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One thing I'd really like to work on, if possible, is to create a group repository of information on Sentinels as a whole, explaining what makes a strong pairing from each primary to each secondary and all of the pool powers, as well as what distinguishes Sentinels from Scrappers and Blasters. I understand that this is a big undertaking, but I think it could be extremely helpful to new players. 

 

I have some thoughts on these subjects, but the fact of the matter is, I didn't play CoX live at a very high level of proficiency and there are limits to how much I've experienced in Sentinel as-is.

 

I will say that i would like to avoid contributions from people who are of the position that there is no such thing as a weak choice of powerset in CoX, or of the position that any powerset is so bad it should not be taken by anyone with an interest in m making the most of their characters. I believe it is possible and responsible to speak in general terms about average player performance and also support a diversity of interests. There is no wrong way to play, but I want players to be reasonably well-informed going into their choices -- at least, if they want to be. Some enjoy the discovery!

 

I think the best way to create such a project would be for people to submit "sets" of opinions, where they analyze multiple different powersets in compare and contrast, so that we can get a feel for each reviewer's independently, then have a "czar" for that powerset synthesize all the submissions into something that succinctly reflects the consensus and any important divergences thereof.

 

However, that assumes a large interest in this project. I don't know if anyone else would be interested in contribution. Also, accepting general feedback at this stage.

 

Post inspired in part by @oldskool and their excellent comments in various threads. 


Set Sign-Up Sheet

List of posters reviewing what powersets.

Set Name

Reviewer 1

Reviewer 2

Reviewer 3

Reviewer 4

Primaries

 

 

 

 

Archery

@drbuzzard

@oldskool

 

 

Assault Rifle

@oldskool

@Sunsette

 

 

Beam Rifle

@Sunsette [X]

 

 

 

Dark Blast

@drbuzzard

@oldskool

 

 

Dual Pistols

@oldskool [X]

 

 

 

Energy Blast

@Sunsette [X]

 

 

 

Electric Blast        

Fire Blast

@drbuzzard

 

 

 

Ice Blast

 

 

 

 

Psychic Blast

@drbuzzard

@oldskool

 

 

Radiation Blast

 

 

 

 

Sonic Attack

 

 

 

 

Water Blast

@drbuzzard

 

 

 

Secondaries

 

 

 

 

Bio Armor

@drbuzzard

 

 

 

Dark Armor

@oldskool

 

 

 

Electric Armor

@Hopeling[X

 

 

 

Energy Aura

@Sunsette [X]

 

 

 

Fiery Aura

@drbuzzard

 

 

 

Ice Armor

 

 

 

 

Invulnerability

@Sunsette [X]

 

 

 

Ninjitsu

@drbuzzard

@oldskool [X]

 

 

Radiation Armor

@Destlin

 

 

 

Regeneration

 

 

 

 

Super Reflexes

@Sunsette [X]

@drbuzzard

 

 

Willpower

@drbuzzard

@oldskool [X]

 

 

Epic Pools

 

 

 

 

Dark Mastery

 

 

 

 

Electricity Mastery

@Sunsette

 

 

 

Fire Mastery

@Sunsette

 

 

 

Ice Mastery

@Sunsette

 

 

 

Ninja Tool Mastery

 

 

 

 

Psionic Mastery

@Sunsette

 

 

 

Leviathan Mastery

 

 

 

 

Mace Mastery

 

 

 

 

Mu Mastery

 

 

 

 

Soul Mastery

 

 

 

 

Utility Pools

 

 

 

 

Concealment

@Sunsette

 

 

 

Fighting

@Sunsette

 

 

 

Flight

@Sunsette

 

 

 

Leadership

@Sunsette

 

 

 

Leaping

@Sunsette

 

 

 

Medicine

@Sunsette

 

 

 

Presence

@Sunsette

 

 

 

Sorcery

@Sunsette

 

 

 

Speed

@Sunsette

 

 

 

Teleportation

@Sunsette

 

 

 

 

 

We can have more reviewers than four, but I chose not to assume everyone in the world ever would want to participate in this. I'll increase the number of slots if necessary. I intend to do the synthesizing of reviews into a coherent whole and will also be doing primary reviews on a number of sets; please feel free to keep me honest and call me on my shit if you think I've done a poor job somewhere. I'm initially going to be conservative on picking sets and stick to ones I feel I have a very, very strong grasp on; I'll branch out to ones I feel I have an OK grasp on if we have a lot of holes.

 

If you're interested in submitting a review, this is the current format. Submissions are not yet open, but will be soon barring major disagreements.


Set Review Format (Tentative)

  • Powerset Name
  • Basic Qualities:0
    • If damage primary: High/Med/Low Single-Target Damage1, High/Med/Low AoE Damage(# Cones/# Spheres/# PBAoEs)3, High/Med/Low Control4
    • If survival secondary: High/Med/Low HP/Healing5, High/Med/Low Defense6, High/Med/Low Resistance7, High/Med/Low "Clicky-ness"8
    • If pool: The main purpose of this pool.
  • Special Qualities:
    • For primaries, list secondary effects here: knockback, knockdown, stun, -regen, -res, -def, etc. Do not include the benefits of Passive or Active Opportunity.
    • For secondaries, list things that aren't defense, resistance, healing, absorbs, or max HP here. So +recharge, defense debuff resistance, any notable mez protection the set lacks or is weak in, etc.
    • If pool: Can skip
  • Other: Anything else that you think should be noted about this powerset. Significant changes in this powerset from their implementation on other archetypes should go here.
  • Beginner's Notes: Any powers or strategies that are especially beneficial to low level or new players to this set. This is a good place to put down slotting ideas for before level 50 (keep it to under 10 million inf. costs please) as well as early level rotations.
  • Skippables/Must-Haves: For primaries or secondaries, list the powers that typically are considered optional or bad. For pools, list powers that are the strongest in the set. Whenever possible, please explain your reasoning.
  • Advanced Slotting: L50 builds. (sky's the limit for budget). Whenever possible, please explain your reasoning. This will probably be a pretty long section that needs subdivisions, I'll work on this some more.
  • Base Rotation: The standard attack rotation leveling up or at early 50s, for people to refine. Note any cooldown benchmarks that may be necessary for a specific rotation if it requires over 70% or so enhancement or global recharge. 
  • Complementary Choices: Suggest any primary, secondary, or pool (save ones that are mutually exclusive with this one) that synergizes with this one, and explain why. Ex: Energy Blast synergizes well with pools that contain an AoE immobilize with knockback protection and a strong melee attack to make the most of position with Nova; Dark Blast synergizes well with Dark Mastery to completely floor the opponents' accuracy. Whenever possible, please explain your reasoning.
  • Incarnates: Would skip this for pool powers generally speaking, but incarnate powers that pair notably well with this powerset. Whenever possible, please explain your reasoning.

0 All measures assuming fully geared and incarnated at 50; this is just so we have an empirical baseline.

1 High: ST damage of approximately ≥230+ DPS. // Medium: ST damage of approximately 190 DPS. // Low: ST damage of approximately ≤160 DPS. If damage type is mostly Smashing or Lethal, consider it one tier lower.

High: Has 3+ AoEs. // Medium: Has 2 AoEs. // Low: Has 1 AoE. If damage type is mostly Smashing or Lethal, consider it as having one fewer AoE.

3 The breakdown of the number and type of each AoE type.

4 High: Reliably reduces incoming damage from the average pack of enemies by 50% or more. // Medium: Reliably reduces incoming damage from the average pack of enemies by about a third or a quarter. // Low: Controls can be beneficial sometimes but not to be relied upon.

High: Unaided, can heal or absorb a third of base Max HP (400) every 10 seconds or less. // Medium:  Unaided, can heal or absorb a third of base Max HP (400) every 20 seconds or so. // Low: Unaided, can heal or absorb a third of base Max HP (400) every 40 seconds or more. Does not include the benefits of Defensive Opportunity.

6 Use values derived from Reistorm's chart located here. High: Gets S/L/E or all Positional to ≥32.5%. // Medium: Gets some of S/L/E or Positional to ≥32.5%, or gets all of S/L/E to 20%+. // Low: Any other result.

7 Use values derived from Reistorm's chart located here. High: Gets S/L to ≥45% or S/L/E to ≥30%. // Medium: Gets S/L or E o to ≥45%, or gets all to 20+%. // Low: Any other result.

High: Has 2+ abilities with an enhanced cooldown of a minute or less used frequently. // Medium: Has an ability virtually used on 'autocast' or an ability with an enhanced cooldown of a minute or less that otherwise needs to be frequently used for a non-healing purpose. // Low: Active abilities with enhanced cooldowns of a minute or less are rarely used for any purpose but an emergency heal.


Outline (Tentative)

  1. Why Play a Sentinel?
  2. Seize the Opportunity: Sentinel Basics
  3. The Never-Ending Battle: Attack and Defense Mechanics
  4. Zoom and Enhance: Enhancement Mechanics
  5. Four-Color Fantasy: Leveling Red, Blue, Gold, and Black
  6. Primary Colors: Blast Powerset Reviews
  7. Secondary Strategies: Defensive Powerset Reviews
  8. Fly Like an Eagle: Utility Pool Reviews
  9. EPIC!: Epic Pool Reviews
  10. The Alpha and the Omega: Incarnate Mechanics
  11. A Few Provisos: Badges, Macros, and other Miscellany

At the moment these are all things I intend to write myself, but I will gladly take volunteers for any sections.

Edited by Sunsette
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Sentinel Guide Collaborative Project | New KB IO Suggestions

I RP Super Cutes1 on Everlasting2. Also I footnote sometimes3.

1 That is to say, characters that are both superheroes and, in my estimation, fairly cute.
2 The unofficial roleplaying server.

Approximately 2 to 5% of all of my posts, not counting those where all footnotes are the result of this signature.

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First off, I am humbled by the call out.  Thank you!  

Second, this sounds like an awesome, but big, undertaking!  I'll help if I can.  I've been considering writing up something of a guide or so at some point myself. 

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3 minutes ago, oldskool said:

First off, I am humbled by the call out.  Thank you!  

Second, this sounds like an awesome, but big, undertaking!  I'll help if I can.  I've been considering writing up something of a guide or so at some point myself. 

Great! Glad to hear it. 🙂What would you feel most comfortable giving analyses for?


Sentinel Guide Collaborative Project | New KB IO Suggestions

I RP Super Cutes1 on Everlasting2. Also I footnote sometimes3.

1 That is to say, characters that are both superheroes and, in my estimation, fairly cute.
2 The unofficial roleplaying server.

Approximately 2 to 5% of all of my posts, not counting those where all footnotes are the result of this signature.

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That's a good question.  I'm pretty open.  I'm pretty open to even trying something new and adding some feedback too.  

I happen to gravitate towards underdog sets on the Sentinel anyway as I have 0 opinions on Fire.  

Dual Pistols has fun opportunity for analysis compared to all the other AT's.  I've also made a Dual Pistols Corruptor which in many ways drove me to experiment more on the Sentinel.  

I also have experience with a few of the secondaries especially since they were ones I played as other AT's on live.  Examples are Willpower (I had 4 characters with it) or Dark Armor (my first lvl 50 in 2004).  Obviously, I have an opinion on Ninjutsu since I play it more than my other Sentinels.  

I can also just toss around ideas to the group too.  I'm flexible. 

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So far I have 3 sentinels at 50, each with different primaries and secondaries. I have 2 more in the 40s, and 1 more lowbie. Only 2 of the 50s are optimized with sets. 40s and the othrt 60 have common IOs. 

 

Primaries covered (high level):

fire

psi

dark

archery

water

 

secondaries covered

fire

willpower

super reflexes

ninjitsu

bio armor

 

Out of this selection, it is hard to rank primaries as they have different strengths. The worst of the bunch would have to be archery simply because lethal damage is so very resisted, and rain of arrows is nerfed on sentinels compared to other places the power is present (longer recharge). The psi and water builds are both well optimized with perma hasten, and are very effective for what  they are good at. Psi is great at single target damage, with some so-so AOEs (the nuke is fine, but the two others are only meh). Water is an amazing AOE set, with wide cones, bursts, a ranged nuke and what is effectively a rain power. It also provides a self heal. Since it does a good mix of damage types, it's a good set to have late game. Psi is good when it is good, great at times (vs. MoG or Unstoppable) or a bit lacking (robots in particular), but I've seen no other set which has single target damage even close to as high. Fire is also a good AOE set (always has been), but I'd give the edge to water since the fire cone is more narrow, and the nuke is PBAOE.  The most annoying part of fire is that one of its heavy hitting single target attacks (blazing bolt) goes beyond simply having knockback (which you can mitigate) to include repel with the knockback, so they move even with a knockback to knockdown IO in place. Dark is a good set with a usually not resisted damage type (negative energy). It has a self heal, and a hold. The cone attack does knockback, but an IO can tame that. The nuke is another PBAOE. It's better than psi at AOE work, but not as good as water or fire. It's better than those at single target work, but not as strong as psi. Archery is really hard to judge because lethal is so resisted, you feel almost gimpy from the 30s on as almost everything past then seems to resist lethal (carnies are a notable exception, but nobody really wants to fight them). It has a decent cone, a burst AOE that does knockback, and one attack which does a fair bit of fire damage instead of lethal. With rain of arrows nerfed from a 60 second to a 90 second timer, it (to me at least) feels that the set has nothing of appeal. In my previous uses of the set, you would be waiting for rain of arrows as it was really good, but 50% more recharge just guts the set. 
 

So ranking the tested primaries

Water (hydro I guess it is actually) - very strong AOE, decent utility, so so single target

Psi blast - others may dispute this, but it is so strong against hard targets, that I quite like it (and it is fairly rare). Just, it is lousy for mass slaughter like hydro, but What AOEs it does have can suffice. 

Dark Blast- good single target damage, good enough AOE damage, decent utility, and a damage type which is not usually resisted (undead is about it for resistance). 

Fire blast- damage, damage, and more damage. Hydro exceeds it by having as much AOE, but better implementations of them. The repel laden power just ruins the set for me to some extent as it is the highest damage single target attack, but blasting people all around the battlefield is generally not helpful to you or your team. 

Archery - this poor alt sits unplayed for months now once I realized what was done to rain of arrows, coupled with the continued frustration of massive resistance to the primary damage type. I simply would not council this set (AR is pretty much in the same boat). 

 

As for secondaries, sentinels in general have some pretty cool secondaries, and it's clear that the devs put some thought into the adaptation for the AT. Every secondary has an endurance tool of some sort or another so you can afford your shields, as well as a heal (or multiple) or at least an absorb power. Many of the secondaries, however, required you to be amid the enemy to gain that endurance back, so I am rather less enamored with those because I wanted a ranged attacker. 

 

I'll just rank the sets as I see them with a bit of explanation. 

Super Reflexes - this set has IMO the best version of it available in the game present on sentinels. The status protection can be changed from a click into toggles, and you gain absorb in its place. It adds endurance recovery as well in a power. Once you have everything built up, softcapping defense is pretty easy, and SR has excellent defense debuff resistance which a lot of people probably don't consider, but is very often the difference between life and death when facing hard enemies. It also has a recharge bonus power which makes it that much easier to get to perma-hasten, which I consider the holy grail for sentinels since you can get nuke recharge down into the low 20 second range. 

 

Willpower -a nice simple set which only varies from its melee versions in that you get a set regeneration bonus instead of one which scales with enemies around you (the tradeoff is that while it is a decent base regen rate, it doesn't go anywhere near as high as the melee version with a bunch of enemies around you). With the mix of resistance, defense, and regen, it is quite survivable, and it is simply the easiest to run. You just turn on your toggles and go blast away. As long as you don't get delusions of tanking, you will probably survive without having to pay attention to your secondary. 

 

Ninjitsu - again the modifications of this set for sentinels is very nice with addition of an endurance recovery click, and knockback protection in a passive resistance to all power (low number, but a place to put one of the IOs that grants defense from resistance sets). It has some defense debuff resistance, and a good heal as well. Also it includes a stealth power, which with a movement stealth IO should have you effectively invisible to most enemies, and thus able to position to your advantage or to stealth a mission. 

 

Fiery Aura- while it may appear that this is a resistance set, honestly the numbers are low enough that even with fighting pool, you are going to be very squishy. However you have a good heal in healing flames, and cauterize is basically a strong regen power. It also includes a nice damage boost power. It does, have a few powers which are basically duds. Temperature protection gives you a bit of cold resistance (you already hit cap with your two other shields for fire) and some slow protection. I took it to get the slow protection and sometimes you want a power you don't have to waste slots on. Burn, the kind of the set for melee characters, is pretty much a pointless bit of nonsense in a ranged build. You also get a rez (rise of the phoenix) which is nice a rez power go, but while I took it, that's only because I needed to fill a power slot, and fire is soft enough that I die a fair amount. 

 

Bio armor- First of all, I'm no fan of the freaky asymmetrical looks, so I do minimal graphics which helps. This is a mish mash of a set which mixes in resistance, defense, regen, heal, and absorb. It also has a neat mechanic of 'modes' which allow you to go from defensive, to endurance efficient, to offensive. This sounds much better when you read the description than when you look at the numbers (which actually have to be observed in combat attributes, as the info doesn't give them). Defensive mode gives resistance to all damage types, but only a bit, and as the armor does defense for everything but lethal and smashing, you don't get the advantage of it stacking, so it's fairly meh. You do take a 25% offensive damage hit, but that's in enhancement terms, so more like 12.5% ultimately. Endurance mode helps endurance recovery, and nobody minds that, so this may well be the way to go. Offensive mode actually gives you negative resistance, so it lowers your lethal/smashing resistance, and makes you take a bit more damage from everything else as well. In exchange, as it is an enhancement type damage boost, you get 12.5% more damage. I suppose if you're on a team and not taking fire, this is fine, more damage is always nice, but it better be a team which divers aggro away from you. The set has some powerful tools in it (you can get pretty high regen going in the right circumstances), but I found it to be very clicky, and the animations are not all that fast for some of the clicks, so you spend more of your time actively trying to survive rather than killing (definitely a vast difference between this and willpower). 

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Oh, wow, first contribution already! Thanks!

 

I'd like to hold off on any other contributions for the moment because I think we should work out good formats for this, but I'll type up something when I'm back to my computer -- on a phone atm.


Sentinel Guide Collaborative Project | New KB IO Suggestions

I RP Super Cutes1 on Everlasting2. Also I footnote sometimes3.

1 That is to say, characters that are both superheroes and, in my estimation, fairly cute.
2 The unofficial roleplaying server.

Approximately 2 to 5% of all of my posts, not counting those where all footnotes are the result of this signature.

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6 hours ago, drbuzzard said:

In exchange, as it is an enhancement type damage boost, you get 12.5% more damage. I suppose if you're on a team and not taking fire, this is fine, more damage is always nice, but it better be a team which divers aggro away from you. The set has some powerful tools in it (you can get pretty high regen going in the right circumstances), but I found it to be very clicky, and the animations are not all that fast for some of the clicks, so you spend more of your time actively trying to survive rather than killing (definitely a vast difference between this and willpower). 

I'd like to disagree a bit with your input on Offensive Adaptation.  In addition to the +25% damage mod it gives +7.5% to-hit AND it adds an effect to your attacks that causes bonus Toxic damage.  I'm not sure on the #s for Sentinels, but for Scrappers the Toxic dmg is about 10% of the base damage.  -7.5 resistance to all damage is a comparatively higher cost for Sentinels than other ATs given our lower base #s, but barring an odd situation where you're the primary tank for a large group I think Offensive Adaptation is well worth it. 

 

In a bit of a different vein, for whatever reason, BR/Bio felt significantly weaker than my Dark & Water /Bio Sents.  My anecdotal assumption from my time playing him is that BR doesn't look like it gets as big of a boost from the +toxic portion of Offensive Adaptation, probably due to how the set is balanced around the Disintegration mechanic & as such the base damage of the abilities (& thus the toxic damage) is lower, but I have no empirical evidence for this.  It could also simply be due to the fact that the other options have better defensive bonuses in their kits (Water has significant KD, Slows, & a self-heal in its main rotation,  while Dark has a lot of to-hit Debuffs, a short hold, & a bit of Knockdown itself), or it could just be that the AOE doesn't seem very strong without some Disintegration luck... IDK.  But he felt significantly less damaging than the other 2.

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Posted (edited)

Alright, here's my preliminary suggestion for a powerset evaluation format:

 

  • Powerset Name
  • Basic Qualities:
    • If damage primary: High/Med/Low Single-Target Damage, High/Med/Low TAoE Damage, High/Med/Low PBAoE Damage
    • If survival secondary: High/Med/Low HP/Healing, High/Med/Low Defense, High/Med/Low Resistance, High/Med/Low "Clicky-ness". Note any type or positional weaknesses here too, before IOing.
    • If pool: The main purpose of this pool.
  • Special Qualities:
    • For primaries, list secondary effects here: knockback, knockdown, -regen, -res, -def, etc. Do not include the benefits of Passive or Active Opportunity.
    • For secondaries, list things that aren't defense, resistance, healing, absorbs, or max HP here. So +recharge, defense debuff resistance, any notable mez protection the set lacks or is weak in, etc.
    • If pool: Can skip
  • Beginner's Notes: Any powers or strategies that are especially beneficial to low level or new players to this set.
  • Skippables/Must-Haves: For primaries or secondaries, list the powers that typically are considered optional or bad. For pools, list powers that are the strongest in the set. Whenever possible, please explain your reasoning.
  • Slotting: Suggest notable IOs for slotting at mid-levels (try to keep it under ten million) or at 50 (sky's the limit for budget). Whenever possible, please explain your reasoning. 
  • Base Rotation: The standard attack rotation leveling up or at early 50s, for people to refine. Note any cooldown benchmarks that may be necessary for a specific rotation if it requires over 70% or so enhancement or global recharge. 
  • Strong Synergies: Suggest any primary, secondary, or pool (save ones that are mutually exclusive with this one) that synergizes with this one, and explain why. Ex: Energy Blast synergizes well with pools that contain an AoE immobilize with knockback protection and a strong melee attack to make the most of position with Nova; Dark Blast synergizes well with Dark Mastery to completely floor the opponents' accuracy. Whenever possible, please explain your reasoning.
  • Potential Conflicts: Suggest any powersets you think do not pair with this one well generally, or may have specific problems. Ex: "While this primary works well with Bio Armor, they both demand a lot of power choices, which may be difficult to fit into some builds" or "Dual Pistols already drops opponents' defense a lot, so Ninja Tool Mastery may not add a lot of benefit at 50." Whenever possible, please explain your reasoning.
  • Incarnates: Would skip this for pool powers generally speaking, but incarnate powers that pair notably well with this powerset. Whenever possible, please explain your reasoning.
  • Other: Anything else that you think should be noted about this powerset.

 

Taking suggestions to improve this format. We'll need to set benchmarks for the High/Med/Low before people can submit even if they like this format, so don't rush to submit anything.

Edited by Sunsette
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Sentinel Guide Collaborative Project | New KB IO Suggestions

I RP Super Cutes1 on Everlasting2. Also I footnote sometimes3.

1 That is to say, characters that are both superheroes and, in my estimation, fairly cute.
2 The unofficial roleplaying server.

Approximately 2 to 5% of all of my posts, not counting those where all footnotes are the result of this signature.

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This threat sounds great! Keep up the work, i am looking forward to tge informations here!

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3 hours ago, Seroster01 said:

I'd like to disagree a bit with your input on Offensive Adaptation.  In addition to the +25% damage mod it gives +7.5% to-hit AND it adds an effect to your attacks that causes bonus Toxic damage.  I'm not sure on the #s for Sentinels, but for Scrappers the Toxic dmg is about 10% of the base damage.  -7.5 resistance to all damage is a comparatively higher cost for Sentinels than other ATs given our lower base #s, but barring an odd situation where you're the primary tank for a large group I think Offensive Adaptation is well worth it.

7.5 To-Hit is more than Focused Accuracy gives. Given that multiplies against your accuracy bonuses, it's actually substantial.

 

Toxic is one of the least resisted damage types in the game, you can pair it with a blast set that is primarily elemental, and I *think* (I'm not sure, I haven't tested this, I'm just eyeballing) the toxic bonus is outside the normal buff stack. That's actually pretty significant since even if the bonus is small it's not getting dwarfed by random auras, buffs and FS on your team, but instead multiplying off them.

 

-7.5 only applies to resistance, not defense or HP, and is *flat* and not multiplicative. Y'know what this means? If you start piling on resistance IOs, the percent of resistance lost doesn't scale. Shield wall will almost completely make up what you loose in resistance alone.

 

Offensive Adaptation is A+ on Sentinels. It's good on Brutes and Scrappers, sure, but it gives Sentinels an in-set damage boost, something they're sorely lacking in.

 

3 hours ago, Seroster01 said:

In a bit of a different vein, for whatever reason, BR/Bio felt significantly weaker than my Dark & Water /Bio Sents.  My anecdotal assumption from my time playing him is that BR doesn't look like it gets as big of a boost from the +toxic portion of Offensive Adaptation, probably due to how the set is balanced around the Disintegration mechanic & as such the base damage of the abilities (& thus the toxic damage) is lower, but I have no empirical evidence for this.  It could also simply be due to the fact that the other options have better defensive bonuses in their kits (Water has significant KD, Slows, & a self-heal in its main rotation,  while Dark has a lot of to-hit Debuffs, a short hold, & a bit of Knockdown itself), or it could just be that the AOE doesn't seem very strong without some Disintegration luck... IDK.  But he felt significantly less damaging than the other 2.

It's the latter reason. Bio benefits MASSIVELY from any powerset that can interrupt incoming damage in an AoE, due to its reliance on regen and click heals/shields. Willpower and to a lesser extent Regen on your bog standard melee has always been like this too, due to how RTTC works, but Bio seems to benefit even more. The reason why this is important is that some sentinel sets do have ONE thing going for them that melee typically doesn't: An improved ability to reliably hit a large area with something that interrupts incoming damage.

 

...Honestly, I would rank Bio as the #1 Sentinel powerset right now.

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Consider this a preface to any post I make: I give people things straight. None of this "x is subjective" nonsense. If you want good feelies and unicorn dust, and prefer to live in a land of imagination where nothing is bad and nobody can tell you otherwise, look somewhere else. If you want to know what to *actually* expect, however, you're in the right place.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Seroster01 said:

I'd like to disagree a bit with your input on Offensive Adaptation.  In addition to the +25% damage mod it gives +7.5% to-hit AND it adds an effect to your attacks that causes bonus Toxic damage.  I'm not sure on the #s for Sentinels, but for Scrappers the Toxic dmg is about 10% of the base damage.  -7.5 resistance to all damage is a comparatively higher cost for Sentinels than other ATs given our lower base #s, but barring an odd situation where you're the primary tank for a large group I think Offensive Adaptation is well worth it. 

 

I didn't see any mention of toxic damage when I was looking at damage numbers in my combat log, but I was checking on a tanker for bio armor rather than my sentinel and I probably wasn't paying enough attention. I'll fire up my archery/bio and take a look. If it adds that much it is pretty respectable. It could well be I'm just so deterred by the nerf to archery that bio got a bad name from me. 

 

Though I will still argue that SR is the best of the sentinel sets simply because of defensive utility (it does lack an offense boost like some sets admittedly of course). 

Edited by drbuzzard

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Posted (edited)

on a +2 nemesis sniper for toxic as a damage percentage for single target. 

79.8 for 7.28 9.1% toxic

95 for 10.71  11.27%

185.97 +5*11.85 for 21.01 8.56%

216.33 for 24.4 11.27%

 

Ok, from some testing on the archer/bio in offensive mode. 

43 mentalist (-2)

efficient mode

snap shot 72.66L

aimed shot 86.5L

blazing arrow 169.31L +5*16.36F= 251.11

perfect shot 196.96L

offensive mode

snap shot 81.96L +10.68T =92.64

aimed shot 97.51L +15.71T = 113.22

blazing arrow 190.89L+5*5*18.44F +30.81T =313.9

perfect shot 225.05L +35.85T=260.9

 

So 

snap shot 27.5%

aimed shot 30.89%

blazing arrow 25%

perfect shot 32.46%

 

Ah, so with the toxic, the stated 25% increase in offense is actually understated. That is pretty solid if you want to focus on offense on your sentinel. 

 

Mind you some of the variability above could be a function of debuff being present or expiring as I didn't pace the shots off evenly with a long wait. 

Edited by drbuzzard
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Those percentages include the damage boost from Offensive or just the toxic damage? Sunsette mentioned the actual numbers from Offensive being actually 12.5% rather than the proclaimed 25%.

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Posted (edited)

Those are the raw data from combat log yielding percentages. The %s are from a 45 archery/bio sentinel shooting a 43 rikti mentalist with his single target attacks in efficient mode, then offensive mode. 

 

Hence they are the total effect including the enhancement boost from offensive mode as well as the toxic damage. The various damage types are broken down (suffixes of L=lethal, F=fire, T=toxic). 

Edited by drbuzzard

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So it sort of averages as a 30% boost with offensive's raw damage boost *and* the toxic damage tick. Not as much as I thought but still pretty good.

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4 hours ago, drbuzzard said:

on a +2 nemesis sniper for toxic as a damage percentage for single target. 

79.8 for 7.28 9.1% toxic

95 for 10.71  11.27%

185.97 +5*11.85 for 21.01 8.56%

216.33 for 24.4 11.27%

 

Ok, from some testing on the archer/bio in offensive mode. 

43 mentalist (-2)

efficient mode

snap shot 72.66L

aimed shot 86.5L

blazing arrow 169.31L +5*16.36F= 251.11

perfect shot 196.96L

offensive mode

snap shot 81.96L +10.68T =92.64

aimed shot 97.51L +15.71T = 113.22

blazing arrow 190.89L+5*5*18.44F +30.81T =313.9

perfect shot 225.05L +35.85T=260.9

 

So 

snap shot 27.5%

aimed shot 30.89%

blazing arrow 25%

perfect shot 32.46%

 

Ah, so with the toxic, the stated 25% increase in offense is actually understated. That is pretty solid if you want to focus on offense on your sentinel. 

 

Mind you some of the variability above could be a function of debuff being present or expiring as I didn't pace the shots off evenly with a long wait. 

Given your powerset & choice of target, these %s may be a bit skewed.  Near as I can tell the non-minion Rikti (especially the bosses, but it's not clear from your post if this was a boss Mentalist or the Lt. version) have noticeable amounts of S/L resistance, & as was mentioned Toxic is almost never resisted.  Since the bonus toxic damage seems to be a % of the base damage of a power rather than a % of the actual damage done by it, the actual increase for most mobs may be smaller than this testing indicates (because the Mentalist is resisting a significant amount of the lethal damage while having little to no resistance to the toxic).

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Good point. However it is hard to find things at lvl 45 which don't resist lethal. Sure, there are carnies, but they actually take extra damage from lethal, so it would skew it the other way. 

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5 hours ago, Sovera said:

Those percentages include the damage boost from Offensive or just the toxic damage? Sunsette mentioned the actual numbers from Offensive being actually 12.5% rather than the proclaimed 25%.

Just to be  clear, my research was on offensive opportunity, not offensive adaptation -- I have never used nor tested bio as a set. 


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18 minutes ago, drbuzzard said:

Good point. However it is hard to find things at lvl 45 which don't resist lethal. Sure, there are carnies, but they actually take extra damage from lethal, so it would skew it the other way. 

This is certainly true, but I mostly brought it up because the higher-tier Rikti seem even more resistant to S/L than most other mobs at those levels.  Anyway, I was mostly bringing it up as a "keep this in mind" rather than a suggestion for more testing. 

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2 minutes ago, Sunsette said:

Just to be  clear, my research was on offensive opportunity, not offensive adaptation -- I have never used nor tested bio as a set. 

Ah, reading comprehension is not my forte.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Seroster01 said:

This is certainly true, but I mostly brought it up because the higher-tier Rikti seem even more resistant to S/L than most other mobs at those levels.  Anyway, I was mostly bringing it up as a "keep this in mind" rather than a suggestion for more testing. 

If anyone is interested in testing, then I strongly recommend doing so on Rikti Pylons, if you can survive them. They output in Smashing damage, which is one of Bio's weaknesses until you've spent a lot of cash, so that may not be feasible. 

 

That said, I would really like to direct conversation back towards the question of analysis formatting for now... we can split up discussion by powerset later. 

Edited by Sunsette

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I'm going to issue a strong note of caution: the damage potential of Blast sets pre-slotting and post-slotting is wildly different. If you're just looking at the basic attacks in the set without considering their slotting, you're going to get a false impression of the power of the set.

 

Consider Water Blast. Now, if you're just dumping 6-set bonuses into it, it's not a very good ST set.

 

However, let's say you put Apoc +negative, Gladiator's Javelin +toxic and Impeded Swiftness +smashing into it. The proc rate for these effects is based on the normal recharge/activation of the power. But the actual rate at which you use it (as well as the activation time) is altered by the Tidal Power mechanic, meaning that these procs occur about 50% more often than they 'should' - and add a correspondingly higher amount of damage.

 

On the flip side of this would be Fire. Fire doesn't have many slotting options normally, but it loses slotting options as a Sentinel since it no longer has a Sniper attack. Likewise, the change from Hold to Sleep on Freezing -> Chiling Ray in Cold has devastating implications for the rotation because Holds have the only purple-quality proc in a non-damage set.

 

So before you say "X Blast Set has Y performance", you really need to break down what rotation you're analyzing and how that rotation is slotted - because chances are if you're just looking at a rough description of the powers, you're not talking about the optimal damage rotation.

 

In terms of the armor sets, slotting also makes an appearance. While it may seem like Sentinels are a more durable version of Blasters, they're not actually much more durable because Blasters receive defensive toggles in Epic pools while Sentinels do not. Obviously, a single toggle isn't going to replace an entire armor set - but it comes pretty close for practical purposes since your actual defensive concerns are focused. The fact that the Sentinel version of the build has better Toxic resist than the Blaster while both have equal S/L resist just means that in 99.9% of the game, their defenses are the same. The upshot of this is that Sentinels struggle with durability just like Blasters do - and until you've slotted out the build, it's hard to know whether you can get enough resistance on a Ninjitsu Sentinel or enough defense on a Radiation Sentinel.

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Posted (edited)

I agree with much of your analysis, to be sure. 

 

I attempt to defray these concerns by discussing slotting separately for mid level and max level, as well as basic rotations with necessary recharge breakpoints to make. I understand that judicious use of procs from attacks with multiple proc categories is a good way to get one or two attacks significantly up in power.

 

But in most cases I've encountered this, most of your attacks need to ideally remain 5 or 6 slotted with a set in order to get enough recharge to make good use of this on your attacks generally.

 

Re: Survivability. I won't get too much into Sents vs. Blasters generally right now but to say I agree in many respects at 50. Leveling up, though, is a very different matter and depends a lot on the blaster secondary too. I think calling attention to powers and IOs that should be taken early would cover much of this for leveling yes?

 

How would you recommend that the breakdown better encompass this?

Edited by Sunsette

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Should mention, Sentinel's version of RTTC in /WP lacks the Tank/Scrap/Brute's -To-Hit component.

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