Theorycrafting pets, damage and procs

[BGSacho]

In an effort to squeeze out more DPS out of pets, considering the limited effective slotting options, I've been experimenting with adding damage procs. Disclaimer: I'm fairly new to the game(this is my first server!) so I may have gaps in my understanding, and some of this is theoretical(I haven't tested every pet/proc combination)

 

Before we discuss procs, it's useful to discuss damage on pets in general. From https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Purple_Patch we can see that our pets have the following damage modifiers at +0/+4:

Pet	+0	+4
Minions	0.80	0.15(!)
Lieutenants	0.90	0.30
Bosses	1.0	0.48

 

Pet damage varies wildly depending on the primary, and I haven't really done a thorough "dps" analysis, but this sheet helps with some ballpark numbers - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19VuZ9zJ_8eKN11JytgaK9mt9Fy-8pjANopb-FGh68Uw/edit#gid=537542171 Unfortunately, that sheet doesn't take the purple patch into consideration, which varies pet dps even more.

 

As you can see(or maybe not, that sheet took me a while to understand  ;D), most minions do 10-20 dps per pet - battle drones being the low end and genin the high end. Unfortunately these numbers don't have purple patch scaling applied to them. Also, take these "dps" numbers with a grain of salt, and only as a comparison between MM pets.

 

Here's some quick numbers on what you can expect at +0/+4 :

 

- 15 avg "base dps" per minion - 12 at +0, 2.25 at +4 (!!)

- 25 avg "base dps" per lt - 22.5 at +0, 7.5 at +4

- 35 avg "base dps" per boss - 35 at +0, 16.8 at +4 (this one has the highest variance, so YMMV)

 

You can see how your minions are worth less and less at higher +x, and your lts and boss contribute most of the damage. This is unfortunate for necro for example, which has the lowest dps boss(10), and mercs, which have a low dps boss AND low dps lts.

 

Now, onto procs, a quick primer:

 

Procs work on a so-called "PPM" system. What this means is that the chance to trigger takes into account a power's activation time + recharge time. So if a proc has 1 PPM, and you slot it into a power with a 30s activation + recharge time, you'll have 50% chance to proc each time you use the power. More info here(especially on AoE attacks) - https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Procs_Per_Minute

 

Here's the good, the bad and the ugly about procs on pets:

 

- (Good) - procs aren't scaled down by the number of pets - a proc into minions will not do a third of the damage as a proc in a boss! This means that MMs are uniquely positioned to abuse the hell out of procs, as we can multiply the number of sources

- (Bad) - since pets don't benefit from recharge, this isn't necessarily as strong as you might imagine. Most "real dps" have 200% recharge or more, which means they get triple the benefit out of each proc they slot in already(procs use base recharge time to calculate the chance to proc).

- (Good) - procs will slot into every power a pet has that can take it. That means if you slot your enforcers with "Touch of the Lady Grey", every one of their attacks(except blast clip..) will proc it! That's some slotting efficiency.

- (Bad) - procs will scale their damage based on the pet's level, so procs in minions will do 0.8/0.15, and so on. Don't expect procs to solve our dps problems in +4.

- (Ugly) - procs cost slots, which puts even more pressure on the MM primaries without an extra pet :(

 

So what can you realistically expect from a proc? Let's take an example - a Thug Enforcer with slotted "Touch of the Lady Grey"(Chance for Negative Damage). Lady Grey is a 3.5 ppm proc for about 80 damage - if the pet is just cycling its powers constantly you can expect ~4.5 "dps" per power. For an enforcer, that's 3 powers, or 13.5 "dps". If you compare that to the "base dps" they do(25), that's a pretty hefty increase for just one slot!

 

Here are some procs you can slot into your minions:

 

- Explosive Strike - Chance for Smashing Damage - Knockback attacks

- Touch of the Lady Grey - Chance for Negative Damage - Defense debuff attacks

- Cloud Senses - Chance for Negative Damage - ToHit debuff attacks

- Impeded Swiftness - Chance for Smashing damage - Slow attacks

 

Here's what this looks like on some of the MM primares:

 

Necromancy

 

1. Zombies - they only have Siphon Life, which is a 30s cd. You can slot Cloud Senses, but a 30s cd will not make use of all 3.5 ppm, you can only get max 2(this is because the chance to proc per cast is capped at 100%).

 

2. Grave Knights - Headsplitter, Disembowel, Hack and Slash can all slot Lady Grey. Dark Blast and Gloom can slot Cloud Senses, but you can't slot Cloud Senses into GKs(even though you can slot it in your own Dark Blast/Gloom...weird). This means you're looking at at extra 18 "dps" per GK - an over 50% increase!

 

3. Lich aka Proc Daddy - With just one Cloud Senses you're slotting Dark Blast, Torrent, Tenebrous Tentacles, Life Drain and Fearsome Stare. Two of these attacks are AoE! This more than doubles the Lich's measly "base dps" of 10. Here's a sample of the Lich proccing some fools:

 

4. Soul Extraction! Ghastly Blast and Life drain will work with Cloud Senses, providing you some extra "oomph". The Wraith is a Lt-style pet I think, just one level below you, so it's a noticable damage increase even in higher +x

 

Thugs

 

1. Punks - Both Dual Wield and Empty Clips can slot Explosive Strike. The only problem is that this affects 2/3 minions, and well, minions(did I mention 0.15?!)

 

2. Enforcers - Uzi Burst, Uzi Cone Blast and Uzi Heavy Burst can slot Lady Grey. Spray and pray, baby.

 

3. Bruiser - Almost every one of his attacks is a knockback. We're talking Punch, Jab, Hurl, Knockout Blow, Foot Stomp...yeah, he's a proc beast. The only problem is he already deals so much damage, the procs are a relatively lower damage increase for him than anyone else.

 

4. Gang War? I don't think you can slot any procs into it.

 

Demons (untested)

 

Their biggest strength - variety - becomes their biggest weakness here. You can technically slot Impeded Swiftness into the Cold Demonling, but that's pretty weak.

 

Luckily the Prince is all about the Slow, so an Impeded Swiftness on him should boost 5 of his attacks, a pretty hefty damage increase.

 

Ninjas (untested)

 

The Ninjas are already under serious slot pressure. Jounin are the only ones that get a decent number of procs(3 Lady Grey). Might be worth the slot.

 

Mercenaries (untested)

 

These are the guys that gave me the idea to try out procs, but I never got around to testing them. After looking at their attacks in Pines, the situation is pretty depressing. Wish mercs could get some love.  :(

 

1. Soldiers - 3 attacks for Lady Grey. Decent, but it's a minion, so..

 

2. Spec Ops - 2 attacks for Lady Grey. Unfortunately, they'll also spend a lot of time using their varied CC, which can't really be slotted for procs.

 

3. Commando - 2 Explosive Strike, 2 Lady Grey. Not as impressive as Demon Prince or Bruiser, since you need to use up 2 slots.

 

Summary

 

Overall, it's usually Lts and Bosses that benefit the most from procs. Necromancy and Thugs seem to benefit the most, and they can afford the slots.

 

I'll try to edit this post as I collect more information and testing(and get around to Beasts and Bots...).

 

 

 

[Clave Dark 5]

Very interesting, thanks for taking the time to look at this and post your results for us.

[Coyote]

Don't forget the use of Achilles Heel proc.

 

Also, I read that the PPM procs were changed to use the MODIFIED recharge, so you don't gain PPM by putting them in a power with high Recharge enhancement. This makes them comparatively more useful in pet powers, which aren't modified by Recharge modifiers... unless the procs take into account Recharge modifiers even if they can't affect the power.

[M3z]

For anyone looking for examples how to slot MM pets with procs I've posted some examples below which include proc slotting and slotting for HP/acc. These are taken from my team arena pvp build. Two IOs that is mandatory i'd say is the soul bound allegiance chance for BU, it procs so often it often stacks and the lady grey proc. Some of the pets are underslotted for acc, but this is made up for the acc I get from set bonuses from the entire build and envenom.

 

Villain Profile:

Level 1: Call Thugs -- ExpStr-Dam%(A), CmmoftheM-Dmg/EndRdx(3), CmmoftheM-Acc/Dmg(3), CmmoftheM-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SvrRgh-Acc/Dmg(5), SvrRgh-PetResDam(7)

Level 12: Call Enforcer -- ExpRnf-+Res(Pets)(A), SlbAll-Acc/Rchg(13), SlbAll-Dmg(13), SlbAll-Build%(15), SlbAll-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), TchofLadG-%Dam(17)

Level 18: Gang War -- CaltoArm-Acc/Rchg(A), CaltoArm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), CaltoArm-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(39), MarofSpr-Dmg/EndRdx(40), MarofSpr-Acc/EndRdx(40), MarofSpr-Dmg(40)

Level 28: Call Bruiser -- CmmoftheM-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), CmmoftheM-Rchg/PetAoEDef(29), CmmoftheM-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), MarofSpr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), MarofSpr-Acc/Dmg(31), MarofSpr-EndRdx/+Resist/+Regen(31)

 

Level 1: Zombie Horde -- SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprMarofS-EndRdx/+Resist/+Regen(3), ExpRnf-+Res(Pets)(3), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SprCmmoft-Rchg/PetAoEDef(5), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg(7)

Level 14: Grave Knight -- SlbAll-Build%(A), SlbAll-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), SlbAll-Acc/Rchg(29), SlbAll-Dmg(29), ExpStr-Dam%(31), TchofLadG-%Dam(31)

Level 26: Lich -- SprCmmoft-Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), SprCmmoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg(34), SprMarofS-Acc/EndRdx(36), SvrRgh-PetResDam(36)

 

[Wintervoid]

Very interesting.

 

I have a Beast/Kin that I have been considering taking out all the damage Enhancements and replacing them with something else.  Currently, I am running 2 Acc, 2 Damage and 2 of the specials for Res/Def in each pet.  I have noticed that shortly after entering a combat, my pets are generally damage capped because of Fulcrum Shift, so the Damage Enhancements seem to only help before I get off Fulcrum Shift (or stack it)  Well, seems like I could go full Procs and maintain non FS damage, and improve damage under FS.

 

I never realized how significant Proc damage could be even after PPM

[Erydanus]

I see in your screencapture that the Lich's various attacks are reporting tohit rolls and damage. I have a beast mastermind and after setting up a tab to monitor what they're doing I found that the attack damage was simply not being reported on any channel I could find. Literally pet damage is only reporting things like my dire wolf managed to fear a mob, not how much damage it does when it bites the mob. I even added some oddball channels as I remember a friend discovered a certain damage proc on live was announcing what it did on the healing received channel.

 

It's pretty frustrating because it's hard to tease out what the wolves actually do. For instance Summon Wolves says that the Alpha Wolf grants leadership bonuses to the pack; but it doesn't. Not seen in combat, not anywhere in power detail or upgrade power details; so are the wolves missing something or did they just not update the text after moving some base defense onto the canines? And looking at the power detail information while logged in is not real helpful. In fact I've been looking at the wolves, and also Train Beasts and Tame Beasts in power detail to see if I could figure out what the upgrade powers per pet actually are and it's .... a mess. (RED TOMAX WE NEEEEED YOUUUUU!) And the pets! Wow have you SEEN the list of enhancements you can jam into Wolves? 10 different classes + ATO and universal damage. Direct enhancements beyond the basic acc/dam/rech/end: defense debuff, healing, knockback, run speed, tohit buff AND tohit debuff. Apparently the wolves powers are like a drawer full of assorted cutlery.  The Lions and Dire Wolf are not quite as bad but still take enhancement for so many miscellaneous parameters it's nuts.

 

I'd like to slot these guys with a proc or two but I'm not sure if they have any powers that share a trait beyond damage. But on the flip side maybe I should be jamming a bunch of defense into them.

[StrikerFox]

Mercenaries (untested)

 

These are the guys that gave me the idea to try out procs, but I never got around to testing them. After looking at their attacks in Pines, the situation is pretty depressing. Wish mercs could get some love.  :(

 

1. Soldiers - 3 attacks for Lady Grey. Decent, but it's a minion, so..

 

2. Spec Ops - 2 attacks for Lady Grey. Unfortunately, they'll also spend a lot of time using their varied CC, which can't really be slotted for procs.

 

3. Commando - 2 Explosive Strike, 2 Lady Grey. Not as impressive as Demon Prince or Bruiser, since you need to use up 2 slots.

 

I actually think Mercs benefit the most from procs. With the right slotting, their dps could jump from second last to third among MM pets (Behind Ninjas and Thugs). If anyone has a taunter on Torchbearer, I would love to do some pet dps testing on a pylon.

[balor]

Ok a few things first Beasts are a hot mess and I can't tell what they really have as far as trying to get procs for them. The wiki's is not that detailed when it comes to them. 

 

Jounin Gray lady works well but it also have options for Accurate to-hit Debuff and Accurate Defense Debuff but what attacks are connected to those? 

 

 

[Dixa]

STAHP! i dont want to roll anymore thugs mm's i already have 4.

[BGSacho]

Ok a few things first Beasts are a hot mess and I can't tell what they really have as far as trying to get procs for them. The wiki's is not that detailed when it comes to them. 

 

Jounin Gray lady works well but it also have options for Accurate to-hit Debuff and Accurate Defense Debuff but what attacks are connected to those?

 

If you use Pines, you can go to Options -> Advanced -> Database Editor. It takes a while to get used to browsing it, but it contains a lot of useful information. The Accurate To-Hit probably comes from Blinding Powder.

[Erydanus]

So thinking of this thread I did a little experiment as I had been musing.

 

You know the 5 prestige starter enhancements that have damage procs (and the 5th is knockdown) are well, basically universal damage enhancements. They literally go in any attack that does damage. And while they only function as procs to level 21 I still thought it would be interesting to try them out so I stuck the knockdown one into my level 2 necro MM's zombie horde power.

 

Sure enough, Might of the Empire started proccing about every 5 punches causing hellions to be knocked down. Ok, so they do work in pets and I've got a level 2 character with no damaging attacks except the zombies so I added 2 slots to zombies and put in two damage proces. Well and also they're 16% damage each so it's suddenly like I have 1 damage SO and 2 damage procs and a knockdown proc in said zombies and well ....

 

[Pretend there is a gif of a gothy mastermind chortling "very good" like an evil mastermind here]

 

So it turns out those procs add about 4 damage on to the 16 damage the zombie's punch was doing and I saw no reason to stop there so I went ahead and five slotted zombie horde with ALL five of the starter enhancements which if you're doing the math is 82% damage enhancement, 4 damage procs and a knockdown procs which is technically the equivalent of an 8-slot frankenslot situation

 

So now my zombie's punching things for 24 damage and another 6 from a damage proc which is happening right about half the time (the knockdown separately continues to be about once every 5 or 6 punches) and I just leveled up and got my second zombie.

 

[Pretend there is another gif of a gothy mastermind or youtuber "VERY GOOD" like Mr. Burns or a really eeeevil mastermind here]

 

Anyway I'm off to rampage across King's Row for as long as these procs work. :)

 

EDIT: Or not. Suddenly the procs aren't proccing AT ALL. Now that I have 2 zombies and the upgrade power I thought I'd be seeing even more knockdowns and double damage packets and I just ran a routine radio mission and didn't see a single hellion get knocked down and I scrolled back and don't see a single proc activation message. That is WEIRD.

 

Ok more testing - resummoned zombies and made sure that I didn't use the upgrade on them so it was just punching and not punching and zombie vomit. Nothing - and also the punch damage was a lot lower than it was before. (I logged off and mowed the lawn and came back and wrote the post). Ok but follow this ... with 1 zombie it was punching for like, 24 damage and a proc for 6 right? Suddenly my 2 zombies (which of course are now -1 level) are suddenly punching for 15-16 damage and no proc check right.

 

So I YANK OUT THE ENHANCEMENTS, dismiss the zombies, summon two fresh ones and they're doing the exact same damage with their punch. When I only had 1 zombie in my hoard the enhancements were buffing its damage and the procs were checking. As soon as I had two zombies the actual damage enhancement value of the enhancements stopped applying to their punch attacks and the procs weren't being checked. Someone suggested a while back that mastermind pets aren't benefitting from damage enhancements and this may be proof that's really happening.

[SmalltalkJava]

So thinking of this thread I did a little experiment as I had been musing.

 

You know the 5 prestige starter enhancements that have damage procs (and the 5th is knockdown) are well, basically universal damage enhancements. They literally go in any attack that does damage. And while they only function as procs to level 21 I still thought it would be interesting to try them out so I stuck the knockdown one into my level 2 necro MM's zombie horde power.

 

Sure enough, Might of the Empire started proccing about every 5 punches causing hellions to be knocked down. Ok, so they do work in pets and I've got a level 2 character with no damaging attacks except the zombies so I added 2 slots to zombies and put in two damage proces. Well and also they're 16% damage each so it's suddenly like I have 1 damage SO and 2 damage procs and a knockdown proc in said zombies and well ....

 

[Pretend there is a gif of a gothy mastermind chortling "very good" like an evil mastermind here]

 

So it turns out those procs add about 4 damage on to the 16 damage the zombie's punch was doing and I saw no reason to stop there so I went ahead and five slotted zombie horde with ALL five of the starter enhancements which if you're doing the math is 82% damage enhancement, 4 damage procs and a knockdown procs which is technically the equivalent of an 8-slot frankenslot situation

 

So now my zombie's punching things for 24 damage and another 6 from a damage proc which is happening right about half the time (the knockdown separately continues to be about once every 5 or 6 punches) and I just leveled up and got my second zombie.

 

[Pretend there is another gif of a gothy mastermind or youtuber "VERY GOOD" like Mr. Burns or a really eeeevil mastermind here]

 

Anyway I'm off to rampage across King's Row for as long as these procs work. :)

 

EDIT: Or not. Suddenly the procs aren't proccing AT ALL. Now that I have 2 zombies and the upgrade power I thought I'd be seeing even more knockdowns and double damage packets and I just ran a routine radio mission and didn't see a single hellion get knocked down and I scrolled back and don't see a single proc activation message. That is WEIRD.

 

Ok more testing - resummoned zombies and made sure that I didn't use the upgrade on them so it was just punching and not punching and zombie vomit. Nothing - and also the punch damage was a lot lower than it was before. (I logged off and mowed the lawn and came back and wrote the post). Ok but follow this ... with 1 zombie it was punching for like, 24 damage and a proc for 6 right? Suddenly my 2 zombies (which of course are now -1 level) are suddenly punching for 15-16 damage and no proc check right.

 

So I YANK OUT THE ENHANCEMENTS, dismiss the zombies, summon two fresh ones and they're doing the exact same damage with their punch. When I only had 1 zombie in my hoard the enhancements were buffing its damage and the procs were checking. As soon as I had two zombies the actual damage enhancement value of the enhancements stopped applying to their punch attacks and the procs weren't being checked. Someone suggested a while back that mastermind pets aren't benefitting from damage enhancements and this may be proof that's really happening.

 

Report this as a bug. It could be that the enhancements themselves, or even the order they are slotted.  (Doubtful) are bugged. Those pet types are bugged  or a mix of the two are bugged.  There are a lot of variables that will need to be tested.  Someone did a regular enhancement test in the forum somewhere and regular enhancements worked as long as the pets were summoned afterward the slotting occurred

 

THANKS FOR THE TESTING.  YOU ROCK!

[kelly Rocket]

So thinking of this thread I did a little experiment as I had been musing.

 

You know the 5 prestige starter enhancements that have damage procs (and the 5th is knockdown) are well, basically universal damage enhancements. They literally go in any attack that does damage. And while they only function as procs to level 21 I still thought it would be interesting to try them out so I stuck the knockdown one into my level 2 necro MM's zombie horde power.

 

Sure enough, Might of the Empire started proccing about every 5 punches causing hellions to be knocked down. Ok, so they do work in pets and I've got a level 2 character with no damaging attacks except the zombies so I added 2 slots to zombies and put in two damage proces. Well and also they're 16% damage each so it's suddenly like I have 1 damage SO and 2 damage procs and a knockdown proc in said zombies and well ....

 

[Pretend there is a gif of a gothy mastermind chortling "very good" like an evil mastermind here]

 

So it turns out those procs add about 4 damage on to the 16 damage the zombie's punch was doing and I saw no reason to stop there so I went ahead and five slotted zombie horde with ALL five of the starter enhancements which if you're doing the math is 82% damage enhancement, 4 damage procs and a knockdown procs which is technically the equivalent of an 8-slot frankenslot situation

 

So now my zombie's punching things for 24 damage and another 6 from a damage proc which is happening right about half the time (the knockdown separately continues to be about once every 5 or 6 punches) and I just leveled up and got my second zombie.

 

[Pretend there is another gif of a gothy mastermind or youtuber "VERY GOOD" like Mr. Burns or a really eeeevil mastermind here]

 

Anyway I'm off to rampage across King's Row for as long as these procs work. :)

 

EDIT: Or not. Suddenly the procs aren't proccing AT ALL. Now that I have 2 zombies and the upgrade power I thought I'd be seeing even more knockdowns and double damage packets and I just ran a routine radio mission and didn't see a single hellion get knocked down and I scrolled back and don't see a single proc activation message. That is WEIRD.

 

Ok more testing - resummoned zombies and made sure that I didn't use the upgrade on them so it was just punching and not punching and zombie vomit. Nothing - and also the punch damage was a lot lower than it was before. (I logged off and mowed the lawn and came back and wrote the post). Ok but follow this ... with 1 zombie it was punching for like, 24 damage and a proc for 6 right? Suddenly my 2 zombies (which of course are now -1 level) are suddenly punching for 15-16 damage and no proc check right.

 

So I YANK OUT THE ENHANCEMENTS, dismiss the zombies, summon two fresh ones and they're doing the exact same damage with their punch. When I only had 1 zombie in my hoard the enhancements were buffing its damage and the procs were checking. As soon as I had two zombies the actual damage enhancement value of the enhancements stopped applying to their punch attacks and the procs weren't being checked. Someone suggested a while back that mastermind pets aren't benefitting from damage enhancements and this may be proof that's really happening.

 

Try resummoning after slotting the enhancements. I have a theory that they're losing the enhancements when you zone with them or relog, unless you resummon them again.

[Chance Jackson]

In an effort to squeeze out more DPS out of pets, considering the limited effective slotting options, I've been experimenting with adding damage procs. Disclaimer: I'm fairly new to the game(this is my first server!) so I may have gaps in my understanding, and some of this is theoretical(I haven't tested every pet/proc combination)

 

Before we discuss procs, it's useful to discuss damage on pets in general. From https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Purple_Patch we can see that our pets have the following damage modifiers at +0/+4:

Pet	+0	+4
Minions	0.80	0.15(!)
Lieutenants	0.90	0.30
Bosses	1.0	0.48

 

Pet damage varies wildly depending on the primary, and I haven't really done a thorough "dps" analysis, but this sheet helps with some ballpark numbers - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19VuZ9zJ_8eKN11JytgaK9mt9Fy-8pjANopb-FGh68Uw/edit#gid=537542171 Unfortunately, that sheet doesn't take the purple patch into consideration, which varies pet dps even more.

 

As you can see(or maybe not, that sheet took me a while to understand  ;D), most minions do 10-20 dps per pet - battle drones being the low end and genin the high end. Unfortunately these numbers don't have purple patch scaling applied to them. Also, take these "dps" numbers with a grain of salt, and only as a comparison between MM pets.

 

Here's some quick numbers on what you can expect at +0/+4 :

 

- 15 avg "base dps" per minion - 12 at +0, 2.25 at +4 (!!)

- 25 avg "base dps" per lt - 22.5 at +0, 7.5 at +4

- 35 avg "base dps" per boss - 35 at +0, 16.8 at +4 (this one has the highest variance, so YMMV)

 

You can see how your minions are worth less and less at higher +x, and your lts and boss contribute most of the damage. This is unfortunate for necro for example, which has the lowest dps boss(10), and mercs, which have a low dps boss AND low dps lts.

 

Now, onto procs, a quick primer:

 

Procs work on a so-called "PPM" system. What this means is that the chance to trigger takes into account a power's activation time + recharge time. So if a proc has 1 PPM, and you slot it into a power with a 30s activation + recharge time, you'll have 50% chance to proc each time you use the power. More info here(especially on AoE attacks) - https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Procs_Per_Minute

 

Here's the good, the bad and the ugly about procs on pets:

 

- (Good) - procs aren't scaled down by the number of pets - a proc into minions will not do a third of the damage as a proc in a boss! This means that MMs are uniquely positioned to abuse the hell out of procs, as we can multiply the number of sources

- (Bad) - since pets don't benefit from recharge, this isn't necessarily as strong as you might imagine. Most "real dps" have 200% recharge or more, which means they get triple the benefit out of each proc they slot in already(procs use base recharge time to calculate the chance to proc).

I'm afraid your info is a little out of date, iirc ppms were nerfed to take modified recharge into account in i24 which doesn't negatively impact Pet attacks.

[StrikerFox]

I've been using the SNBR damage meter BGSacho mentioned in the MM Pylon Damage Thread. It's a pretty solid indicator on how the procs perform on each pet. Took down a pylon, and screenshot the data. Under each pet, any line item with the word, "bonus," is damage done by procs.

 

Warpath - Commando - Explosive Strike (12.2% proc damage)

Prowl - Soldiers - Lady Grey/Shield Breaker (32.2% combine proc damage)

Smokescreen - Spec Ops - Lady Grey/Shield Breaker (28.8% combine proc damage)

Red Alert - Medic - Lady Grey/Shield Breaker (38% combine proc damage)

Mirage - Spec Ops - Lady Grey/Shield Breaker (21.1% combine proc damage)

Sideswipe - Soldiers - Lady Grey/Shield Breaker (28.4% combine proc dam)

 

Four slotted procs accounted for about 29% of T1+T2 pet damage. I'm excluding Commando because Explosive Strike in kind of low and I may swap it out for a unique aura, to test a proc in Tornado.

 

But this data is a short 105 second test. I'm going to do a 30 minute proc test the next MSR raid I run into.

 

[Nyghtmaire]

@Strikerfox- that’s fascinating data, especially regarding the value of your reactive interface dot. Thank you for posting. Are you running the Achilles Heel proc in your setup as well? I can see Mercs being very slot hungry (which /storm helps alleviate).

[Marshal_General]

I would love to know how you can run storm on a MM without logging onto your other characters and finding its sucked their blue bar dry too.

[Nyghtmaire]

I would love to know how you can run storm on a MM without logging onto your other characters and finding its sucked their blue bar dry too.

 

[Dixa]

So thinking of this thread I did a little experiment as I had been musing.

 

You know the 5 prestige starter enhancements that have damage procs (and the 5th is knockdown) are well, basically universal damage enhancements. They literally go in any attack that does damage. And while they only function as procs to level 21 I still thought it would be interesting to try them out so I stuck the knockdown one into my level 2 necro MM's zombie horde power.

 

Sure enough, Might of the Empire started proccing about every 5 punches causing hellions to be knocked down. Ok, so they do work in pets and I've got a level 2 character with no damaging attacks except the zombies so I added 2 slots to zombies and put in two damage proces. Well and also they're 16% damage each so it's suddenly like I have 1 damage SO and 2 damage procs and a knockdown proc in said zombies and well ....

 

[Pretend there is a gif of a gothy mastermind chortling "very good" like an evil mastermind here]

 

So it turns out those procs add about 4 damage on to the 16 damage the zombie's punch was doing and I saw no reason to stop there so I went ahead and five slotted zombie horde with ALL five of the starter enhancements which if you're doing the math is 82% damage enhancement, 4 damage procs and a knockdown procs which is technically the equivalent of an 8-slot frankenslot situation

 

So now my zombie's punching things for 24 damage and another 6 from a damage proc which is happening right about half the time (the knockdown separately continues to be about once every 5 or 6 punches) and I just leveled up and got my second zombie.

 

[Pretend there is another gif of a gothy mastermind or youtuber "VERY GOOD" like Mr. Burns or a really eeeevil mastermind here]

 

Anyway I'm off to rampage across King's Row for as long as these procs work. :)

 

EDIT: Or not. Suddenly the procs aren't proccing AT ALL. Now that I have 2 zombies and the upgrade power I thought I'd be seeing even more knockdowns and double damage packets and I just ran a routine radio mission and didn't see a single hellion get knocked down and I scrolled back and don't see a single proc activation message. That is WEIRD.

 

Ok more testing - resummoned zombies and made sure that I didn't use the upgrade on them so it was just punching and not punching and zombie vomit. Nothing - and also the punch damage was a lot lower than it was before. (I logged off and mowed the lawn and came back and wrote the post). Ok but follow this ... with 1 zombie it was punching for like, 24 damage and a proc for 6 right? Suddenly my 2 zombies (which of course are now -1 level) are suddenly punching for 15-16 damage and no proc check right.

 

So I YANK OUT THE ENHANCEMENTS, dismiss the zombies, summon two fresh ones and they're doing the exact same damage with their punch. When I only had 1 zombie in my hoard the enhancements were buffing its damage and the procs were checking. As soon as I had two zombies the actual damage enhancement value of the enhancements stopped applying to their punch attacks and the procs weren't being checked. Someone suggested a while back that mastermind pets aren't benefitting from damage enhancements and this may be proof that's really happening.

 

Enhancement changes are not real time for pets. You need to resummon when you change them

[StrikerFox]

@Strikerfox- that’s fascinating data, especially regarding the value of your reactive interface dot. Thank you for posting. Are you running the Achilles Heel proc in your setup as well? I can see Mercs being very slot hungry (which /storm helps alleviate).

 

Yes, Achilles' is slotted in Spec Ops and Freezing Rain. FR also has Annihilation debuff IO. Soldiers probably would be the better option but they're jammed packed with other IOs. Reactive is great but don't discount Degenerative.  Degen won't really show up on the dps meter the same way Reactive does, but over on the Scrapper's Pylon Kill thread, Degen has proven to be more effective. BGSacho has some great results using it with Thugs. Reduce an enemy's hp, which in turn reduces their regen, and add proc damage. I'm going to switch over as soon as I collect some incarnate mats.

 

I would love to know how you can run storm on a MM without logging onto your other characters and finding its sucked their blue bar dry too.

 

Endurance is not that bad when 50+, fully IO'd and have incarnates. My build has recovery of 3.08 e/s, end use of 1.46 e/s (Leadership x3, Steamy Mist and Scorpion Shield). So recovery is actually 1.62 e/s.

 

I put Storm's big 3 powers into Obitus' dps calculator.

 

 

Their end consumption averages out to 1.584 e/s with Hasten and 1.267 e/s without Hasten. I gain slightly more end than they burn.

 

I use Snow Storm occassionally, Hurricane almost never except when dps testing vs a pylon. Keeping Gale on auto during long battles is what hurts my end the most.

 

[Titomancer]

Dont those "Prestige Enhancements" that we get on start only have procs until 20?  If your procs stopped working, what level?

[Dixa]

Dont those "Prestige Enhancements" that we get on start only have procs until 20?  If your procs stopped working, what level?

 

the damage proc stops the minute you level up to 21. however this thread isn't about those.

[Jaynen]

Ninja is definitely tight on slots, atm I was thinking

Explosive Strike on Genin because it works off the chance to knockback on the kicks? But then I realized only one kick gets it. This means Genin are going to be holding a lot of the auras

I was thinking lady grey and an achilles heel on the jounin

Oni the only one that seemed maybe useful was knockback to knockdown chance to knockdown from overwhelming force if it works off his aoe's

[Redlynne]

Oni the only one that seemed maybe useful was knockback to knockdown chance to knockdown from overwhelming force if it works off his aoe's

 

If you're going to put Overwhelming Force into Ninjas, you are FAR better off slotting the KB>KD proc into Genin, because Genin will throw a LOT more attacks than the Oni will, resulting in a Chuck Lots Of Dice! response to being able to get the Knockdown proc to happen.  It's even funnier with the Exploding Shuriken the Genin will throw with the Level 32 upgrade.

[Soulstinger]

Regarding Lady Grey's damage proc in Necromancy's Knights; wouldnt Achilis'Heel -resist proc be better overall?