then no. The game is not based on equipment and I would rather it stayed that way. If however you are asking for options for visuals of "temp power" travels such as Beast Run, Athletic Run, and Ninja Run? That would be fine.

Edited February 11, 2023 by Rudra

[biostem]

35 minutes ago, Itashu said:

Perhaps the other solution would be more visual styles for the bought/earned travel powers.

The game already has some ability to detect if you're flying or jumping, so I wonder how difficult it would be to add a category of "travel power auras", which could satisfy many such desires.

 

37 minutes ago, Itashu said:

I do wonder how negative the effects of a free Travel Power at 8 are.

A large percent of players take some form of travel power.  What this would do is give everybody another free power pick.  It may not sound like a lot, but people already tweak their builds to the Nth degree, trying to fit in everything they want.  Having to make such sacrifices and finding just the right balance is one of the few really weighty things left in CoH, please don't diminish it further!

 

40 minutes ago, Itashu said:

The magic man most likely isn't gong to use a jetpack.

If the jetpack looked like some arcane artifact or something similarly mystical, why not?  Heck, I'm sure some clever mage could use an existing jetpack and modify the fuel source to be some magical crystal or a lesser fire elemental.

 

42 minutes ago, Itashu said:

The astronaut is unlikely to float around on an energy disc.

Hard light constructs!  They're not just from power rings anymore!

[Akisan]

4 hours ago, Rudra said:

 

4 hours ago, Itashu said:

Springboots that give you clunky big boots that allow for lesser Super Jump(Cosmic Corsair Boots come to mind as big boots, alternatively, the Piston Boots).  

Not sure how to read this part. If the request is for costume pieces to grant powers? Then no. The game is not based on equipment and I would rather it stayed that way. If however you are asking for options for visuals of "temp power" travels such as Beast Run, Athletic Run, and Ninja Run? That would be fine.

 

Pretty sure the request is that the temporary travel powers can be adjusted at the Tailor/Facemaker. I'm totally fine with that, because it keeps the alternative (make a bunch of different-looking, functionally identical travel powers) from being introduced.

 

4 hours ago, Itashu said:

Scratching the Travel Power not locking you in to a Power Pool, I do wonder how negative the effects of a free Travel Power at 8 are.  I understand how that might negatively effect Power requirements for the Pools.  If that would require a re-work too, then perhaps it isn't worth it.

 

Besides freeing up a power pick, there's sets that can be slotted in those (and other utility benefits, like free Stealth from Super Speed).  I'd be ok with being able to select a permanent version of the temporary movement powers, provided it was also unenhancable. After all, those powers are available at level 1 (the jetpack for free even, if you're willing to chill in the Shadow Shard for a few days). This permanent version would likely be easier to make editable at the tailor, as I'm betting making temp powers customizable would open a whole new can of worms.

 

On 2/8/2023 at 9:46 PM, Itashu said:

The locking in problem is important.  I feel like often, Hasten is picked, locking you into the Speed Pool.  Then people recommend Leadership.  Then people recommend Leaping, so you can take Combat Jumping for basic mobility during combat.  Then, people say you should take Fighting, so you can use Tough and Weave as mules/for Defense or Resistance.

 

I understand those choices aren't necessities, and people are still free to pick whatever they want as Power Pools - that is the point.  But I often find myself taking a Travel Power I don't find suitable for a character because it doesn't make sense to lock in a whole different Power Pool and would eat into my choices.

 

As an aside - I always felt that being forced into Super Speed was designed to be one of the costs of Hasten - since Hasten is so powerful, and Super Speed isn't given any vertical movement, and so is the hardest travel power to get around the city with. It's one of the reasons I don't take Hasten, unless I have a free pool after taking the travel power I want. (alternately, one could see Hasten as the benefit for taking Super Speed as a travel power)

 

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by Akisan
Cleaned up and clarified reasoning in aside

[Itashu]

 

Being able to modify their appearance, like @biostem mentioned with an arcane artifact Jet Pack, would definitely benefit player agency.  I know as of now they have many of these options in the costume creator as costume pieces, such as the Gold Bricker jet pack and the Longbow jet pack, but it wouldn't really change the game if you could change the appearances of your temporary powers.  @Rudra Like Akisan mentioned, I was describing changing the look of temporary travel powers in the costume editor.  Zero-G Pack is the only Super Jump-lite Travel Power, IIRC, it'd be nice to have other visual options.

 

@Akisan I do like that premise.  Permanently chosen bought/earned travel powers.  I know the Void Skiff and the Rocket Board can be bought permanently, but Jet Packs for sale would be neat.  The other thing I'd request is that Void Skiff and Rocket Board allow power use, but I believe that's actually an animation issue.  They both use the 'sliding' stance, which doesn't support power animations, since the 'combat' stance is different.

 

Perhaps after enough Safeguards / Mayhems, you could keep any Travels earned though them permanently.  Five or so? Being able to buy them as a forever travel power works too.

 

I also agree about Hasten.  It's a power pick meant to lock you into a Pool you might not pick a single other thing in.  But others probably disagree - seems like Super Speed can be useful, for, well, speeding through TFs or slog arcs.  Not my personal favorite, but that's what CoH is about, player agency 🙂  We pick what we like!

 

One more thought: Should there be an inherent +Fly "Fitness" Power, earned alongside Swift and Hurdle?  "Flight Potential" or something similar for the name?  Heh, or maybe "Aerodynamics".

[JasperStone]

49 minutes ago, Itashu said:

 

Being able to modify their appearance, like @biostem mentioned with an arcane artifact Jet Pack, would definitely benefit player agency.  I know as of now they have many of these options in the costume creator as costume pieces, such as the Gold Bricker jet pack and the Longbow jet pack, but it wouldn't really change the game if you could change the appearances of your temporary powers.  @Rudra Like Akisan mentioned, I was describing changing the look of temporary travel powers in the costume editor.  Zero-G Pack is the only Super Jump-lite Travel Power, IIRC, it'd be nice to have other visual options.

 

@Akisan I do like that premise.  Permanently chosen bought/earned travel powers.  I know the Void Skiff and the Rocket Board can be bought permanently, but Jet Packs for sale would be neat.  The other thing I'd request is that Void Skiff and Rocket Board allow power use, but I believe that's actually an animation issue.  They both use the 'sliding' stance, which doesn't support power animations, since the 'combat' stance is different.

 

Perhaps after enough Safeguards / Mayhems, you could keep any Travels earned though them permanently.  Five or so? Being able to buy them as a forever travel power works too.

 

I also agree about Hasten.  It's a power pick meant to lock you into a Pool you might not pick a single other thing in.  But others probably disagree - seems like Super Speed can be useful, for, well, speeding through TFs or slog arcs.  Not my personal favorite, but that's what CoH is about, player agency 🙂  We pick what we like!

 

One more thought: Should there be an inherent +Fly "Fitness" Power, earned alongside Swift and Hurdle?  "Flight Potential" or something similar for the name?  Heh, or maybe "Aerodynamics".

Can you expand your thoughts here?

 

[A.I.D.A.]

Swift already has a fly speed component, and can take basic fly speed IOs.

[Rudra]

4 hours ago, Akisan said:

and Super Speed isn't given any vertical movement

[MagExpr]% JumpHeight (self only) for 0.75s

Magnitude Expression: 2.78 * source.ownPowerNum?(Redirects.Pool_Speed.Super_Speed_Momentum)

 

[MagExpr]% JumpingSpeed (self only) for 0.75s

Magnitude Expression: 0.187 * source.ownPowerNum?(Redirects.Pool_Speed.Super_Speed_Momentum)

 

That's from Super Speed. It does give vertical movement, just not as much as players are likely to notice.

[Itashu]

@Aida LaCanthe Oh, my bad, didn't realize that.  Thank you!

[JasperStone]

21 hours ago, Rudra said:

[MagExpr]% JumpHeight (self only) for 0.75s

Magnitude Expression: 2.78 * source.ownPowerNum?(Redirects.Pool_Speed.Super_Speed_Momentum)

 

[MagExpr]% JumpingSpeed (self only) for 0.75s

Magnitude Expression: 0.187 * source.ownPowerNum?(Redirects.Pool_Speed.Super_Speed_Momentum)

 

That's from Super Speed. It does give vertical movement, just not as much as players are likely to notice.

Drifting was added in a previous issue.

It is SO FUN!

[MHertz]

I want them to go back to when travel powers were used to get you from one mission to another, not for speeding through Pocket D to get from your AE farming station to the trainer and back. Travel powers used to mean something, dang it.

 

Asking for free travel powers so you can further min-max your build? Meh, it’s not a priority. Might as well ask for a Farming power pool, containing one toggle that does Maneuvers + Tough + Weave + Hasten. It’s about as likely to happen.

Edited February 16, 2023 by MHertz

[Oubliette_Red]

On 2/9/2023 at 3:52 AM, UltraAlt said:

 

It used to take even longer to get travel powers.

 

 

Back during Legacy, it used to be a pride point for me to gather the exploration badge in The Hallows with nothing but Sprint.

 

[golstat2003]

2 hours ago, Oubliette_Red said:

 

Back during Legacy, it used to be a pride point for me to gather the exploration badge in The Hallows with nothing but Sprint.

 

The Hallows trained me for how to get around without around without aggroing things. Good times back in the day lol

[Oubliette_Red]

13 hours ago, golstat2003 said:

The Hallows trained me for how to get around without around without aggroing things. Good times back in the day lol

 

I called it "threading the needle". lol

 

And to wax poetic about another "travel power", my first ever character back on Legacy was a Kin/Arch that used IR quite extensively for her travel power. The one thing I got a kick out of was back in the days of Mentoring, whilst hanging around she would hit IR and just leap straight up and I'd see "You are out of the range of your sidekick." in chat when she'd get near the apex of her jump.

 

[biostem]

19 hours ago, golstat2003 said:

The Hallows trained me for how to get around without around without aggroing things. Good times back in the day lol

I remember running around under the canopy of Perez Park, with only hover and sprint, desperately trying to find an opening so I could get away from all the CoT.  I also recall many "normal person" builds that solely used combat jumping and hurdle, (when fitness still required using power picks).