Farm fresh builds! *Farming focused builds and tips*

[Sanguinesun]

16 hours ago, Dark Current said:

 

Ok, i got a chance to rerun the same farm with the same character.

 

For the record, this is my own farm I made a couple years ago and have been using to level alts, etc. As I showed above, I could guaranteed get from 1 - 36 in a single run that took around 45 min (carnie outdoor map). The mobs are all custom and had a mix of ranged and melee attacks that maxed their xp at 100% per mob at level 50.

 

After the Page 4 changes to AE mob rewards, I was only able to get a character from 1 - 29.

 

So 7 FEWER levels. Took around the same amount of time as earlier, so the changes to aggro didn't help much with speed (to be expected considering a solid farming build mows through spawns pretty quickly before aggro on neighbor groups even matters).

 

I went into my mob editor and see that most of my once 100% mobs (minions, lieus, and bosses) are now only worth 79% while my 100% EB is at 90%  Again, they have a mix of ranged and melee, so I wasn't cheesing the farm with all ranged or gimped custom attacks. E.G. my bosses have Incinerate, Combustion, Blaze, Scorch and Fire Blast

 

The only way I can get them back up to 100% is to add Build Up / Fiery Embrace to every single mob.

 

So what does it all mean? Well if I want to restore the xp / mob value to 100% I will certainly have to increase the damage output of the farm. Probably not dramatically enough that I'll suddenly be unable to complete a solo run. But enough that I'll have to compensate for it.

 

Does that by itself upset me? No, not really. HOWEVER, it is a NERF to AE whether you farm or not. Even though an AE mob was already rewarding 1/2 xp to a door mission mob, you now need to make all of them more dangerous than a typical mob just to get the same reduced reward you were getting for years.

 

Meanwhile, all the patch notes provide is a sanitized ("normalized") accusatory ("bare-minimum") list:

 

Custom Enemy Changes

• Power point values for all Custom Enemy powers have been normalized. Some powersets in the same category were set below standard point values and some were set above.
• This means existing AE arcs may need adjusting if any custom enemies were using the bare-minimum power selection for max rewards with powersets that were above the standard values for that type.
• Primary sets now have lower recharge timers than secondary sets.
• Custom Enemy powers that require the target be grounded are no longer calculated as ranged attacks for point value purposes.
• All Custom Enemy ranged attacks have a minimum range of 80ft.

 

This is a good, explanation on what's going on and I do agree, this is a shame that after 3 years that this was done and indeed is an intentional nerf directed to and specifically against farming.   The "normalized" language is was an intentional misdirect as well to try to ameliorate those intentions.   It is a shame and I do hope that there will be methods worked out that can help farming be what has been enjoyed by players for these past 3 years.

 

However, I also think this is just one step in the team's intentions: to phase out/implement more measures to discourage farming.   After all, they had more stringent plans that were to be enabled back in July but backed away from that for Page 4 due to players' criticisms of it.  That establishes that that mindset/intentions are there.

 

HC has benefitted from letting people play and enjoy the game as they wish for these 3 years for the most part.  And while I know some farmers have been saying they're also disappointed, I encourage farmers to actually farm more.  Discouragement is the intent, thus redoubling efforts to farm and assist those wanting to partake of farms is a better route.

 

Thank you again for taking the time to look into this and please keep doing so.  More farm makers and farmers that know/understand these things, the better.

[Dark Current]

8 hours ago, Sanguinesun said:

 

This is a good, explanation on what's going on and I do agree, this is a shame that after 3 years that this was done and indeed is an intentional nerf directed to and specifically against farming.   The "normalized" language is was an intentional misdirect as well to try to ameliorate those intentions.   It is a shame and I do hope that there will be methods worked out that can help farming be what has been enjoyed by players for these past 3 years.

 

However, I also think this is just one step in the team's intentions: to phase out/implement more measures to discourage farming.   After all, they had more stringent plans that were to be enabled back in July but backed away from that for Page 4 due to players' criticisms of it.  That establishes that that mindset/intentions are there.

 

HC has benefitted from letting people play and enjoy the game as they wish for these 3 years for the most part.  And while I know some farmers have been saying they're also disappointed, I encourage farmers to actually farm more.  Discouragement is the intent, thus redoubling efforts to farm and assist those wanting to partake of farms is a better route.

 

Thank you again for taking the time to look into this and please keep doing so.  More farm makers and farmers that know/understand these things, the better.

 

You're welcome.

 

I can expand upon my last test with another data point. I went ahead and edited all of my custom mobs to restore them to 100% xp / mob (98 - 100 to be exact) by creating a new combination of powers. EVERY mob has 6 or more attacks in a roughly 50/50 mix of ranged and melee with some heavy hitters mixed it.

 

DESPITE doing this, I was only able to take a new alt from 1-31 on the same farm with the same farmer as when I got an alt from 1-36 pre Page 4.

 

So even with maxing the mobs' difficulty to 100% I'm still getting less xp per target than I was before the update. Therefore, a nerf to xp itself was thrown in, not just a normalization of power points or whatever they call it. I don't see that anywhere in the patch notes.

 

To confirm this, I rewatched my vids of my pre-Page 4 run and the post-Page 4 run above comparing 100% xp mobs side by side at level 31:

 

Pre

Min 907

Lieu 3025

Boss 9075

 

Post

Min 605

Lieu 1963

Boss 5992

 

You're looking at roughly a 1/3 NERF to xp for the new custom mobs in Page 4 that have MORE POWERS that makes them MORE DANGEROUS and are reportedly the same 100% reward value as pre-Nerf.

 

Dear HC Devs, if you're going to lower the reward value of custom mobs, then just say so. Don't hide it behind obscure and accusatory language.  What exactly is the 'right' risk vs reward measure you're basing this change on?

[Digirium]

Are you accounting for the fix to Double XP boosters (it explains the 1-31 in place of 1-36 now you have fixed it up to 100% again)?

 

Edit: I would really like to be able to push the bar beyond 100% for increased XP/Inf.

Edited August 29, 2022 by Digirium

[America's Angel]

1 hour ago, Dark Current said:

You're looking at roughly a 1/3 NERF to xp for the new custom mobs in Page 4 that have MORE POWERS that makes them MORE DANGEROUS and are reportedly the same 100% reward value as pre-Nerf.

 

In Page 3, the P2W double XP booster was giving triple XP. In Page 4 it now gives double XP. That's why powerveleing takes 33% longer now.

 

It wasn't a nerf (nerfs are due to balance), it was a bugfix. (It was called "double" xp but was giving triple.)

 

With that said, I don't think the old triple xp booster was a bad thing, just named incorrectly. So I'd be up for a triple XP booster being added to the P2W.

 

[Dark Current]

I'm not seeing the 2x xp / 3x xp booster fix in the patch notes anywhere.

[Digirium]

30 minutes ago, Dark Current said:

I'm not seeing the 2x xp / 3x xp booster fix in the patch notes anywhere.

 

You might be right, I could not see it mentioned in the "official" Page 4 patch notes at the top of the forum. It was mentioned in the beta patch notes and a topic of discussion in the beta feedback threads so perhaps check those?

[Dark Current]

And I'm not sure how we would know if something is 2x, 3x or whatever xp in AE anyway. What's the standard of comparison when AE custom mobs are so variable? Is there a known xp value for mobs in door missions somewhere?

[America's Angel]

1 hour ago, Dark Current said:

And I'm not sure how we would know if something is 2x, 3x or whatever xp in AE anyway. What's the standard of comparison when AE custom mobs are so variable? Is there a known xp value for mobs in door missions somewhere?

Non-AE Mission = Mobs give 1xXP
Non-AE Mission w/Double XP Booster = Mobs give 2xXP

AE Mission = Mobs give 0.5xXP

AE Mission w/Double XP Booster = Mobs give 1xXP (Before Page 4 they gave 1.5xXP)

 

Dev's Choice AE Mission = Mobs give 1xXP
Dev's Choice Mission w/Double XP Booster = Mobs give 2xXP

[Glacier Peak]

1 hour ago, America's Angel said:

Non-AE Mission = Mobs give 1xXP
Non-AE Mission w/Double XP Booster = Mobs give 2xXP

AE Mission = Mobs give 0.5xXP

AE Mission w/Double XP Booster = Mobs give 1xXP (Before Page 4 they gave 1.5xXP)

 

Dev's Choice AE Mission = Mobs give 1xXP
Dev's Choice Mission w/Double XP Booster = Mobs give 2xXP

Oh oh and the hard modes add higher xp and inf for each tier as well! I believe additional 40% at 4 star.

[Outrider_01]

Martial Arts / Fire Armor Farmer

 

Just something I threw together and tried on test, would say its about as competitive as claws.

 

Spoiler

This Villain build was built using Mids Reborn 3.2.17
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Brute
Primary Power Set: Martial Arts
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Storm Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Fire Shield -- Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(3), Ags-EndRdx/Rchg(3), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(5), GldArm-3defTpProc(5)
Level 2: Cobra Strike -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(7), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(7), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(9), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(11)
Level 4: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 6: Focus Chi -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(11), GssSynFr--Build%(13)
Level 8: Crane Kick -- CrsImp-Acc/Dmg(A), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx(13), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17)
Level 10: Blazing Aura -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(17), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(19), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(21), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21)
Level 12: Healing Flames -- Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(A), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(23), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(23), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(25), Pnc-Heal(25)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(27)
Level 16: Plasma Shield -- Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Ags-EndRdx/Rchg(27), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(29)
Level 18: Crippling Axe Kick -- Hct-Dmg/Rchg(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Hct-Acc/Rchg(31), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Hct-Dam%(31)
Level 20: Consume -- MckBrt-Taunt(A), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg(33), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(33), MckBrt-Acc/Rchg(33), MckBrt-Taunt/Rng(34), MckBrt-Rchg(34)
Level 22: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Tough -- Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Ags-EndRdx/Rchg(34), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 26: Dragon's Tail -- SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), SprBrtFur-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), SprBrtFur-Rech/Fury%(37), SprUnrFur-Rchg/+Regen/+End(50)
Level 28: Burn -- FuroftheG-ResDeb%(A), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Arm-Acc/Rchg(39), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Arm-Dam%(39), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(40)
Level 30: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(40)
Level 32: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(40)
Level 35: Fiery Embrace -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 38: Gloom -- Apc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Apc-Acc/Rchg(42), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Apc-Dam%(43)
Level 41: Dark Obliteration -- Ann-ResDeb%(A), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(43), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(45), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Rgn-Knock%(46)
Level 44: Soul Tentacles -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(A), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx(46), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(48), SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc(48)
Level 47: Tactics -- EndRdx-I(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Fury 
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(50)
Level 1: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 50: Musculature Total Core Revamp 
Level 50: Ion Core Final Judgement 
Level 50: Degenerative Core Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Ageless Total Core Invocation 
Level 50: Assault Total Radial Graft 
------------

3 AoE, Burn / Dragon's Tail / Dark Obliteration.  Slot the -resist in first slot of Burn or Dark Oblitteration, damage debuff is applied just before the damage is applied so the same attack gets a slight boost.  Recharge is pretty fast

 

3 Single target, Cobra Strike, Crane Kick, and Crippling axe kick.  All 3 are 1.6 sec activation and a fast attack chain.  Plus Gloom in the epic, Great for chewing through EB in some of the bigger maps.  Eagle Claw isn't needed, animation is too slow.

 

+5 the recharge IO on Focus Chi, Hasten, and Fiery Embrace.  With the incarnate, they are as low as possible for recharge.

 

Extra slot in Health, could move to Crane kick for a Sudden Acceleration KB-KD.

 

Suggest using some binds around WASD for Burn, Dragons Tail, and Dark Obliteration.

 

Its not an uber build, it works and its something different if that floats your fury bar.

[cyberwraith]

Does anybody know of a level 50 map similar to Bloody Rainbow to use post-nerf?

 

[Ukase]

On 10/22/2022 at 11:30 AM, cyberwraith said:

Does anybody know of a level 50 map similar to Bloody Rainbow to use post-nerf?

 

Type Bloodom in the search window - there are several. The 5 and 10 minute ones are asteroids, the 40 minute one is a cave map. 

I was doing an XP comparison, and these are the values I got, for minion, lt, and boss, respectively. 

If it's not 100% XP, it's pretty close. I like the 40 minute map. Running any asteroid map is too quick to really be afk. 

[Flambouyant]

Hi all - I was wondering if someone has an updated Rad/Fire Brute farmer build they are using since the patch that I could get for Mids? I've tried a few on my own, and although I have a build that keeps me safe for most of farms, my influence is not good at all. I am a low to mid-level farmer compared to the amount I see some of you get in influence on your runs, but I am averaging only about a 900k a minute (not counting drops.)  Thanks for anyone who is willing to share.

[Tolk63]

Hey all.

 

So, I had taken a bit of a break from gaming. Came back to CoH and ran my Spines/Fire/Mu farmer on 19823, by Big Gotter. I got my ass handed to me.

 

Now, I've done a little bit of reading, but not a lot. I realize things were nerfed a bit. But reading some of these it sounds like some of you have just made some adjustments to builds, which was going to happen, of course. Saying that, does anyone have a current Spines/Fire/Mu Brute build that runs decently that they could post to me here? 

 

I have a Rad/Fire/Mu tank build that surprisingly does decently in that same AE mish, but it's obviously slower at finishing up than my Brute had been at one time. But its survivability seems twice that of the Brute now, which hadn't ever been an issue, and I don't understand the how/why things have changed so much.

 

Thanks

[Meknomancer]

Page 5 changed some stuff to fire melee so if your running older/ not yet updated farms you'll find your defence getting hammered to the point where you faceplant in seconds.

2 options. Go back to page 1 on this thread and start reading til you get to a page 5 farm friendly build and a page 5 fire farm ID and respec your toon and pick up the accolades needed if you haven't . Or find an updated farm map, if you ask in help/general someone will have a list. 

[Targren]

On 1/10/2023 at 7:12 AM, Meknomancer said:

Page 5 changed some stuff to fire melee so if your running older/ not yet updated farms you'll find your defence getting hammered to the point where you faceplant in seconds.

2 options. Go back to page 1 on this thread and start reading til you get to a page 5 farm friendly build and a page 5 fire farm ID and respec your toon and pick up the accolades needed if you haven't . Or find an updated farm map, if you ask in help/general someone will have a list. 

 

Someone mentioned a "+Regen" accolade, but looking at the wiki, I couldn't find one. Do you know which one that is? 

[DarknessEternal]

The max HP accolades are regen by the way the game works.