Proc Monsters - The New Offender

[plainguy]

Been reading these threads and I might be missing something so I will just ask straight out.

 

1. What setting are these test being done on ? 1/1 or 4/8 

• The reason I ask is I have seen some of the builds mostly in controller section and several are lacking in Defenses. Personally myself I work towards defense cap on any build, even if I am creating a petless mastermind ( have 2 of them ) I am working towards defense cap and then recharge based on build or key power. EG DP would be hail of bullets and working toward a more melee centered build. 
• So are you saying that having all these procs are creating much more DPS then lets say a defense capped build that allow you to solo same content that someone running defense cap would..
  • EG 4/8 setting ? Or even 3/8 setting ?

 

Are you saying that dropping for example 5 points in defense, example from 45 to 40 and placing several procs is better in the long run ?

 

I have several procs in my builds for recharge EG force feedback +recharge in several powers but have yet to see them all proc to dramatically have my global recharge that high that is listed in MID Reborn.  Again as an example 3 FF +Recharge would put my lightening storm down to 16 seconds recharge. Which means I could in theory place 3 storms up. But in all my testing have yet to see more than a solid 2 come up.  Though speed boost of course does the trick. 

 

EG some of the builds I seen are good EG Dark builds because your Defenses are up to 37 assuming fade is perma as you have it listed. Along with some decent resistance numbers.

 

I take this thread as I did when someone explained Defense cap to me and pointed to some threads on the forums many years ago, which are in my signature. 

I became a Defense cap zealot.

 

But I am also big on Petless masterminds. But I will be the first to say they are lacking in DPS.  But in a game where half the base might not get defense cap, he is just as good due to survivability then someone who keeps dying. EG dead people don't produce DPS. 

 

So since I see this thread all over the forums I wanted to know where you stood with all of this. 

Is this the new defense cap ? Or Procs are good take them when you can if your not going for full set bonuses. 

[Hjarki]

5 minutes ago, plainguy said:

Been reading these threads and I might be missing something so I will just ask straight out.

There is definitely a balancing act between optimizing offense and accumulating sufficient defense.

 

A lot of this discussion is just examining the "proc value" of certain abilities in isolation because it's useful to know that information. It's useful to know that information because it allows us to avoid a situation where we 'over-stat' in useless ways and instead design optimal builds based on whatever criteria we like. It allows us to get a better impression of the actual value of accuracy, defense, etc. - in comparison to the offensive trade-offs being made. And, yes, there are many 'proc monster' builds that are legitimately 'monster' builds - with incredible defenses paired with incredible offenses.

 

34 minutes ago, plainguy said:

I have several procs in my builds for recharge EG force feedback +recharge in several powers but have yet to see them all proc to dramatically have my global recharge that high that is listed in MID Reborn.  Again as an example 3 FF +Recharge would put my lightening storm down to 16 seconds recharge. Which means I could in theory place 3 storms up. But in all my testing have yet to see more than a solid 2 come up.  Though speed boost of course does the trick. 

That's an issue with Mid's/Pine's. If you select a power with a Force Feedback proc, it simply adds +100% global recharge since it has no realistic way to calculate the average recharge bonus over time.

 

In practice, the FF procs in Tornado/Lightning Storm are probably going to deliver +50% to +60% average recharge or so. When you consider that you probably selected powers specifically for the ability to trade off one slot for +7.5% recharge via Luck of the Gambler, that's clearly a potent move. It's especially potent when you consider how hard it is to slot for non-LotG recharge (since it normally only comes on 5/6-slot set bonuses).

 

In the current Incarnation of my Storm/Water build, I generally get out no more than 2 Tornado/Lightning Storm. However, when I was running Spiritual, I could get 3 somewhat consistently. That's pretty good for having virtually no purple sets slotted to 5.

[Bopper]

57 minutes ago, plainguy said:

What setting are these test being done on ? 1/1 or 4/8 

From what I could tell, most have been tested against a Rikti Pylon. Personally, I have ran my Time/Dual Pistols defender on +4/x8 solo, against elite bosses (haven't built a good enough single target attack chain for AVs as I focused more on AoE). It was that character that led to my interest in doing Proc testing months ago, as I saw the potential of a Power Boosted Farsight that could afford me to invest in procs as I would have enough defense and accuracy to not need to chase set bonuses. Since defender base damage is garbage, procs provided a boost that could not be achieved by even a damage capped defender. 

58 minutes ago, plainguy said:

 

So since I see this thread all over the forums I wanted to know where you stood with all of this. 

Is this the new defense cap ? Or Procs are good take them when you can if your not going for full set bonuses. 

I think you should aim for both. Maximize survivability and damage. Once you hit softcap, no need to keep investing, so allocate to damage/recharge.

[Sir Myshkin]

1 hour ago, plainguy said:

1. What setting are these test being done on ? 1/1 or 4/8 

• The reason I ask is I have seen some of the builds mostly in controller section and several are lacking in Defenses. Personally myself I work towards defense cap on any build, even if I am creating a petless mastermind ( have 2 of them ) I am working towards defense cap and then recharge based on build or key power. EG DP would be hail of bullets and working toward a more melee centered build. 
• So are you saying that having all these procs are creating much more DPS then lets say a defense capped build that allow you to solo same content that someone running defense cap would..
  • EG 4/8 setting ? Or even 3/8 setting ?

All my builds are under the expectation of being capable of running at +4, but do keep in mind that in some cases where Accuracy is involved, minor fluctuations were traded in the event that having an Alpha slotted essentially reduces the majority of game play to +3 when not looking exclusively at Incarnate content. However, even in the event of running Incarnate content, qualified areas would stack the additional level shifts granted exclusively for that content. Basically, once Incarnates are involved, you'll rarely actually face something at +4 again. But this was entirely focused on Accuracy.

 

If you're referring to Defensive values specifically, I'd need to know what exactly you're referring to as Dark and Time function differently depending on the build circumstances, and you are most definitely not accounting for all aspects of how the build functions to determine a defensive value.

 

In the case that Primal is taken to get access to Power Boost, this power gives a significant bonus to Fade and Farsight, and that effect stays the entirety of the duration on either power. In that situation, any of the given builds (Controller or Defender), were built to achieve a minimum 45% defense (at which point it would've been to all, both typed and positional).

 

In any of the builds where Dark did not take Power Boost, the offset of defensive attribution comes from running Darkest Night. In conjunction with the Intuition Radial Alpha, Darkest Night will apply a significant -ToHit debuff to the primary target, and those within its area of effect. -ToHit can rudimentary be considered the anti-thesis to needing defense. Basically for every 1% of -ToHit, that's equal to 1% of defense you don't need. Certain targets (like AV's), can resist a portion (typically up to half) of that value so you must be mindful of that fact. For the other 99.5% of the game though, Darkest Night is essentially an over-softcap for defense.

 

For Controllers, a typical */Dark build would've been somewhere around 33-37% base Defense with Fade (no Power Boost). Darkest Night would give me -18%, which would equate to 51-55% defense. Or, if resisted, 42-46%. I'm generalizing that window for sake of not going back and reconfirming every single one's exact values, but they should all be above 45% to some degree. In the cases where I did pair Power Boost, and still took Darkest Night, that carries the build into Incarnate content to be capable of handling the iCap of 59% due to boosted enemy ToHit values.

 

As for survivability of any of the builds, I tested against 54 Rikti in the RWZ. I did all the proc testing in the RWZ because of group clusters being more consistent, faster respawn rates, and the ability to get proc-functionality tests done on low-levels with no threat, and then also do survival testing on appropriate spawns. When I tested against the Pylons, this was purely a check on capacity to take down an AV level enemy solo and get a gauge on the DPS level of the build.

 

1 hour ago, plainguy said:

I have several procs in my builds for recharge EG force feedback +recharge in several powers but have yet to see them all proc to dramatically have my global recharge that high that is listed in MID Reborn.  Again as an example 3 FF +Recharge would put my lightening storm down to 16 seconds recharge. Which means I could in theory place 3 storms up. But in all my testing have yet to see more than a solid 2 come up.  Though speed boost of course does the trick. 

The FF+Rech proc only lasts for 5/s once it gets triggered. You need to detoggle any power that gets one of those procs placed in it when using Mid's as it is not a true calculation to the effect of the proc. Those quick bursts shave off seconds across the board, somewhere between 3-5 on average in most cases, maybe a bit more for something larger, or a bit less for powers already reaching their limit.

 

The best places to see this proc pop up on the regular are powers that have no recharge enhancement directly in them and a base recharge (at least) <15/s, Around <30/s and you'll see it pretty consistently. Also take into account that if you slot it into a power that has an AoE/Cone attribute, you need to be in a target zone that will hit at least 10 mobs to be a reliable proc, 5 if the power has a much longer base recharge. That's anecdotal for the most part, not a "it must be" but what broke down as an average expectations when I tested that if I got at least that many in the target zone, I was good.

[Frosticus]

1 hour ago, plainguy said:

So since I see this thread all over the forums I wanted to know where you stood with all of this. 

Is this the new defense cap ? Or Procs are good take them when you can if your not going for full set bonuses. 

I can't speak for everyone, but I don't forego defense bonuses. My proc builds, which are absolutely laden with procs, generally require incarnates to work because the procs come at the expense of acc and endurance enhancements. That way I can still get the necessary def numbers, damage enhancements and recharge (where needed). The issue for me is getting enough global rech bonuses because procs usually mean losing out on a good number of set bonuses. So I strive for perma hasten (or close to it) and call it good enough.

[Coyote]

9 hours ago, plainguy said:

I have several procs in my builds for recharge EG force feedback +recharge in several powers but have yet to see them all proc to dramatically have my global recharge that high that is listed in MID Reborn.  Again as an example 3 FF +Recharge would put my lightening storm down to 16 seconds recharge. Which means I could in theory place 3 storms up. But in all my testing have yet to see more than a solid 2 come up.  Though speed boost of course does the trick. 

 

One FF: +Recharge proc activation per minute will give an 8.33% average boost. If you place them in a power like Tornado that has a 90% chance to activate, it averages 7.5% bonus. But that's per activation, so if you activate Tornado 3x, you get 22.5% average over the minute. Add in 15% from 2x Lightning Storm, and you're at 37.5% average boost for the minute from the 2 procs. Not 100% like it would show in Mid's, but still quite high for 2 slots.

[plainguy]

14 hours ago, Hjarki said:

There is definitely a balancing act between optimizing offense and accumulating sufficient defense.

 

A lot of this discussion is just examining the "proc value" of certain abilities in isolation because it's useful to know that information. It's useful to know that information because it allows us to avoid a situation where we 'over-stat' in useless ways and instead design optimal builds based on whatever criteria we like. It allows us to get a better impression of the actual value of accuracy, defense, etc. - in comparison to the offensive trade-offs being made. And, yes, there are many 'proc monster' builds that are legitimately 'monster' builds - with incredible defenses paired with incredible offenses.

 

That's an issue with Mid's/Pine's. If you select a power with a Force Feedback proc, it simply adds +100% global recharge since it has no realistic way to calculate the average recharge bonus over time.

 

In practice, the FF procs in Tornado/Lightning Storm are probably going to deliver +50% to +60% average recharge or so. When you consider that you probably selected powers specifically for the ability to trade off one slot for +7.5% recharge via Luck of the Gambler, that's clearly a potent move. It's especially potent when you consider how hard it is to slot for non-LotG recharge (since it normally only comes on 5/6-slot set bonuses).

 

In the current Incarnation of my Storm/Water build, I generally get out no more than 2 Tornado/Lightning Storm. However, when I was running Spiritual, I could get 3 somewhat consistently. That's pretty good for having virtually no purple sets slotted to 5.

Thank you for this info.

 

My whole intent was to get 3 lightening storms out on a consistent basis.  

 

Currently I have a steady stream of 2.  The dps they put out is impressive.  

[Scientist]

I see a lot of discussion of dual pistols for proc builds, does beam rifle work reasonably well for that?  I prefer those animations.  

[Bopper]

1 hour ago, Scientist said:

I see a lot of discussion of dual pistols for proc builds, does beam rifle work reasonably well for that?  I prefer those animations.  

You can definitely incorporate Procs with Beam Rifle. I dont know how well it would perform in comparison, but that shouldn't matter if you plan to play BR anyways. In my opinion, some attacks might have too slow of a cast time and you can fit more Procs into Dual Pistols, but it's not all about min/maxing. Enjoy playing the set with the extra proc damage, that's all that matters.

[plainguy]

Let me follow up on this. 

 

Again for the layman. 

 

Are the Proc's overall generating more DPS then a standard build ? 

 

 

 

[Sir Myshkin]

2 hours ago, Scientist said:

I see a lot of discussion of dual pistols for proc builds, does beam rifle work reasonably well for that?  I prefer those animations.  

There are certain blast sets that respond better to maximizing proc capacity than others, like Dual Pistols, Dark Blast, just because they have additional mechanics that allow for more IO sets to pull from. Beam Rifle doesn’t have that same diversity so you can only do what you can.

 

Like what @Bopper said, play what you find fun and just use this knowledge to try and best maximize what you can.

[Sir Myshkin]

4 minutes ago, plainguy said:

Let me follow up on this. 

 

Again for the layman. 

 

Are the Proc's overall generating more DPS then a standard build ? 

 

 

 

Short answer: Yes.

 

Long answer: There is a point where the appreciable boost of damage enhancements are overshadowed by the average value of what a proc will add. This is a little different for different powers/ATs, but typically procs quickly become superior for Defenders and Controllers in many of their abilities after just 60-80%. You can easily achieve this within one or two mixed IOs and/or a combination with an Alpha like Intuition or Musculature (or Nerve if you forgo any accuracy). This path gives you at least four slots for Procs, assuming that many a variety exists. For Tankers I can typically achieve 100-110% slotting in just two slots w/ Musculature Core alpha.

 

There are a lot of different ways to approach this.

 

There are many specific powers and sets where Procs significantly alter their performance, like turning the Defender Epic version of Char and Dominate into 400+ point hitting attacks.

[plainguy]

2 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

Short answer: Yes.

 

Long answer: There is a point where the appreciable boost of damage enhancements are overshadowed by the average value of what a proc will add. This is a little different for different powers/ATs, but typically procs quickly become superior for Defenders and Controllers in many of their abilities after just 60-80%. You can easily achieve this within one or two mixed IOs and/or a combination with an Alpha like Intuition or Musculature (or Nerve if you forgo any accuracy). This path gives you at least four slots for Procs, assuming that many a variety exists. For Tankers I can typically achieve 100-110% slotting in just two slots w/ Musculature Core alpha.

 

There are a lot of different ways to approach this.

 

There are many specific powers and sets where Procs significantly alter their performance, like turning the Defender Epic version of Char and Dominate into 400+ point hitting attacks.

Again thank you.. 

 

I think sometimes showing some screenshots of this would make newer players understand.. 

I get enough of the game mechanics and honestly this can be a bit overwhelming for me. 

 

I think also it is trying to understand where the fail point is. 

Meaning when is it  a waste of time to slot a proc or not slotting enough procs in a power. 

EG putting in a single proc in a power and not realizing you actually hurt yourself damage wise for doing it. 

 

Mids was very good for building Defense cap and resistance numbers because those mechanics are very simple to understand. But Proc's a different ball game and MIDs doesn't help out that much to get you accurate numbers on this.  

 

I wish there was a tool for Procs in powers.. 

 

See how your explaining Incarnates and why one over another. I get that. 

It helps add a bit of clarity.

 

I don't know if there is a rule of thumb here.  But if there are some do's and don'ts I think that would be helpful. EG a cheat sheet of sorts. 

EG going back to the defense analogy, someone one thinking that having 20% defense across the board is better then having 45% in S/L or in Positional Defense. Because they think 20% is almost half when it actually it isn't based on the mob and luck streak rolls, etc.

 

 

[Frosticus]

35 minutes ago, plainguy said:

I wish there was a tool for Procs in powers.. 

Mid's is pretty accurate. Except when you start adding  recharge as mids doesn't distinguish between global and internal rech slotting. 

 

As a defender you are almost always better off from a damage (dps) perspective slotting a damage proc before a damage enhancement. I'd have to check, but this holds true even for nukes other than inferno. 

 

*things can and do shift when you start talking about overall slotting efficiency of a power though as you may  want to enhance other aspects than just raw damage output. 

 

 

 

[Hjarki]

8 hours ago, Scientist said:

I see a lot of discussion of dual pistols for proc builds, does beam rifle work reasonably well for that?  I prefer those animations.  

All of the newer sets tend to have considerable advantages not only in terms of better proc opportunities but also lower recharge ultimates.

 

That being said:

• Disintegrate is both necessary and a fairly weak attack. Taking and slotting a single target attack that you need to open with and you never want to use more often than is necessary to re-apply the debuff is a big cost to the set. Disintegrate also accepts nothing but standard procs.
• Disintegrate spread is not a viable mechanic. It has an incredibly narrow radius and, even under ideal circumstances, doesn't affect enough targets to be worthwhile.
• Second attack much stronger than first. The first's special ability is extra -regen (not terribly necessary) while the second's is extra damage.
• No decent backup AE. The ultimate is one of the best out there - ranged, with a low recharge. However, the secondary AE is either a cone or the aforementioned Disintegrate mechanic.
• No AE knockback. AE knockback with Force Feedback is incredibly potent, and it's a major feature of both Water and Pistols - but not Beam.

 

 

[Errants]

On 9/3/2019 at 7:23 PM, Sir Myshkin said:

Just using quote for the notification

So, tripped over your thread, as my Time/DP is level 30ish, and I've started thinking about something other than common IO's. Imagine my surprise to see the viability of proc'ing!

 

So, anyhow, this is my go at it, offa one of your Time/DP builds. I made it a little less selfish, mainly due to me being in a duo. Additionally, as I want to try kitting it out PRIOR to 50, there's no Purples in the build.

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.3
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Daenam Proc'd: Level 50 Magic Defender
Primary Power Set: Time Manipulation
Secondary Power Set: Dual Pistols
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Concealment
Ancillary Pool: Power Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Time Crawl -- ImpSwf-Dam%(A)
Level 1: Pistols -- VglAss-Acc/Dmg(A), VglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(3), VglAss-Rchg/+Absorb(7), AchHee-ResDeb%(40)
Level 2: Time's Juncture -- DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb(A), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(3), DarWtcDsp-Rchg/EndRdx(7), DarWtcDsp-Slow%(9)
Level 4: Temporal Mending -- Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(A), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(5), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(5), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(9), Pnc-Heal(11), Prv-Absorb%(11)
Level 6: Temporal Selection -- DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(A)
Level 8: Distortion Field -- GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(A), NrnSht-Dam%(50), ImpSwf-Dam%(50)
Level 10: Swap Ammo 
Level 12: Time Stop -- NrnSht-Dam%(A), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(13), Lck-%Hold(13), GldNet-Dam%(15)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(15)
Level 16: Bullet Rain -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A), ImpSwf-Dam%(17), ExpStr-Dam%(17), PstBls-Dam%(36), Ann-ResDeb%(36), JvlVll-Dam%(36)
Level 18: Farsight -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(19), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(19)
Level 20: Suppressive Fire -- Dcm-Build%(A), NrnSht-Dam%(21), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(21), GldNet-Dam%(25), GldJvl-Dam%(33)
Level 22: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(23), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(23), ShlWal-Def(25), Ksm-ToHit+(46)
Level 24: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 26: Slowed Response -- ShlBrk-%Dam(A), AchHee-ResDeb%(27), TchofLadG-%Dam(27)
Level 28: Executioner's Shot -- TchofLadG-%Dam(A), AchHee-ResDeb%(29), FrcFdb-Rechg%(29), GldJvl-Dam%(31), GldJvl-Acc/Dmg(31), GldJvl-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(31)
Level 30: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(33), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(33)
Level 32: Chrono Shift -- EffAdp-EndMod/EndRdx(A), EffAdp-EndMod/Rchg(34), PrfShf-EndMod/Rchg(34), DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(34)
Level 35: Power Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 38: Hail of Bullets -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A), ScrDrv-Dam%(39), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(39), VglAss-Dmg/Rchg(39), VglAss-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), VglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Temp Invulnerability -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(42), StdPrt-ResKB(42), StdPrt-ResDam/EndRdx(42), UnbGrd-ResDam(43), ImpSki-Status(48)
Level 44: Piercing Rounds -- DfnBst-Acc/Dmg(A), DfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), ImpSwf-Dam%(45), PstBls-Dam%(45), Ann-ResDeb%(46), Ann-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46)
Level 47: Stealth -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(48), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(48)
Level 49: Grant Invisibility -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-ResDam%(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- UnbLea-Stlth(A)
Level 1: Vigilance 
Level 2: Rest -- IntRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(37), Mrc-Rcvry+(37)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(37)
Level 10: Chemical Ammunition 
Level 10: Cryo Ammunition 
Level 10: Incendiary Ammunition 
------------

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Thoughts, tweaks, ideas?

[Bopper]

1 hour ago, Eran Rist said:

Thoughts, tweaks, ideas?

The first tweak I would do is 6 slot Temporal Mending with Preventative Medicine. You'll get 8.75% recharge instead of 7.5%, plus it'll be cheaper.

I would not 3 slot Vengeance. I would use those 2 extra slots somewhere else.

I would not use the Kismet +6% ToHit. With PBU+Farsight, you should be good on ToHit. I would take that slot and put it elsewhere.

 

Since you should only be using Power Build Up when Farsight needs to be re-upped (every 120 seconds), I removed the recharge IO and added the Gaussian Proc. It will fire 90% of the time, but honestly it won't be very effective so feel free to change it back. If you had taken Tactics instead of Assault, I would put the Gaussian in Tactics instead, since you team.

 

Since you don't have tough, you could use some more S/L resist. I did a couple of tweaks and added a bit more S/L resist, but it's just a suggestion. You can probably do something else that fits better for you.

 

Data Link to Build tweak

Spoiler

http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/download.php?uc=1501&c=728&a=1456&f=HEX&dc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

 

Edited September 8, 2019 by Bopper

[Sir Myshkin]

2 hours ago, Eran Rist said:

Thoughts, tweaks, ideas?

What Bopper said, but also ... Why Stealth/Grant Invis? When you toggle Stealth on it adds an over-inflated (out of combat) value that isn't true to the in-combat value (about half), so it's over-inflated. If you really want extra stealth, just drop the Stealth IO in Sprint and toggle it. Oh, and that Status Resistance IO you have plugged in, get rid of it. Honestly, 7% status resistance is nothing, protection is more important, use that slot somewhere else.

[Bopper]

16 minutes ago, Sir Myshkin said:

What Bopper said, but also ... Why Stealth/Grant Invis? When you toggle Stealth on it adds an over-inflated (out of combat) value that isn't true to the in-combat value (about half), so it's over-inflated. If you really want extra stealth, just drop the Stealth IO in Sprint and toggle it. Oh, and that Status Resistance IO you have plugged in, get rid of it. Honestly, 7% status resistance is nothing, protection is more important, use that slot somewhere else.

I forgot to check if configuration was set to attacked, mine always is checked so I assume Stealth defense was accurate. If not, I would revisit it to ensure defense is covered. As for its use, personally i use both stealth and sprint for complete invisibility.

 

Grant invisibility pairs well with Power Build Up. Since he duos, I think he was trying to add more defense to his teammate(s). Overall, I'm good with the concealment powers as LotG mules with utility and synergy.

 

I also took the status resistance out and replaced it with +7.5% HP. I should've mentioned that in my post, but it shows in my build.

[Errants]

3 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

What Bopper said, but also ... Why Stealth/Grant Invis? When you toggle Stealth on it adds an over-inflated (out of combat) value that isn't true to the in-combat value (about half), so it's over-inflated. If you really want extra stealth, just drop the Stealth IO in Sprint and toggle it. Oh, and that Status Resistance IO you have plugged in, get rid of it. Honestly, 7% status resistance is nothing, protection is more important, use that slot somewhere else.

Concealment are LotG mules, and with Attacked on in settings, it should reflect the true value (which is how my Reborn is set up). Plus, Stealth + Stealth IO is full Invis to anything without +Per.

Did the recommended slot shuffle off of Vengeance, which cascaded into other slotting changes.

Also, HC changed ImpSkin unique, it's now status resistance and +25% Regen. Realized I forgot Unbreakable's 7.5% HP (Thank you, Bopper), so kept that in. Trying to get 7 slots of enhancements into 6 made me realize I could abuse Venge - out with Steadfast, in with Karma -KB.

Prev's actually does seem a better use, since I'm 6 slotting for the 5/1 anyhow, thanks!

Dropped the +Per Global into PBU, because Bopper's right, it doesn't need the recharge and Gaussian's isn't really going to do anything, is the whole reason WHY proc's > Damage on Defenders in the first place.

I'm thinking keeping Kismet because it's a cheap slot, and even with PBU, the build gets the following ToHit chances: +5 80.6%, +4 89.6%, +3 and lower clamped at 95%. No Kismet means ++5 74.6%, +4 83.6%, +3 92.6%, +2's and lower at 95%.

Revisted Distortion Field as an AoE damage power, after reading Bopper's guide I had missed. Stole slots from Time Stop and Chrono Shift, added S/L bonuses.

 

So, new highlights: 61% S/L, 183.8% global recharge, psuedo-Perma-Hasten, 9 seconds off Perma-Chrono Shift, can almost double stack Farsight, and 95% chance to hit with anything +3 or lower and 0 Defense. Still willing to take critiques/feedback, but this is looking oddly solid... and very different from my normal builds (Scrapper Main).

 

 

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.3
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Daenam Proc'd: Level 50 Magic Defender
Primary Power Set: Time Manipulation
Secondary Power Set: Dual Pistols
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Concealment
Ancillary Pool: Power Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Time Crawl -- ImpSwf-Dam%(A)
Level 1: Pistols -- VglAss-Acc/Dmg(A), VglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(3), VglAss-Rchg/+Absorb(7)
Level 2: Time's Juncture -- DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb(A), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(3), DarWtcDsp-Rchg/EndRdx(7), DarWtcDsp-Slow%(9)
Level 4: Temporal Mending -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(5), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(5), Prv-Heal/Rchg(9), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(11), Prv-Absorb%(11)
Level 6: Temporal Selection -- DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(A)
Level 8: Distortion Field -- GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(A), NrnSht-EndRdx/Hold(13), ImpSwf-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(34), NrnSht-Dam%(50), ImpSwf-Dam%(50)
Level 10: Swap Ammo 
Level 12: Time Stop -- NrnSht-Dam%(A), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(13), GldNet-Dam%(15)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(15)
Level 16: Bullet Rain -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A), ImpSwf-Dam%(17), ExpStr-Dam%(17), PstBls-Dam%(36), Ann-ResDeb%(36), JvlVll-Dam%(36)
Level 18: Farsight -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(19), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(19), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(33), ShlWal-EndRdx/Rchg(33), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 20: Suppressive Fire -- Dcm-Build%(A), NrnSht-Dam%(21), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(21), GldNet-Dam%(25), GldJvl-Dam%(43)
Level 22: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(23), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(23), Rct-ResDam%(25), Rct-Def/EndRdx(43), Ksm-ToHit+(50)
Level 24: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 26: Slowed Response -- ShlBrk-%Dam(A), AchHee-ResDeb%(27), TchofLadG-%Dam(27)
Level 28: Executioner's Shot -- TchofLadG-%Dam(A), AchHee-ResDeb%(29), FrcFdb-Rechg%(29), GldJvl-Dam%(31), GldJvl-Acc/Dmg(31), GldJvl-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(31)
Level 30: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Krm-ResKB(40)
Level 32: Chrono Shift -- EffAdp-EndMod/EndRdx(A), EffAdp-EndMod/Rchg(34), Prv-Heal/Rchg(34), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 35: Power Build Up -- RctRtc-Pcptn(A)
Level 38: Hail of Bullets -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A), ScrDrv-Dam%(39), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(39), VglAss-Dmg/Rchg(39), VglAss-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), VglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Temp Invulnerability -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(42), ImpSki-Status(42), StdPrt-ResDam/EndRdx(42), UnbGrd-Max HP%(43), UnbGrd-ResDam(48)
Level 44: Piercing Rounds -- DfnBst-Acc/Dmg(A), DfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), ImpSwf-Dam%(45), PstBls-Dam%(45), Ann-ResDeb%(46), Ann-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46)
Level 47: Stealth -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(48), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(48)
Level 49: Grant Invisibility -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- UnbLea-Stlth(A)
Level 1: Vigilance 
Level 2: Rest -- IntRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(37), Mrc-Rcvry+(37)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(37)
Level 10: Chemical Ammunition 
Level 10: Cryo Ammunition 
Level 10: Incendiary Ammunition 
------------


 

 

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Edited September 9, 2019 by Eran Rist
Changed build, again.

[Bopper]

1 hour ago, Eran Rist said:

can almost double stack Farsight

You can't stack Farsight, you only replace it. So be careful. If you cast a Power Boosted Farsight, then later cast a regular Farsight, your regular replaces the Power Boosted...thus you debuff yourself basically.

 

As for your ToHit numbers, if you have the +1 level shift for having a T3+ Alpha Incarnate slotted, you probably aren't going to face anything +4 or higher. It's your call though. Personally I would probably spend that slot elsewhere on a proc, but there's nothing wrong with making sure you have extra ToHit just incase you get debuffed.

[Errants]

1 hour ago, Bopper said:

You can't stack Farsight, you only replace it. So be careful. If you cast a Power Boosted Farsight, then later cast a regular Farsight, your regular replaces the Power Boosted...thus you debuff yourself basically.

 

As for your ToHit numbers, if you have the +1 level shift for having a T3+ Alpha Incarnate slotted, you probably aren't going to face anything +4 or higher. It's your call though. Personally I would probably spend that slot elsewhere on a proc, but there's nothing wrong with making sure you have extra ToHit just incase you get debuffed.

Yeah, shoulda edited the post on that one, saw that in your guide. Very much becomes a game of ONLY fire Farsight with PBU, once I get there.

[subbacultchas]

I made my first Defender Proc Monster, to go with some Controller and Corruptor ones.  I ended up going TA/Water, since TA was so well represented here and I think Water has some really good promise with it. It's working out pretty well right now, just having issues trying to find some defense in it. But it definitely does not feel like the TA I used to play on live, and Acid Arrow is an absolute beast of a power, as well as Ice Arrow.

Not sure what I'm doing with Oil Slick just yet, it's a hard power to proc since it needs recharge and damage first.

[Sir Myshkin]

6 hours ago, subbacultchas said:

Not sure what I'm doing with Oil Slick just yet, it's a hard power to proc since it needs recharge and damage first.

It'll tap out at two damage IO's worth of slotting if you're using Musculature or Intuition for an Alpha, or +5 one and still get a decent return. A second would end up being about equivalent to a proc's worth of damage over that DoT time period, so a matter of preference. I'd say, for four slots, a single 50 Rech and Dam IO +5'd, and then a couple of damage procs should do you well. If you find you have another spare slot, you can get away with a Dam/Rech IO in there to help leverage that a bit more fairly. If you're getting close to Perma-Hasten on recharge, Oil Slick will tap out somewhere between 50-60/s. With 163% global, and a +5 Rech, 56/s, with two 50 Rech IO's maxed, it taps out at 50/s.

 

You can do quite a bit with 4 slots, bit more with 5 if you've got it, fully load it with 6 if you're willing.

[KaizenSoze]

Just throwing this out there, Liquefy, in the Sonic Resonance set can take 6 procs. I think there are least 8 different types of procs available for the power.

 

I know that Sonic Resonance is a problematic set, but that is quite a proc monster of a power.

 

Tinkering with a sonic/dark defender.