Retconning: What and why? Your choices

[Scarlet Shocker]

Retconning (for the uninitiated; retrospectively changing content to fit with a modernized game) is pretty contentious issue and can get a lot of folks in a bit of a tizzy but I notice in games it can happen quite a bit, and has indeed happened more than once in this game. 

 

Sometimes it's awful clunky and other times it makes complete sense. 

 

I understand and agree that there are solid arguments on both sides for maintaining the status quo as is, but also for changing it when circumstances fit. A lot will depend on player preference. 

 

But, let's assume for this thought experiment we'd got the green light to go ahead and change stuff in game to make it fit better with the overall arcs, lore and game feel. If you were given that opportunity, what would you change, why would you change it and what changes would you implement? 

[Vanden]

I would actually retcon the 40+ Praetorian arcs from issue 1, instead of trying to keep them canon. The replacement arcs they made where they're supposed to somehow be sequels to the original arcs but also play virtually identically are just so dumb, imo. It would've been better to just make a clean break from the original arcs and write new ones that actually fit into the depiction of Praetoria in Going Rogue. And I hate how even if you play the issue 1 arcs in Ouro, all the Praetorian AVs still have their updated costumes and bios.

 

Also I'd drop that "Titan Named Joe" Malta arc, it's just totally at odds with the rest of the depictions of the Malta group in-game, tonally, mechanically, you name it.

Edited Thursday at 04:06 AM by Vanden

[BasiliskXVIII]

Vivacious Verandi's arc would be ended with a big battle against Hardcase, where you put that poser into the ground and then it's use the context dependent zone displays to make it so that after the arc is done, the Golden Giza is half wrecked and the area is packed to the gills with high level Arachnos putting the area back in order.

[The Trouble]

It would have been nice if Statesman had been taken out by someone besides Skippy MacGuffinthief.

Blueside reaction: "Who?!?"

Redside reaction: "That Neo cosplayer with the hair fetish?"

 

My retcon would be that Darrin was actually manipulated by some other, better, shadowy mastermind - and there is some remnant of the Well and Rularuu power that has combined and lays dormant within him.  Whoever was behind this wanted Darrin to die for this novel power to be unleashed, so his capture has only postponed the unknown mastermind's plan...

 

I've been out of the loop on the game's lore for awhile, so please forgive any misconceptions or poor memory.  Also, apologies for pulling this poor horse out of his grave to wail on him a bit more.

[biostem]

Maybe give Requiem actual Nictus powers, or better explain why he's so different from the rest...

[Scarlet Shocker]

A couple of the things I hate most in this game:

 

Well of the Furies: it's awful and makes my skin crawl. It's this amorphous parasitic monster that we welcome into our hearts and gives us power. It borrows (very badly)  from classical mythos and turns us into little more than a viral load. There were so many ways we could have increased our power, in game with the existing lore. I hate the fact that we are effectively gifted power (and it could potentially therefore be removed) because we're on some celestial watch-list.  So many alternatives could have worked - things that existed in lore too. An example (not definitive) could be the Shivan meteors. Obviously all the power bods would be looking at that and maybe could have discovered something in them that boosted the powers of PCs and signature characters. It could have fitted in with all origin types without any trouble and would make an interesting story even more interesting. (That's just one example but I'm sure you can think of others)

 

TPN Incarnate Trial: This is without doubt the absolute worst dogshit in the game. At a player level, it's cheap and nasty, repetitive and uninspiring. But when a normal human civilian can throw a rock at a a metahuman hero (who's saved the world many times over the course of a 50+ level career) and literally defeat him that's just the worst writing in the game. It's truly cringeworthy and I hate playing the TPN as a result. I remember on live I wrote a forum post that got a huge amount of feedback and even then few seemed to disagree with me and there did seem to be some tacit admission by the Paragon CC staff that there was a serious issue there.) Maelstrom, a very interesting character was also criminally under-used throughout the entire Incarnate story. 

 

(I actually like a lot of the Incarnate trial content but the raison d'etre of the whole thing is built on a foundation of marshmallow and some of the story telling is very sub-par.) 

 

The Death of Raymond Keyes: Keyes, overall was well written and as the antithesis of Positron something of an antihero. He struck me as being one of the more interesting Praetorian signatures and his death was poignant and almost noble. Almost. But by the time that he died, it was clear the OG devs were running out of steam with Praetoria and their ideas were becoming a bit stale. They could have written an amazing ITrial where Keyes leads a league of PCs to beard PHamidon in is lair and actually destroys it, thus saving Praetoria, neutering Emperor Cole in the process and allowing everyone to move on to the next phase of incarnates. Keyes might have perished in the attempt, a last throw of the dice for somebody who clearly in his own mind deserved more; "I'll show those bastards, or die trying!" That would have allowed a whole "uneasy truce" thing to happen between Primal and Praetorian earths and perhaps a longer term slightly more political thing rumbling on in the background but not in your face all the time thing. Game of Thrones with superpowers. 

 

The Death of Sister Psyche: We knew that Who Will Die was going to end Statesman. That was never a surprise - as a signature character in game he was not well loved, lacking the wholesome charisma of Superman who he seems to be pretty well a simulacrum of, and much function at a time in game when it was questionable if Tankers were even necessary in most content. Obsolete in powers and emotionally he had to go. There seemed, from what I recall, little remorse or mourning at his passing from the player base but I may not have picked up on that. However the murder of Sister Psyche by her husband of all people because she was going to mindwipe the entire city was just horribly written and unnecessary. I must admit at the time I didn't see that coming and was a bit shocked but then it became clear. The Sis P TF was running out of favour for being too long and Matt Miller wanted his creation Penny Yin to have a higher prominence in game. She is a cool and interesting character but they didn't need to swap out her TF. They could have rewritten Sis P as they have with otehrs and given Penny her own unique TF. The Yin TF isn't bad. In fact I rather like it but it was not necessary to kill Shalice off to make Clamor a very good TF for Penny. Far better to do something like force Synapse to retire (cure him of Crey's evilness?) or kill him entirely and rejig stuff. There were so many options for some very interesting characters (why, for example, wasn't Aurora Borealis involved when she was instrumental in Shalice's "mind riding" the first time?) This was a story written by committee, by numbers rather than love of the game.

 

There's other stuff... but that'll do for now. 

[Luminara]

I'd begin by replacing some of the random one-off missions with what I'd call "seeds of Mot".  They're already organized so a character will only encounter one or two every few levels, so a bit of nudging and poking would line them up to create an over-arching narrative that builds up to that finale.  These should be scattered through all three parts of the game (hero/villain/Praetorian), so everyone has an opportunity to see dots that they can later look back on and connect.  I know Praetoria doesn't have any filler missions, but a tip or a contact in each zone would go a long way, and it would help solidify Praetoria as being part of the larger world.  Scatter hints about Mot throughout the early levels so players aren't constantly buffeted by a narrative that changes direction without warning.

 

Other random one-off missions would be replaced with ties to the Praetorian world.  "Saving" that part of the game for the end made sense before Going Rogue, but now, when players can actually play in Praetoria, it's dysfunctional design.  Fixing it by sprinkling encounters throughout the early game, the occasional cross-over, and maybe even a team-up or two, would help coalesce the entirety of the game.  Hero and villain side both need these so there's less "Well, that came out of nowhere" in the final levels, and the Praetorian experience would be improved by actually experiencing hero/villain content before being shuffled off to one side or the other.

 

Setting the stage is important for storytelling, and it's where Cryptic and Paragon both failed when they added new content.  A lot of the early Paragon City content feels disconnected from the later content, when it should feel like part of a whole.  We have one game, arbitrarily split into disjointed sections by poor mission design and lack of overarching stories, and then, when we're in the final stage, we're just told, "Yeah, it's all connected.  Don't ask questions, just accept it".  A little retconning by replacing trash missions with connecting content would go a very long way toward coalescing the game.

 

Oh, and I'd redesign Janet Kellum's arc with clues indicating that she's a Malta operative who worked with Crey to create the Revenant Hero project, participated in the murders of numerous superheroes, then framed Countess Crey for murder to cover up Malta's involvement and steal the relevant Revenant data.

[Scarlet Shocker]

Countess Crey... who knew? 

 

there's another arc early in the villain chain... you end up following a whole longbow arc because some feeble-minded twerp got jilted and ends up killing his girlfriend and you're pretty well powerless to do anything about that other than let him go or kill him. That's super-sloppy and pretty horrible. I don't mind being a villain and choosing to do horrible things, even if that means killing NPCs, but if you're relegated to a spectator, WTF is the actual point? 

 

 

[Skyhawke]

I'd tackle the Task Forces on blueside. Positron would stay the same. The Synapse TF would be given out by Blue Steel instead as he more skin in the game for that one. The Yin would go back to being for Sister Psyche (who is still alive at that point in the timeline and this could help make her eventual death more impactful) and maybe create something in Faultline for Penelope. Citadel TF would go to Manticore since he also has more to do with the Council or 5th Column than the others. The Manticore TF goes to Synapse so he gets some closure on Crey. Numina's stays with her as does Miss Liberty's. I'd move Back Alley Brawler to be the trainer in Kings Row and just put a regular Freedom Corp trainer on the west side of Atlas. Dunno what to do with Citadel. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Skyhawke

[Darmian]

5 hours ago, The Trouble said:

My retcon would be that Darrin was actually manipulated by some other, better, shadowy mastermind - and there is some remnant of the Well and Rularuu power that has combined and lays dormant within him.  Whoever was behind this wanted Darrin to die for this novel power to be unleashed, so his capture has only postponed the unknown mastermind's plan...

Yeah, my version of this is it was a part of the Praetorian plan to weaken Primal Earth.  Darrin influenced by Malaise?  Which one?  Or if not Malaise then Mother Mayhem?  Both of whom have been to the Shadow Shard by the way.  Take out Statesman before he can take part in the war.  He's alive up until the start of the Underground Trial apparently.  Then gone.  

 

Although an iTrial where Who Will Die?  hadn't happened and States is taken out and the players avenge him?  Might have been better.

[Greycat]

Half-retcon, half-mission generation - Crey. 

 

Look, in Outbreak you had the police standing around while Crey did some "helpful" evaluation of Rikti drones. Then we don't see them, and then boom, bad guys. (OK, there's some mention of it by Synapse, as I recall, but still.) Having Crey as a tech/natural/science, possibly mutant, 1-50 contact chain where they're *giving* you missions at level 1 (and being "genuinely" helpful) to build up the whole "they're all right and do some good, as much as a big company can at least" gloss that you really never get to see and that would lend some "well, maybe she's right" to Countess Crey's arguments when stuff's found out about "those are rogue elements, we're launching an internal investigation." Obviously by the end, yes, you're aware of just how bad they are. But it could have been an interesting journey. 

 

(Yes, I know, something similar for magic would have to be developed. ) 

 

VEATS:

 

Part of what I like with Kheldians is how the world reacts to you, as far as spawning Voids, Quantums, etc. VEATS? They just got a really crap storyline, aside from that you could be just another standard AT. I'd alter the storyline for how Arachnos responds to you - as in early on, sure, mostly keep it the same - someone higher than you wants to make a name for themselves by keeping you in your place - but after that? You get some actively hostile Arachnos in the world at times, and others who'd be willing to fight with / follow you. This starts making you "interesting" and possibly a threat to the Patrons and Recluse. Good bit of rewriting, yes. But it needs it. (And I'd also get rid of the DAMN FORCED RESPEC AT 24 and let you just pick your path at level 1.) 

[Darmian]

13 hours ago, Greycat said:

Part of what I like with Kheldians is how the world reacts to you, as far as spawning Voids, Quantums, etc. VEATS? They just got a really crap storyline, aside from that you could be just another standard AT. I'd alter the storyline for how Arachnos responds to you - as in early on, sure, mostly keep it the same - someone higher than you wants to make a name for themselves by keeping you in your place - but after that? You get some actively hostile Arachnos in the world at times, and others who'd be willing to fight with / follow you. This starts making you "interesting" and possibly a threat to the Patrons and Recluse. Good bit of rewriting, yes. But it needs it. (And I'd also get rid of the DAMN FORCED RESPEC AT 24 and let you just pick your path at level 1.) 

The entirety of the Warburg "plot" is RIGHT THERE for VEATs to be involved in, whether on Blitz's side or Recluse's, or neither.  Ok, it might need Warburg not being a PVP zone any more, but not gonna lie, it'd be better than it is now.

 

 

[Vic Raiden]

Hoo boy, here I go:

• Rikti should NOT have been human all along, regardless of Dr. Sheridan's missions. That just kinda kills their alien-ness.
• I don't know what to do with the Council/5th Column split: whether to get rid of the replacement or of the 5th's subsequent comeback, either way having two nearly identical enemy groups is a bit redundant.
• Related to the above, get rid of Reichsman or at least rewrite him into his own person instead of a second Alternate-Universe Evil Statesman.
• Considering Arachnos' spider/web motifs, I feel like they're a better fit for the "super-high-level force of evil which manipulated all the lesser crime in Paragon City" niche than Nemesis, who doesn't even have any particularly unique henchmen as he currently stands.
• Rewrite the "revive Red Widow" Valentine's Day arc because it still makes very little sense.
• Cut the revamped Dark Astoria off from the greater Praetorian War storyline, because it frustrates me to no end how a deal as big as a literal demon god of death threatening to destroy the world is ultimately just a by-the-way to an interdimensional invasion.
• Bring Sister Psyche back, she didn't deserve to die.
• Get rid of all the greater Incarnate lore and especially of the buildup to the Battalion/Coming Storm. The Well in particular should rather remain as a non-sentient manifestation of humanity's collective potential instead of becoming a person with its own goals and the ability to hijack Signature Incarnates to speak through them.
• Do something about Statesman, because the records are kinda very messy ever since it was decided he has always been dead.

That's all I can think of for now.

Edited 3 hours ago by Vic Raiden
Spelling/grammar fixes

[MTeague]

I'll state up front, my wish list would require not just a green light to retcon, but a fully staffed gaming studio and a few hundred million dollars. So, I am completely aware, This Will Never Happen. Not Ever.

• I would downgrade Lord Recluse and Arachnos from "Big Bad" status, to just one of many criminal organizations in the Rogue Isles. No more or less threatening than the Carnival of Shadows, or Crey, or the Family. 
• I would rearrange the Rogue Isles, so instead of spending your entire 1-50 journey bending the knee to Arachnos, you are presented with a list of criminal factions on the isles, and you the player get to make choices along the way to join/rule one of the factions, and through your actions, help that faction rise to power.  Or, if your character can't be bothered with world domination and just wants money and the good life at the St Martial casinos, you can choose to play all sides against each other, profiting all the way.
  • This would require heavy use of "instancing", similar to how Atlas Park changes as you to the Matthew Habashy and related contacts arcs.
  • So yes, a few different hundred simultaneous outcomes.
• I would rearrange various City of Heroes maps, so each map had a "Bad" part of town with a few villain contacts and trainers, and have heroes and villains in the same zones on a regular basis. No PvP unless players choose to flag themselves for it. But while the heroes get recognition and cheers on the shiny part of town, the villains make inroads on the gritty parts of town. 

Again.  Never gonna happen. That requires a truly new game. But that'd be the biggest thing I would change.

Edited 2 hours ago by MTeague