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Focused Feedback: Blast Power Set Updates


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8 minutes ago, Gobbledigook said:

HIT Behemoth Overlord! Your Full Auto power had a 95.00% chance to hit, you rolled a 48.66.
You hit Behemoth Overlord with your Full Auto for 52.84 points of Lethal damage over time.
You hit Behemoth Overlord with your Offensive Adaptation for 21.84 points of Toxic damage.
You hit Behemoth Overlord with your Full Auto for 52.84 points of Lethal damage over time.
You hit Behemoth Overlord with your Full Auto for 52.84 points of Lethal damage over time.
You hit Behemoth Overlord with your Full Auto for 52.84 points of Lethal damage over time.
You hit Behemoth Overlord with your Full Auto for 52.84 points of Lethal damage over time.
You hit Behemoth Overlord with your Full Auto for 52.84 points of Lethal damage over time.
You hit Behemoth Overlord with your Full Auto for 52.84 points of Lethal damage over time.
You hit Behemoth Overlord with your Full Auto for 52.84 points of Lethal damage over time.
You hit Behemoth Overlord with your Full Auto for 52.84 points of Lethal damage over time.
You hit Behemoth Overlord with your Full Auto for 52.84 points of Lethal damage over time.
You hit Behemoth Overlord with your Full Auto for 52.84 points of Lethal damage over time.

The extra damage coming from Offensive Adaptation dot seems very low indeed. Same with Flamethrower. Seems to apply on the first dot only. Is this correct?

Yeah it's supposes to be like a 20-25%ish boost iirc This happens with rain powers a lot but odd seeing it here on a DoT. It should be a bigger bump up front like how crits work. Regardless if they end up saying "it's intended" this seems way too low at like a what 3.5% ish boost?

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1 hour ago, WindDemon21 said:

Yeah it's supposes to be like a 20-25%ish boost iirc This happens with rain powers a lot but odd seeing it here on a DoT. It should be a bigger bump up front like how crits work. Regardless if they end up saying "it's intended" this seems way too low at like a what 3.5% ish boost?

What i find odd also is that Full auto for Blasters recharges in 1 minute compared to a Sentinels 1 minute 30 seconds.

 

The Blasters is hitting the same mob for 61.62 x11 with no self buffs at all whilst the Sentinels hits for 36.56x11 with no buffs.

 

That does not seem fair at all.

 

The damage was not quite as high for the Blaster as shown above. It had a buff i did not notice. But the damage is higher by a fair bit than the Sentinels with less downtime and more range. Even with Offensive adaptation switched on the Sentinel still did quite a bit less damage than the Blasters Full auto.

Edited by Gobbledigook
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2 minutes ago, Gobbledigook said:

What i find odd also is that Full auto for Blasters recharges in 1 minute compared to a Sentinels 1 minute 30 seconds.

 

The Blasters is hitting the same mob for 61.62 x11 with no self buffs at all whilst the Sentinels hits for 36.56x11 with no buffs.

 

That does not seem fair at all.

Agreed, same with rain of arrows. They both get royally screwed on sentinels.

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17 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

Agreed, same with rain of arrows. They both get royally screwed on sentinels.

Yes, Blasters has 80' range cone compared to 40' and is further enhanced with the snipe also. 

 

Now is a good time to address this lol.

 

The sentinels full auto is not much better damage than a Corruptors with 50% more downtime than the corruptors.

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1 minute ago, Gobbledigook said:

Yes, Blasters has 80' range cone compared to 40' and is further enhanced with the snipe also. 

 

Now is a good time to address this lol.

I mean regarding the cone sents have less range which is fine but I'd say 60ft would be good for it on sents. But stupidly imo they still only hit 10 targets so you'd still usually hit that in a 60ft cone.

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Tried out Psy Blast with a couple of different configurations on my Psy/Nin and I have to say, more than anything I feel like the change to Scramble Thoughts/Scramble Minds really adds a notable layer of AoE CC.  Being able to chain it and the faster Psy Tornado definitely led me to surviving some tricky positions.

 

(Sound warning)

 

 

 

On the other hand, as excited as I was about Psi Darts, it felt a little underwhelming. Not terrible, but feels skippable depending on what your secondary brings to the table.

 

Dominate Will was okay as well. I didn't really test it as I suggest upthread because I was on a pre-existing 50 that runs Clarion. Maybe when I have more time this weekend I'll run a baby blaster through the wickets.

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38 minutes ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

Tried out Psy Blast with a couple of different configurations on my Psy/Nin and I have to say, more than anything I feel like the change to Scramble Thoughts/Scramble Minds really adds a notable layer of AoE CC.  Being able to chain it and the faster Psy Tornado definitely led me to surviving some tricky positions.

 

(Sound warning)

 

 

 

On the other hand, as excited as I was about Psi Darts, it felt a little underwhelming. Not terrible, but feels skippable depending on what your secondary brings to the table.

 

Dominate Will was okay as well. I didn't really test it as I suggest upthread because I was on a pre-existing 50 that runs Clarion. Maybe when I have more time this weekend I'll run a baby blaster through the wickets.

Similar experience. Psi/Ninja is a very strong combo, due to all the status effects you can throw around.

 

It's a little hard to see, because of the camera angles due to the ceiling height.
 

 

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4 minutes ago, KaizenSoze said:

Similar experience. Psi/Ninja is a very strong combo, due to all the status effects you can throw around.

 

It's a little hard to see, because of the camera angles due to the ceiling height.
 

 


When I was having a mess about looking at it I couldn’t figure out which secondary to go with as I don’t have much experience with blasters. I am gonna test this out cos it looks damn fun.

 

On the whole, think I’m quite happy with psi. It’s gone from “eh, I’ll try something else” to “actually looks quite interesting” to me.

@Xiddo on Excel. Alts: Agent Betel - V_archetypeicon_dominator.png.5633ed21aff3ea441cdd024895843d4a.png  Athosin - Archetypeicon_peacebringer.png.9e329a8a509066a020fd4635ccbb4385.png  Nisotha - image.png.c44c4b37be8839626cedeee9a8966397.png  Anapos - V_archetypeicon_corruptor.png.f105930c83b316a39d147c7de8c7e017.png  Atomic Chilli - V_archetypeicon_brute.png.b1e0b25149b74ff24ce1fd3603064e6e.png  Bainbridge - image.png.fc49fb2cec0488ed5cd6d82f5ea9260a.png

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12 minutes ago, Xiddo said:


When I was having a mess about looking at it I couldn’t figure out which secondary to go with as I don’t have much experience with blasters. I am gonna test this out cos it looks damn fun.

 

On the whole, think I’m quite happy with psi. It’s gone from “eh, I’ll try something else” to “actually looks quite interesting” to me.

It is a really fun combo, unless you are fighting robot boss. Then it's rather tedious, but only the bosses.

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10 hours ago, Booper said:

For clarity, can you tell us how you slotted Suppressive Fire for your testing?

Okay here we go.  Walk of Test inbound!

 

Suppressive Fire is a mitigation tool, it is supposed to give a shooter a little breathing room, a little safety especially true for Blasters and Defenders and Corruptors, not so much for Sentinels (lazy tank wanna-be Blasters 🙂 ) .  So the following were tested on both live and on Brainstorm (character transfer not new creation).  All characters were tested against White conn Enemies of several types appropriate to their level.

 

Di Di Guns (Dual Pistols/Martial Combat) Blaster - Level 50 +3
Suppressive Fire slotted with a single Lockdown (Accuracy/Hold) (Attuned) - This character built as a Blapper using Suppressive Fire for exactly that reason, limited suppression, wasn't looking to do damage and wasn't looking to be a full controller.

 

- Enemies Fought - (PI Portal Corp Area) - Circle (Behemoth Overlord Lieutenants, Death Mage Bosses), Possessed Scientists (various Minion), Nemesis (Minions and Lieutenant), Carnie (Minion and Lieutenant).

 

On Excelsior
4.16 Lethal + 4.16 Lethal
Hold from Suppressive 9.54 seconds

 

Almost never failed to hold. except on Strongmen.  Recharge low enough through SET IO bonus that I can perma-hold minions and almost perma hold LT.  This allows me to either work the bosses (Death Mages and Warhulks mostly).

 

On Brainstorm

68.23 Lethal + 68.23 Lethal
Hold from Suppressive 2.38 seconds

 

That is an unbelievable reduction in hold duration, not minor, not balancing based on the significant reduction in recharge.  That is like 200% reduction and that is with a 26.5% boost from the Set IO which means that just using basic non-exact math that unslotted for hold boost the hold time would be 1.75 seconds.  Also, no longer even holds Behemoth Overlord Lieutenants or Nemesis Lieutenants.  Still holds Minions (hooray, I suppose).  Oh and even with Recharge reduction through Set IO, still not recharging before the hold expires (because you cant get recharge down to 1 second.  So at its base, it no longer functions as a suppression tool, its what, a toggle popper now?  Granted, this character at her level and her slotting and Set and Incarnates is not threatened by this but what about the one player and his character coming up who sees suppressive fire and looks to take it to survive until magical incarnate time.  Wow this sucks, I guess I should respec and take . . . Toxic Dart?  In this scenario it has been rendered combat ineffective.


Next

Two Gun Trixie - (Dual Pistol/Ninja Training) Blaster - Level 31
Suppressive Fire slotted with two Basilisk Gaze (Attuned) (Accuracy/Hold and Recharge/Hold) - Designed also as a Blapper but looking to leverage synergy with Choking Powder

 

- Enemies Fought (Brickstown) - Freakshow (Minions and Lieutenants and Bosses), Crey (Minions), Prisoners (Minions) and Council/Column (Minions and Lieutenants)

 

On Excelsior
2.47 Lethal + 2.47 Lethal
Hold from Suppressive 12.2 seconds

 

Again (using cold rounds so I can see the hold) I lock almost every target I shoot (except streak breaker misses) . . . ALL of them.  Twelve seconds of the lieutenant being out of the fight while I work the Freak Tank.  Also, as a thing to note, because I have some Recharge bonuses going I was ale to get in a second Suppression shot in on said boss tank giving me a small "he's on ice" moment especially when mixed together with Choking Powder (as intended) because POWER SYNERGY!

 

Off to Test.

40.44 Lethal + 40.44 Lethal
Hold From Suppressive 7.58 seconds

 

What?  Where did that 200% reduction go that I saw on Di DI?  If that was there then we would be seeing something like 2 point something plus 43.6% from the two Hold enhancements making it like 3 point something (I am not super math person).  Lieutenants on ice . . . no . . . bosses catching a double stack . . . no.  None of that happened.  Now Choking Powder is not the synergistic layer its the enforcer, meaning now its needed to help Suppressive do the job its suppose to do vice augment and improve it.  Now again I have been playing Blasters a very long time so I know how to get out of that kind of scenario and survive with the bad guys on the floor instead of me but I once more reiterate that I no longer have a viable form of suppression in a power that is literally supposed to be just that.  In this scenario it has been rendered significantly combat degraded.

 

Boom Boom Britta (Dual Pistol/Kinetics) - Corruptor -  Level 40 (Level 41 awaiting training due to not having run V-Side Patron Arc)
Suppressive Fire Slotted with four (4) Basilisk Gaze (Attuned) (Accuracy/Hold, Accuracy/Recharge, Recharge/Hold and Endurance/Recharge/Hold) - Designed to be more Team-centric due to Kinetics I felt the bigger investment in lockdown (the skill not the Set 🙂 ) was important.

 

- Note - Tested using zero Kinetics powers (i.e. Siphon Power) in order to get a clear feel of the deal
- Enemies Fought (Peregrine Island by the Ferry) - Nemesis, Rikti, Carnie (Lieutenants and minions and a Boss or two becuase Nemesis plot)

 

On Excelsior
3.88 Lethal + 1.94 Lethal
Hold from Suppressive 14.2 seconds

 

Like the others, the same results.  Suppression, security and dependable.

 

On Brainstorm
63.61 Lethal + 31.80 Lethal
Hold from Suppressive Fire 9.01

 

Again what?  Now we are seeing only a what, 35% reduction, my math has to be off here right?  These aren't MIDS numbers or me trying to extrapolate these are what eh the game is saying from the power info.  Does the diminishment of hold duration occur before or after Set buffs are applied?  I don't know what the ED cap on Hold duration is, but the Hold duration from the sets breaks out to 61%.  Now here, I still have combat viability.  The duration of the hold is still long enough to snap off one or two shots on the target.  But, like all of the above, I can no longer consistently lock Lieutenants (or rather never), so the power is rendered combat diminished.  Slots will be removed and placed elsewhere.

 

Trinity Six (Dual Pistols/Energy Aura) - Sentinel - Level 38

Suppressive Fire slotted with Four Devastation (Attuned) Accuracy/Damage, Damage/Endurance, Damage/Recharge and Accuracy/Damage Recharge and a single Basilisk Gaze (Accuracy Hold) - This was supposed to be a tanky semi blappery shooter.  The buff to damage that Sentinels got on the last pass made them fun to play so there you go.

 

- Enemies Fought (Founders Falls - SW close to Eden Gate) - Devouring Earth, Rikti - Minions and Lieutenants and one Boss

 

On Excelsior
83.18 Lethal + 83.18 Lethal
Hold from Suppressive Fire 4.27 seconds

 

Sentinels were already low on the hold and high on the damage with this power which is why the Devastation was slotted.  Is this what they want the Blasters to be?  I get a good near 5 second hold, snap off another shot from something else.  And of course I can lock Lieutenants.  I have Armor I am not as needing the suppression of Suppressive fire ergo he damage.

 

On Brainstorm
83.18 Lethal + 83.18 Lethal
Hold from Suppressive Fire 6.67 Seconds

 

Wait!  What?  So no damage buff but an increase in hold duration.  In fact three times as long as the Blaster on Test with single hold Set IO add.  On a character with armor and mez protection.  Because I need that additional suppression for survivability on a semi-tank.  What?  Oh well at least it no longer locks Lieutenants either so I got that going for me.

 

And so we get to the rat killing.  Why?
If the goal was to make the suppression low for toggle breaking sake then why not apply it equally and still the question is why?
If the goal was to make it more damaging . . . the damage is still less than Pistols which would be fine if the hold duration and mag hadn't been gutted as bad as they were.
If the goal was to make shine when slotted, you failed because the slotting doesn't let it shine.  You cannot get the hold duration back to a usable level.

 

Now if the goal was to take away a unique power feature and replace it with just another fancy animation damage power.  Mission accomplished.  I might keep it because it fires faster than piercing rounds.

 

The issue here, and it seems like its also the case over in Assault Rifle land as well is that because its S/L and supposedly doesn't put out enough DPS for the "I want more damage" crowd that there needed to be changes to powers that do not deliver damage but do something else unique.  I don't have an AR toon, tried it and dumped it because of Flamethrower and Ignite, they were immersion breaking for me and a PITA.  Adding Aim makes total sense because its a long arm and shooters aim.  I mean If you dumped say ignite and put Beanbag there, which is amore likely scenario for a load in an underslung grenade launcher along with the M30 that would keep some uniqueness.  Of course I would also shit can flamethrower because it makes zero sense on an AR, even a ludicrous AR like the M63 Frankengun.  But hey, I don't have an AR so my opinion on that doesn't carry any weight.

 

But I have a pile of DP toons (two weren't even tested because one doesn't have Suppressive and one is a shit Defender - my build not the mechanics) and like so many other things it is the fact that it isn't straight up damage that make them fun.  The oft-touted S/L underpower complaint is offset by secondary's and things like mitigation, suppression and the like.

 

You really wanna add damage, fine, add a little.  Let the power remain centered on the lockdown.  Killing the ability to lock Lieutenants is a key failure.  At low to mid levels solo you need to have that time with a locked LT to either clear minions or whittle down a boss.  but even with mag not touched you aren't doing that with a 2 second lock or even a 4 second lock.  You adjusted recharge so that it could be a viable addition to the damage fire chain.  If you have such a hard on to add another damage power to the chain then instead of 20 seconds to 8 seconds and gutting the hold duration and mag, leave the mag alone notch the hold duration down a little and only notch the recharge down to a point where I cannot permanently keep a guy held unless I have paid the price with slotting and Sets.

 

Personally I wouldn't even change it.  I have enough powers in my attack chain on any of my characters to where I have a clean cycle; Pistols, Dual Wield, Empty Clips, Bullet Rain and Executioners Shot, repeat with no waiting and that isn't even counting Hail of Bullets.  I don't need another damage power, especially one that deals less damage than the lowest damage power I currently have.  Because here's how I roll solo as a straight shooter, no Blaptastic attacking; Suppressive Fire on LT, Standard Chain (P-DW-EC-BR) on the minions, they are gone, refresh Suppressive on LT, start working the boss, Standard Chain Once, Suppressive on LT, Standard Chain Twice on boss, he dead, Finish the LT.  That's how I shoot em straight regardless of the toon.

 

Please look a little harder at this, its not always about damage, even on a Blaster.

Edited by High_Beam
Fixed a Spelling and formatting error.
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I'll try to get some time on all my Dual Pistol characters, but I did try out the changes on the Sentinel. 

 

Overall, this was a damage increase, but I may have gotten lucky on my Pylon not slapping me around as much as usual. 

 

For context, on Live my Suppressive Fire has a DPA of just over 135. On Brainstorm the same character with the change to SF has a new DPA in that power of 150. 

 

Slotting includes Acc/Dmg from the PvP set and a +5 common level 50 IO. One of the procs is the Unbreakable Constraint. The others include Toxic and Psionic standard PPM. 

My solo attempt recorded time just leveraging Ageless for Endurance (the recharge is inconsequential to my build as my routine is gapless before using it) and not using Assault Hybrid was 3 Minutes 15 Seconds. This was one of the fastest times I have recorded and it was on a first attempt which is rare for me. This is still too small a sample to really conclude the total breadth of the damage increase (at least for my build), but it does match napkin modeling. By this, I assume at least a +5 DPS increase due to the changes, and even in despite of the prod chance reduction, and in testing it was greater than that on a first go. Of course, I expect that because modeling Opportunity, Achilles' Heel, etc. isn't something I am bothering with in a quick calculation. 

 

I have both a Defender and Corruptor that I'll check out when I have more time. Both builds use Piercing Rounds, particularly with no ammo, in order to create synergy with their debuff kits which also include -resistance. I *never* modeled performance for either based off stacking debuffs from PR, and likely won't notice a performance drop. What I am more interested in is performance with allowance of an ammo power in the routine with the change (which to me is a welcome addition). 

My Corruptor has Suppressive Fire 4 slotted with Basilisk. I do not build for procs on that character (same goes for the Defender) as I have moved away from that on these characters a while ago. Anyway, more later. So far, the Sentinel felt pretty smooth in a quick test and I wanted to share that feedback. 

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After seeing a lot of the comments here and thinking about this for a while, I'd have to say that I agree.

 

Ignite should remain mechanically similar but with the annoying parts about it removed.

 

I've previously suggested something like Incendiary Grenade, basically being a mini-version of the Assault Bot Incendiary Missiles attack. Bigger AoE, fast cast, leave it to the player to find ways to keep enemies put.

 

Another idea I mentioned in the general feedback thread is to keep this change but give the DoT the chaining mechanic so it spreads to nearby foes.

 

As it stands is seems pretty whelming, but after work I'll get on and test it out for real instead of humming and hawing.

Edited by Neogumbercules
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Regarding AR...
For my blaster, Beanbag is a great power.  It's invaluable when those Cimeroran ITF bosses are running up to kill me, and one of my options is just to send them flying.  
I have Ignite and I use it all the time.  Even if it's not a killer power, it's good.  I find it effective after I hold/imm/slow someone, to DoT them down.  It's also a handy way to ignite Oil Slick for my AR/TA Blaster.  

 

And I've played AR blasters since live (my first main 50 hero), and continue to play them regularly on Homecoming, and I've never wished I had Aim.  
Not every blaster set needs to be Aim+Build based. 
Not every blaster set needs to be perfectly aligned with another. 
If you go AR/DEV, you don't get Aim or Build, but you get other kinds of utility. 

If you want one of those powers, go AR with some other secondary. 

Even Full Auto... Like ok if you wanna add a huge cone to the long range, I'll take it.  But, classically, it was cool to have a blaster nuke that was unique with its long range and narrow cone.  It informs that in-the-moment play strategy for how you use it.  Changing it so that I can just face a direction and mow down practically everything in my field of vision just seems more like watering it down. 

 

Regarding DP...
I find Suppressive Fire invaluable for similar reasons.  

I can't help but wonder if the recharge changes in some of these powers is specifically to remove the ability for them to reliably proc.  Right now, Suppressive Fire has a huge range of possibilities because it can reliably proc.  One or two of my toons slot for damage procs, but most of them add a knockback proc in addition to Lockdown, making it like a Beanbag power that also briefly holds.  
Not sure why anyone would want to remove that wealth of possibilities from a power. 

 

If there are real numerically provable deficiencies in these or any other power sets, I'm all for trying to make things more equitable.  But these changes as they are don't seem focused on that, while also removing quality build and play options. 

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So  got on test finally, defintely still standing on what I've said. While the sleep is nice, I'd still much rather keep it as a bigger hitter, the set took a good loss on DPA by having this  change, and a good loss on healing via the CotS proc, and other procs like the hold proc and damage procs too.

 

And yes, mental blast is still  tier 2 fyi on live and beta.

 

It would be best to move MB to tier 1, at the 1s/4s stats, and tk blast to tier 2. It is 10s recharge, which I'd still prefer to keep, but at tier 2 I'd imagine that would come with 8s recharge, but then that's usable when mezzed too, so still useful. then move psy darts to tier 3. Psy darts is awesome btw, it just needs a tiny bump up in damage maybe but otherwise fine.

 

Regarding DP, I still think the mez was hit too hard with this, but the recharge/damage/activation time are all good. The mez regardless of duration too, should be mag 3 standardized, not the weird "99% chance* and "mag 2 for cryo ammo" etc. But the non-mez stats of it are definitely a welcome change,

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Just a small note here, since it's honestly less important than the AR and DP discussions, but I will note that I put my Water/Energy Blaster on beta last night and bummed around with it a little, and it was fabulous.  I'm a friggin' water machinegun now, thanks for these.

 

Okay, now back to letting people more versed than I figure out if the DP change is worth it or not.

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Oh yeah the Water Blast changes are spectacular. Some combo sets really struggle, I wouldn't say Water is one of them, but this makes it even better than it already was as a pretty nice all around set. And fixes a bug the set had.

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On 4/5/2023 at 3:57 PM, The Curator said:

Blast Power Set Updates

Assault Rifle

 

Ignite

  • Replaced with Incinerator. Incinerator does DoT over 5.6 seconds to a single target, for a total of 56.17 dpa (Blaster values).
  • If the target is currently under the effect of -defense debuffs, the DoT is extended to 7.1s, for a DPA of 70.82 (Blaster values).
  • Can target flying enemies.

 

 

Please do not do this. I use this power to do numerous things the new power wouldn't do: Control where mobs stand and move, ignite my oil slick, throw it into the doorway in the Terra Volta reactor or similar places where mobs jam themselves up. This also strips the set of some of its AoE. I have enough ST damage, leave ignite alone and let us use it as intended.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Vanden said:

Do you? The set only has 3 single-target attacks, and 5 AoEs.

 

Yes, the 3 ST attacks are fine, especially when you consider that against AV's  and other hard targets that tend to remain stationary, Ignite already is effectively an ST dot. Stripping out its other functionality isn't make it any better or the set any more effective. Along with the beanbag change, this entirely strips any mitigation out of the set. AR wasn't meant to be a clone of every other set, but something to have more tools and utility. Genericing it into another set with Aim and an ST dot is, IMO, a terrible decision.

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36 minutes ago, Vanden said:

 

Do you? The set only has 3 single-target attacks, and 5 AoEs.

I'm not sure if it's a bug too, but in the game the description says incinerator on a level 50 blaster says it's dpa is 144something, but under it it's damage states 23 ticks of 5.46 which is only a dpa of that 74ish. Perhaps there is a coding issue and it is actually meant to have that dpa of 142.49, which actually puts it just a little under blaze which would make a lot more sense for this power to have a high dpa like that since it takes 5.5 seconds for that damage to be dealt too? So all this might be an issue of it just not applying the right damage and it actually SHOULD be higher.

image.thumb.png.6f48be62f46643bf1ec1e469f7d96415.png

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