Any teaser what is being worked on? (January 2024 edition)

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, drbuzzard said:

5 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

You don't have to breeze through relentless-set to breeze through the normal version and still get bored.  Those and 50 PI radio missions against Council, an endless parade of Yins and whatever has the high number of merits this week, people breeze those all the time.

 

Oh, so you're complaining that old easy stuff is easy. I see. 

Well, to be fair, I don't see any calls for Relentless difficulty ITFs or Aeons. I don't even see calls for 2-stars or above. Sometimes I hear a 1-star call, but usually it's just a normal faceroll, I mean steamroll, I mean play through. (It's kind of like players wanted more difficult content until they got it, but I'm not going to make that accusation.)

[Sakura Tenshi]

Honestly, the Council Radios and Yins are just a side effect of both groups originating from launch content and not having been as well designed for higher levels of play even by launch content levels of power players could get to. (Just like so many TFs featuring normal bosses as if they'd be a challenge for 8 man teams) They've gotten some incremental additions like Galaxies, Super Stunners, etc. but they still lag in powerlevel compared to, say, Arachnos. It feels especially egregious with Freakshow because they've had interesting additions given to them but they end up being only one offs like Sneaky Freaks, Rikti Freaks, and Noise Tanks.

[Glacier Peak]

Making and breaking things takes time. Ideas from different volunteers start out as concepts, sometimes they get implemented, sometimes not, only for the outcome to be unsatisfactory once finally tested by other volunteers.

 

In my opinion, it's reasonable to ask what's going on with development. I would say to folks who are both curious AND interested in supporting the development of content to go join the closed beta testers. Or look at other ways to support this gaming community if you have the time. 

[Seed22]

20 hours ago, drbuzzard said:

So you guys are breezing through relentless Aeons and ITFs? Damn, that's impressive. 

I get what you're saying, but to rebuttle, relentless isn't all that difficult, just....tedious. So very very tedious. At least Aeon makes it kinda worth your while by giving 10 extra PAPs for the AV fight. I think HM overall is a big failure and waste of resources that could of been spent elsewhere, but that's a rant for a whole 'nother thread. And just using the smallest amount of common sense, two TFs aren't going to satisfy people for long.

[Rudra]

12 minutes ago, Sakura Tenshi said:

Honestly, the Council Radios and Yins are just a side effect of both groups originating from launch content and not having been as well designed for higher levels of play even by launch content levels of power players could get to. (Just like so many TFs featuring normal bosses as if they'd be a challenge for 8 man teams) They've gotten some incremental additions like Galaxies, Super Stunners, etc. but they still lag in powerlevel compared to, say, Arachnos. It feels especially egregious with Freakshow because they've had interesting additions given to them but they end up being only one offs like Sneaky Freaks, Rikti Freaks, and Noise Tanks.

At launch, several bosses were difficult. Mainly because Tankers and Scrappers only got to use 1 (non-auto) armor at a time and several factions, like the Tsoo and Malta, had a wide variety of damage types and secondary effects, even from a single mob. So to face off against that boss Gunslinger, do you use your mez protection armor and get eaten by the smash/lethal damage, the fire damage, or the cold damage? Or do you use your smash/lethal armor and get mezzed, then eaten by the fire and cold damage? So on and so forth. So you needed a support to help protect you from harm and heal you, a Tanker or sturdy Scrapper to hold the boss' attention, and everyone else dogpiled from another angle. (A well-coordinated team of a team of players experienced at dealing with those threats under those limitations became more than capable of dealing with those threats, but at the time, I wan't seeing very many such teams.) Then EBs were introduced. (Then AVs became downgradable to EBs so soloists could clear their missions.) So is isn't that the factions weren't capable of keeping up against a team at launch, its that it became easier to faceroll bosses when Jack's limitations were removed from the game.

[Rudra]

1 minute ago, Seed22 said:

And just using the smallest amount of common sense, two TFs aren't going to satisfy people for long.

Again, to be fair, the devs did say they were looking at proliferating Hard Mode (Advanced Difficulty) to the other TFs and SFs. (I would say it is rather difficult to convince yourself to do so however, if the TFs that currently have them, aren't seeing them being used.)

[drbuzzard]

3 minutes ago, Rudra said:

At launch, several bosses were difficult. Mainly because Tankers and Scrappers only got to use 1 (non-auto) armor at a time and several factions, like the Tsoo and Malta, had a wide variety of damage types and secondary effects, even from a single mob. So to face off against that boss Gunslinger, do you use your mez protection armor and get eaten by the smash/lethal damage, the fire damage, or the cold damage? Or do you use your smash/lethal armor and get mezzed, then eaten by the fire and cold damage? So on and so forth. So you needed a support to help protect you from harm and heal you, a Tanker or sturdy Scrapper to hold the boss' attention, and everyone else dogpiled from another angle. (A well-coordinated team of a team of players experienced at dealing with those threats under those limitations became more than capable of dealing with those threats, but at the time, I wan't seeing very many such teams.) Then EBs were introduced. (Then AVs became downgradable to EBs so soloists could clear their missions.) So is isn't that the factions weren't capable of keeping up against a team at launch, its that it became easier to faceroll bosses when Jack's limitations were removed from the game.

 

Now admittedly, I only showed up in issue 1, so I don't know issue 0 beyond hearsay, but I though exclusive armors were only in beta. Now there were limitations, as in invulnerability and stone both had to be immobile to have status protection (before the T9), plus fire had very odd status protection. Those certainly were limitations. Heck, a regen scrapper had no status protection until 28 (was still true till recently though it's not like anyone plays regen scrappers anymore). 

 

In the time between GND and IOs you certainly needed support on a tank if you weren't granite. It is certainly arguable that for normal non hard mode content, people are over powered. Oh well, that's what MMOs have you do- chase power. 

[drbuzzard]

11 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

I get what you're saying, but to rebuttle, relentless isn't all that difficult, just....tedious. So very very tedious. At least Aeon makes it kinda worth your while by giving 10 extra PAPs for the AV fight. I think HM overall is a big failure and waste of resources that could of been spent elsewhere, but that's a rant for a whole 'nother thread. And just using the smallest amount of common sense, two TFs aren't going to satisfy people for long.

 

Just using the smallest amount of common sense, any update isn't going to satisfy people for long. 

[Rudra]

20 minutes ago, drbuzzard said:

 

Now admittedly, I only showed up in issue 1, so I don't know issue 0 beyond hearsay, but I though exclusive armors were only in beta. Now there were limitations, as in invulnerability and stone both had to be immobile to have status protection (before the T9), plus fire had very odd status protection. Those certainly were limitations. Heck, a regen scrapper had no status protection until 28 (was still true till recently though it's not like anyone plays regen scrappers anymore). 

 

In the time between GND and IOs you certainly needed support on a tank if you weren't granite. It is certainly arguable that for normal non hard mode content, people are over powered. Oh well, that's what MMOs have you do- chase power. 

Uhm... what? I never played on beta. I only played on Live. And we were limited to a single active armor until Jack left the game. (Also, my best friend in the game mains a Broadsword/Regeneration Scrapper. And she does very well on it. She mained that character even back on Live.)

[drbuzzard]

4 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Uhm... what? I never played on beta. I only played on Live. And we were limited to a single active armor until Jack left the game. (Also, my best friend in the game mains a Broadsword/Regeneration Scrapper. And she does very well on it. She mained that character even back on Live.)

 

For what sets? Fire used to be able to use all their armors in i1 onwards (they only have 2 of course, but you could use both I know that). That's the only tank I played in i2. I didn't play invulnerability before i3 because of the immobile status protection. Once i3 hit, armors stacked just fine, tankers got a damage buff, and the immobile status protection powers were made mobile. Emmert did not leave in i3. 

 

Though let's also be honest when talking about non stacking armor, by the time you hit high level in i0-2 you could take perma versions of the T9 click powers. Invulnerability tanks would rock perma-unstoppable and SR scrappers would be in perma-elude. 

 

Before i3 there were 4 tank armors: Fire, Ice, Stone, invulnerability. Stone had granite which made the rest of the set mostly moot (mud pots and rooted were still handy). Invulnerability could stack invincibility and perma-unstoppable and have capped resistance to all but psi plus massive defense (at the cost of periodic crashes). Ice leaned on energy absorption for defense, and still does. Fire had quirky resistances (healing flames for stun resistance anyone?), but you could run both armors just fine. 

 

On the scrapper side you had regen, which would allow integration and instant healing to stack. SR and Invuln just ran their perma T9s. Only dark had the red haired stepchild position of non stacking armor weakness. 

 

There were gaps before you got to the powerful levels, and then you needed support on some builds, but certainly not all. I mean the example given is Malta which is level 45+. Most people would have ways of getting around any single armor limitation. 

[Rudra]

13 minutes ago, drbuzzard said:

For what sets? Fire used to be able to use all their armors in i1 onwards (they only have 2 of course, but you could use both I know that). That's the only tank I played in i2. I didn't play invulnerability before i3 because of the immobile status protection. Once i3 hit, armors stacked just fine, tankers got a damage buff, and the immobile status protection powers were made mobile. Emmert did not leave in i3. 

Am pretty sure all of them? I mained a Dark/Dark Scrapper, and could only use 1 active armor at a time. I could use Dark Embrace for Smash/Lethal/Negative. Or I could use Obsidian Shield for mez protection. Or I could use Murku Cloud for Fire/Cold/Energy. Made fighting Tsoo spawns of Yellow Inkmen, Dragon Inkmen, and Green Inkmen rather frustrating.

 

I played with friends that played Invulnerability, and they also only had 1 active armor at a time. (Though Invulnerability also had the benefit of auto-powers.)

[drbuzzard]

17 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Am pretty sure all of them? I mained a Dark/Dark Scrapper, and could only use 1 active armor at a time. I could use Dark Embrace for Smash/Lethal/Negative. Or I could use Obsidian Shield for mez protection. Or I could use Murku Cloud for Fire/Cold/Energy. Made fighting Tsoo spawns of Yellow Inkmen, Dragon Inkmen, and Green Inkmen rather frustrating.

 

I played with friends that played Invulnerability, and they also only had 1 active armor at a time. (Though Invulnerability also had the benefit of auto-powers.)

 

 

Invulnerability at the time had potentially 3 toggles - temporary invulnerability (silly name for a toggle), unyielding stance, and invincibility. People would skip temp invulnerability and use tough from the fighting pool instead (which would work with other toggles). Then they'd run teleport plus unyielding stance until they got past 32 and could slot up unstoppable to run alongside invincibility. Unstoppable was able to be up all the time, though with a mean crash that could certainly get you killed. As it was a click power you could run it alongside invincibility which was your toggle. Between those two slotted up, you'd be getting 90% resistance to all but psi (toxic didn't exist yet), lots of status protection, endurance recovery, and very high defense when surrounded. 

 

Fire had 2 toggles, fire shield and plasma shield, they could both run at the same time. I know because my first 50 was a fire tank. Status protection was really weird (not located in the shields like it is now), and the builds had no wiggle room if you wanted to leverage burn (and you wanted to leverage burn). 

 

Stone had exclusive toggles, but people just toughed it out until granite and then all was covered. 

 

Ice had exclusive toggles, and sucked until you got to energy absorption which would let you softcap pretty easily. You run that click with wet ice toggle for status protection and you were good. 

 

Regeneration would allow integration and instant heal toggles to run at the same time, and you couldn't throw a rock without hitting a regeneration scrapper.  

 

Super Refexes had to pick a positional defense shield, but past 38 you could use perma elude so you were very softcapped with a large endurance boost. Status protection was and is still a click power so that wasn't a concern.

 

Yes, dark had it rough. It was the lone set which never got away from having to pick a shield and hope for the best. 

[Clave Dark 5]

7 hours ago, drbuzzard said:

 

Oh, so you're complaining that old easy stuff is easy. I see. 

You obviously don't know me.  😃

[Sakura Tenshi]

I do have to say breezing through Aeons seems plausible but I still have no idea how anyone does it. Those AoE -res patches are so damn numerous and cover such huge areas I have literally earned THREE damage badges in ONE life because I was hit that hard on a tank!

[arcane]

I know people that breeze through 4* content like they’re speed runs, but they’re also easily the worst people I know in the game. I’ll gladly resort to buying all my PAPs on the market before I stoop to playing with those people.

[Lhanis]

My biggest issue with HM content was always that I missed the initial rush when they arrived, and after that point when the meta had become Corruptors... nobody wanted anything else. The HC community has generally been a wonderful place the past 5-ish years we've been about, but @arcane is right - the people who still regularly run the 4* content are largely some of the worst people I've had the displeasure to run a TF with. I feel like the addition of 'difficult' content is good, but a lot of folks in the community very quickly decided there was only one way to run it, and it hasn't exactly been an enjoyable experience.

 

I'm sure that toxicity isn't universal, there are a lot of good people here. And the fact that I never settled in with one of the big SGs means I do only ever see that kind of content in PuGs or when a friend's group has an open slot. But I do feel like the HM TFs have already proven that no matter what the devs try to give us in regards to stuff like this, people will just min-max the enjoyment out of it and complain it isn't enough, or burn out and drop it altogether.

 

It's important to remember that not everyone is here for that kind of content. 

Edited December 24, 2023 by Lhanis

[Sovera]

On 12/20/2023 at 9:00 AM, MoonSheep said:

 

i think because the game’s difficulty and challenge has been watered down so many times to homeopathic levels of interest, everything feels bland and uninspiring

 

every archetype is any archetype, you can simply button mash your way to success in HC CoH

 

It's been that way since forever. When people say about what AT solos best my reply is 'any, since you can mess with the difficulty slider'.

 

CoH is the aRPG of MMOs, we face screenfulls of enemy at a time just like any aRPG where MMOs usually pit us against 3-4 mobs. We are meant to plow through hordes, so of course the hordes are not tough.

 

Saying that the difficulty, or lack of, is what drove people away is reductive as heck. What drove people away was playing the same game for 3+ years. Rare is the game that can have people stick around for such a long time but this is somehow headscratched in these forums as if more TFs or more difficulty would suddenly change this.

 

I do heartily agree with the past replies though. Path of Exile also has been out since forever and people will play it for a few weeks or a month after each new league before dropping out and returning to the new league.

 

Shorter patches (with all my immense respect for the ability the devs have shown to stick around this project for so long without letting it drop into maintenance mode) would do this. I know each time new things are released I'm there to try them. I want to make a new Sentinel but I'm waiting for the next update but I had this thought something like... 4 months ago, if not mistaken?

 

The devs do want to make each patch significant and that's why when one is released it is simply brimming with goodies, which is great when we unwrap the patch notes. But halving the goodies would be better on the long run IMO. Unfortunately I am aware enough that simply halving the goodies does not mean halving the release times which is why they tend to come so crammed with good stuff.

[Dev Unitas]

 

[The Caretaker]

I get it!

1 hour ago, Dev Unitas said:

 

I get it!

[Bionic_Flea]

1 hour ago, Dev Unitas said:

 

 

Blue Shield fights Godzilla!!!  What else could it be?

[Ridiculous Girl]

4 hours ago, Dev Unitas said:

 

 

Penny Shin! 🙂

[GM Impervium]

5 hours ago, Bionic_Flea said:

 

Blue Shield fights Godzilla!!!  What else could it be?

Poor Godzilla =(

[Heatstroke]

hope there are some new powersets..

[Bzzzztt]

 

 

Ok, I cannot be the only one to see this picture and immediately say "We're gonna need a bigger boat!"

[Booper]

11 hours ago, Dev Unitas said:

 

Speed swimming travel power, confirmed?