Focused Feedback: Blast Power Set Updates

[Grimm2]

3 hours ago, Wavicle said:

Maybe you missed the note saying Sentinels aren’t getting Scramble Minds?

Where is that note? I was actually excited to getting around to testing it on a sent. 

[Wavicle]

32 minutes ago, Grimm2 said:

Where is that note? I was actually excited to getting around to testing it on a sent. 

Actually, I was confused, it is a chain currently.

[Neogumbercules]

I just realized that Scramble Minds is a lot like the "Truth Bomb" power I suggested for the "Braggadocious" powerset a few months back 😄

 

 

[Hartanna]

Edit: the 1 damage tick was a bug, so most of this post is obsolete.

Original Post:

 

The fire patch from Ignite only ticks for 1 damage to enemies in the AoE (except main target takes higher ticks).

This makes the AoE aspect more harm than good because:

A: It does pretty much no damage.

B: It has a fear effect.

So the AoE patch is basically a flee patch that doesn't do any (noticeable) damage.

 

So we've been through:

1. OG: Ignite leaves a high damage AoE patch that flees enemies. A good give and take.

2. i27: Ignite is a high damage ST attack. It was really good, but yes, boring.

3. i27 v2: Ignite is a high damage ST that now flees enemies in a small radius. Thematic, but feels bad.

Perhaps I am missing something, but the AoE patch feels like a cosmetic effect that adds flee status to enemies.

 

 

I'd love to see a test build that makes the skill more like Assault Bot's Incendiary Swarm Missiles (fire patch per enemy hit).

This would make the skill keep its identity, keep it's flee, but also do actual AoE damage.

 

Thanks for the work you guys put in to this game!

 

 

Edited April 14, 2023 by Hartanna

[Gobbledigook]

7 minutes ago, Hartanna said:

The fire patch from Ignite only ticks for 1 damage to enemies in the AoE (except main target takes higher ticks).

This makes the AoE aspect more harm than good because:

A: It does pretty much no damage.

B: It has a fear effect.

So the AoE patch is basically a flee patch that doesn't do any (noticeable) damage.

 

So we've been through:

1. OG: Ignite leaves a high damage AoE patch that flees enemies. A good give and take.

2. i27: Ignite is a high damage ST attack. It was really good, but yes, boring.

3. i27 v2: Ignite is a high damage ST that now flees enemies in a small radius. Thematic, but feels bad.

Perhaps I am missing something, but the AoE patch feels like a cosmetic effect that adds flee status to enemies.

 

 

I'd love to see a test build that makes the skill more like Assault Bot's Incendiary Swarm Missiles (fire patch per enemy hit).

This would make the skill keep its identity, keep it's flee, but also do actual AoE damage.

 

Thanks for the work you guys put in to this game!

 

 

Problem with that is AR does not need more AoE, it is very good already. What it needs is a big single target attack.

[Captain Powerhouse]

18 minutes ago, Hartanna said:

The fire patch from Ignite only ticks for 1 damage to enemies in the AoE (except main target takes higher ticks).

 

This is a bug, the power is summoning lower level patch pets if the target is higher level than you, internally fixed (as of 5 seconds ago) and will be fixed in the next patch.

[Neogumbercules]

4 minutes ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

This is a bug, the power is summoning lower level patch pets if the target is higher level than you, internally fixed (as of 5 seconds ago) and will be fixed in the next patch.

Have you considered adding a chain effect to the the enemies nearby to the target? It would be kinda fun to watch the other enemies catch on fire and start running around (maybe add a chain to them so they run into other enemies and start them on fire)?

 

This is starting to make me sound like a psycho.

[WindDemon21]

1 hour ago, Neogumbercules said:

Have you considered adding a chain effect to the the enemies nearby to the target? It would be kinda fun to watch the other enemies catch on fire and start running around (maybe add a chain to them so they run into other enemies and start them on fire)?

 

This is starting to make me sound like a psycho.

No that was one of my first thoughts too, why i mentioned at least if it's a single target, they should still flee around on fire.

 

Poison trap already has its own "puke" emote that the enemies do, don't see why this, or all dot fire powers can't have a "run around with hands in the air" emote the enemies would do lol.

[FupDup]

I just tried the new Ignite on my Brainstorm Sentinel - because Sents apparently are included in this change - and it's alright. It's more user-friendly than the old Ignite since doesn't need to be placed on the ground, and can give you a little extra AoE damage sometimes when you weren't expecting it. It's a creative way to appease both the Ignite and Incinerator fans and does a fine job at that purpose. 

 

On the other hand, the burn patch still has the obnoxious mag 50 afraid effect that the live Ignite has, which often causes everybody to scatter like someone farted in a crowded elevator. Fortunately the primary target will always take the DoT even if he runs like a little coward, but it's still annoying and unnecessary. Runners are a problem even without afraid patches in the equation. If we absolutely need the afraid effect can the magnitude at least be lower? Like seriously even Controllers and Dominators don't get mag 50s. 

 

Admittedly, I tested mine without having any mezz procs in the power...since it takes Ranged AOE sets now I think the Ragnarok and/or Frozen Blast procs would probably help in this regard. It's not unplayable or unusable by any means, just annoying sometimes and not really here for any reason than "just because." 

 

I'll test beanbag on a Corruptor or something later (since Sents still got Aim :P). 

 

PS: Sentinel Slug still has the old 1.67 cast time instead of the new 1.4 that everyone else gets. If we can get the Ignite change I don't see why we can't get a better Slug too. 

Edited April 14, 2023 by FupDup

[Grimm2]

Ironically, AOE Scrambled Minds is back to ST Scrambled Thoughts on Sentinels before I had a chance to test it. Anyone know why it was changed back? Seemed like the feedback was pretty positive. Was the ST damage too sluggish? Going to build something on Test regardless because I've never taken Psy Blast to any appreciable level. 

[WindDemon21]

 

Edit: These are the new patch notes that just dropped today 04/14/2023

 

Beanbag

• Lowered cooldown to 10s.
• Increased damage to scale 0.98.
• Added PvP Damage (1.43 scale).

Welp, guess we lost aim XD Guess it's usable every other "tier 1" attack now though but still means a 4th power pick where the ST isn't really needed, especially with the ignite change (if it IS the ignite damage, not the "incinerator" damage which is fairly poor tbh. Tooltip only says the details without damage scale, not sure why forcing you to have to log in just to see a damage number, no thanks, just logged out of it, not going back in just for that.

 

Psychic Blast

Will Domination (Blaster Only)

• Renamed to Dominate Will.
• Recharge lowered from 20s to 4s.
• Cast time lowered from 1.1 seconds to 1 second.
• Damage lowered from 1.24 scale to 1.0 scale.
• Sleep duration reduced to scale 8.
• Moved to T1.

UM... ok now i'm DEFINITELY calling that they change this back to will domination at a higher tier. The only thing that was making this change ok was that it still had a big long sleep attached to it (which again it's a sleep too so often minimally useful and can't stack). But to now nerf the sleep to be how low, especially since it's not something that anyone would ever slot duration into, ruins the use of the power to cycle it onto multiple enemies which was the whole point of it getting nerfed into the tier 1 spot cause you could at least do that. Please, if it's staying at tier 1, put back the higher sleep scale. Otherwise put it back at a higher tier with higher DPA like it was before!

 

Suppressive Fire

• Cast time reduced from 1.67s to 1.5s.
• Recharge reduced from 20s to 8s.
• Incendiary: Scale 2 duration Mag 3 hold (stacks). Damage increased to 1.64 scale.
• Cryo: Scale 4 duration Mag 4 hold (replace). Damage increased to 1.64 scale.
• Chemical: Scale 8 duration Mag 3 hold (stacks). Damage increased to 0.87 scale.
• Standard: Scale 3.2 duration Mag 3 stun (stacks). Damage increased to 1.64 scale.

Um, why is chemical ammo getting absolutely screwed on the damage on this. Please fix t his to be the 1.64 scale that the others have, this is quite absurd especially since it's the only ammo form worth using TBH. I don't even care if the hold is lower, but this power is needed to fix the single target damage issues in the set. Please fix  the damage in chemical ammo to 1.64 scale. (if anything I'd imagine the ice ammo would have the lower damage scale focused more on holding, not the chemical ammo.

Edited April 14, 2023 by WindDemon21

[caveat emptor]

re-made 2 characters to test

AR/dev blaster
DP/MC blaster 

AR/Dev
on live i don't have beanbag since i have enough control with KB so i can't really compare,  but even if i did i couldn't compare since on brainstorm it says it takes to-hit buff sets (it doesn't) but wont take stun or ranged damage sets either

ignite i don't hate as much as i expected i would since it does still leave a damaging burn patch and fear component (i use it as much for damage as i do a area denial) although it does still hurt not being able to place it where i want it, (on live i use ragnarock chance of knockdown in it which means i don't have to root them for most of the damage to take place, and it still lets me hit up to 3 mobs with it as an opener) although now my ST damage seems to stay about the same, my aoe damage goes down, survivability goes down slightly and my area denial is mostly lost

flamethrower i can't say i noticed much difference

full auto i wasn't fighting groups packs tightly enough for the 90 degree cone to matter, but i still don't know why it was extended so wide

DP/MC
since DP doesn't have much control (unlike AR) I actually use suppressive fire, is mainly procs, but i do use the chance of hold proc and chance of build up
normally i'd Ki push 1 target, suppressive fire another and open up on the middle with aoe's, now one aoe and the one that was suppressed is already on top of me, i get more control out of Ki push and dragon's tail it seems than i do out of DP's only form of control

i trust other peoples numbers that the damage works out to 'about the same or slightly more'  but i don't have a build up (which would minimize the damage loss from procs on live), but the 'proc bombing' lets me have a heavy hit and control when i need it, now the DPS might work out the same or better but i have to use it multiple times to have it even out instead of a slow recharging haymaker it only works out it seems to use it like a jab, and there is no need for that in my rotation if it loses almost all of it's CC

i don't need it for my damage rotation, the loss of hold means i can't count on it for any CC either 

[FupDup]

In regards to Suppressive, IMO I think that every ammo type should give a different mezz type. Not just different mag or duration. So maybe something like this: 

 

Standard: Mega knockback (basically Nemesis Staff on steroids)

Cyro: Sleep

Incendiary: Stun

Chemical: Hold (puking animation)

 

This would fit with the intent of choosing the right ammo type for the right enemy/situation. 

[WindDemon21]

2 minutes ago, FupDup said:

In regards to Suppressive, IMO I think that every ammo type should give a different mezz type. Not just different mag or duration. So maybe something like this: 

 

Standard: Mega knockback (basically Nemesis Staff on steroids)

Cyro: Sleep

Incendiary: Stun

Chemical: Hold (puking animation)

 

This would fit with the intent of choosing the right ammo type for the right enemy/situation. 

DEFINITELY not. Not unless they actually also make some "mez" IO sets that cover any mez type (esp that would include s/l defense since that's impossible to get in good values on ranged toons.

[FupDup]

Just now, WindDemon21 said:

DEFINITELY not. Not unless they actually also make some "mez" IO sets that cover any mez type (esp that would include s/l defense since that's impossible to get in good values on ranged toons.

Universal mezz is definitely a type of IO set we need, and I think it's something on the devs' radar already. Or maybe that was universal debuff? I don't remember. 

[WindDemon21]

1 minute ago, FupDup said:

Universal mezz is definitely a type of IO set we need, and I think it's something on the devs' radar already. Or maybe that was universal debuff? I don't remember. 

Maybe the debuff, i haven't heard anything regarding a universal mez yet outside of the special hami-types but that's not till 47+ anyways so that doesn't really help.

 

And yeah we definitely need universal debuff sets for things like fulcrum shift, sonic siphon, etc that don't take any IOs. They also need to fix heat exhaustion, WHICH EVEN HAS END DRAIN, to take end mod sets for that purpose too. For a 1 target, 120s rech/40s duratoin debuff , I'm honestly surprised it's not autohit anwyay.

[Gobbledigook]

The new Ignite is good but probably too good . It does good damage with a mag 50 fear, that ticks on the main target even when they run.  It also damages and fears nearby mobs that can be chained to constantly lock down mobs.. Throw in KBs and stun (beanbag) and you can lockdown a target very easily. Probably overpowered now with Ignite but i like Ignite lol.

 

Should the mag 50 fear not be lowered?

 

Beanbag is very mediocre at best and will probably be skipped.  Luckily sentinels still get Aim 🙂

 

Full auto on Sentinels is still underperforming compared to other Sentinel T9's.  FA 13.83 x11=152.13 damage, yet other Sentinel T9's hit for around 200 damage. Why is that?

Edited April 14, 2023 by Gobbledigook

[Crimsanotic]

Why not just make it Concussive Rounds instead of Aim and just have it add stun to attacks if people apparently love Beanbag so much.

[Super Atom]

5 minutes ago, Crimsanotic said:

Why not just make it Concussive Rounds instead of Aim and just have it add stun to attacks if people apparently love Beanbag so much.

 

This is the better option. even if it just adds stun to one or two attacks lol

 

Beanbag over aim is a terrible decision.

Edited April 14, 2023 by Super Atom

[Vanden]

26 minutes ago, Crimsanotic said:

Why not just make it Concussive Rounds instead of Aim and just have it add stun to attacks if people apparently love Beanbag so much.

 

It's not really a good substitute, since Aim and equivalents are on a 90s recharge, while Beanbag is on a 20s (now 10s) cooldown. It's a massive reduction in Beanbag's already meager CC potential.

[Crimsanotic]

1 minute ago, Vanden said:

 

It's not really a good substitute, since Aim and equivalents are on a 90s recharge, while Beanbag is on a 20s (now 10s) cooldown. It's a massive reduction in Beanbag's already meager CC potential.

Then why not add stun to Slug or something instead?

[TotalThunder]

11 minutes ago, Crimsanotic said:

Then why not add stun to Slug or something instead?

Making Slug a stun just to make people happy and putting Aim back in is the correct solution, seeing as a single target, low damage stun is functionally useless in all but the most base level of play.

Edited April 14, 2023 by TotalThunder

[FupDup]

Okay so I just tested the new Beanbag on an AR/Traps Corruptor at level 50, fully slotted with IO's and a janky but workable build. I found some Circle of Thorns bosses lurking around PI and bullied them relentlessly by permastunlocking them with BB and shooting them in the face. For the last Death Mage I killed him using only beanbag and kick to make it as slow and agonizing as possible for him. I'm pretty sure I violated several Geneva conventions in the process, but war crimes don't matter if you win. 

 

So BB does, against all odds, kind of do its job now...if you enhance the crap out of it. I have mine slotted with 2 Hami's (acc/mezz) and 2 Desyncs (rech/end) since it can't accept stun IO sets yet. Also note that this experiment only involved very sparse level 50 mobs roaming the streets. Against a full +4x8 mob I would be needing to use a lot of AoE attacks thus the stunlocking thing would probably be less reliable. And it probably won't work well at low levels where survival is important, since you won't have the slots or enhancement magnitude of a level 50 toon. 

 

I'd still rather have Aim tho, or some other damage boosting ability in its place. 

Edited April 14, 2023 by FupDup

[Wavicle]

It's not really a question of whether Aim is better than Beanbag (it is).

 

The issue is one of changing the basic functionality of a powerset that has been in the game since launch, that is played by many, many people.

If they can find a niche for the set that is satisfactory in performance that includes Beanbag and Ignite, then great.

[nihilii]

Loving the latest AR changes, both Ignite and Beanbag. While this isn't to everyone's tastes, personally I'm happy to trade Aim for a fast-activating stun with standard damage I can fit in my regular attack chain and doublestack to boss magnitude with ease.