Proc rates

[hakurr]

Is there a list that tells what the proc rate of individual powers are?

Edited March 13, 2023 by hakurr

[Nyghtmaire]

Individual powers? Not exactly sure what you mean. Here is a database of power effects.

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/index.html

 

If you’re referring to invention procs, you can find those on the same site. Here is a quick/dirty list.

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Enhancement_Sets

[hakurr]

i think i just asked the wrong question. i have read threads were someone says this enhancement will proc more often if you put it in this power verse that one. i was wanting to know is there a list that shows how often an enhancement will proc in different powers?

[twozerofoxtrot]

There isn't a list but @Bopper* has authored a thread on how to calculate the frequency based on power.

 

He also developed a spreadsheet to provide those calculations but I don't want to share that without express permission. 

 

 

*apologies for the ping

 

[Bopper]

17 minutes ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

There isn't a list but @Bopper* has authored a thread on how to calculate the frequency based on power.

 

He also developed a spreadsheet to provide those calculations but I don't want to share that without express permission. 

 

 

*apologies for the ping

 

The link is in my signature. You're welcome to link to it any time.

 

The link:  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WOF57R0Q-S1hG8YXW_Z2GokbcN1Zj2Zwvz9lDz8D0xw/copy

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Bopper

[twozerofoxtrot]

Haha, that's what I get for turning signatures off on my phone!

[Sir Myshkin]

1 hour ago, hakurr said:

i think i just asked the wrong question. i have read threads were someone says this enhancement will proc more often if you put it in this power verse that one. i was wanting to know is there a list that shows how often an enhancement will proc in different powers?

It isn't terribly difficult to get a feel for the way the system works after reading through the why of things. Each proc has what's called a PPM value that is used to calculate its chances of firing off and they range from 1 to 5. Recharge is the other half of the equation for most powers until you get to AoE based ones, then the Cone or Radius gets added in, and then whether or not a power is a toggle also adds a determining factor.

 

Short list: If the power recharges 0-15 seconds, low chance. If it's 15-25, better chances, probably like 33%. As you get closer to 30/s, things start to chance and whether you have significant recharge enhancement in a power can technically matter, but roughly anything that started around 30/s probably is going to have a 35-50% chance of going off every time you fire the power for most procs in the 3+ PPM range. After 30/s up to 45/s you'll push into the 60% territory, and then after that it's pretty much hitting somewhere between 75%-90% cap out in those 60/s+ areas.

 

If you're using AoE's, then things are a lot simpler because body count has a bigger impact: If there's at least 4-5 things in the effect area of a cone or single-drop AoE, then you'll likely only hit one, maybe two, but often nothing. This scales up to 10 targets in the impact zone, once you get to 10+ the magic number is on and you're pretty much in the for-sure going-to-happen where a proc will go off, likely several times with an average up to half the group, but usually you'll get like 33% of the group but sometimes better. If you're using a proc like a Force Feedback +Recharge, at 10 it's a sure-fire so long as the attack itself doesn't miss any of the 10.

 

Toggles and time-based drop effects with durations have intervals of 10/s when they fire proc chances, and this effects their odds of going off a little, but essentially follow the above and you'll end up fine in most cases. The only time procs aren't full worth the investment in toggles are when it's a personal toggle (excluding Gaussian's Proc in Tactics), they don't always balance their consumption of slots to use, kind of a case-by-case basis.

[hakurr]

thank you this will help

[aethereal]

On 3/12/2023 at 10:04 PM, Sir Myshkin said:

Short list: If the power recharges 0-15 seconds, low chance. If it's 15-25, better chances, probably like 33%. As you get closer to 30/s, things start to chance and whether you have significant recharge enhancement in a power can technically matter, but roughly anything that started around 30/s probably is going to have a 35-50% chance of going off every time you fire the power for most procs in the 3+ PPM range. After 30/s up to 45/s you'll push into the 60% territory, and then after that it's pretty much hitting somewhere between 75%-90% cap out in those 60/s+ areas.

 

What?  No, this is seriously wrong.

 

With a typical damage proc (3.5 PPM), and a single target power, then if the power's cooldown including local recharge + animation time is:

 

5 seconds, proc rate is:  29%

10 seconds, proc rate is:  58%

15 seconds, proc rate is:  87.5%

Higher:  maxed out at 90%

Edited March 14, 2023 by aethereal

[MrAxe]

Based on all this can anyone maybe explain why Axe Cyclone rarely procs when I have no recharge slotted? With 3 procs vs a group of 4-6 mobs I only ever seem to get 4 to fire. Or is that what I should expect from a high recharge pbaoe?

[aethereal]

10 minutes ago, MrAxe said:

Based on all this can anyone maybe explain why Axe Cyclone rarely procs when I have no recharge slotted? With 3 procs vs a group of 4-6 mobs I only ever seem to get 4 to fire. Or is that what I should expect from a high recharge pbaoe?

 

AoE attacks get a penalty to the proc rate based on the size of their area.  Since Axe Cyclone has quite a large radius, it takes a pretty hefty penalty to rates, but I haven't done the math on it to figure out what it'd be.  It also depends on the PPM of the proc!

 

EDIT:  My spreadsheet says that the proc rate of a 3.5 PPM proc in Axe Cyclone with no local recharge should be 42.9%

Edited March 14, 2023 by aethereal

[Sir Myshkin]

3 hours ago, aethereal said:

What?  No, this is seriously wrong.

 

With a typical damage proc (3.5 PPM), and a single target power, then if the power's cooldown including local recharge + animation time is:

 

5 seconds, proc rate is:  29%

10 seconds, proc rate is:  58%

15 seconds, proc rate is:  87.5%

Higher:  maxed out at 90%

 

No it's not, I've done it long enough to just know, and you're not getting nearly 90% proc hit off of a 15/s power, especially if it has any kind of recharge enhancement in it. But since someone wants to bring math into it:

 

Spoiler

[17:01] You activated the Radiation Siphon power.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Degenerative Interface for 0 points of Toxic damage over time.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Degenerative Interface for 0 points of Toxic damage over time.
[17:01] Vali Roentgen hits you with their Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance granting you 7.5 points of endurance.
[17:01] You hit Vali Roentgen with your Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance granting them 7.5 points of endurance.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Degenerative Interface for 0 points of Toxic damage over time.
[17:01] Radiation Siphon is recharged.

[17:01] You activated the Radiation Siphon power.
[17:01] You are healed by your Radiation Siphon for 89.25 health points over time.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Radiation Siphon for 0 points of Smashing damage.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Radiation Siphon for 0 points of Energy damage.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Hecatomb: Chance for Negative Energy Damage for 0 points of Negative Energy damage.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Degenerative Interface for 0 points of Toxic damage over time.
[17:01] Your absorb the radioactive contamination from Practice Dummy!
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Radiation Siphon for 0 points of Toxic damage.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Radiation Siphon for 0 points of Toxic damage.
[17:01] You are healed by your Radiation Siphon for 89.25 health points over time.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Degenerative Interface for 0 points of Toxic damage over time.
[17:01] You are healed by your Radiation Siphon for 89.25 health points over time.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Degenerative Interface for 0 points of Toxic damage over time.
[17:01] Radiation Siphon is recharged.

[17:01] You activated the Radiation Siphon power.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Radiation Siphon for 0 points of Smashing damage.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Radiation Siphon for 0 points of Energy damage.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Radiation Siphon for 0 points of Smashing damage.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Radiation Siphon for 0 points of Energy damage.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Touch of Lady Grey: Chance for Negative Energy Damage for 0 points of Negative Energy damage.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Degenerative Interface for 0 points of Toxic damage over time.
[17:01] You contaminate Practice Dummy!
[17:01] Vali Roentgen hits you with their Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance granting you 7.5 points of endurance.
[17:01] You hit Vali Roentgen with your Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance granting them 7.5 points of endurance.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Degenerative Interface for 0 points of Toxic damage over time.

 

 

[17:01] You activated the Radiation Siphon power.
[17:01] You are healed by your Radiation Siphon for 89.25 health points over time.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Radiation Siphon for 0 points of Smashing damage.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Radiation Siphon for 0 points of Energy damage.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Radiation Siphon for 0 points of Smashing damage.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Radiation Siphon for 0 points of Energy damage.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Touch of Lady Grey: Chance for Negative Energy Damage for 0 points of Negative Energy damage.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Hecatomb: Chance for Negative Energy Damage for 0 points of Negative Energy damage.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Degenerative Interface for 0 points of Toxic damage over time.
[17:01] Your absorb the radioactive contamination from Practice Dummy!
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Radiation Siphon for 0 points of Toxic damage.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Radiation Siphon for 0 points of Toxic damage.
[17:01] You are healed by your Radiation Siphon for 89.25 health points over time.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Degenerative Interface for 0 points of Toxic damage over time.
[17:01] You are healed by your Radiation Siphon for 89.25 health points over time.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Degenerative Interface for 0 points of Toxic damage over time.
[17:01] Vali Roentgen heals you with their Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance for 64.58 health points.
[17:01] You heal Vali Roentgen with Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance for 64.58 health points.
[17:01] Vali Roentgen hits you with their Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance granting you 7.5 points of endurance.
[17:01] You hit Vali Roentgen with your Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance granting them 7.5 points of endurance.
[17:01] Vali Roentgen hits you with their Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance granting you 10 points of endurance.
[17:01] You hit Vali Roentgen with your Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance granting them 10 points of endurance.
[17:01] Radiation Siphon is recharged.

 

[17:01] You activated the Radiation Siphon power.
[17:01] Radiation Siphon missed!
[17:01] Radiation Siphon is recharged.
[17:01] Hasten is recharged.

[17:01] You activated the Radiation Siphon power.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Radiation Siphon for 0 points of Smashing damage.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Radiation Siphon for 0 points of Energy damage.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Radiation Siphon for 0 points of Smashing damage.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Radiation Siphon for 0 points of Energy damage.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Hecatomb: Chance for Negative Energy Damage for 0 points of Negative Energy damage.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Degenerative Interface for 0 points of Toxic damage over time.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Degenerative Interface for 0 points of Toxic damage over time.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Degenerative Interface for 0 points of Toxic damage over time.
[17:01] Radiation Siphon is recharged.

[17:01] You activated the Radiation Siphon power.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Radiation Siphon for 0 points of Smashing damage.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Radiation Siphon for 0 points of Energy damage.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Radiation Siphon for 0 points of Smashing damage.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Radiation Siphon for 0 points of Energy damage.
[17:01] You hit Practice Dummy with your Degenerative Interface for 0 points of Toxic damage over time.
[17:02] You hit Practice Dummy with your Degenerative Interface for 0 points of Toxic damage over time.
[17:02] Vali Roentgen heals you with their Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance for 64.58 health points.
[17:02] You heal Vali Roentgen with Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance for 64.58 health points.
[17:02] Vali Roentgen hits you with their Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance granting you 10 points of endurance.
[17:02] You hit Vali Roentgen with your Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance granting them 10 points of endurance.
[17:02] Radiation Siphon is recharged.

[17:02] You activated the Radiation Siphon power.
[17:02] You hit Practice Dummy with your Radiation Siphon for 0 points of Smashing damage.
[17:02] You hit Practice Dummy with your Radiation Siphon for 0 points of Energy damage.
[17:02] You hit Practice Dummy with your Degenerative Interface for 0 points of Toxic damage over time.
[17:02] You contaminate Practice Dummy!
[17:02] Vali Roentgen hits you with their Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance granting you 7.5 points of endurance.
[17:02] You hit Vali Roentgen with your Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance granting them 7.5 points of endurance.

[17:02] Radiation Siphon is recharged.

[17:02] You activated the Radiation Siphon power.
[17:02] You are healed by your Radiation Siphon for 89.25 health points over time.
[17:02] You hit Practice Dummy with your Radiation Siphon for 0 points of Smashing damage.
[17:02] You hit Practice Dummy with your Radiation Siphon for 0 points of Energy damage.
[17:02] You hit Practice Dummy with your Touch of Lady Grey: Chance for Negative Energy Damage for 0 points of Negative Energy damage.
[17:02] Your absorb the radioactive contamination from Practice Dummy!
[17:02] You hit Practice Dummy with your Radiation Siphon for 0 points of Toxic damage.
[17:02] You hit Practice Dummy with your Radiation Siphon for 0 points of Toxic damage.
[17:02] You are healed by your Radiation Siphon for 89.25 health points over time.
[17:02] You are healed by your Radiation Siphon for 89.25 health points over time.
[17:02] Radiation Siphon is recharged.

[17:02] You activated the Radiation Siphon power.
[17:02] You hit Practice Dummy with your Radiation Siphon for 0 points of Smashing damage.
[17:02] You hit Practice Dummy with your Radiation Siphon for 0 points of Energy damage.
[17:02] You hit Practice Dummy with your Touch of Lady Grey: Chance for Negative Energy Damage for 0 points of Negative Energy damage.
[17:02] You hit Practice Dummy with your Degenerative Interface for 0 points of Toxic damage over time.
[17:02] Vali Roentgen heals you with their Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance for 64.58 health points.
[17:02] You heal Vali Roentgen with Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance for 64.58 health points.
[17:02] Radiation Siphon is recharged.

[17:02] You activated the Radiation Siphon power.
[17:02] You hit Practice Dummy with your Radiation Siphon for 0 points of Smashing damage.
[17:02] You hit Practice Dummy with your Radiation Siphon for 0 points of Energy damage.
[17:02] You hit Practice Dummy with your Touch of Lady Grey: Chance for Negative Energy Damage for 0 points of Negative Energy damage.
[17:02] You hit Practice Dummy with your Hecatomb: Chance for Negative Energy Damage for 0 points of Negative Energy damage.
[17:02] You hit Practice Dummy with your Degenerative Interface for 0 points of Toxic damage over time.
[17:02] Vali Roentgen hits you with their Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance granting you 10 points of endurance.
[17:02] You hit Vali Roentgen with your Performance Shifter: Chance for +Endurance granting them 10 points of endurance.
[17:02] Radiation Siphon is recharged.

[17:02] You activated the Radiation Siphon power.
[17:02] Radiation Siphon missed!
[17:02] Radiation Siphon is recharged.

[17:02] You activated the Radiation Siphon power.
[17:02] Vali Roentgen hits you with their Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance granting you 7.5 points of endurance.
[17:02] You hit Vali Roentgen with your Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance granting them 7.5 points of endurance.
[17:02] You hit Practice Dummy with your Radiation Siphon for 0 points of Smashing damage.
[17:02] You hit Practice Dummy with your Radiation Siphon for 0 points of Energy damage.
[17:02] You hit Practice Dummy with your Touch of Lady Grey: Chance for Negative Energy Damage for 0 points of Negative Energy damage.
[17:02] Radiation Siphon is recharged.

[17:02] You activated the Radiation Siphon power.
[17:02] You hit Practice Dummy with your Radiation Siphon for 0 points of Smashing damage.
[17:02] You hit Practice Dummy with your Radiation Siphon for 0 points of Energy damage.
[17:02] You hit Practice Dummy with your Degenerative Interface for 0 points of Toxic damage over time.
[17:02] You hit Practice Dummy with your Degenerative Interface for 0 points of Toxic damage over time.
[17:02] Vali Roentgen hits you with their Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance granting you 7.5 points of endurance.
[17:02] You hit Vali Roentgen with your Panacea: Chance for +Hit Points/Endurance granting them 7.5 points of endurance.
[17:02] You hit Practice Dummy with your Degenerative Interface for 0 points of Toxic damage over time.
[17:02] You hit Practice Dummy with your Degenerative Interface for 0 points of Toxic damage over time.
[17:02] You hit Practice Dummy with your Degenerative Interface for 0 points of Toxic damage over time.
[17:02] Radiation Siphon is recharged.

 

14 Activations, 2 Misses

Touch of Lady Grey (PPM 3.5): 6 for a 50% Trigger

Hecatomb (PPM 4.5): 4 for a 33% Trigger

 

Now, obviously the misses don't count here, but I didn't redact from the report.

Radiation Siphon has a 10/s base recharge with an animation time of 2.376/s

Probability to Proc = PPM * (MRT+ CastTime) / (60 * AreaMod)

The MRT of Radiation Siphone was 5.265374894692502, with cast time I rounded to 7.6397

Touch of Lady Grey: 44.56%

Hecatomb: 57.3%

 

Blanket statement that 10/s combined would be 58% proved: Incorrect in practice. You can't just plug in an assumptive full rounded number into that calculation as it won't come even remotely close. I used a base 10/s enhanced power and with a 3.5 didn't even come close to a 58% chance, neither in practice nor math. Those little trailing decimal points really drag you down.

 

Now here I got really, really luck with those Lady Grey procs, and frankly one more attack without a trigger would've brought me closer to 44%, but those Hecatomb hits really reflect how fickle the nature of it is. I talk about guaranteed expectancy, not probability. Did I low ball the 33%? Eh, kind of, that could've really been 40%, 45% if I were talking 20/s, but when I say that I'm not looking at math, but hundreds of hours of testing to tell you "This is going to happen."

 

Does the formula some times say things will be a little higher? Sometimes, but only when it's done accurately on a per-power basis, and not randomly broad spectrum.

[Hjarki]

1 hour ago, Sir Myshkin said:

But since someone wants to bring math into it:

This sample size is far too small to yield useful conclusions (around 25% margin of error at 95% confidence). It's also impossible to check your math because you haven't clearly explained what you're testing - for example, we know that 60%+ recharge must exist in your data set but we don't know where that recharge is coming from.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Hjarki

[Sir Myshkin]

4 hours ago, Hjarki said:

This sample size is far too small to yield useful conclusions (around 25% margin of error at 95% confidence). It's also impossible to check your math because you haven't clearly explained what you're testing - for example, we know that 60%+ recharge must exist in your data set but we don't know where that recharge is coming from.

 

 

You have all of the math right in front of you, and that's as far as I'm going with it. I know you just like to poke holes into things for the sake of the fire and I'm not much interested in following you into the flames. So that's that.

[aethereal]

7 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

14 Activations, 2 Misses

Touch of Lady Grey (PPM 3.5): 6 for a 50% Trigger

Hecatomb (PPM 4.5): 4 for a 33% Trigger

 

Now, obviously the misses don't count here, but I didn't redact from the report.

Radiation Siphon has a 10/s base recharge with an animation time of 2.376/s

Probability to Proc = PPM * (MRT+ CastTime) / (60 * AreaMod)

The MRT of Radiation Siphone was 5.265374894692502, with cast time I rounded to 7.6397

Touch of Lady Grey: 44.56%

Hecatomb: 57.3%

 

Blanket statement that 10/s combined would be 58% proved: Incorrect in practice.

 

So, to be clear: I said that you'd get a 58% proc rate with a power that had animation plus cooldown including local recharge of 10 seconds.

 

You, in contrast, said that a power that had a 30 seconds cooldown would have a proc rate of 35-50%.

 

You then used a power that had animation plus cooldown of 7.5 seconds, and got a proc rate of 44%.

 

And you are claiming that this proves you right?

[tidge]

On 3/14/2023 at 2:39 PM, aethereal said:

 

AoE attacks get a penalty to the proc rate based on the size of their area.  Since Axe Cyclone has quite a large radius, it takes a pretty hefty penalty to rates, but I haven't done the math on it to figure out what it'd be.  It also depends on the PPM of the proc!

 

EDIT:  My spreadsheet says that the proc rate of a 3.5 PPM proc in Axe Cyclone with no local recharge should be 42.9%

 

As I wrote in another thread, I also calculated about 43% for Axe Cyclone (per 3.5 PPM, per mobile) which aligns with my Tanker experience.

 

From memory, I think that for Axe Cyclone the PPM damage occurs on cast (when each hit mob is moved) and not when the regular damage happens... Similar to a power like Levitate where PPM damage occurs when the mob is tossed but the inherent damage occurs after the ragdoll effect resolves.

[aethereal]

1 hour ago, tidge said:

 

As I wrote in another thread, I also calculated about 43% for Axe Cyclone (per 3.5 PPM, per mobile) which aligns with my Tanker experience.

 

From memory, I think that for Axe Cyclone the PPM damage occurs on cast (when each hit mob is moved) and not when the regular damage happens... Similar to a power like Levitate where PPM damage occurs when the mob is tossed but the inherent damage occurs after the ragdoll effect resolves.

Yeah, the way it works is that powers have a "time before effect."  That's the difference between when you start the cast and when the first mechanical effects start to resolve.  Procs will go off at that point.  But each effect of the power can optionally have a further delay between when the effects start and this particular effect goes off, and it's possible for damage to be delayed further.  But proc damage won't be, because procs have no idea what each individual effect group does, or what one they "should" go with -- they just go off at the start of effects.

[Sovera]

On 3/13/2023 at 2:13 AM, hakurr said:

Is there a list that tells what the proc rate of individual powers are?

 

The easiest way is to use Mids. Right click the power and then place your cursor over the damage estimate. Like thus:

 

[SomeGuy]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vd4ZZd1jfhOzdZZkGxC9O0NN5G0T1EdWPu_XRrV6s0U/edit#gid=905771942

 

Not sure this is exactly what you are looking for nor do I remember where I found it.