How many Masterminds are too many Masterminds?

[Yomo Kimyata]

This is not a trolling post, and I humbly request we keep it that way.

 

So the other day I led a Yin TF and had 4 of 8 Masterminds.  Let's just say that visibility wasn't great for the next (less than) thirty minutes.

 

Now, I like Masterminds.  Some of my best friends are Masterminds.  There's not an anti-Mastermind bone in my body (except possibly my stirrup)!  I even dated a Mastermind in college!  And I in no way feel like gatekeeping my PUGs, but is it possible that there is such a thing as too many Masterminds on a team?  Exceptions of course for all-Mastermind teams, which I find hilarious.

[Erratic1]

Why do you need to see if pets are swarming everything?

[Snarky]

8 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

This is not a trolling post, and I humbly request we keep it that way.

 

So the other day I led a Yin TF and had 4 of 8 Masterminds.  Let's just say that visibility wasn't great for the next (less than) thirty minutes.

 

Now, I like Masterminds.  Some of my best friends are Masterminds.  There's not an anti-Mastermind bone in my body (except possibly my stirrup)!  I even dated a Mastermind in college!  And I in no way feel like gatekeeping my PUGs, but is it possible that there is such a thing as too many Masterminds on a team?  Exceptions of course for all-Mastermind teams, which I find hilarious.

it was a sub 30 run, was it +0 ?  +2.. 4...  ?   how did it feel?  visibility for crap.  ok, i would hover in that case but i always fly...  

[Uncle Shags]

My favorite is when I drop a full aoe rotation including nuke on a big group of baddies and wonder wtf they're still standing. Then I realize I just blew my load on a pile of pets... 

[Yomo Kimyata]

9 minutes ago, Snarky said:

it was a sub 30 run, was it +0 ?  +2.. 4...  ?   how did it feel?  visibility for crap.  ok, i would hover in that case but i always fly...  

 

I'm a snob so I start every one at +2 and move it higher if it's a particularly good pug and people agree.  It is rather uncommon that it takes more than 30 minutes, and that is pretty much with the only request being "pls don't click computers until after the ambushes are over".  Anything more than that is some sort of management, and ain't nobody got time or desire for that.

 

On an aside, I think it is the team leader's obligation to own and throw down Team Teleport after the second mission!

[twozerofoxtrot]

Tab key exists.

 

Bring all the masterminds. 

[Yomo Kimyata]

14 minutes ago, Uncle Shags said:

My favorite is when I drop a full aoe rotation including nuke on a big group of baddies and wonder wtf they're still standing. Then I realize I just blew my load on a pile of pets... 

 

I did a Yin with a defender who was in the Cim Surgeon costume and I swear I tried to kill him at least a dozen times in each mission.

[TygerDarkstorm]

11 minutes ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

Tab key exists.

 

Bring all the masterminds. 

This is the way. Plus, there is a setting in options that allows you to show pet names for other players, thus making it so you don't confuse them among enemy mobs.

[Ceejer]

Run a 8 MM Necro/Storm, then you understand pets. 

[srmalloy]

1 hour ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

So the other day I led a Yin TF and had 4 of 8 Masterminds.  Let's just say that visibility wasn't great for the next (less than) thirty minutes.

Count yourself lucky. Back on Live, I joined an all-Mastermind ITF that Kay was running -- and this was before the collision boxes for MM pets were turned off, so the cave missions were practically un-navigable from all the pets filling the tunnels.

[arcane]

1

[merrypessimist]

Maximum raid size is 32, right? Then "too many" MMs is 33.

[biostem]

4 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

is it possible that there is such a thing as too many Masterminds on a team?

The problem isn't that there are too many masterminds, it's that it is too easy, (possibly even the default mode of play for most MMs), that they don't take proper care to *not* block chokepoints or otherwise block the view, with their pets...

[MoonSheep]

4 hours ago, arcane said:

1

 

i too am a hater of masterminds and used to actively exclude them from my kin-led KM ITF runs, however i’ve found the melee ones once i’ve hit them with fulcrum shift and speed boost can actually be quite good

 

my biggest frustration now are players who stay entirely at range miles away from combat whilst the rest of the team has +300% DMG from FS having a wild time. those ranged players just aren’t contributing to the progress in such situations but kicking feels a bit harsh

Edited yesterday at 07:45 AM by MoonSheep

[Water]

9

[GM Crumpet]

2 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

 

i too am a hater of masterminds and used to actively exclude them from my kin-led KM ITF runs, however i’ve found the melee ones once i’ve hit them with fulcrum shift and speed boost can actually be quite good

 

my biggest frustration now are players who stay entirely at range miles away from combat whilst the rest of the team has +300% DMG from FS having a wild time. those ranged players just aren’t contributing to the progress in such situations but kicking feels a bit harsh

I find it counter intuitive to be close to melee range as a blaster, but what the heck. That's what tanks and clouds of green numbers are for 🙂 

[Black Zot]

3 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

 

i too am a hater of masterminds and used to actively exclude them from my kin-led KM ITF runs, however i’ve found the melee ones once i’ve hit them with fulcrum shift and speed boost can actually be quite good

 

my biggest frustration now are players who stay entirely at range miles away from combat whilst the rest of the team has +300% DMG from FS having a wild time. those ranged players just aren’t contributing to the progress in such situations but kicking feels a bit harsh

 

Standing at melee range is a fast way to turn "squishy" into "squished".  It's not an easy instinct to overcome.

[Techwright]

I'll occasionally do the "Mastermind Monday" stuff, and yeah, visibility is tough, but I think there are three factors at play:

1. number of pets deployed

2. number of power effects deployed, and the color intensity and opacity of those effects

3. the type of map:  a large outdoor area, a broad tunnel, blue tunnel, or the Katie Hannon TF in the narrow Redcap tunnels with roots sticking out.

 

The more pets deployed, the more effects, and the tighter the map, the less I like a lot of masterminds.

And yes, I know about the macro to turn off power effects.  I do use it on my masterminds, however, there's a tradeoff as visual effects communicate information at times, such as who is shielded properly, rather than just putting up bright colors and cool patterns.

 

I've found if a full MM team is in a city street map, for example, I generally like the full MM team.  The Redcap tunnels, though, I cannot wait to see the exit signal.

[Scarlet Shocker]

This is probably an extremely useful thing in such circumstance:

 

[JasperStone]

I participated in an all MM MSR ...

Never too many MMs

[Octogoat]

14 minutes ago, JasperStone said:

I participated in an all MM MSR ...

Never too many MMs

Doesn't that crash the server so GMs say don't do it?

[JasperStone]

12 minutes ago, Octogoat said:

Doesn't that crash the server so GMs say don't do it?

We did the instanced version.

As far as I know, the GMs were aware of it.

No crash.

[Octogoat]

Just now, JasperStone said:

We did the instanced version.

As far as I know, the GMs were aware of it.

No crash.

Now I want to do an all crab msr

[Yomo Kimyata]

7 hours ago, biostem said:

The problem isn't that there are too many masterminds, it's that it is too easy, (possibly even the default mode of play for most MMs), that they don't take proper care to *not* block chokepoints or otherwise block the view, with their pets...

What was interesting was that Clamor single-handedly caused near total team wipes.  That’s when I noticed she was standing by herself and fifty feet away there were twenty plus pets attacking a minion.  And that’s when I suggested that maybe target the AV?

[JasperStone]

3 minutes ago, Octogoat said:

Now I want to do an all crab msr

Do it!

Just make sure it is the instanced version