New to the game, asking for advice - Controller or Dominator and what types?

[Myrd]

I've never played this game before but heard good things. And I'm a fan of this kind of playstyle, rare as it is.

 

So I'm trying to tell what is different in terms of "most effective control powers" with controller vs dominator. It seems like Dominators unique trait gives it a temporary power boost and controller is always on. Maybe one only affects single targets? Maybe the temporary boost is stronger when on or weaker when on? Can anyone clarify what would maximize CC options? If someone had to cast the strongest CC there was would it come from one or the other class?

 

And then I'm looking into power sets for each. I know the second dominator choice seems to be about damage. And the second controller choice about supports. Aesthetically I like mind control and illusions but I have no idea if those are actually good enough to make a useful end game character. And I might have to look into what each gets since attacks and support options may differ. I'm open to anything though. What's the absolute best for each class in your opinion and why?

 

I really don't mind playing full support or CC + damage. Whatever is more useful I can have fun with both.

 

Just looking for general advice and I wasn't sure which archetype form to use since it refers to both. I haven't picked which I'd play yet.

 

I guess the question is, if you had to pick a class to join your team which would you favor? And which power sets do you prefer and why?

Edited June 30 by Myrd

[Maelwys]

For starters, because it will get glommed onto by other responders, there is no "absolute best" powerset combination in CoH.
It might be helpful to think of it like a big game of Rock/Paper/Scissors.

Some toons have more Scissors, others have more Rock, others are essentially all Paper (Blasters! 😸).

Controllers are Support with CC. Dominators are DPS with CC.

Both are useful and have places on teams.
The difference between an "entry-level" and a "min-maxxed" build will probably be more evident on a Dominator than a Controller: because getting Domination "permanent" (with enough global recharge it recharges faster than it expires) gives constant mez protection; a substantial boost to control powers and an Endurance bar refill.

If you're just after Solo Damage Output then generally Dominators will beat Controllers due to their secondary being damage-orientated and their higher damage scalars. However for Team Damage Output; a /Kinetics Controller will likely blow any Dom out of the water.

On Dominators: Some powersets are better at AoE damage, and others are better at Single Target damage. However if you want to solo Archvillains then you'll want a pet that can Taunt... meaning Earth/ or Arsenal/ (Illusion's Phantom Army has Taunt on a Controller; but not on a Dominator!) and likely /Psi (for Drain Psyche's -Regen debuff).
For CC, any Dominator can excel but different sets have different types of CC available: "AoE Stun + AoE immobilize" can take out a spawn just as well as "AoE Hold"; but the former tends to have a higher uptime. "Knockdown" or "Slow" powers work better versus some foes than others. Immobilize is one of the few things that cuts through Archvillain resistances. Confusing a AV can let you solo Hardmode TFs. Therefore what's "best" here will depend a lot on what you actually want to do with the toon.

On Controllers: "Containment" doubles their damage against foes that are already CCed (Held, Immobilized, Slept or Stunned... but not Feared or Confused. Note that this means that having an immobilize power is very useful for additional damage vs AVs!) however they have much lower raw damage output and Containment can get a bit flaky when it comes to pseudopet powers.
Their buffing Secondaries bring a wide variety of buff/debuffs to the table (notably Darkness Affinity is unique to them - other ATs don't get access to "Fade") and certain primaries also have defining powers like Plant's Seeds of Confusion, Illusion's Phantom Army, Gravity's Singularity; etc. For a "no holds barred endgame build" scenario I'd probably recommend a Plant/ or Illusion/ primary with a /Cold or /Time secondary due to their extremely high performance ceilings; but leveraging their powers properly will still take a fair bit of practice (and a decent set of keybinds!)

Also: something you may not have considered is a VEAT Fortuna. Their "Fate Sealed" passive gives them a major boost to CC duration; and they've a decent mixture of raw damage and team buffs - so they can end up with the best of both worlds when min-maxxed.
 

1 hour ago, Myrd said:

If someone had to cast the strongest CC there was would it come from one or the other class?

EDIT: Going to touch on this particular question briefly.

The short answer is "Dominators".
Dominators CC abilities gain additional magnitude whilst Domination is active.
This means that Dominators can stack greater levels of CC much faster than Controllers.

However... in practice that only really matters versus Archvillains (it's possible to stack CC higher than the Mag 50 mez protection that AVs get during their "Purple Triangles" phase, although it takes a fair amount of work even for Dominators) and these days most AVs will get killed pretty quickly anyway.
 

Edited June 30 by Maelwys

[Captain Dapper]

I really enjoy playing dominators. My main is an illusion/martial arts dom, and I have an ice/stone and a dark/energy dom at end game as well (level 50+). What I really enjoy is their versatility. Control, ranged damage, melee damage, and even some mild buffing, depending on the set. 

 

I've tried playing controllers, but I really enjoy mixing it up with the villains I'm arresting, and I find controllers a bit passive on that regard. Though there are always exceptions, I've found controllers don't do enough "exciting" action for my tastes. My dominators can throw hard control, soft control, ranged attacks and melee, depending on what works best on the team.

 

But that's when I'm playing the character. Which am I happier to see when I'm on a team? Controllers! I'm always delighted to see controllers because they can buff me or debuff the opponent. They make my play more fun, which is much appreciated.

 

TLDR: to play, dominator. To play with, controller. YMMV.

[Ghost]

Welcome to the game!!

[Psyonico]

Welcome to City!

 

I'll make the controller/dominator debate simple... If you want to team more than solo, I'd go controller.  If you want to solo more than team, I'd go dominator.

 

That's not to say that a controller can't solo or a dominator can't team, but just that that's the way the ATs were designed.

 

For primary, Illusion is my personal favorite control set.  On controllers, it blooms a little later (23-26ish).  On dominators, you get Spectral Terror early, which really helps.

 

Mind is a late(er) bloomer for both ATs, it's not until you get terrify slotted that it really comes into its own control-wise.

 

As for secondary, my suggestion is simply "pick what sounds fun/fits your character's theme"

[Water]

There is no "best" - only best for your enjoyment. Each plays the same in a different manner and slots it differently.

 

Play them all and decide which is best for you.

 

I've been learning the game for 20 years and I doubt I will stop learning it.

 

 

 

[Snarky]

Dominators, +side... Single Target Damage is decent/good.  AoE is at least there.  If not great.  Crowd Control Mag stacks fast.  "Domination power" is nice.

 

Dominators -side... Domination power is a pony you gotta ride.  It is a two minute timer constant manage click that if you perma dom is a constant attention sink.  Perma Dom is EXPENSIVE, but most Dom players do it.  Perma Dom defines your build goals.  period.  

 

Controllers +side... FAT target areas.  Like.... FAT FAT.  Controllers do just that, they define the strategy and playing area.  Also, really really good buffs/debuffs, which goes further to owning the enemy without doing DPS. 

 

Controllers -side.... no matter what anyone tells you these things do NO damage.  On a fast moving team (common these days) the playing area keeps moving every 10 seconds and your FAT AoE controls are... back there.  

[Myrd]

So the AoE for a controller is bigger on the same power sets? I didn't see that in their archetype power. What defines the difference?

 

Thanks for all the advice so far.

[Snarky]

6 minutes ago, Myrd said:

So the AoE for a controller is bigger on the same power sets? I didn't see that in their archetype power. What defines the difference?

 

Thanks for all the advice so far.

yeah, Controllers AoE is bigger, and they tend to have more AoE control as well.  Doms powers lean toward single target dps/mez with usually one big aoe hold.  as you are on character creation screen click on any power, then click green "i" in upper right.  gives you details on power...damage, area, etc.  

[Maelwys]

33 minutes ago, Snarky said:

yeah, Controllers AoE is bigger, and they tend to have more AoE control as well.

You sure about that one Snarky?

To be fair my Doms have mainly been things like Plant/, Earth/ and Arse/ which have a lot of pseudopets... but a very quick glance through the CoD powers listing doesn't appear to show any difference in the radius or max targets of their regular powers either. Maybe I'm missing something or you're just referring to the secondary sets...?
 

Edited June 30 by Maelwys

[Riverdusk]

42 minutes ago, Snarky said:

yeah, Controllers AoE is bigger, and they tend to have more AoE control as well.  Doms powers lean toward single target dps/mez with usually one big aoe hold.  as you are on character creation screen click on any power, then click green "i" in upper right.  gives you details on power...damage, area, etc.  

 

I've never heard of that and it wasn't my experience, so I double checked several control powers.  The AoE controls of doms and controllers are the same radius in all the powers I checked in game (things like flashfire, stalagmites, seeds of confusion, mass hyp, total dom, flashbang).  All equal radius between the two,   Going to need some example of otherwise.

 

The two are also almost always identical in control power choices, so they have the same amount of aoe control.  In fact, Illusion dominators have an extra AoE control that controllers don't have, and that is one of the rare differences in any of the control set power choices between the two.

 

Edit:  OP posted same question in several different spots.  My thoughts on original questions are here: 

 

Edited June 30 by Riverdusk

[Myrd]

Yeah sorry I wasn't sure what forum was most appropriate.

[Riverdusk]

1 minute ago, Myrd said:

Yeah sorry I wasn't sure what forum was most appropriate.

 

No problem, the mods will move and combine them if they feel the need.

[Doomguide2005]

 

3 hours ago, Myrd said:

 

I guess the question is, if you had to pick a class to join your team which would you favor? And which power sets do you prefer and why?

Going to sound ... well I  don't really care as long as they're trying, paying attention to chat etc. and having fun while at least trying to contribute to the team.

 

I'm big on Earth Control and have between HC and Live paired it with just about everything (except Sonic Resonance I  believe).  But my favorite among Earth has to be Storm.  Earth is probably one of the least damaging control primaries but Storm makes up for that in spades.  Earth can potentially disable 4 spawns at once.  Rocky (the pet) is tough and is one of the few pets with Taunt actually built in.   My current Earth/Storm is a stun machine and can put out 7+ mag worth of stun in few seconds.  Very little that isn't mez protected won't be rapidly stunned and locked in place by the AoE immobilize to be hammered by Lightning Storm and Tornado while Rocky and I take turns laying down Seismic Smash on the bosses.

[Erratic1]

3 hours ago, Psyonico said:

That's not to say that a controller can't solo or a dominator can't team, but just that that's the way the ATs were designed.

 

You can team perfectly as well on a Dominator as you can on Controller. The controller brings buffs for the team whereas the Dominator is bringing damage. Both buffs and damage are team useful things.

 

 

[Erratic1]

2 hours ago, Snarky said:

Controllers AoE is bigger, and they tend to have more AoE control as well.  Doms powers lean toward single target dps/mez with usually one big aoe hold. 

 

5 AoE controls on my Assault Dominator. Stone looks to have 6 AoE controls. Dark has 4. Electric 5...does not seem like a shortage of AoE control on Dominators.

 

4 hours ago, Myrd said:

I guess the question is, if you had to pick a class to join your team which would you favor?

 

Cannot say I have ever paid that much attention because either way life is easier with one around.

[Snarky]

yeah, i was wrong about the difference in dom/troll aoe.  been a while since i levelled trollers.  in my mind must have been comparing to something else.  o well

[Techwright]

Commenting on the illusion and mind control bits,  I've had an illusion controller for a very long time and I feel it is a powerful character in the end game.  That said, I very rarely solo with it, though I've done a lot of duos.  If there is a downside, it is that he didn't get the chance for pets until rank 22, so he was dependent upon teamwork to get him to that mark and a bit further to get the pets up to strength.  I've paired illusion with storm, and it is a potent combination.  You definitely can solo with it in endgame, I just prefer team work.

 

Mind control has some psionic power. Psionics is a power more often seen towards the endgame, but could be anywhere along the way.  I've only just hit 50 with a mind control\psionic dominator.  It was a lot of fun to play, though weirdly I felt like I was taking a lot of individual shots, even though I had some area of effect and conical ones.  I just used routine enhancements.  I've not had a chance to design his build around enhancement sets yet.  I'm not sure I'll ever solo with him, but he'll definitely aid a team.  He's definitely a bit of a glass cannon, so I'd look towards getting some defense from the so called "third pool" of powers (far right column of selectables) as you advance.

 

Definitely look at Storm Summoning.  The set is awesome.  I'd also suggest looking at plant, ice, earth, and dark sets.  Ice lacks a little in damage, but is massively effective in locking down and/or slowing opponents. 

[Greycat]

I'll just say "You have 1000 slots per server. Use them 'til you find one or more that click." 🙂

 

(Plus if you like one side but not the other - like you like the control set, but not the support  or assault... try pairing it with something else. They can *really* change the feel.)

 

Thanks to the support side, controllers *can* be much slower if you solo. (The flip side being, a controller's the first one to solo Lusca, a rather large GM, back before we had set IOs and the various boosts. Also fire/kinetics controllers used to be fairly damaging.) However, if you plan on teaming, the "this solos slowly" wont' be as big a deal.

 

Personal favourites...

Mind/Fire just is a lot of fun on a Dominator.  Mind/anything, to me, is fun.

Earth and Ice are probably tied for my second favourite control sets, whether on controller or dom. They feel *controlling.* Can't explain it any other way.

Illusion's ... not a favourite of mine. At least on controllers, since it feels like it's pushing you to *have* to build for recharge, relying on PA since there's not much real *control* there. The dominator version's tweaked a bit and does feel better.

 

But... still. 1000 slots. Go nuts.

[Uun]

With the exception of Illusion, controller and dominator primaries have the same powers. Range, AoE size, recharge, endurance cost are all the same. The differences are in 1) control duration and magnitude and 2) damage. 

1. Control powers (hold, sleep, stun, immobilize, fear, confuse) have a duration and a magnitude. Magnitude determines what rank of foe is affected (mag 2 will affect a minion, mag 3 will affect a lieutenant, mag 4 will affect a boss). Controller and dominator primary powers start out with the same magnitude, usually mag 3. Controllers have a 20% chance for an additional 1 mag while dominators can double the magnitude when Domination is active. Base duration is longer for controllers, while dominators get 50% more duration when Domination is active. Most players build their dominators to make Domination perma.
2. Controllers have a ranged damage modifier of 0.55 while dominators have a ranged damage modifier of 0.95. As a result, base damage for primary powers will be 72% higher for dominators, however, controllers get Containment. Containment doubles the damage to controlled foes. With Containment, controllers will do about 15% more damage than dominators when using the same powers.

The bigger difference between the ATs is the secondaries. Controllers get support secondaries while dominators get assault secondaries (a mix of melee and ranged damage attacks).

[Lusiphur Malache]

I used to avoid controllers and dominators like the plague, but a kind dom helped me out of several jams one week and asked me to give them a try.  My first was a plant/martial and I've added a symphony/sonic dom also.  The plant/martial is very fun to play, writing this makes me want to take Rosy Thorne off the shelf.  I may be wrong but when comparing hero and villains, hero AT are great at one thing, villain AT are good at two.

 

My controllers are not fun to play, but for me they are much more effective.  They seem to have an aura of inevitability.  My electric/time, Zap of Time, makes short work of blue bars.

 

My latest project is a Arsenal/Nature troller.  I'm trying something new.  I have a variety of aoe, sleep, flashbang and liquid nitrogen from Arsenal, Ball Lightning from Mu, and Corrosive vial from experimentation.  Cryo Ray and toxic dart make good single target attacks.  Aching to see how it performs on a team.

[Without_Pause]

I haven't played Ill on a Dom so I'm basing my opinion from others back when I was previously on the forums(see before the last Issue, but I did read the patch notes), and that was it played better on a Controller. Mind was deemed better on a Dom. I've loved playing a Mind Controller, but never got one to 50. I've done Ill to 50 twice on Controllers. They are the odd duck of Controllers as how they mitigate damage is rather outside of the box for the AT, but end game is one of the strongest for Controllers. Back on Live, I played support a ton which meant I have a lot of experience with it versus Doms. For the life of me I keep rolling Doms only to delete them. My favorite run was a Plant/fire, but it was part of a hardcore SG, alas, it didn't make it to 50. Favorite Controller? (gets out list) It really depends on what playstyle suits you. Earth/storm and Ill/dark are two different beasts but beasts none the less.

 

Which one would anyone want more on a team? We don't care. No really. We don't. Gameplay in CoH is more steamroll than ever. You can get on +4/x8 teams where one of the characters could solo the map, so realistically the others are there as an audience and to make it go faster. Again, I'm a huge support person. Teams will seek out having at least some support. The real truth of the matter is teams will seek out the support secondaries of a Controller versus the secondaries of a Dom. There isn't a Dom secondary getting called out like /kin does for Controllers. #Notsorry. But again, it's a playstyle thing. As someone who ODed on playing Kin, I get why people don't like playing the energy drink click fest that is Kin. There's an argument to be made for how much additional control do Doms add which is needed for a team which is steamrolling. I've literally played Controllers who felt like subpar Defenders due to how little my controls felt needed. On the flip side, I've seen how much smoother a Dom can make things for a team. A case can be made for adding more than one Controller for controls. A Dom who can go perma can cover controls by themselves. The game simply has annoying things in it, see Sappers. Having controls can be a solid part of that steamrolling. Putting it another way, lets say a team has a single defender on it for support. That team would benefit more from a Dom. If the team had a single Controller, another Controller would help more. IMO, etc. At the end of the day, teams are vastly steamrolling anyway, so play what you find fun. Some days you might want to giftwrap a mob for your teammates. Sometimes you might want to lock things down. run in, and beat the crap out of it. I really should do a Plant/sav some day. 

 

About the only advice I would give if you went Ill Controller is pick a debuff based secondary. PA can't be buffed, so using a buff heavy secondary offers less for Ill. 

 

An aside, a different take on Doms with a side of support would be a Widow. Part of me wonders why I don't play Doms more due to how much I love my Widow, but also I would just rather play my finished Widow versus leveling up a Dom. 

 

P.S. Anyone saying Controllers have low damage are ignoring certain combos for Controllers. 

[Shred Monkey]

Along with the "there's no best choice, choose what you want to do" comments I'll add this personal view... (and again, it's not an absolute in all cases fact).

 

I would play dominator if I was focused on solo play because I can do good single target damage and use my controls on the few targets I'm not directly attacking.

 

I would play controllers on teams where I'm contributing buffs to my teammates or debuffs in large spawns, while using bigger AoE controls to keep my teammates safe.

 

Again, both options play just fine and can be fun in all situations, but that's a personal view that may help you decide.

[catsi563]

Ohai new friend you bring teh donuts?

 

As others have said above Controllers are about just that Control their powers are geared towards contol of targets in an area and control of the area itself via debuffs. their secondary power set allows for a combination of heals and/or debuffs that further this capability

 

Doms are a far more offensive version of this but in their case they use their dom power to set up their controls to be able to DO DAMAGE since their secondaries are all about taking the offensive to a target that cant fight back

 

thus as controllers CONTROL the area shutting people down and keeping them in lockdown. Dominators DOMINATE one target and use their powers to aggressively remove them

 

theres  a lot of really good power choices and you cant go wrong with any of them really but one advice i give to newer players is to avoid making the wonky combos on first run through of an AT. namely stick to the basics when trying to learn by using matching secondary and primary sets

 

gravity ff or kinetics

 

fire fire or rad

 

stone kin

 

ice cold or storm

 

electric electric

 

and more

 

as many have said there is NO one true power set or combo and you can play whatever strikes your fancy but as a new player i reccomend sticking to basics while you learn the game and matching sets like the one above have the advantage of synergy with each other being built in. once you have the hang of it feel free to expand out and play around with combos you enjoy

 

full caveat by the by most of my power choices in regard to my characters are very staid classic combos that match each other so theeres that 

 

welcome to the City and well see you out there

[Oubliette_Red]

Given the amount of slots available on every server, my suggestion is Yes.