How would you 'fix' Rage & Super Strength?

[Troo]

Looking for a few good ideas to roll into a suggestion.

 

Me, I love some of the set's powers but others not so much.

 

We've had some discussions about Rage previously:

 

[Octogoat]

Currently fine with rage but I understand some people have frustration with crashes.

[MTeague]

I don't think Rage requires a fix. I do think Rage works better on characters that have a solid layer of resistence underneath the defense. But the crash has been a thing for forever, and people can plan around that by popping a few Luck or Sturdy inspirations when it crashes. Or, god forbid, they can learn a feel for when it's probably about to fade, and just NOT PULL the next group of mobs.  

[Snarky]

I stopped playing Super Strength in game.  And i lift weights, so I have a lot of cool super strength concepts. Oh well.  Not all of my concepts go into manic depression every two minutes 

 

I would leave Rage as it is.  THEN add a second version of the power that is non stackable non crash. A toggle.  Like they did with the Dark Armor heal.
 

There might be some other details to smooth.  But this is a thought experiment. I mean, who could have believed they would make Black Hole worse?  Yet there it is.  Not useful for the edge cases it was once good for, not usable on teams.  (Die to random intangibles that are hard to describe on Discord, impossible in a pug)

[Erratic1]

I would crib from Combat Teleport's multiple activations bit and from Adaptive Recharge--use it once and you get a moderate buff, use it twice within a certain period and get a full duration bigger buff which comes with a crash and increased recharge.

[Troo]

1 hour ago, Erratic1 said:

I would crib from Combat Teleport's multiple activations bit and from Adaptive Recharge--use it once and you get a moderate buff, use it twice within a certain period and get a full duration bigger buff which comes with a crash and increased recharge.

 

interesting..

 

Energy Transfer has a player damage component.

Maybe the consecutive uses could have a bigger End cost, slightly less +Dam, and increase recharge. Use it too much and risk flooring your Endurance.

[Troo]

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

And i lift weights, so I have a lot of cool super strength concepts.

😞 

I guess we'll never get Lobo Snarky or Snark-inator

Spoiler

[Biff Pow]

Get rid of the -damage and -defense and increase the endurance crash.

 

Increase the damage of the first three attacks. They should not do less damage than Fighting Pool powers.

[Yomo Kimyata]

Replace Rage with Build Up and then you can port it to scrappers and stalkers.

[Troo]

18 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Replace Rage with Build Up and then you can port it to scrappers and stalkers.

 

So simple and almost elegant.

[ParagonKid]

I have 4 points of contention about the set.

 

1. Super Strength is barely a powerset. Rage, KO Blow and Footstomp is "it" for the set. Three powers that are actually worth talking about. Its boring, lacks thematics and is very basic.

 

2. Does Rage actually warrant a crash in 2025? I haven't see recent numbers, but for single target and area damage, it seems pretty middle of the road these days. I don't see the justification for the set carrying any drawbacks as long as other powersets that don't punish you can outperform it in any way.

 

3. I don't even understand at this point why Scrappers even want it. Other sets are better. As I said, MOST of it is a boring set with unremarkable and even just plain bad powers. You think you're going to crit on Handclap?

 

4. I don't...trust that anyone tinkering with the set is going to do anything other than nerf it. I approach it with the view that it's a mediocre set that will get ruined based on myths of what it once was supposed to be, isn't now, and truly never actually was.

Edited July 7 by ParagonKid

[FupDup]

I'm not a fan of the anti-synergy that the def crash has with def armor sets, nor do I like how the damage crash forces proc bombing to do anything at all during that time, but the whole set is balanced around it and a lot of people are attached to it as it is now. I think it would be safer to just work on other punch-based melee sets, like for example giving Street Justice some actual functional AOE, so that people could pick an alternate punchy-themed set while leaving the classic Super Strength as a legacy feature.

 

Any attempt to change Rage on Brutes or Tanks would likely get Beanbagged (Scrapper/Stalker version would 100% never have Rage as it is now). 

Edited July 7 by FupDup

[Hopeling]

1 hour ago, ParagonKid said:

1. Super Strength is barely a powerset. Rage, KO Blow and Footstomp is "it" for the set. Three powers that are actually worth talking about. Its boring, lacks thematics and is very basic.

I agree with basically everything you said, and I think this one is the biggest fundamental problem with trying to fix or proliferate SS. It's a kind of terrible powerset by itself, propped up entirely by the insane buff power that is Rage, particularly its ability to boost secondary/pool/epic attacks. You can't nerf SS because then it's truly terrible, but you can't buff it or the Rage interaction takes over the world.

 

I think that, if you radically reworked the set and made other parts of it awesome, that might be enough for the playerbase to not riot too hard against reworking Rage as well and you could end up with something like a decent set. Maybe something like this:

• Jab, Punch, and Haymaker go from 2/4/8s recharge to 4/8/10s respectively, with damage increased to match.
• Hand Clap now does damage. The regular damage formula would put it slightly higher than Foot Stomp, but if that's too crazy, on par with Dark Obliteration would still be worth taking and using.
• Hurl's recharge increased to 12s (maybe higher), damage increased to match, with reduced damage in an aoe, similar to Thunder Strike.

Hey look! It can now run a decent ST chain without pools, it has multiple aoe attacks, and two of the most thematic powers are good instead of automatic skips. Now you gut Rage in one way or another, and that's OK because the set doesn't lean so hard on it. Maybe you make it, say, a 30s buff on a 120s cooldown like Soul Drain, and at that point it probably doesn't need a crash at all.

[Lusiphur Malache]

As an exercise, I tried to make a rage less tank paired it with shield. I failed gigantically. Then I put everything into mitigating the crash. Maybe I'm just lucky and finish missions before, but I've yet to die because of a crash.

[Troo]

1 hour ago, Lusiphur Malache said:

I've yet to die because of a crash.

 

excellent point

[TheMoneyMaker]

I'd fix it by porting it to scrappers and stalkers

[kanga]

7 hours ago, Biff Pow said:

Get rid of the -damage and -defense and increase the endurance crash.

 

Increase the damage of the first three attacks. They should not do less damage than Fighting Pool powers.

The -damage and -defense stopped me from using the set completely as well. rerolled both characters i had and changed one to em and one to sj. ss just hold zero appeal in its current state

[Vanden]

I would remove the 95% chance to hit cap and allow chance to hit to reach 100%.

[Sakura Tenshi]

Eeeeeehhhh. I’m not much a theory crafter, but I guess if I were told to go nuts, I’d make it so while rage is active, Knockout Blow and maybe Haymaker became melee targeted AoEs to help with Super Strength’s lackluster AoE. But I really don’t think it actually NEEDS it.

[Snarky]

5 hours ago, Lusiphur Malache said:

As an exercise, I tried to make a rage less tank paired it with shield. I failed gigantically. Then I put everything into mitigating the crash. Maybe I'm just lucky and finish missions before, but I've yet to die because of a crash.

99% time you do not die to the crash.  you stop having fun.  every two minutes. school crossing guard comes out, train track arms come down, someone pours ice water on you.

 

then you are fine again.  go ahead, have fun.  you have two minutes.

[ParagonKid]

The crash actually gives the powerset some identity and without it, Super Strength would be even more bland.

 

That's pretty sad that the worst part of the powerset is the only thing that makes it 'interesting'.

 

It's an old powerset; a bad powerset, held up by the power of myth behind it. Iconic by name only. People like the 'idea' of the set more than the powers themselves, which I guess explains why Scrappers/Stalkers still want it.

Edited July 7 by ParagonKid

[arcane]

The people that think they can seriously propose one full stack of perma Rage with no crash are funny.

[ParagonKid]

52 minutes ago, arcane said:

The people that think they can seriously propose one full stack of perma Rage with no crash are funny.

 

I am completely unimpressed with what 80/70% damage does to the attacks in the powerset in question.

Or stacked, for that matter. The practical value of this for anything other than farming for resources in a game with a handful of people even playing it is vanishing.

Have it cap my damage, what would it matter? Am I going to Hurl+Jab down Kronos solo? And if I did, so what?

 

If the choice is between removing the Rage crash and SS becoming incontestably the best melee attack set, or having a crash punishment on a mediocre Issue Zero powerset, I'll pick the former and not lose a wink of sleep.

Edited July 7 by ParagonKid

[Uun]

I've been playing this game for 20+ years and I've never made a character with Super Strength. It simply doesn't interest me. Change Rage any way you like and it still won't interest me.

[arcane]

2 hours ago, ParagonKid said:

If the choice is between removing the Rage crash and SS becoming incontestably the best melee attack set, or having a crash punishment on a mediocre Issue Zero powerset, I'll pick the former and not lose a wink of sleep.

Okay but it’s not going to happen and SS isn’t mediocre.