Is it possible to fix escort missions?

[FreakazoidRobot]

I'm getting to the later levels of the Ghost Widow questline as a Villain, and the frequent kidnap missions are just cancer. If you aren't far enough ahead, the NPC doesn't move. If you go to far, they stop moving. It's just a snail's pace of pointless annoyance. To make it worse, I'm a mastermind and my minions block and hide them so I can't see where they are in all the tunnels. And then  the NPC just ran away through a wall, apparently because there's a hidden rule that I have to kill everything before I guide him out. Beyond infuriating. I don't know if the people working on this game are able and willing to change this, but it is THE thing I dislike the most about this game. I don't care if it breaks immersion or whatever, it's not fun and I want the NPC's to have longer tethers and move faster. The way it is now is incredibly unfun. Thanks for listening to my rant.

[OverkillEngine]

And god help you if you have a stealth power at all. Some of the escortees can see thru them but it's still cancer tier overall.

[Shin Magmus]

     Escorts in CoH are some of the worst in any game: due to pathing that is basically them rubberbanding to you.  Want to experience true pain: go escort a scientist in Warburg to unlock a Nuclear Launch temp power.  It's always been bad, and I'd love improvements here but now we're talking about pathing AI code.  I just don't know if it's technically even possible. 

[Triumphant]

I agree.  A character with superspeed (superman, flash, whatever), would just pick the person up and zip them to the entrance, for example.  Yes, it would give you whiplash in real life, but that's not how comic book physics work.  Otherwise, everyone that ever got hit with crashing uppercut would have a shattered spine after that first hit.  

 

Not sure if it's possible to code a fix for this, but I would certainly be in support of it.  

[Laucianna]

3 hours ago, Shin Magmus said:

     Escorts in CoH are some of the worst in any game: due to pathing that is basically them rubberbanding to you.  Want to experience true pain: go escort a scientist in Warburg to unlock a Nuclear Launch temp power.  It's always been bad, and I'd love improvements here but now we're talking about pathing AI code.  I just don't know if it's technically even possible. 

I just turned off all travel powers even sprint and even that was a pain 😄

[Shin Magmus]

23 minutes ago, Laucianna said:

I just turned off all travel powers even sprint and even that was a pain 😄

    The scientists will FAIL TO UNDERSTAND HOW TO WALK UP A RAMP AND ACROSS A BRIDGE, and proceed to fall off 5 times in a row no matter how you position yourself or how slowly you move.  It was insane, especially because that ramp/bridge combo is MANDATORY for completion of the quest.  I genuinely don't know how anyone did this on live while being attacked by other players simultaneously.

[Neogumbercules]

I would assume it involves manually tweaking these rescue missions to count as complete as soon as the rescue is complete, or as soon as X number of ambush waves are defeated. In missions where you have to lead an NPC to another asset like a computer terminal, tweak these so the NPC teleports to you when you arrive at the location. 

 

I would be completely in support of this, even though it sounds like it would take a lot of effort, or just be a band-aid solution to some bigger problem like maybe the mission design process and toolset internally is just jacked to begin with, so even doing something like what we're suggesting in this thread would require a redesign to the internal tools. Beats me, but yeah, escort missions are trash.

Edited May 21 by Neogumbercules

[golstat2003]

11 minutes ago, Neogumbercules said:

I would assume it involves manually tweaking these rescue missions to count as complete as soon as the rescue is complete, or as soon as X number of ambush waves are defeated. In missions where you have to lead an NPC to another asset like a computer terminal, tweak these so the NPC teleports to you when you arrive at the location. 

 

I would be completely in support of this, even though it sounds like it would take a lot of effort, or just be a band-aid solution to some bigger problem like maybe the mission design process and toolset internally is just jacked to begin with, so even doing something like what we're suggesting in this thread would require a redesign to the internal tools. Beats me, but yeah, escort missions are trash.

 

Yes please. Anything that makes these type of missions less painful. Just let me beat the mobs around that person kidnapped (or I need to kidnap) and complete the mission. That pathing AI is terribad.

[Oklahoman]

I've often wished I could just TP their happy ass to where I need them to be.

[CrusaderDroid]

Wonder what the logistics would be like if you were to grant a temporary power when you get an escort that lets you teleport the escort to your location.

 

I'm not convinced bypassing the "challenge" of an escort means anything to anyone, so that would let you skip a lot of hassle. If it's granted to the entire team, your doorsitter can grab them for you. It could be disabled on anything where the escort does matter, e.g. incarnate trials.

[JasperStone]

Out of all the rescue and lead-out missions, the only one I have never had an issue with is the Rescue of the Rikti Negotiator from Crimson.

For the Bodyguard Badge ... I think that is the right one.

 

But ... just that one.

[Arcanum]

1 hour ago, Oklahoman said:

I've often wished I could just TP their happy ass to where I need them to be.

Same.

[tidge]

I like the immersion of the escorts that stop following you if they get too close to an enemy, or if you get too far away or go stealthy... yet there are clearly some classes of NPCs that are really good about finding/staying with players. There are enough that I wonder why more can't be like those.

 

I think the simplest update would be to grant the hostages/escorts an increase to their base movement. I don't mean "sprint"... it takes very little for a player to have a base movement increase that can completely outpace an NPC even with all travel toggles off. I'd explore turning up the distance by which hostages can see players, but this could have unintended consequences.

[AmbiguousOmen]

What about setting elevators as valid exit points for kidnap/rescue NPCs? At least that would significantly shorten the time and distance spent dragging them along, but still allow for things like ambush waves.

[InfamousBrad]

58 minutes ago, tidge said:

I like the immersion of the escorts that stop following you if they get too close to an enemy, or if you get too far away or go stealthy... yet there are clearly some classes of NPCs that are really good about finding/staying with players. There are enough that I wonder why more can't be like those.

 

I think the simplest update would be to grant the hostages/escorts an increase to their base movement. I don't mean "sprint"... it takes very little for a player to have a base movement increase that can completely outpace an NPC even with all travel toggles off. I'd explore turning up the distance by which hostages can see players, but this could have unintended consequences.

 

As best as I can tell, any NPC with their own attack powers can follow stealthed players, and non-combat NPCs can't. Am I wrong?

[Rudra]

5 minutes ago, InfamousBrad said:

 

As best as I can tell, any NPC with their own attack powers can follow stealthed players, and non-combat NPCs can't. Am I wrong?

You are mostly right. I believe there is 1 combat NPC you have to escort that can't follow you through stealth.

[RikOz]

8 hours ago, tidge said:

yet there are clearly some classes of NPCs that are really good about finding/staying with players.

Mr. Yin. That guy is fast, and sticks with you. Figure out what makes him work, and apply it to all the others!

[kelika2]

12 hours ago, Arcanum said:

Same.

Ever thought about blanket-buffing all escort targets with a massive +perception buff?

Call said buff "Held Hand"

i know that sounds insulting but sometimes i want to straddle an NPC in a sexual position looking them in the eye as they choke to death because they are having trouble hurdling a hand rail.

[Rudra]

2 hours ago, kelika2 said:

Ever thought about blanket-buffing all escort targets with a massive +perception buff?

Call said buff "Held Hand"

i know that sounds insulting but sometimes i want to straddle an NPC in a sexual position looking them in the eye as they choke to death because they are having trouble hurdling a hand rail.

That's a pathing issue, not a PC detection one. MM pets do the same thing all the time.

[tidge]

8 hours ago, kelika2 said:

Ever thought about blanket-buffing all escort targets with a massive +perception buff?

Call said buff "Held Hand"

i know that sounds insulting but sometimes i want to straddle an NPC in a sexual position looking them in the eye as they choke to death because they are having trouble hurdling a hand rail.

 

This might work for some NPCs, but I feel like there would be more unintended consequences for others. For example, the Mayhem Hostages might easier "freeze" upon seeing a critter, and

Fusionette doesn't need to have more of a reason for her behavior.

[Rudra]

3 hours ago, tidge said:

 

This might work for some NPCs, but I feel like there would be more unintended consequences for others. For example, the Mayhem Hostages might easier "freeze" upon seeing a critter, and

Fusionette doesn't need to have more of a reason for her behavior.

That's a good point I forgot about. There are several NPCs that have ridiculous aggro ranges, like Ms. Liberty, and the last thing they need is to have even better perception to notice things to aggro.

[ThatGuyCDude]

12 hours ago, kelika2 said:

Ever thought about blanket-buffing all escort targets with a massive +perception buff?

Call said buff "Held Hand"

i know that sounds insulting but sometimes i want to straddle an NPC in a sexual position looking them in the eye as they choke to death because they are having trouble hurdling a hand rail.

I think this is a great idea.  A few extra buffs would help it a lot.

Held Hand: While within 10 (20?) feet of the Hero/Villain rescuing/kidnapping, this NPC has +Speed (to address keeping up with the player), +Perception (to address Stealth mechanics), and +Hover (to address pathing problems... flying actors path a LOT better than ground ones.)  The Hover component is narratively justified as the hero/villain carrying their hapless follower.

I hate 'lead them out' missions as much as everybody else, but a lot of their balance is built around ambushes on the way back to the door, so buffing the follower is probably the best approach.

[kelika2]

53 minutes ago, ThatGuyCDude said:

I think this is a great idea.  A few extra buffs would help it a lot.

Held Hand: While within 10 (20?) feet of the Hero/Villain rescuing/kidnapping, this NPC has +Speed (to address keeping up with the player), +Perception (to address Stealth mechanics), and +Hover (to address pathing problems... flying actors path a LOT better than ground ones.)  The Hover component is narratively justified as the hero/villain carrying their hapless follower.

I hate 'lead them out' missions as much as everybody else, but a lot of their balance is built around ambushes on the way back to the door, so buffing the follower is probably the best approach.

Villains can get Forced Hand

[UltraAlt]

On 5/21/2024 at 1:38 AM, FreakazoidRobot said:

Thanks for listening to my rant.

 

I can see where you are coming from with the master mind.

You could send your henchmen ahead and then move up to where they are with hostage/escort and then send the henchmen ahead again.

That might help some at least.

 

oh, forgot ... and didn't read through the whole thread ... but ...the escortee/hostage have been buffed to move faster more than one. If I recall correctly, there was even a point where they wouldn't jump down from a raised area and you had to walk them around to where there was a staircase.

Edited May 22 by UltraAlt

[Greycat]

On 5/21/2024 at 8:45 AM, Shin Magmus said:

 I genuinely don't know how anyone did this on live while being attacked by other players simultaneously.

 

You assume there were people in the zones...

 

Honestly, though, any buffs/assists should take into mind what *kind* of NPC we're talking about - a rescue or a hostage. Rescues (even redside, there are a few "hostage/kidnap" missions that they really present as "Hey, no problem, I'm coming with you, it's better than them!") would be far more willing to follow you, while I could see some rescues (and some of the "rescues" blueside are more arrests) can try to slip away - it's even in some of the redside dialog - where you have to re-subdue them.

 

... and yeah, no +per for the "helpers" - they're suicidal enough on their own without being able to see a target to run after two rooms over. >.< (Just give me a "Thanks, but I don't need your help/it's more important to get you to safety" option that sends them to the door or something.)