Hamidon Origin Enhancements

[tidge]

4 hours ago, Hedgefund2 said:

You are not RC (recalling correctly) here.  End Mod slotting in Chrono Shift definitely increases recovery for 30 seconds.

 

https://cod.uberguy.net./html/power.html?power=defender_buff.time_manipulation.chrono_shift&at=defender

 

The 15% endurance boost is not enhanceable.

 

Maybe I'll slot in the third piece I mentioned. As it is, I still want the initial Endurance cost of the click to be low enough that I'm not waiting for enough endurance to allow it to auto-fire.

[TalonBlue]

11 hours ago, Raikao said:

 

But wouldn't you want to use two lvl 53 Cytoskeleton in Tactics? And add Gaussian: Chance for BuildUp? Still only 3 slots instead of 6 (and having wasted recharge%).

 

You're not getting as much with the second Cytoskeleton Hami-O enhancement due to diminishing returns.

[macskull]

5 hours ago, Uun said:

Confirmed. Not sure why Power Boost doesn't increase recovery, since endmod is one of the attributes it buffs.

Power Boost doesn't affect end mod.

[FupDup]

5 minutes ago, TalonBlue said:

 

You're not getting as much with the second Cytoskeleton Hami-O enhancement due to diminishing returns.

Double Cytos barely hit ED even at level 53. 

 

To-Hit: 45.4% (46% without ED)

Endurance: 75.93% (76.59% without ED)

Edited August 8, 2023 by FupDup

[TalonBlue]

Just now, FupDup said:

Double Cytos barely hit ED even at level 53. 

 

To-Hit: 45.4% (46% without ED)

Endurance: 75.93% (76.59% without ED)

 

For a Controller:

 

One lvl 53 Cyto in Tactics per Mids is 12.3% To-Hit Buff @ .28 endurance per second.

Two lvl 53 Cyto in Tactics per Mids is 14.54% To-Hit Buff @ .22 endurance per second.

 

For a Defender

 

One lvl 53 Cyto in Tactics per Mids is 15% To-Hit Buff @ .29 endurance per second.

Two lvl 53 Cyto in Tactics per Mids is 18.18% To-Hit Buff @ .22 endurance per second.

 

We're talking about 2-3% for an extra lvl 53 Hami-O.

[FupDup]

26 minutes ago, TalonBlue said:

 

For a Controller:

 

One lvl 53 Cyto in Tactics per Mids is 12.3% To-Hit Buff @ .28 endurance per second.

Two lvl 53 Cyto in Tactics per Mids is 14.54% To-Hit Buff @ .22 endurance per second.

 

For a Defender

 

One lvl 53 Cyto in Tactics per Mids is 15% To-Hit Buff @ .29 endurance per second.

Two lvl 53 Cyto in Tactics per Mids is 18.18% To-Hit Buff @ .22 endurance per second.

 

We're talking about 2-3% for an extra lvl 53 Hami-O.

The first Hami-O only gives about 2-3% as well. The second is giving just slightly under twice the boost as the first (45.4% double vs 23% single, without ED you'd get only 46% enhancement).

 

Mids displays how much you're getting and how badly ED is hitting you. 

 

ED isn't taking much away in this example. 

Edited August 8, 2023 by FupDup

[srmalloy]

15 hours ago, TalonBlue said:

One lvl 53 Cyto in Tactics per Mids is 12.3% To-Hit Buff @ .28 endurance per second.

Two lvl 53 Cyto in Tactics per Mids is 14.54% To-Hit Buff @ .22 endurance per second.

You're making the mistake of taking the values with one enhancement as being what the enhancement gives you. You need to start with the values for the naked power — no enhancements — then look at the values with one and two enhancements to see how much each enhancement adds in net functional boost.

[Ironblade]

On 8/7/2023 at 8:40 PM, SwitchFade said:

If you min max your build, In 98% of cases IO slotting with optimal set bonuses will be superior to HOs.

Sounds about right.  In my case, I don't use Mids and I do extreme min-maxing on MAYBE 2-3 characters ever.

So I have good few characters with a handful of HO's in the build, but most of them have none because even without serious min-maxing, you can easily find a lot of good set bonuses.

 

 

On 8/7/2023 at 8:52 PM, Snarky said:

The other place I use them is when I just have one slot (the default)  sometimes slapping a Hami in there is marginally better (and a lot more expensive)

As an example of this, Ironblade has an acc/dam HO in Brawl.  When you exemp down to a stupid level, and lose most of your attacks, it actually comes in handy.

[Chance Jackson]

On 8/7/2023 at 4:19 PM, Vlardoom said:

For some reason I never really got into Hamidon.

Are the various enhancements worth it now vs sets?

 

I would appreciate feed back on value and which ones or all and what types(dmg/acc etc)

Thank you Vlar

 Many are all but worthless in the IO meta, a few like  Cytos have hyper inflated values due to superior enhancement %s, or effecting a greater # of attributes of a power than an IO or how the power it's slotted into works with an HO vs a similar IO, (Cytos are all 3!)

Cytos can be a night & day difference in select powers, tho the thought of someone using them for "tactics" of all things makes me want to cry

Edited August 9, 2023 by Chance Jackson
snobbery

[biostem]

I usually don't add slots to my travel powers, so throwing a Microfilament in there, if I can get my hands on one, is nice.  I similarly tend not to add slots to darkest night, so an enzyme gives you a nice 1-2 punch with its end cost reduction while buffing tohit debuffs.  Another standout is slotting 3 nucleolus HOs in your MM pets if you aren't going for a full IO set.

[Vlardoom]

Thank you all for great input and ideas.

Have a good day.

Vlar

[lemming]

One place HOs (and their Ilk) work well is for the times people turn off set bonuses for the TF.   Old School Recluse for instance.

[ZekeStenzland]

Whether you slot HOs or not is much like whether you slot damage procs or not. There’s not a unilateral right answer, it depends on what your goals are and depends highly on what the power is, what set bonuses you might be missing out on, and what you are getting in return. 
 

Particularly for powers that only have one slot, you’re not giving up a set bonus so HOs might be a much better option than a regular IO, especially if one doesn’t exist for the combo you want, or only exists in a set that’s not slottable in that power. For instance, the movement HO will buff run and fly, so you can put it in Swift, which doesn’t accept the Universal Travel sets. I think. 
 

I also like Acc/Mez and Dam/Mez HOs for powers that have multiple control abilities. This also covers pets that have multiple control abilities that dish out damage. An example might be the Symphonic Control pet. 
 

 

[Doomguide2005]

    Most commonly by far I use Membranes in Fortitude.  Unless something in sets has changed while I wasn't looking getting both To Hit and Defense in one IO set doesn't happen.  Add in recharge as an extra bonus.  Set IOs won't touch the slot efficiency in 2 Membranes and 1 LotG global which is typically how I go.  Frakkenslotting might get close in 4 but ...

[macskull]

On 8/9/2023 at 12:18 PM, Chance Jackson said:

Cytos can be a night & day difference in select powers, tho the thought of someone using them for "tactics" of all things makes me want to cry

 

(The fun part is this was a level 50 Cyto but I had like 11 extra in storage so why not make it a nice even 53?)

Edited August 11, 2023 by macskull

[tidge]

I also use a lvl 53 Cyto in Tactics on my MM. It's been forever since I checked how the lower-tier henchmen's ToHits look (with Supremacy, slotting, blah blah fishcakes) but the power is kept toggled on primarily for their benefit and I didn't want to burn slots in that power.

 

EDIT: That same character also uses a level 53 Cyto in Maneuvers, pretty much for the same reason.

Edited August 12, 2023 by tidge

[MoonSheep]

On 8/7/2023 at 9:19 PM, Vlardoom said:

For some reason I never really got into Hamidon.

Are the various enhancements worth it now vs sets?

 

I would appreciate feed back on value and which ones or all and what types(dmg/acc etc)

Thank you Vlar

 

your build should be 70-85% hami-os and you should buy them all from me*
 

*may be wholly incorrect and biased towards my own wealth 

[Scarlet Shocker]

Lots of good responses here. My own experience leads me to believe that Hamis are excellent supplements to a good Set build. Adding a couple of Hamis to a build can help round it out when you either aren't going to get a good percentage benefit from sets or you have a power that's just lacking some extra "oomph" and only have limited slots.

 

My basic rule of thumb is that if I have more than 3 slots need filling, then sets and/or procs go in them. But if I just have one or perhaps two at most that need something and there's nothing much gained from set bonuses, Hamis are a good option.

 

I might add a hami to a set of 4 Set IOs - but that would be rare. It's a case by case, given the needs of your character and play style.

 

Unless of course you decide to six slot Brawl with Hamis, just for the crack

[Shred Monkey]

I use them heavily in my builds.  My attacks often are proc-focused builds, and Hami-O's are the best way to get accuracy and damage in your non-proc slots.  I also use them in travel powers to get both speed and endurance reduction.  There are some other special case times I use them.  I think it's good to consider them any time you're planning to slot an SO or a IO, just in case there's an advantage to getting 2 boosts over 1.

[Yomo Kimyata]

Not to shill my own goods, but I'm at the point where almost all my end-game builds have at least a few HO/DSOs.  Most of the time that's to really squeeze out an extra half a percentage of something or other, which is hardly cost-effective but what do I care about that?!?  If I'm looking at two or three slots, and if I don't love the set bonus, that's where I'm going.  Generally I'll look to see if 1. is there a purple set I can +5 (41.4% Schedule A dual/33.1% triple); 2. Is there a lvl 53 HO/DSO I can put in there (38.3% Schedule A for both double and triple!); 3.  Two to four +5 lvl 50 pvp IOs for ok set bonuses that exempt down all the way; 4. How about a one-off double +5 from some set (This is usually A/E, 33/1% at 50)?

 

I mentioned Cytoskeletons before.  My standard for Weave, defense armors, maneuvers, etc is three slots total with an attuned LotG +recharge and two 53 cytos which gets you well into ED range on defense and slightly into ED for endurance/to hit.  3x Lotg (D, D/E, rech) puts you close enough on the defense side but much less endurance reduction, and that's not worth the small set bonuses to me.  Also, I'd consider Lotg rech, 2x +5 lvl 50 Shield Wall (D/E D/E/R) which gets you less defense and more endurance.  To me, the cytos are the best of both worlds (although I level up with the 3x lotg generally).

 

When playing scrappers or brutes, I generally split one or both of the ATO sets.  Throwing a 53 Nucleolus in there will generally get you at or deep into ED levels in both accuracy and damage (darned purple sets don't have an A/D set to +5!).

 

There are all kinds of things to do with toggles.  Cloak of Fear becomes quite good with 2x 53 enzymes and 2x 53 endoplasms.  Any endurance reducing power is generally enhanced with end mod/recharges (unless you want three slots with synapses shock for the slow resist) because I want that up faster.  I even find a spot or two for Perox every now or again.

[Crysis]

On 8/9/2023 at 3:39 PM, biostem said:

I usually don't add slots to my travel powers, so throwing a Microfilament in there, if I can get my hands on one, is nice.  I similarly tend not to add slots to darkest night, so an enzyme gives you a nice 1-2 punch with its end cost reduction while buffing tohit debuffs.  Another standout is slotting 3 nucleolus HOs in your MM pets if you aren't going for a full IO set.

I was a bit surprised I had to get this far in the thread without someone mentioning pet slotting, esp for MM AT.

 

For that matter, anyone who procs out their attacks usually is already sacrificing some IO bonus here or there in favor of more damage.  HO/D-Syncs are great in these powers to shore up either Acc, DMG or both.  If you are already frankenslotting it’s a good idea to see if you can free up a slot and still min/max within that particular power.

 

Likewise for MM pets since they typically have multiple powers of their own that make it hard sometimes to fully max out with traditional pet IO sets.  And almost all MM’s are starved for slots.

 

The recent makeover Necro pets got screams for several HO/D-Sync opportunities, especially with the two “power up” enchantments.  Those used to be 1-slot wonders but since one is +Res and the other is +Regen/Heal they now benefit greatly from 2-3 slots each.  Ribosome’s and Golgi’s or equivalents in particular.  
 

“Min/Max” isn’t just for full builds.  There’s plenty of one or two slot powers that can be effectively min/maxed with just two slots that would benefit from HO/D-Sync slotting.

[Riverdusk]

Radiation infection is another classic power to use them in.  Tohit debuff, defense debuff, and endurance reduction all in one.    

[Azari]

Every build needs a hami SOMEWHERE...