Officially Unofficial Weekly Discussion #42: The Shadow Shard

[SeraphimKensai]

From a level design standpoint the shard (especially Cascade Archipelago) are some of the coolest looking zones in the game. Although they are generally fairly empty with the occasional group running a TF for a weekly. 

 

What do you like or don't like about the Shadow Shard (Firebase Zulu, Cascade Archipelago, The Chantry, The Storm Palace)? What do you think about the zone design? The mission availability? The task force design for each of the TFs? What would you change about the Shadow Shard?

 

 

 

Personally I'd make them co-op zones, give the villains a means in, and then try to redesign the feel of the shard so it's like Lanaru is trying to invade the primal dimension and perhaps give them limited breeches. Also I'd make them incarnate level zones as well, and ramp up the story of the zone, while redesigning the TFs to make them narrative driven and not just time sinks.

 

As always thanks.

[A Cat]

I've explored a tiny bit but it is quite inconvenient for most of my doods to get around since I only have a couple with flight or tp. Haven't done any TF's or missions. 

[Greycat]

I would *not* make them incarnate zones. Put in some incarnate content, sure, but leave the range as it is.

 

Personally, even though they're *large* zones, I like the Shard in general, and think it's a shame that (a) there's not much to do there and (b) people don't use the geysers to get around more. Possibly because everyone's in such a rush to do things. The task force design can use a little updating, sure, but it really needs *missions* and *arcs* to explore while there.

 

I generally don't like "make it a coop zone!" but... yeah, there's not really any reason this wouldn't be. (Just have to explain why SuperHeroDude isn't punching EvilVillainGuy in the face when they cross paths.)

 

So, what I'd do:

- Go over the TFs, streamline a bit where *absolutely* needed (sometimes you *do* have to defeat a bunch of stuff in a bunch of places, after all.)

- Create missions, both regular and incarnate.  Give people reason to go and keep going besides a WTF.

- Let Kora fruit give something special. They got nerfed back on live, as I recall.

- Badges for travel-by-geyser. And for falling. >.>

[Greycat]

4 minutes ago, A Cat said:

I've explored a tiny bit but it is quite inconvenient for most of my doods to get around since I only have a couple with flight or tp. Haven't done any TF's or missions. 

I seem to recall there being jetpack vendors...

[lemming]

32 minutes ago, Greycat said:

So, what I'd do:

- Go over the TFs, streamline a bit where *absolutely* needed (sometimes you *do* have to defeat a bunch of stuff in a bunch of places, after all.)

- Create missions, both regular and incarnate.  Give people reason to go and keep going besides a WTF.

- Let Kora fruit give something special. They got nerfed back on live, as I recall.

The TFs could use a bit of streamlining, especially the hunt 50 and up ones.

There are repeatables already, but they're pretty cookie cutter

Speaking of:  Yep, Kora Fruit used to be a large inspiration.  They got cut back to medium on live after people were harvesting, then selling them.

 

Things that have been on my list for the Shard:

1) Shrink them down a bit possibly by 1/2.

2) Fix the geysers so they actually shoot you toward the landing spots whatever travel power besides flight you may have active.  Only if you hit a movement key should it not land you in the intended target area.  (That would go for the ski area ones as well)

 

Incarnate content sure, but not the zones themselves.

 

Co-op, there does seem to be some interest from the redside, I even think there's some mention in one of the HC arcs, plus some of the older content hints at it.

 

Then of course, it seems the whole Battalion bit where Rularu was to be used against it, but I don't even know if the original devs had that figured out.

[lemming]

43 minutes ago, Greycat said:

I seem to recall there being jetpack vendors...

Jetpack vendors got replaced by p2w vendors, but then the p2w vendors were removed "recently" from the Cascades, Chantry, and Storm Palace.  Firebase Zulu still has one, but will not sell to you if you are on a TF.  (I just updated the wiki about those...)

[Snarky]

Surprisingly bright and sunny for the most part...

[Thraxen]

TFs need revamped. Just too long, too spread out, and too repetitive. It’s like a radio team you’re locked into and all the missions might as well be in another zone. One AV at the end is neat but by the time you get there you just wanna kill it and be done. Some may have more AVs but I don’t remember cause all I remember is the drudge of it. 

[Techwright]

I'm not a big fan of the broken terrain.  Cool to look at, a pain to navigate.  I've also no reason to go to maybe 80% of the floating islands. (The other 20% or so have the forts.) The layout per island may be different, but their contents and function are all the same.  I'd much prefer if each island had its own unique identity, or more likely, a cluster of islands near each other shared a unique concept or look.  The space between them is dead, too.  If we have to be making these journeys, why not keep things interesting?

 

Agreed with others on revamping the TFs.

[Clave Dark 5]

Pretty to look at, but I was never able to manage the geysers in the Pocket D winter zone, so there's no way I wanna play that game, or to try playing that game, when a team is waiting on me (that's not "being in such a rush").  I stopped attempting the TFs because the few running them were in "such a rush" and exhibited the worst aspects of "what do you mean you don't have all this memorized and took the Incarnate TP power, I shall now roll my eyes verbally and dramatically*"  What I do recall of them, they were indeed too long.

 

*No, not a quote, but the meaning was direct.

[UltraAlt]

9 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

What do you like or don't like about the Shadow Shard (Firebase Zulu, Cascade Archipelago, The Chantry, The Storm Palace)?

 

I have to think I have been in Firebase Zulu or The Storm Place more than any of the other locations in the Shadow Shard.

 

I use Firebase Zulu to get the Shadow Shard Day Job for the flight pack on characters I don't intend on getting travel powers on and want a flight power that I can use in combat. https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Dimensional_Explorer_Badge I head there from the wormhole near the tram in Atlas most of the time.

 

The Storm Palace seems unnecessarily difficult to get into.

 

9 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

What do you think about the zone design?

 

The visuals of the zone are nice.

The initial idea of having all the travel (if you didn't have flight) to be done by the geyer system was way too platform video game (and entirely unnecessary related to the rest of the game - like adding the floating coins over the heads of contacts!). Very annoying.

 

I had to respec one of my characters simply so they could travel to The Storm Place. I rarely ever /respec a character and so I was pretty aggravated that I felt like I had to respec in order to follow the contact's mission list to completion.

 

I really wish https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Rularuu_Invasion_Event_2004 was part of the event cycle in the game.

I can't say how awesome that was within like a week of starting to play to see that event happen. Hugh floating eyeballs popping out of portals all over THE CITY!

I was new so I'm like fighting Hellions or Outcast or skulls maybe and then next thing I know these dimensional abnormalities are attacking!

 

9 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

The task force design for each of the TFs?

 

I haven't attempted to run any of these task forces since I've been back, but I have told that having a team full of characters with Team Teleport makes it much more doable in a reasonable amount of time.

 

That being said, I think all Task forces need to be broken down in segments that can be played within 30-60 minutes for an average team. Honestly, partially this is due to the fact that I know there are people that will never get to enjoy the task forces that take 3+ hours to run due to the time constraints on their gaming.

 

9 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

What would you change about the Shadow Shard?

 

The DEVs already added the day job flight pack which makes a huge difference.

The ability to get the Team Transporter from the P2W makes a huge difference as well.

They both help to remedy the main issues I have encountered with the zone.

 

I have rarely gamed in the zone since I started playing on Homecoming so I can't really give any more input other than that.

 

9 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Personally I'd make them co-op zones, give the villains a means in, and then try to redesign the feel of the shard so it's like Lanaru is trying to invade the primal dimension and perhaps give them limited breeches.

 

Makes sense.

Just as much of a reason for villains to take part in the Shadow Shard as in the First or Night Wards.

 

One would figure that the villains would have just as much reason to keep the Rularuu from invading for the same reason that they would be fighting against the Rikti.

 

9 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Also I'd make them incarnate level zones as well, and ramp up the story of the zone, while redesigning the TFs to make them narrative driven and not just time sinks.

 

I'm against this.

The zones are part of the leveling experience.

 

If the DEVs want to add some Incarnate stuff to the zone fine, but leave it as it is.

 

 

My Magic Origin character in the low 30's was given a mission to go to Dark Astoria and kill like 20 of one enemy group or another (too lazy to switch characters in the moment and see which group). Well, you know, that's not going to happen with the game changes that have been done to the zone.

Maybe not breaking parts of the original game is a good idea?

[High_Beam]

Again I totally agree with the first post from @Greycat.  The Shard is a very panoramic place that while a PITA to navigate around has a sense of wonder to it.  Let villains get in, absolutely; its not like they don't have dimensional portal traveling shenanigan ability (Technician Naylor, and of course Aeon).  It makes complete sense.

 

The suggestion about tightening up the Task Forces is spot on . . . so many Defeat on the complete opposite side of where you are then afterwards the opposite side of where you are.  More missions, I mean there are a number of other aspects of Rularuu besides Faathim and Ruladak represented.

 

Story content - Maybe they get into what the Factory Cubes are, or what creates the Reflections.  Chularn the Slave Lord , or Aloore the Watcher (I cannot remember the others offhand without digging around in the Wiki) would make for nice additional EB or AV enemies to fight.  And if you consider the AMA Lore coupled with the aspects and ramifications of the Who Will Die SSA, the Shard will have played a significant role in the Incarnate vs Battalion Coming Storm (TM) shtick.  Plus there is always a Nemesis Plot (not available in all locations, sorry Tennessee).

 

as for Kora, the only Kora I know is CORA, the AI computer that helped Starbuck deal with that abandoned Colonial Prison on Proteus . . . but I digress.

[Coyotedancer]

The Reflections belong to Uuralur, the Keeper of the Garden of Memories. He's another of the "Sir Not-Appearing-in-This-Game" aspects of Rularuu that we never run into as player characters...

 

The Shard zones are, bar none, my favorite pieces of real estate in the entire game. I'm even fonder of them than I am of Primeva. Back in the day, the characters that I played (my beloved "bird things", a group of which I have here on Excelsior-) were almost all members of a species of non-canon Rularuu. They were Faathim's creatures. His attempt to create guardians to protect the Shard's human natives from the servants of his brother-aspects.

 

I used to just take one of my crew out there to randomly fly around and look at things pretty regularly. 'Gather up a horde of eyeballs and then outfly them, diving around the islands and rocks until they forget about me. Bouncing around on the geysers for the sheer fun of it. I still do that sometimes. (Yeah, I play fliers almost exclusively, so that gives me an advantage when it comes to navigating those zones, and my enjoyment of the landscape is no doubt heavily influenced by that. I've also been out there enough over the years to actually KNOW parts of those zones.  I can navigate them without the map.)

 

I sort-of enjoy the relative emptiness of those zones, and their size... I'd argue very strongly against making them smaller. The sense of vastness is a big part of their appeal. 

 

Make them co-op? YES. Absolutely. Please do!  I've always wished that my red-side birds could "go home" as easily as their blue-side cousins can. Having half of the flight cut off from the Shard never made me a happy camper. 

 

Incarnate content? Sure. Why not? That would mingle well with it being co-op.... Just don't make it an Incarnate-exclusive zone. 

 

Streamline the TFs? Yeah... I'm for that, too. There's just way too much filler in some of them. (Doc Q... I'm looking right at you, buster. <_<) Adding a couple more for the as0yet-unseen aspects would also be fun, though I know it's a lot of work.

 

All that said... This is another case where I hope The Powers That Be are cautious and thoughtful about what they change. I'm wary of them trying so hard to "fix" the Shard that they end up ruining it. But then, as I said in the Magic thread, I worry about that with the Oranbegans, too. I'll have those concerns about any part of the game world that I've heavily tied my crew of characters into.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 23, 2023 by Coyotedancer

[cranebump]

I'd replace the spouts with location-TP portals. The name of the game these days is about speed, so offer the quicker option. If people want to take the trad route around the zone, they still can (as with the other zones). 

 

I can't offer anything substantive on content, since I haven't run any of the normal stories in ages. I've only gone there to run Doc Quarterhell. I may have to put this on my agenda, since I'm now curious what I've forgotten.

Edited August 24, 2023 by cranebump

[drbuzzard]

I've always thought the shard was the most magnificent looking zones in the game. However the content in it is fairly meh. Of course it is really old and hasn't been revised, so it's not particularly fair to dump on it. 

 

The TFs are generally too long with too much travel, kill alls, and hunts. They could all use revision which mostly would only require streamlining IMO. Remove the kill alls and hunts, then keep the missions in the zone unless completely necessary for story. If zone travel is necessary provide a portal or transport. The stories are all good enough and can remain. A revision wouldn't be that flashy, but I would guess the work could be kept minimal, and it would greatly increase zone appeal having TFs worth doing for other than WST purposes. 

 

The repeatable missions are meh, and honestly I don't know what to suggest there. I'm not sure they are worth working much on. People hate fighting Ruularu enemies and are unlikely to chase repeatables no matter how shiny. Perhaps restore kora fruit to the old glory at the least. That would be comparable unimportant but offer something. 

 

The geysers can either be replaced by portals or work as suggested above (by Lemming) without influence of travel powers so they aren't a trap. 

 

Some sort of zone event like a MSR raid but fighting Ruladek or whatever baddie is appropriate in the Storm Palace would be pretty damned cool, but perhaps more work than is worth it. 

 

Also, I support the coop notion. The shard hosts world ending threats and villains mostly want a world around to loot or rule. 

[Troo]

On 8/22/2023 at 1:09 PM, SeraphimKensai said:

Personally I'd make them co-op zones, give the villains a means in, and then try to redesign the feel of the shard so it's like Lanaru is trying to invade the primal dimension and perhaps give them limited breeches. Also I'd make them incarnate level zones as well, and ramp up the story of the zone, while redesigning the TFs to make them narrative driven and not just time sinks.

 

Some of the mini games are fun. Adding a Siren's Call style zone event to a non-pvp zone would be cool.

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Battle_for_Siren's_Call

[Akisan]

11 hours ago, Coyotedancer said:

The Shard zones are, bar none, my favorite pieces of real estate in the entire game.

 

11 hours ago, Coyotedancer said:

I used to just take one of my crew out there to randomly fly around and look at things pretty regularly. 'Gather up a horde of eyeballs and then outfly them, diving around the islands and rocks until they forget about me. Bouncing around on the geysers for the sheer fun of it. I still do that sometimes. (Yeah, I play fliers almost exclusively, so that gives me an advantage when it comes to navigating those zones, and my enjoyment of the landscape is no doubt heavily influenced by that. I've also been out there enough over the years to actually KNOW parts of those zones.  I can navigate them without the map.)

 

Yay, kindred sprit! Love bouncing around the shards, though I don't fly (SJ here), so lots of Gravity Jet use!  (Side note- one of the jets just rockets you out into open space, don't use that one)

 

9 hours ago, cranebump said:

I'd replace the spouts with location-TP portals. The name of the game these days is about speed, so offer the quicker option. If people want to take the trad route around the zone, they still can (as with the other zones).

 

Please no.  The jets are so much fun to play around in, and once you know your way around the zones they're much faster than traditional methods.

 

As for easily teleporting around the zones - part of the existing zone storyline includes the molepoints, which are progressively revealed as you progress. You can teleport to/from Firebase Zulu and these bases.  I'd love to see more of these bases added, along with extending that storyline and/or branching some of the new content off of those points.

 

I'm not sure about making the shard Co-op - as Crey and Nemesis have proven, there's a lot of profit to be had by exploiting the shard, so Villains probably won't have the same goal as Heroes out there. A "world threatening" hook to unify the sides could allow it, but we already have that in DA and the RWZ.  I'm also not ok with making the shards PvP (factional or freefire), so maybe 2 instances of them (red & blue)?  It'd add to the mystery if you could glimpse "echoes" of players that are in the opposite faction mirror.

 

I'm... not sure either way for making it an incarmate zone.  I kinda like being able to just fool around in FBZ without constantly aggroing everything that I pass (...stupid grey DA enemies...), but there's definitely potential for that kind of storyline in the deeper shards.

[cranebump]

I’m not saying replace the jets. Just offer another option for people who don’t want to use them. I know we have jet packs (they’re what I use with my non flyers). I just think you’ll get a bit more play in the zone if people can get around more quickly. Since the name of the game for a lot of players is that next level, taking a slow jog around a massive zone is not the shortest distance between two points.

 

(though I imagine a lot of folks now would tote TT's there to get from mish to mish [and mish TP + ATT] - so maybe transport doesn't really matter anymore)

Edited August 24, 2023 by cranebump

[Uun]

On 8/22/2023 at 6:17 PM, lemming said:

Jetpack vendors got replaced by p2w vendors, but then the p2w vendors were removed "recently" from the Cascades, Chantry, and Storm Palace.  Firebase Zulu still has one, but will not sell to you if you are on a TF.  (I just updated the wiki about those...)

There are enhancement vendors in Firebase Zulu, Chantry and Storm Palace and combat medics in all 4 zones that sell inspirations. I don't see why those couldn't sell jetpacks as well.

[cranebump]

14 hours ago, drbuzzard said:

I've always thought the shard was the most magnificent looking zones in the game. However the content in it is fairly meh. Of course it is really old and hasn't been revised, so it's not particularly fair to dump on it. 

 

The TFs are generally too long with too much travel, kill alls, and hunts. They could all use revision which mostly would only require streamlining IMO. Remove the kill alls and hunts, then keep the missions in the zone unless completely necessary for story. If zone travel is necessary provide a portal or transport. The stories are all good enough and can remain. A revision wouldn't be that flashy, but I would guess the work could be kept minimal, and it would greatly increase zone appeal having TFs worth doing for other than WST purposes. 

I think we've hit the nail on the head right here. A lack of memorable content, and the zone TF's are slogs. Since none of them are part of a requirement to get a badge power (i.e., TF Commander), there's little reason to spend the time there. I mean, let's be honest - who among us would bother with Cit and Synapse if they weren't part of the badge chain? That said, isn't Doc Quarterfield worth a ton of merits (is it 112?). You'd think you'd see more frequent runs, just for that.

[High_Beam]

24 minutes ago, Uun said:

There are enhancement vendors in Firebase Zulu, Chantry and Storm Palace and combat medics in all 4 zones that sell inspirations. I don't see why those couldn't sell jetpacks as well.

And Ice Cream.  

 

Mmmmm

 

Vanilla Build

Rularuu Rocky Road

Ruladak Rainbow Sherbert

Faathim the Carmel

 

[SeraphimKensai]

2 hours ago, High_Beam said:

And Ice Cream.  

 

Mmmmm

 

Vanilla Build

Rularuu Rocky Road

Ruladak Rainbow Sherbert

Faathim the Carmel

 

If you like ice cream that much, better get yourself an ice cream banana plant.

[High_Beam]

Firebase Zulu is a military run facility, there is a damn good chance they contracted with some half-assed Baskin-Robbins knockoff that came in as lowest bidder and is in the PX/NEX Food Court there along with Pizza Inn, Robin Hood Subs and McGrungy's.

[Without_Pause]

The biggest needs are TF revamps and more missions as reasons to go there. I used the Day Job badge to travel around for the sake of badges within the zone. 

[UltraAlt]

4 hours ago, Uun said:

There are enhancement vendors in Firebase Zulu, Chantry and Storm Palace and combat medics in all 4 zones that sell inspirations. I don't see why those couldn't sell jetpacks as well.

 

Makes sense. There is a vendor in First Ward that sells "Group Fly".