Aggravated

[ZacKing]

Just now, cranebump said:

(but really, how hard is it to just turn off GF, finish the TF, then move on?)

 

How could they claim to be a victim if they did that?  🤣

[Neiska]

Edited Tuesday at 12:46 AM by Neiska

[Snarky]

[Ironblade]

8 hours ago, Gravitus said:

If I wasn't a casual gamer with limited time that would be more feasible.... but seeing as how the devs have already provided a solution, would it not morally fall on the other players who don't want it to deal with it? 

 

hmm....  would it not morally fall on the other players to go out of their way and take extra actions to prevent YOUR powers from messing with them?  um, no.

[High_Beam]

Sits in the corner laughing; welcome to the land of Knockback where everyone hates you!

[Gravitus]

1 hour ago, TygerDarkstorm said:

Using group fly to keep your bots out of melee range of an AV or any mob is absolutely not a requirement and having it doesn't somehow make you superior. There are numerous ways to keep your bots out of range, one of which is the go-to command. Bots are not required to be in the air to stay at range. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge any part you could have played to be in the wrong is not winning you any favors in this thread, on top of making statements like this that somehow imply group fly is a requirement to play bots well.

 

Let's be honest; the main reason some bots players take group fly is because bots getting rocket boots is amusing, not because it's necessary.

I acknowledged rocket boots being one of the things I liked. I mean that’s reason enough honestly. 

There are lots of unnecessary things if you wanna get to it. A team of 8 for example when you have people soloing TFs 

 

 

[Ukase]

So, with 6 pages of posts in 10 hours - and I'm not reading any of it yet, because I don't wish to be swayed one way or the other with someone's clear, concise logic. 

First - I think if someone kicked you for that during a TF, they should stub more than their toe! It's a petty thing to do. This is a game. People have no idea who they're playing with, and they consistently (some folks, not all) act like their time is the only time that matters. These other players could be special needs, they could be a 10 year old, on a PUG, you have no idea who or what you're going to get. And like a box of chocolates, some people will melt when things get hot! 

So, I feel badly that this happened to you, and I'm pissed off for you. 


That said - while I know there is a null the gull who can turn that off (and I do turn this off as soon as I change alignment to get Invader) not everyone has that routine. And anyone can get distracted and forget to do this. Communication is important. What kind of run, speedy, steamroll, kill most, if the team lead doesn't mention anything, if they're sub 50, you can either assume it's a kill most, or ask. If they're 50, you can assume it's a speed-ish, or ask. If I don't ask, I'll suffer the whims of fate, only complaining on my side of the monitor. 

When your team lead asks you to turn it off, you should consider the request. A lot of melee folks cannot melee if they are in your orbit hovering around. And even if they're ranged - it's impossible to joust about when you're hovering. And your group fly is woefully slow compared to Super Speed or teleport in most cases. It might look cool to you - but you're not in a vacuum. You're one part of a whole. A team. It's a shame you thought your own enjoyment was more important than your team leaders. Of course, the team lead thought their enjoyment was more important than yours. He was team lead, so he has the ability to be a jerk and took it. 

But remember - they did ask first. Did they ask nicely? Or did they use CAPS and tell you to turn that crap off? Either way, while I think it was a jerk move to kick you, choosing to not progress the tf and visit Null to turn it off isn't likely to be on the forefront of their minds. (although they've probably done it now, so there's that) I think the proper thing to do when teamed is to not use it when they ask you not to. But that's just me. It's your time, do what you like. 

[Ukase]

6 hours ago, Gravitus said:

Well now that you know about it, if you forgot, would you get mad at someone for using it still? 

As promised, reading through after I posted my initial thoughts. 

This is a fair question. I wouldn't get mad at you, I would get mad at me. That doesn't mean I wouldn't take it out on you. I would tell you to turn it off because it's unnecessary and cramping my style. And if you didn't, if it were a TF, I'd suffer through it and 2 star you with a note explaining why so I could see it later if I ran into you. I'm sure I'd be a little rude, but I wouldn't kick you unless you were a real jerk, like being afk in the previous mission for more than 5 minutes while we're trying to advance the TF. (with no prior acceptable explanation) 

Try to realize - as was mentioned previously by myself and others. You have no idea who's behind the keyboard. Some folks are just well, terribly sad. I mean, really! Like suicidal type of sad. Some folks have made miserable life choices and as a result are truly miserable, and only feel imaginary joy when they can make you miserable! Makes you want to solo now, doesn't it? 
Some folks are so cheery and nice, you kind of wonder what kind of barn they were raised in. The barn I was raised in smelled pretty ripe, I can tell you! 

[Andreah]

You can tell a topic gets people excited when if gets so many responses in just a few hours. 

 

I agree, group fly is annoying. I always turn it off for my characters immediately when I create them. But not everyone does, and it's often just because they're in a hurry to get to content and eventually forget about it.

 

But a team leader's request should be honored, even on a TF. If it were me, I would follow the request, or politely leave the team. 

[seebs]

11 hours ago, Gravitus said:

If I wasn't a casual gamer with limited time that would be more feasible.... but seeing as how the devs have already provided a solution, would it not morally fall on the other players who don't want it to deal with it? 

you can make it other people's problem to deal with your actions, but if you do, they will probably dislike you and avoid you, and that's sort of normal. this is why we learn social skills and try to be somewhat accommodating, so other people will like us more.

[Scarlet Shocker]

15 hours ago, Gravitus said:

If I wasn't a casual gamer with limited time that would be more feasible.... but seeing as how the devs have already provided a solution, would it not morally fall on the other players who don't want it to deal with it? 

 

Don't be so entitled.

 

Your time is no more valuable than the next person's. You were given a reasonable request and failed to respond in a reasonable manner.

Most players have an intense dislike of group fly for many reasons listed here. You chose to use it despite being asked not to.

 

I'm not surprised you got booted.

[Jacktar]

Hi, have asked this before but not sure if I ever got an answer, so, why is the Null group fly option not set to OFF by default and then when you take it as a power pick you then have to go to Null to activate it?

Then the many who do not want to be affected by it will have no problem.

As stated a few times in the thread the days when GF was possibly used because characters did not have a fly power are long gone.

We are knee deep in fly abilities now even to the extent of being given a free one in Atlas for levelling or collecting the explore badges (forget which), so GF is very much a niche power used by (imho) mainly Mm’s) so the default being OFF now does make more sense.

I thank you.

[twozerofoxtrot]

  

17 hours ago, Gravitus said:

As a casual gamer my time is very valuable to me

 

17 hours ago, Gravitus said:

If I wasn't a casual gamer with limited time

 

10 hours ago, Gravitus said:

Dude I got like 4 accounts with no limit in sight. If I want to play this game I’m gonna play this game.

 

[Laucianna]

I do think without any of us actually being there and seeing what was said it is hard to judge, as someone mentioned in this loooooong post of comments that if the team lead got annoyed half way and started being rude in their request to turn it off "Who the f*ck has that waste of space power Group Fly? Turn it off or I will smite you from the heavens above!" then they are the jerk 100%, but if they were polite with their request "Hey, some people aren't able to use their powers and forgot to turn off group fly at Null, are you able to just turn it off when in missions for us please?" then it's up to you as a player what option you take, do you:

1 - Turn off Group Fly for the rest of the TF when in missions, losing out on some DPS/Survivability for the sake of others, making the time you have already invested not wasted.
2 - Refuse on principle that they could of turned it off before, leading to you being kicked and your time wasted.

We can not control how other people are going to act or plan according to how we play, all we can do is chose how we are going to react to the situation when it arises ❤️

[Gravitus]

9 hours ago, Ironblade said:

 

hmm....  would it not morally fall on the other players to go out of their way and take extra actions to prevent YOUR powers from messing with them?  um, no.

Except that going to null is there for that purpose just like GF exists to be used. 

[KC4800]

I have a bots MM with GF that I play. If the leader asked me to turn it off I would have, without question. It would also dramatically change my play style. I would de-spawn my bots and go stealthy, maybe only keep the one big one out to defend myself. I'd have to adapt, and I'd accept that challenge. This game has so much damage available now, the team would have to find how to succeed without my offensive contribution. Just a pew-pew gun and some air superiority. Run away and live to fight another day. 

 

Is that passive aggressive? Perhaps. But it is logical. You have to protect yourself. Bots do create a lot of agro, some unintended. If you cant maneuver above the fray, you have to do what you have to do.

Edited Tuesday at 11:09 AM by KC4800

[Erratic1]

4 minutes ago, KC4800 said:

Is that passive aggressive? Perhaps. But it is logical. You have to protect yourself. Bots do create a lot of agro, some unintended. If you cant maneuver above the fray, you have to do what you have to do.

 

You have Group Fly but do not have Fly?

[KC4800]

2 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

You have Group Fly but do not have Fly?

Certainly. And I'd use it. When it would help me. But fly doesn't do anything to your henchmen, so why call them out? Pew-pew-pew! Yep the gun works. 🙂

[Maelwys]

3 hours ago, Jacktar said:

Hi, have asked this before but not sure if I ever got an answer, so, why is the Null group fly option not set to OFF by default and then when you take it as a power pick you then have to go to Null to activate it?

If memory serves the way Null's various "I don't want X to affect me" abilities are currently coded is as a series of different "tokens" - a bit like invisible passive powers/flags.
If an entity possesses the correct token, then relevant power effects are counteracted at the point of casting and have no effect on them.

You can see this in the CoDv2 entry for Group Fly as the condition:

if !target.TokenOwned?(Power_DisallowGroupFly)

Which translates as "if the target does not possess a token named Power_DisallowGroupFly then apply the affect on them"

It's quite technically possible to reverse this condition - making Group Fly ONLY affect other player entities which have such a token.
However you would also need to make Group Fly provide two additional effects in order to continue to apply to the original owner of the power and their pets (otherwise someone could pick a power and have it do nothing for them until they visit Null)
(i) An effect which has a maximum target cap of 0 "Self"; that provides Group Fly buffs regardless of any Null the Gull flags and affects ONLY YOU.
(ii) An effect which has a maximum target cap of 255 "Own Pet (Alive)"; that provides Group Fly buffs regardless of flags to ONLY YOUR PETS (this may need a wide number of caveats to pin down all the allowed entity types - examples here and here - although a similar setup already exists with the "Boost doubled for Pets" Support Hybrid powers)

So quite doable, but would need a tweak or two from the already infamously busy powers team.
 

Edited Tuesday at 11:42 AM by Maelwys

[Excraft]

1 hour ago, Gravitus said:

Except that going to null is there for that purpose just like GF exists to be used. 

 

Except that GF is a toggle that can be turned off at any time. 

[Seed22]

OP, even though they seem to display serious narcissism and main character syndrome, it sucks that they got booted at the tail end of the TF. Which is weird. I don’t know if they were using GF all throughout the TF, and if so why not boot them at the beginning? Or if it were used in that one mish and then the incident occurred in which case OP subscribed to the FAFO method. 
 

Thats the only way I could see this being two sided, otherwise its pretty cut n dry. 

Edited Tuesday at 01:03 PM by Seed22

[Erratic1]

1 hour ago, KC4800 said:

Certainly. And I'd use it. When it would help me. But fly doesn't do anything to your henchmen, so why call them out? Pew-pew-pew! Yep the gun works. 🙂

 

You say you need to be out of the fray, not your robots need to be out of it. Fly puts you out of the fray. 

 

Moreover, in order to get to Group Fly you have to take other powers first...so the option to be out of the fray is already there .

[TygerDarkstorm]

1 hour ago, KC4800 said:

I have a bots MM with GF that I play. If the leader asked me to turn it off I would have, without question. It would also dramatically change my play style. I would de-spawn my bots and go stealthy, maybe only keep the one big one out to defend myself. I'd have to adapt, and I'd accept that challenge. This game has so much damage available now, the team would have to find how to succeed without my offensive contribution. Just a pew-pew gun and some air superiority. Run away and live to fight another day. 

 

Is that passive aggressive? Perhaps. But it is logical. You have to protect yourself. Bots do create a lot of agro, some unintended. If you cant maneuver above the fray, you have to do what you have to do.

I do not understand the logic that you and the OP are using that bots are somehow ineffective if you can't be in the air flying with them. Bodyguard mode is a thing (which probably won't get used in a TF if you're flying anyway and having to command the bots to attack), so you gain some survivability there. You also have a secondary with which to be supporting them as well as your go-to command, which keeps you in bodyguard mode and allows you to position your henchmen where you need them so they can still survive and DPS. Group fly is not the only way to play a bots MM.

[TygerDarkstorm]

11 hours ago, Gravitus said:

I acknowledged rocket boots being one of the things I liked. I mean that’s reason enough honestly. 

There are lots of unnecessary things if you wanna get to it. A team of 8 for example when you have people soloing TFs 

 

 

Rocket boots is not enough of a reason to grief other players with group fly. Group fly is not a necessary tool to play an MM well (including bots). If you can not take a modicum of responsibility for your actions and how they affect others, and acknowledge that all of our time playing this game is valuable (you are hardly the only casual player with limited playing time), then you're going to find yourself getting booted quite a bit.

[MoonSheep]

playing a mastermind is bad enough, but playing one with group fly is just adding another layer to the lasagna of disappointment