If you're going to play at the highest level in the game...

[Oklahoman]

...I expect you can do the most basic things in the game.

 

Had a BAF run the other day with a 50+1 to whom LFG had gifted the league star after we zoned in. They didn't respond to my tells, nor messages from others on their team. FINALLY they fixed it, then complained in league chat about everyone bombarding them with messages about the star.

 

Look, I'm pretty easy going, but I'm seeing more and more 50+ players who can't (or won't):

• respond to tells
• pass the star
• use the map
• pass an item without a trade window
• use follow
• click glowies
• etc.

 

I know a lot of people new to the game are just leveling up in AE then doing iTrials, and I don't even mind. Whatever floats your boat. But if you don't know the basics like these you need to do a little research before jumping in the deep end. I've mentioned before I wish we had some sort of "test trial" you had to complete to go from 49 to 50.

 

Anyway, that's my rant today. I'm gonna go watch The Flash now.

 

Edited June 17, 2023 by Oklahoman

[GM Crumpet]

As you say, there are a lot of people who are under the impression CoX is like some other MMO's where the game starts at level cap and everything to get there is a painful grind, so they do AE farming until they hit 50 then have no real clue how to play. Not their fault, it's a symptom of a lot of games, but it does mean they don't have much to do at that level and they don't understand the basics.  I think we need to have patience with those people and help point them in the right direction, but I can see why someone would be annoyed with lots of people all messaging them 🙂 

[Bionic_Flea]

44 minutes ago, Oklahoman said:

Anyway, that's my rant today. I'm gonna go watch The Flash now.

 

Not everyone can be a Sooner.

 

But wait . . . if you are saying these players are jumping the gun by flying to 50 and itrials without an idea of what it might be like, . . . well, maybe they ARE Sooners.  😎

[Luminara]

1 hour ago, Oklahoman said:

I'm seeing more and more 50+ players who can't (or won't):

• respond to tells
• pass the star
• use the map
• pass an item without a trade window
• use follow
• click glowies
• etc.

 

You got @Snarky's sloppy seconds.  EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!

[Veracor]

Try not to get frustrated at powerlevelled newbies.  They probably learned about the game from an experienced player who was just powerlevelling their own alts to 50 and merely offered to do the same to their new friend, not realizing it's cutting a ton of contacts out for a new person and leaving them at the hands of LFG to figure out what to do.  The saddest AE baby I've ever encountered in iTrials didn't even know there were zones other than Atlas Park and Ouroboros -- they thought Atlas Park was Paragon City and that Ouroboros was a DLC from live.

 

Sometimes there's a lot of stupid to unpack.  Best you can do as a content leader is to have patience and then journal the experience afterward for comedy (after redacting names of course).

[OverkillEngine]

57 minutes ago, GM Crumpet said:

As you say, there are a lot of people who are under the impression CoX is like some other MMO's where the game starts at level cap and everything to get there is a painful grind, so they do AE farming until they hit 50 then have no real clue how to play. Not their fault, it's a symptom of a lot of games, but it does mean they don't have much to do at that level and they don't understand the basics.  I think we need to have patience with those people and help point them in the right direction, but I can see why someone would be annoyed with lots of people all messaging them 🙂 

 

Kind of sad really that so many other games have trained people to have that mentality since CoX is one of the few games where making a new alt and leveling them organically is actually fun on top of being a form of necessary instruction in learning how that specific character's build actually works. (As well as how to deal with certain content - powerleveled players aren't likely to know how to deal with Malta Sappers for example even if their build has the tools) Just changing out a primary or secondary set or some power pools within an AT can cause fairly large swings in function and effect.

Edited June 17, 2023 by OverkillEngine

[Snarky]

3 hours ago, Oklahoman said:

...I expect you can do the most basic things in the game.

 

Had a BAF run the other day with a 50+1 to whom LFG had gifted the league star after we zoned in. They didn't respond to my tells, nor messages from others on their team. FINALLY they fixed it, then complained in league chat about everyone bombarding them with messages about the star.

 

Look, I'm pretty easy going, but I'm seeing more and more 50+ players who can't (or won't):

• respond to tells
• pass the star
• use the map
• pass an item without a trade window
• use follow
• click glowies
• etc.

 

I know a lot of people new to the game are just leveling up in AE then doing iTrials, and I don't even mind. Whatever floats your boat. But if you don't know the basics like these you need to do a little research before jumping in the deep end. I've mentioned before I wish we had some sort of "test trial" you had to complete to go from 49 to 50.

 

Anyway, that's my rant today. I'm gonna go watch The Flash now.

 

This is a glass half something scenario.

 

Unless you are dealing (with a lot!) of drunk(s) you are probably seeing new players.  Which the community needs.  Who knows, if they stay around they may figure out what the glowie sound means...

[Sanguinesun]

4 hours ago, Oklahoman said:

...I expect you can do the most basic things in the game.

 

Had a BAF run the other day with a 50+1 to whom LFG had gifted the league star after we zoned in. They didn't respond to my tells, nor messages from others on their team. FINALLY they fixed it, then complained in league chat about everyone bombarding them with messages about the star.

 

Look, I'm pretty easy going, but I'm seeing more and more 50+ players who can't (or won't):

• respond to tells
• pass the star
• use the map
• pass an item without a trade window
• use follow
• click glowies
• etc.

 

I know a lot of people new to the game are just leveling up in AE then doing iTrials, and I don't even mind. Whatever floats your boat. But if you don't know the basics like these you need to do a little research before jumping in the deep end. I've mentioned before I wish we had some sort of "test trial" you had to complete to go from 49 to 50.

 

Anyway, that's my rant today. I'm gonna go watch The Flash now.

 

 

I think it is important to also think about the fact that some of the points, if not all, are as well not necessarily being correlation equals causation with regards to it being some sort of power leveling through AE or other such thing.  

 

1. Not responding to tells:

 

A. AFK or tabbed out checking something.

B. Distracted by any number or IRL reasons to where they're not seeing the screen though at the keyboard.  (Cats and kids being a common one I see)

C. Non native speaker of English(we're having more folks who do not have English as their first language but try to make an effort.

D. Disabilities that make typing out things slow or difficult and have general game play set ups to facilitate play but just dont chat away.

 

2. Passing the star:

 

A. Having been away from the game for a while and not remembering how.

B. Never having lead or had a need to pass the star (you'd be surprised how many long time players never lead teams or have had to do this even if they play regularly(and thus not necessarily knowing how. Not everyone is comfortable/likes leading.

C. Similar to B, people who almost exclusively solo'd to 50 on their own. (as when would the necessity be for them to learn star passing right?   

 

Points A B C(depending) D from point 1.

 

3. Use the map:  Vaguely put but:

 

A. Getting hyperfocused with the screen in front of them to where thinking to use the map is secondary.

B. People's screen configurations where opening the map obscures there screen.

 

and others...

 

 

 

I can go on but my point is that there's a wide array of people that play this game, when we start condemning segments and making assumptions about them instead of working with them, that's not being very hero like really.  If you want to speak of a trend, Im seeing/hearing more people on our same server being pretentious and churlish towards others when an issue arises.  Sadly some of them are from well known SG's as well.

 

There's no need propagate or groom elitism.   If someone is level 50 or level 5, help them as best as one can.  

 

2 hours ago, OverkillEngine said:

 

Kind of sad really that so many other games have trained people to have that mentality since CoX is one of the few games where making a new alt and leveling them organically is actually fun on top of being a form of necessary instruction in learning how that specific character's build actually works. (As well as how to deal with certain content - powerleveled players aren't likely to know how to deal with Malta Sappers for example even if their build has the tools) Just changing out a primary or secondary set or some power pools within an AT can cause fairly large swings in function and effect.

 

A guy who said they're computer programer irl, I met on excelsior this week doesnt fit your mold there.   Their father is an avid player of the game according to them and they were extremely adamant that they didnt want to use xp boosters, power level in AE or on higher teams etc. They also tended to solo not a small amount of their time playing too.  And they played extensively each day. If I had to guess 8-10 hours a day this week.  They were adamant about the type of build they wanted to play (and it is/was far from optimal as some would judge), and they went from playing on Hero side to flipping to villain side (not by null the gull method either).  They were in their 20's when I met them and hit 50 yesterday.      

 

They've been having a blast they just kept gushing about the extensive slash commands for players in the game for example and reading wiki forums etc.

 

They of course have tons to learn about the game but, were they to join a BAF and had issues with some of the things listed by Oklah, then in some's eyes in this thread, they'd make assumptions concerning their leveling methods and incapabilities. 

 

Honestly, I just feel like sentiments being expressed in this thread resemble the worst sort of culture for HC vs encouraging and supporting new people, returnees, and other.  Overall,  it is a bit disappointing to see sentiments being expressed in part as they are by folks here.   

 

 

 

Edited June 17, 2023 by Sanguinesun

[Techwright]

Don't you wish we could put up an announcement upon a character's first login stating that this game is the journey and not the destination, therefore choose wisely?

[Snarky]

2 minutes ago, Techwright said:

Don't you wish we could put up an announcement upon a character's first login stating that this game is the journey and not the destination, therefore choose wisely?

Or "please don't stand on the ouro portal picking your nose..."

[Snarky]

5 hours ago, Oklahoman said:

...I expect you can do the most basic things in the game.

 

Had a BAF run the other day with a 50+1 to whom LFG had gifted the league star after we zoned in. They didn't respond to my tells, nor messages from others on their team. FINALLY they fixed it, then complained in league chat about everyone bombarding them with messages about the star.

 

 

Ya know, my first response to this I did not know it was a rockstar who posted.  Yes Oklahoman.  I mean you!   You rock.  YOU play at the highest level.  I never would have thought a PUG league could do Really Hard Way Magisterium.  Until I saw you drag the rabble through it and make it happen.  YOU are an S tier player.  

 

I have been blessed (or cursed) to see a few other S tier players.  Speed runners, Die Hard mode runners, ultimate badgers.  It is exhilarating and a bit disheartening.  Like listening to Unchained Melody by Righteous Brothers.  So good.  Then trying to sing...anything.  Oof.  I play better than I sing.  That is not saying a lot.  I'll be very generous and call myself an A tier player.  With certain conditions.  Not too much or too little coffee.  Not distracted by a weird day.  Have refreshed my memory on the content being run.  The wind is blowing in the right direction.  Nothing runs across the screen dragging a shiny object...

 

You Oklahoman, and a select tier of players are the ones that play at the top level.  The rest of us...  Well...we play!

[Yomo Kimyata]

29 minutes ago, Snarky said:

Die Hard mode runners

 

Are these the ones who only play on Christmas?

[Zep]

Its not like its obvious to someone on their first BAF/Itrial that the Star is going to change. Be nice if the Dev's would fix that.

 

Yes they should read tells, think how you would feel if a bunch of ppl spam you about something you didnt even know would be an issue and isnt obvious is goign to happen.  

[Oklahoman]

9 hours ago, Zep said:

Its not like its obvious to someone on their first BAF/Itrial that the Star is going to change. Be nice if the Dev's would fix that.

 

Yes they should read tells, think how you would feel if a bunch of ppl spam you about something you didnt even know would be an issue and isnt obvious is goign to happen.  

 

I do wish the bug would get fixed, but I doubt it ever will. I think we have to live with it and look forward to new and unique ways to earn PAPs.

 

I think (hope) people know I am normally very patient. This particular day the frustration really hit a new peak. I enjoyed the movie, though. 🙂 

 

[BjorJlen]

Hi all...

   I also think it is something else that few have even considered, and that is the "generation gap" of the player base. What I mean by this is how many players are ones' who used to play when the game was live, as opposed to the new players who have recently begun playing, let alone realize CoH even exists (still). We old timers were raised for the most part when, as @Techwright, playing the game was a journey, and not a destination. We have loads of experience, but as @OverkillEngine inferred, today's gamers are almost conditioned to get to the finish line as fast as possible. And generally speaking, that is perfectly fine, as the bottom line is to play the game how you want, and just have fun with it. However, we old folks know that there is far more to CoH then getting to the relative end, and then looking around and saying "Ok I'm here, what's next?"

   More and more I am seeing in chat new players who have high level characters entering the game and asking very basic questions which most would know if they had just played the game itself, done at least some of the basic content, and learned threw basic overall game experience. But as many have the general attention span of a squirrel, that just doesn't happen with many new gamers today sadly. However, it still warms my heart and makes me smile when this community still takes the time to teach these new players the in's and out's of the game, and answer some basic questions. It is a two way street though, and sadly some of us still experience new players trying to do high level content, while not having a clue how to do it. Which of course can make teams a bit more challenging to deal with.

   But take heart; hopefully with kind words and guidance, these new (and refreshing I might add) players will learn a thing or two in the process, and maybe even pay it forward by teaching others. Like life, there are good times and bad times (and teams), but with at least this community of old time players, we'll make it threw it. If not, we can always send them to @Snarky. God knows how much he loves dealing with such new players. Sloppy seconds indeed! lol 😁

[srmalloy]

14 hours ago, Snarky said:

Or "please don't stand on the ouro portal picking your nose..."

There have been times when I have wished that the area within 20' of the entry portal in Ouroboros, upon a character's arrival in the zone, applied a delayed effect that teleported the character into the middle of the central pool if they were still within that radius when the delay ran out; moving out of the radius would prevent it from activating. Sometimes I muse on the added humor of having the teleport send them 20' in the air over the central pool for them to drop into the water.

[JasperStone]

2 hours ago, srmalloy said:

There have been times when I have wished that the area within 20' of the entry portal in Ouroboros, upon a character's arrival in the zone, applied a delayed effect that teleported the character into the middle of the central pool if they were still within that radius when the delay ran out; moving out of the radius would prevent it from activating. Sometimes I muse on the added humor of having the teleport send them 20' in the air over the central pool for them to drop into the water.

This came up a while ago when I was on Indom, where it was not really an issue due to population.

 

Now that I am Excel it is.

Always seems like there are two masterminds just .... sitting there with pets out.

Edited June 18, 2023 by JasperStone
minor typos

[Snarky]

3 hours ago, srmalloy said:

There have been times when I have wished that the area within 20' of the entry portal in Ouroboros, upon a character's arrival in the zone, applied a delayed effect that teleported the character into the middle of the central pool if they were still within that radius when the delay ran out; moving out of the radius would prevent it from activating. Sometimes I muse on the added humor of having the teleport send them 20' in the air over the central pool for them to drop into the water.

Just need one little npc from Atlas.  Preferably looking like a school crossing guard.  Walking back and forth across the area.  Those things can push anyone

 

Better yet a janitor pushing a broom!

Edited June 18, 2023 by Snarky

[Frunobulax]

On 6/17/2023 at 3:06 PM, Veracor said:

Try not to get frustrated at powerlevelled newbies.  They probably learned about the game from an experienced player who was just powerlevelling their own alts to 50 and merely offered to do the same to their new friend, not realizing it's cutting a ton of contacts out for a new person and leaving them at the hands of LFG to figure out what to do.  The saddest AE baby I've ever encountered in iTrials didn't even know there were zones other than Atlas Park and Ouroboros -- they thought Atlas Park was Paragon City and that Ouroboros was a DLC from live.

 

Sometimes there's a lot of stupid to unpack.  Best you can do as a content leader is to have patience and then journal the experience afterward for comedy (after redacting names of course).

 

Not just deliberate powerleveling either. Sometimes (especially on the busiest server) pretty much every group lfm is either a speed, or ends up with multiple people capable of completely overpowering the content with gear and sets that didn't even exist when it was created.

 

A newbie doesn't know that in modern COH for a vast majority of the content if they want to get into an actual fight where people might have to do more then watch (if they can even get there in time to see) one player push a 2-button combo and then (maybe) mop up some almost-dead bosses, they have to deliberately curate the group and settings towards achieving that. And even then, most of the stuff that is accessible to new players on their way up is completely stompable on any settings for anybody with a bit of resources and experience.

 

Pugs in general can be a wasteland of powercreep where it's probably hard to learn much of anything at all, except that it's really, really easy to level up quickly.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Frunobulax

[Ghost]

Or, have a countdown timer.

After 30 seconds of standing within a certain distance of the portal, have the toons start losing levels (1 per second) and influence (1mill per second)

😈

 

[Snarky]

46 minutes ago, Frunobulax said:

 

Not just deliberate powerleveling either. Sometimes (especially on the busiest server) pretty much every group lfm is either a speed, or ends up with multiple people capable of completely overpowering the content with gear and sets that didn't even exist when it was created.

 

A newbie doesn't know that in modern COH for a vast majority of the content if they want to get into an actual fight where people might have to do more then watch (if they can even get there in time to see) one player push a 2-button combo and then (maybe) mop up some almost-dead bosses, they have to deliberately curate the group and settings towards achieving that. And even then, most of the stuff that is accessible to new players on their way up is completely stompable on any settings for anybody with a bit of resources and experience.

 

Pugs in general can be a wasteland of powercreep where it's probably hard to learn much of anything at all, except that it's really, really easy to level up quickly.

Too true.  On almost every PUG team I am on I am overgeared and know the fights so well.  Unless the boneheads do something like pull the door on last mission of Posi 1 I can handle nearly anything, whether on a Blaster or w/e.  For the Posi1 shadow fight I save huge team insp.  A couple purps mez prot red and mebbe a yellow.  Then just rain hell on the unsuspecting shadows.  Particularly fun with a Dom.  Just have them stand there and drool.

[Clave Dark 5]

I wouldn't even describe those as playing "the highest level in the game" so much as just "playing the game."

[OverkillEngine]

9 hours ago, Frunobulax said:

 

Not just deliberate powerleveling either. Sometimes (especially on the busiest server) pretty much every group lfm is either a speed, or ends up with multiple people capable of completely overpowering the content with gear and sets that didn't even exist when it was created.

 

A newbie doesn't know that in modern COH for a vast majority of the content if they want to get into an actual fight where people might have to do more then watch (if they can even get there in time to see) one player push a 2-button combo and then (maybe) mop up some almost-dead bosses, they have to deliberately curate the group and settings towards achieving that. And even then, most of the stuff that is accessible to new players on their way up is completely stompable on any settings for anybody with a bit of resources and experience.

 

Pugs in general can be a wasteland of powercreep where it's probably hard to learn much of anything at all, except that it's really, really easy to level up quickly.

True, I did the Penny Yin TF and the Caverns of Transcendence yesterday with some decidedly tricked out allies after having spent my time solo'ing and duo'ing my way out of Praetorian content and it was a heck of an adjustment since my normal power rotation and positioning stopped meaning as much during it.

If someone only had that sort of experience while leveling, they would have no idea what to do later on. Especially if they themselves are not at the same level of tricked out builds.

Edited June 19, 2023 by OverkillEngine

[Scarlet Shocker]

On 6/18/2023 at 1:11 AM, Techwright said:

Don't you wish we could put up an announcement upon a character's first login stating that this game is the journey and not the destination, therefore choose wisely?

 

I like this idea.

 

I think we suffer from the presumption that all players are vets but there does seem to be a significant influx of new/returning players who have either forgotten how the game works, or never knew in the first instance.

 

I also think that the ready availability of DXP and fast levelling via AE is  seriously damaging to the game overall. It allows people to race to 50 without engaging with the game in a meaningful way. They don't learn their characters, the ATs, Power sets nor do they get to team with players and thus understand the subtle synergies of their AT with others.

 

None of the above does the game generally or Homecming much good, especially in the longer term and in my opinion it's genuinely sad that so much content is simply missed out in the race to endgame.

 

Personally I'd like to see XP boosters removed from P2W entirely - and AE XP halved from base level. That would allow people to create and play missions for the sake of them while also encouraging teaming and actually playing the game. That said I'm under no illusion that this is a popular notion and I doubt it would get much traction in the community.

[tidge]

At least I know the OP wasn't about me, yet I want to say that I find the League interface to be somewhat tricky to navigate, especially if I am looking for a specific player name. The UI is visually cramped, more so depending on the length of player names... not to mention how busy it can get when monitoring teammates powers. A rookie may be just as likely to quit/kick someone from the league as they are to pass the star.

 

At least be thankful Incarnate trials are not content where folks have to go out of their way to pick specific players to lead teams or worry so much about balancing teams in a League.