World of Confusion: Why no XP?

[tidge]

Obligatory comments:

 

World of Confusion was best described as "Postage stamp of Confusion".

 

AoE Confuse powers (Attacks much more so than Toggles) are much improved by adding a %damage piece to them, because getting even a little bit of damage on a MOB means that you are in the running to collect a reward drop from it, even if the XP/Inf is fractional. Some folks will talk up the potential to stack a higher Magnitude Confuse (even if it is only a short time) by leveraging %Contagious Confusion in an AoE, but the reward drops are much more reliable than whatever the chance of an extra magnitude confuse is. Put that piece in single-target Confuses instead.

[Greycat]

11 minutes ago, tidge said:

AoE Confuse powers (Attacks much more so than Toggles) are much improved by adding a %damage piece to them, because getting even a little bit of damage on a MOB means that you are in the running to collect a reward drop from it, even if the XP/Inf is fractional. Some folks will talk up the potential to stack a higher Magnitude Confuse (even if it is only a short time) by leveraging %Contagious Confusion in an AoE, but the reward drops are much more reliable than whatever the chance of an extra magnitude confuse is. Put that piece in single-target Confuses instead.

 

The flip side of this being any attack means they *will* aggro on  you when the effect wears off, which may not always be desirable (and part of why I avoid some confuse sets, or the procs in them, on bread-and-butter single target effects.)

[Skyhawke]

Would the better idea just simply be to get rid of and replace powers that confuse? I have never understood why (crowd control can be done so much better with other sets AND give xp) mental powers were made to suck so much. Solo, you're using one of the powers in your set and it's actually screwing your leveling. On a team, it's screwing everyone's xp gains. 

[Ignatz the Insane]

2 hours ago, Skyhawke said:

Would the better idea just simply be to get rid of and replace powers that confuse? I have never understood why (crowd control can be done so much better with other sets AND give xp) mental powers were made to suck so much. Solo, you're using one of the powers in your set and it's actually screwing your leveling. On a team, it's screwing everyone's xp gains. 

I've seen this complaint many times over the years and it's still false.  You still get the majority of xp using Confuse if you or the team does at least some damage to each mob.  

[Hyperstrike]

3 hours ago, Greycat said:

 

The flip side of this being any attack means they *will* aggro on  you when the effect wears off,

Or when there's a side-switch mechanic.

Found that out with the Ghoul missions in First Ward.

Had the boss HEAVILY confused, and he was beaten down.

Then he side-switched and immediately attacked me.

One hit.  Two hits.  Three hits.  FLOOR!

Was I pissed?

[Arbegla]

If you really wanna have fun, play a MM and get confused. Your pets turn on you, and you immediately lose bodyguard mode.

[Hedgefund]

4 hours ago, Skyhawke said:

Would the better idea just simply be to get rid of and replace powers that confuse? I have never understood why (crowd control can be done so much better with other sets AND give xp) mental powers were made to suck so much. Solo, you're using one of the powers in your set and it's actually screwing your leveling. On a team, it's screwing everyone's xp gains. 

This was disproven with the chart in the 4th post of this very thread.

 

More details here if it helps: https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Confuse_(Status_Effect)#Confusion_and_Experience

 

The reality is, your xp is MORE EFFICIENT, with respect to rate of xp earned per unit time, by confusing mobs and hitting them with aoes to get a chunk of damage done.  You can't just sit there and let the confused mob attack without you attacking as well. 

[arcane]

5 hours ago, Skyhawke said:

Would the better idea just simply be to get rid of and replace powers that confuse? I have never understood why (crowd control can be done so much better with other sets AND give xp) mental powers were made to suck so much. Solo, you're using one of the powers in your set and it's actually screwing your leveling. On a team, it's screwing everyone's xp gains. 

Lol n00b

[Skyhawke]

1 hour ago, Hedgefund said:

This was disproven with the chart in the 4th post of this very thread.

 

More details here if it helps: https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Confuse_(Status_Effect)#Confusion_and_Experience

 

The reality is, your xp is MORE EFFICIENT, with respect to rate of xp earned per unit time, by confusing mobs and hitting them with aoes to get a chunk of damage done.  You can't just sit there and let the confused mob attack without you attacking as well. 

 

Oh, mea culpa, then. Good info to have. I've actively avoided using confuse power sets because I thought it borked xp. Shows what I know. 

[Luminara]

5 hours ago, Skyhawke said:

I have never understood why (crowd control can be done so much better with other sets AND give xp) mental powers were made to suck so much. Solo, you're using one of the powers in your set and it's actually screwing your leveling. On a team, it's screwing everyone's xp gains. 

 

You Confuse a spawn.  In defeating everything, you deal 50% of the damage, your enemies deal the other 50%.  You receive 80% of the XP you would receive if you dealt 100% of the damage to each critter.  You see a 20% loss of XP per critter, right?

Now factor in that you just defeated that spawn in half the time it would have otherwise taken you.  You might be "losing" 20% XP per critter, but you're defeating twice as many critters in the same period of time.  80 * 2 = 160% XP over time from using Confuses.

 

Now let's flip that set of numbers, and you only deal 20% of the total damage to the spawn that you Confused.  You still receive 50% of the XP you'd collect if you were the sole damage dealer, but you're defeating enemies five times as fast, thanks to all of that critter damage working for you.  50 * 5 = 250% XP over time.

 

There are, of course, other factors.  The time it takes to move from spawn to spawn.  Enemies buffing you (❤️ Rikti Guardians).  Inconsistent variables which have differing degrees of impact on your XP gain over time.  The basic premise remains, though: Confuses allow you to defeat enemies faster, and defeating enemies faster racks up XP faster.  What's lost in individual increments is far, far exceeded by the sum over time.

 

And, just as importantly, since drops aren't scaled by damage dealt, you still receive 100% of the drops you'd receive without Confuses, but you're receiving those drops at an accelerated rate.

 

Confuse is not only an incredibly utilitarian status effect, it's also one of the best ways to accelerate XP and drop rates.

[Greycat]

6 hours ago, Skyhawke said:

Would the better idea just simply be to get rid of and replace powers that confuse?

 

Not just no, but f*** no.

[OverkillEngine]

On 6/28/2023 at 11:00 AM, Herotu said:

I'm wondering why there's no XP for mobs that die attacking each other during World of Confusion?

 

I mean, it's a bit like Gang War, isn't it?

 

/shrug. I'm just wondering.

 

All confuses work that way. Why?

1) Confusion is more powerful than other status effects -
     A) A hold just takes a mob out of a fight temporarily, a confuse can make the affected mobs eliminate multiple other mobs.
     B) Fewer mobs have protection/resistance against it.
     C) It is often on powers that otherwise do not have an aggro component, meaning no risk for the caster.
     D) confused mobs will often cast beneficial powers *using their modifier* on the confusion caster instead of their allies.

2) A properly used confusion increases xp/time, which is the only xp metric that really matters when it comes to active gameplay since mobs are an infinitely renewable resource. Killing them faster is better. Getting mission rewards faster is better. Confusion effects help with speeding up both if you don't just stand there and let them beat on each other like you are a spectator at the Bum Fights.


TLDR; full xp from idle confusion defeats would make all other controls objectively inferior.

Edited July 1, 2023 by OverkillEngine

[Vulgaris]

The simple answer is "We have to remind mind controllers what dirt tastes like daily, for not picking anything we actively worked on or improved" (kidding)

Edited July 14, 2023 by Vulgaris

[MoonSheep]

On 6/29/2023 at 12:37 PM, Skyhawke said:

Would the better idea just simply be to get rid of and replace powers that confuse? I have never understood why (crowd control can be done so much better with other sets AND give xp) mental powers were made to suck so much. Solo, you're using one of the powers in your set and it's actually screwing your leveling. On a team, it's screwing everyone's xp gains. 

 

the difference it makes in XP gain is so minimal it’s likely not even measurable

 

unless the team was standing around watching each and every mob slowly kill themselves, it is a non issue

[High_Beam]

You are all forgetting the key rule here.  You shouldn't be rewarded for sucking and World of Confusion sucks. 🙂

 

[Herotu]

3 hours ago, High_Beam said:

World of Confusion sucks. 🙂

 

...

[Hyperstrike]

10 hours ago, High_Beam said:

You are all forgetting the key rule here.  You shouldn't be rewarded for sucking and World of Confusion sucks. 🙂

 

 

6 hours ago, Herotu said:

...

 

[Sailboat]

A point I haven't seen emphasized is that confuses are *mitigation* powers.   They protect the hero/team from damage, usually quite significantly.

 

Anything that  neutralizes most of the damage a spawn can deal, AND leads to defeating them faster, AND gives more exp per unit of time, is doing pretty well and needs neither to be removed from the game nor significantly buffed.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Sailboat