Pylon Damage Thread

[Bill Z Bubba]

Got the claws/bio T3ed and made a few changes. Getting there. 1:47 for 486 dps.

[Auroxis]

3 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Got the claws/bio T3ed and made a few changes. Getting there. 1:47 for 486 dps.

Nice, is that with 2-4 procs in each attack and Moonbeam?

 

Also, Hybrid toggled on or off?

[Bill Z Bubba]

20 minutes ago, Auroxis said:

Nice, is that with 2-4 procs in each attack and Moonbeam?

 

Also, Hybrid toggled on or off?

Hybrid assault toggled on.

 

Here's the current build. I'm 20% short on recharge, which blows. For a seamless fu, focus, slash chain, you gotta have 186% global and permahasten. EDIT: The recharges in hasten are at 50+5.

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.2
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

HK-666: Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Claws
Secondary Power Set: Bio Armor
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Swipe -- SprScrStr-Rchg/+Crit(A)
Level 1: Hardened Carapace -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(3), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(13), UnbGrd-Max HP%(17), GldArm-3defTpProc(48)
Level 2: Slash -- Hct-Dmg/Rchg(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), Hct-Acc/Rchg(15), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Hct-Dam%(42), AchHee-ResDeb%(42)
Level 4: Inexhaustible -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(5), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(5), Prv-Heal/Rchg(40), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(42), Prv-Absorb%(43)
Level 6: Spin -- Arm-Dmg/Rchg(A), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), Arm-Acc/Rchg(7), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(9), Arm-Dam%(25), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(43)
Level 8: Environmental Modification -- ShlWal-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(9), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(13), Rct-ResDam%(17)
Level 10: Follow Up -- SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg(A), SprCrtStr-Dmg/Rchg(11), SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), SprCrtStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), SprCrtStr-Rchg/+50% Crit(25)
Level 12: Adaptation
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(15)
Level 16: Ablative Carapace -- NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(A), Mrc-Heal/Rchg(40)
Level 18: Focus -- Apc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), Apc-Acc/Rchg(19), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Apc-Dam%(37), GldJvl-Dam%(43)
Level 20: Evolving Armor -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(21), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(21), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 22: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Tough -- HO:Ribo(A), HO:Ribo(31), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(34), ImpSki-Status(36)
Level 26: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(31), LucoftheG-Def(34), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(36)
Level 28: DNA Siphon -- Obl-Acc/Rchg(A), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(29), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), Obl-%Dam(46)
Level 30: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 32: Shockwave -- SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg(A), SprScrStr-Dmg/Rchg(40), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), SprScrStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(46)
Level 35: Genetic Contamination -- FuroftheG-Acc/Dmg(A), FuroftheG-Dam/Rech(36), FuroftheG-Dam/End/Rech(37), FuroftheG-Acc/End/Rech(46), FuroftheG-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(48), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(48)
Level 38: Parasitic Aura -- Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(A), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(39), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(39), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(50), Pnc-Heal(50), Pnc-Heal/+End(50)
Level 41: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 44: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Physical Perfection -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(A), NmnCnv-Heal(33), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(34)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-EndMod/Rchg(27), PrfShf-EndMod/Acc(27), PrfShf-End%(37)
Level 12: Defensive Adaptation
Level 12: Efficient Adaptation
Level 12: Offensive Adaptation
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
Level 50: Degenerative Core Flawless Interface
Level 50: Assault Core Embodiment
------------

 

 

Edited September 8, 2019 by Bill Z Bubba

[Bill Z Bubba]

And I'm not sure how moonbeam would play with claws, even with no redraw selected.

[Sir Myshkin]

11 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Hybrid assault toggled on.

 

Here's the current build. I'm 20% short on recharge, which blows. For a seamless fu, focus, slash chain, you gotta have 186% global and permahasten. EDIT: The recharges in hasten are at 50+5.

Have you tried running FU > Focus > Slash > Shockwave, with Shockwave carrying the alt -Res proc?

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

Have you tried running FU > Focus > Slash > Shockwave, with Shockwave carrying the alt -Res proc?

I did. End usage on sw is just too high to be sustainable. And I prefer the KB -> KD proc in there instead.

[nihilii]

Fire/Rad/Psi Sentinel on Pineapple (new Justin)

Melee attack chain: Blaze -> Dominate -> Mind Probe -> Blaze -> Blazing Bolt -> Fireball, Aim+Inferno as needed, Flares replaces Fireball when Opportunity is up
Ranged attack chain: Blaze -> Blazing Bolt -> Fireball -> Blaze -> Dominate -> Flares

Ageless T4, Musc T4, Assault doublehit T4, Degen T4

Build:
 

Spoiler

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MELEE (Hybrid on)
2:15 - 411 DPS
2:34 - 376 DPS
2:28 - 386 DPS
2:35 - 375 DPS

MELEE (Hybrid off)
3:09 - 330 DPS

RANGED (Hybrid on)
3:00 - 340 DPS
2:58 - 343 DPS (<-- used Inferno in this attempt, so technically meleeish)

RANGED (Hybrid off)
3:54 - 291 DPS
3:36 - 305 DPS
3:50 - 294 DPS

This could use more runs, of course. Preliminary conclusions: the Blazing Bolt fix doesn't change much when it comes to ideal conditions DPS. However, it's a significant buff to ranged DPS, which is much more reliable.

[Tsuko]

2 hours ago, nihilii said:

Fire/Rad/Psi Sentinel on Pineapple (new Justin)

Melee attack chain: Blaze -> Dominate -> Mind Probe -> Blaze -> Blazing Bolt -> Fireball, Aim+Inferno as needed, Flares replaces Fireball when Opportunity is up
Ranged attack chain: Blaze -> Blazing Bolt -> Fireball -> Blaze -> Dominate -> Flares

Ageless T4, Musc T4, Assault doublehit T4, Degen T4

Build:
 

  Hide contents

 

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MELEE (Hybrid on)
2:15 - 411 DPS
2:34 - 376 DPS
2:28 - 386 DPS
2:35 - 375 DPS

MELEE (Hybrid off)
3:09 - 330 DPS

RANGED (Hybrid on)
3:00 - 340 DPS
2:58 - 343 DPS (<-- used Inferno in this attempt, so technically meleeish)

RANGED (Hybrid off)
3:54 - 291 DPS
3:36 - 305 DPS
3:50 - 294 DPS

This could use more runs, of course. Preliminary conclusions: the Blazing Bolt fix doesn't change much when it comes to ideal conditions DPS. However, it's a significant buff to ranged DPS, which is much more reliable.

Very nice 🙂

 

Did you use meltdown pre pull ?

[nihilii]

No, I don't activate any click before starting the clock. My usual protocol is get in position, start clock, fight.

[Tsuko]

24 minutes ago, nihilii said:

No, I don't activate any click before starting the clock. My usual protocol is get in position, start clock, fight.

So you use meltdown during the fight or not at all ? 🙂

[nihilii]

I use Meltdown at the beginning, after the clock started ticking. I don't usually use it again when the run is long enough it recharges, the ~3s animation isn't worth it if there's just 30s left of damage to do.

To be honest, I'm not even sure it's all that useful. A 3s cast is a large price to pay for just 60 seconds of +30% damage. 🤔 But, in general play, activating Meltdown can be done while clicking on a door or an elevator, and the +RES is also useful.

[Microcosm]

Been waiting for test to have incarnates again for a while for several characters. So I've been noodling. Bio is getting all the attention because of it's +dmg. That just doesn't feel right because I really think electric armor (one of my top two favorites) doesn't get enough love. Electric, besides just being very sturdy and having a damage aura, provides ridiculous endurance management and +rech. In fact, it offers so much endurance management I can skip slotting end redux in any of my attacks, and can do so without Ageless if I use Energize and Power Sink. By not slotting for endurance at all, I can fit more procs in to my attacks and make up the difference of not having the +dam. Note I did try a bio armor build on test without Ageless as well, could noooot get this tactic to work. With Ageless, I probably could but then the build is useless at anything but lvl 50 content. I've used the electric armor build on live without incarnates already, and it works fairly well until you exemp below Power Sink (so lvl 30). Below Power Sink it sucks wind too much unless you have a buffer.

 

TW/Elec Scrap

T4 Musc Core

T4 Degen Core

T4 Ageless Core

T4 Assault Core

 

Hybrid off:

1:19 (613)

1:11 (668)

 

Hybrid on:

56s (813)

54s (838)

 

Before incarnates were back, I was running the build by using Power Sink liberally. I tried with Char, Moonbeam, and Water Spout and got the best results with Water Spout at 2:20 (402) and 2:29 (385). For the incarnate times above I started off with waterspout but didn't resummon after the initial cast.

 

Edited to add the dps

Edited September 12, 2019 by Microcosm

[Enots]

20 hours ago, Microcosm said:

Been waiting for test to have incarnates again for a while for several characters. So I've been noodling. Bio is getting all the attention because of it's +dmg. That just doesn't feel right because I really think electric armor (one of my top two favorites) doesn't get enough love. Electric, besides just being very sturdy and having a damage aura, provides ridiculous endurance management and +rech. In fact, it offers so much endurance management I can skip slotting end redux in any of my attacks, and can do so without Ageless if I use Energize and Power Sink. By not slotting for endurance at all, I can fit more procs in to my attacks and make up the difference of not having the +dam. Note I did try a bio armor build on test without Ageless as well, could noooot get this tactic to work. With Ageless, I probably could but then the build is useless at anything but lvl 50 content. I've used the electric armor build on live without incarnates already, and it works fairly well until you exemp below Power Sink (so lvl 30). Below Power Sink it sucks wind too much unless you have a buffer.

 

TW/Elec Scrap

T4 Musc Core

T4 Degen Core

T4 Ageless Core

T4 Assault Core

 

Hybrid off:

1:19 (613)

1:11 (668)

 

Hybrid on:

56s (813)

54s (838)

 

Before incarnates were back, I was running the build by using Power Sink liberally. I tried with Char, Moonbeam, and Water Spout and got the best results with Water Spout at 2:20 (402) and 2:29 (385). For the incarnate times above I started off with waterspout but didn't resummon after the initial cast.

 

Edited to add the dps

You’re much more efficient than I am. Mind posting a build or a video? 

[BrandX]

22 hours ago, Microcosm said:

Been waiting for test to have incarnates again for a while for several characters. So I've been noodling. Bio is getting all the attention because of it's +dmg. That just doesn't feel right because I really think electric armor (one of my top two favorites) doesn't get enough love. Electric, besides just being very sturdy and having a damage aura, provides ridiculous endurance management and +rech. In fact, it offers so much endurance management I can skip slotting end redux in any of my attacks, and can do so without Ageless if I use Energize and Power Sink. By not slotting for endurance at all, I can fit more procs in to my attacks and make up the difference of not having the +dam. Note I did try a bio armor build on test without Ageless as well, could noooot get this tactic to work. With Ageless, I probably could but then the build is useless at anything but lvl 50 content. I've used the electric armor build on live without incarnates already, and it works fairly well until you exemp below Power Sink (so lvl 30). Below Power Sink it sucks wind too much unless you have a buffer.

 

TW/Elec Scrap

T4 Musc Core

T4 Degen Core

T4 Ageless Core

T4 Assault Core

 

Hybrid off:

1:19 (613)

1:11 (668)

 

Hybrid on:

56s (813)

54s (838)

 

Before incarnates were back, I was running the build by using Power Sink liberally. I tried with Char, Moonbeam, and Water Spout and got the best results with Water Spout at 2:20 (402) and 2:29 (385). For the incarnate times above I started off with waterspout but didn't resummon after the initial cast.

 

Edited to add the dps

 

Mind running that again with a different T4.  Like Preemptive, to see what the difference is between more proc damage and no -HP?  Or have you already?  

[TheAdjustor]

22 hours ago, Microcosm said:

Been waiting for test to have incarnates again for a while for several characters. So I've been noodling. Bio is getting all the attention because of it's +dmg. That just doesn't feel right because I really think electric armor (one of my top two favorites) doesn't get enough love. Electric, besides just being very sturdy and having a damage aura, provides ridiculous endurance management and +rech. In fact, it offers so much endurance management I can skip slotting end redux in any of my attacks, and can do so without Ageless if I use Energize and Power Sink. By not slotting for endurance at all, I can fit more procs in to my attacks and make up the difference of not having the +dam. Note I did try a bio armor build on test without Ageless as well, could noooot get this tactic to work. With Ageless, I probably could but then the build is useless at anything but lvl 50 content. I've used the electric armor build on live without incarnates already, and it works fairly well until you exemp below Power Sink (so lvl 30). Below Power Sink it sucks wind too much unless you have a buffer.

 

How much accuracy did you have and did you try the build against +4 opponents (with and without the level shift)

[Microcosm]

4 hours ago, TheAdjustor said:

How much accuracy did you have and did you try the build against +4 opponents (with and without the level shift)

I've got a Nucleolus in each attack, a kismet and tactics, though I didn't use tactics for the pylon tests (except one, didn't see a difference). Pre-Ageless I would definitely not run it with my slotting unless I needed the confuse/fear protection. I just found some +4 Rikti mobs on test and took a whack, not a problem. +3 mobs don't even seem to drop the health. Pulled two packs of +4s, still not an issue. The health does drop, but it's replenished by Energize at some point. The build also does have Power Surge and Hibernate if it became a problem. I deslotted Alpha to remove the level shift, still not a problem but it takes noticeably longer to clear the mob without that extra damage.

 

Now if this was +4s against Arachnoids or some very specific, Toxic heavy group, the build would have issues outside of running Power Surge. I know people hate crashing t9s, but I take it on Electric to patch that toxic hole. It also has a pbaoe hold when it crashes which can help. With the ppm changes, the lockdown proc is all but guaranteed to add an extra +2 mag to that, so it should hold bosses when it crashes if you are unlucky enough to still be fighting.

4 hours ago, BrandX said:

 

Mind running that again with a different T4.  Like Preemptive, to see what the difference is between more proc damage and no -HP?  Or have you already?  

So I was going to do that for you, but something has changed drastically on test. Pylons are now showing as 54 (purple) objects, as opposed to unknown level (yellow) objects, are significantly sturdier it seems and knocking me back through 15 pts of kb protection.... so I'll wait til we get apples to apples again. This might be related to the mothership raid changes they are pushing on test, which, if so, will totally change pylon testing..

7 hours ago, Enots said:

You’re much more efficient than I am. Mind posting a build or a video? 

How about I share the build, for science! Caveat: removed the LotG Defense IO from Defensive Sweep and the Shield Wall for two extra -kb IOs specifically for pylon testing. I could take Grounded instead, but it's an otherwise extremely skippable power so I never do.

 

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.0
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Titan Weapons
Secondary Power Set: Electric Armor
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Concealment
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Leviathan Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Defensive Sweep -- HO:Nucle(A), LucoftheG-Def(3), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(3), Obl-%Dam(5), Erd-%Dam(5), Obl-Dmg(17)
Level 1: Charged Armor -- RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(27), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(27), RctArm-ResDam(29)
Level 2: Lightning Field -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(17), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(19), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(25)
Level 4: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(31), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 6: Crushing Blow -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(7), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(7), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(15), TchofLadG-%Dam(15)
Level 8: Follow Through -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A), ExpStr-Dam%(9), HO:Nucle(9), Hct-Dam%(11), Hct-Dmg(11), Mk'Bit-Dam%(13)
Level 10: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(42), LucoftheG-Def(42), Ksm-ToHit+(43), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(43)
Level 12: Build Momentum -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(34), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(34), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(36), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(36), GssSynFr--Build%(37)
Level 14: Conductive Shield -- StdPrt-ResDam/EndRdx(A), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(39), StdPrt-ResKB(39), UnbGrd-Max HP%(50)
Level 16: Static Shield -- GldArm-ResDam(A), GldArm-End/Res(37), GldArm-3defTpProc(37)
Level 18: Rend Armor -- HO:Nucle(A), AchHee-ResDeb%(39), TchofLadG-%Dam(40), Mk'Bit-Dam%(40), SprScrStr-Rchg/+Crit(40), Dmg-I(42)
Level 20: Energize -- Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(A), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(21), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(21), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(23), Pnc-Heal/+End(23)
Level 22: Stealth -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 24: Tactics -- RctRtc-Pcptn(A), RctRtc-ToHit(31)
Level 26: Whirling Smash -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-Acc/Rchg(29), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(31), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Obl-%Dam(34)
Level 28: Lightning Reflexes -- Run-I(A)
Level 30: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 32: Arc of Destruction -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A), Arm-Dmg(33), Arm-Dam%(43), HO:Nucle(45), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(45), SprCrtStr-Rchg/+50% Crit(45)
Level 35: Power Sink -- EffAdp-EndMod/EndRdx(A), EffAdp-EndMod(36)
Level 38: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 41: Water Spout -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(46), Ann-ResDeb%(46), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), AchHee-ResDeb%(48)
Level 44: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 47: Power Surge -- Lck-%Hold(A), Lck-Rchg/Hold(48)
Level 49: Hibernate -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(50)
Level 1: Momentum
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 0: Task Force Commander
------------

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bill Z Bubba]

6 hours ago, Microcosm said:

So I was going to do that for you, but something has changed drastically on test. Pylons are now showing as 54 (purple) objects, as opposed to unknown level (yellow) objects, are significantly sturdier it seems and knocking me back through 15 pts of kb protection.... so I'll wait til we get apples to apples again. This might be related to the mothership raid changes they are pushing on test, which, if so, will totally change pylon testing..

This doesn't sound good.

[TheAdjustor]

8 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

This doesn't sound good.

Well it's certainly bad for the concept of pylon testing but it's pretty good for the idea of DPS testing with a survivable build.  Far too many of the builds that have been posting great numbers have been minimally survivable and very S/L focused. While they may not have been purposefully optimized for killing pylons, the builds fall well within that space.

[Bill Z Bubba]

48 minutes ago, TheAdjustor said:

Well it's certainly bad for the concept of pylon testing but it's pretty good for the idea of DPS testing with a survivable build.  Far too many of the builds that have been posting great numbers have been minimally survivable and very S/L focused. While they may not have been purposefully optimized for killing pylons, the builds fall well within that space.

A good point. While I do make choices that gear toward damage output, I've never built something purely to the task. Even the claws/bio scrapper I built just to see what it could do against a pylon was built "normally" and performs as expected throughout all content.

[Microcosm]

3 hours ago, TheAdjustor said:

Well it's certainly bad for the concept of pylon testing but it's pretty good for the idea of DPS testing with a survivable build.  Far too many of the builds that have been posting great numbers have been minimally survivable and very S/L focused. While they may not have been purposefully optimized for killing pylons, the builds fall well within that space.

I don't know, I feel like if you build enough to survive a pylon you're going to survive a good deal of content, even assuming just the s/l part. You're not doing max survival while pumping max dps, that seems like a different test. It's a totally valid test, just a different one. That said, builds that gimp everything to only be used on a pylon, I don't see the point other than "oh, neat". Or if the build is so reliant on incarnates it won't function below 50, that's not a build I would ever play except as a secondary build, because you're locking yourself out of most of the game. As an example, the proc PB build I made would be something I switch to when facing an AV, but it shouldn't be taken as "this is what PBs can generally do for dps" because it's not at all what you would run standard.

[TheAdjustor]

32 minutes ago, Microcosm said:

I don't know, I feel like if you build enough to survive a pylon you're going to survive a good deal of content, even assuming just the s/l part. You're not doing max survival while pumping max dps, that seems like a different test. It's a totally valid test, just a different one. That said, builds that gimp everything to only be used on a pylon, I don't see the point other than "oh, neat". Or if the build is so reliant on incarnates it won't function below 50, that's not a build I would ever play except as a secondary build, because you're locking yourself out of most of the game. As an example, the proc PB build I made would be something I switch to when facing an AV, but it shouldn't be taken as "this is what PBs can generally do for dps" because it's not at all what you would run standard.

Well I tried doing the pylon test with my Claws/EA brute a couple weeks back, the DPS was rather miserable. Claws on a brute is not very proc friendly and it was a build that was geared toward AOE damage (shockwave had KB->KD pproc) every set bonus that could patch a hole in my defense was pursued, recharge was ruthlessly pursued to get energize near permanent. As a side effect I noticed I hadn't had to even use energize while fighting the pylon, what's more after the challenge I let my character do the "read paper" emote next to the pylon till he got the AFK notice.

 

I may sound something of an elitist here but from what I see +4 seems to be the new norm.  While I can't say I am particularly fond of this, I much prefer going for speed TFs as it actually takes teamwork and some planning not having a bunch of tanky toons in the team, +4 does seem to be where things are.  There is a certain validity to it when you consider incarnate content.

Edited September 13, 2019 by TheAdjustor

[Eva Destruction]

41 minutes ago, Microcosm said:

 Or if the build is so reliant on incarnates it won't function below 50, that's not a build I would ever play except as a secondary build, because you're locking yourself out of most of the game. As an example, the proc PB build I made would be something I switch to when facing an AV, but it shouldn't be taken as "this is what PBs can generally do for dps" because it's not at all what you would run standard.

I have alts.  Most people have alts.  So I think it's perfectly valid to build a character that only functions at 50, or that is geared entirely toward AV-soloing, because you can always switch to another character for content they're not good for.  Builds that are designed only to "win" the pylon thread, eh, I don't see the point either unless you consider it a contest, which isn't really the intent of the pylon test, but people have done sillier things in this game so whatever.

[Microcosm]

1 minute ago, Eva Destruction said:

I have alts.  Most people have alts.  So I think it's perfectly valid to build a character that only functions at 50, or that is geared entirely toward AV-soloing, because you can always switch to another character for content they're not good for.  Builds that are designed only to "win" the pylon thread, eh, I don't see the point either unless you consider it a contest, which isn't really the intent of the pylon test, but people have done sillier things in this game so whatever.

I don't disagree, most things are valid if someone wants to do those builds. I just personally wouldn't play a build like that because I like to exemp to do tfs and such. So I keep it in context when I see a build of how it might also function in content I want to do. Unless I'm willing to spec out an exemp-friendly build too for it.

 

@TheAdjustor, I feel you on that. I have a warshade that is just an absolute monster at anything other than a pylon/AV... Can handle +4s without issue and pump out tons of AoE, but he's not likely to show up in this test any time soon.

[Frosticus]

1 hour ago, Microcosm said:

I don't disagree, most things are valid if someone wants to do those builds. I just personally wouldn't play a build like that because I like to exemp to do tfs and such. So I keep it in context when I see a build of how it might also function in content I want to do. Unless I'm willing to spec out an exemp-friendly build too for it.

 

@TheAdjustor, I feel you on that. I have a warshade that is just an absolute monster at anything other than a pylon/AV... Can handle +4s without issue and pump out tons of AoE, but he's not likely to show up in this test any time soon.

Me personally I see it as a real wasted opportunity to not maximize my build with incarnates in mind. Whether that means ignoring endurance, or even accuracy slotting for example. That becomes my 45+ build.

I use build slot #2 for my exemping build as most content I play is at least lvl 20 plus so a generic Franken IO build is more than suitable for pretty much everything in that range (20-45).

It works pretty well for me 🙂

[Sir Myshkin]

5 hours ago, Microcosm said:

I feel like if you build enough to survive a pylon you're going to survive a good deal of content, even assuming just the s/l part.

S/L holds the primary source of incoming damage in the game, with Energy being the third. To put that in more significant perspective: ~28% is Smashing, ~42% Lethal, and ~12% Energy. By reaching significant goals in S/L Defense or Resistance or Both, that easily knocks out 70% of the potential damage you'd encounter in the game. When people build to target those values, they're targeting a huge portion of the potential threat they'll face. The funny part is that in a positional stance, the Pylon does AoE, which is the smallest margin (10%) when it comes to positional.

5 hours ago, TheAdjustor said:

Well I tried doing the pylon test with my Claws/EA brute a couple weeks back, the DPS was rather miserable. Claws on a brute is not very proc friendly and it was a build that was geared toward AOE damage (shockwave had KB->KD pproc) every set bonus that could patch a hole in my defense was pursued, recharge was ruthlessly pursued to get energize near permanent. As a side effect I noticed I hadn't had to even use energize while fighting the pylon, what's more after the challenge I let my character do the "read paper" emote next to the pylon till he got the AFK notice.

 

I may sound something of an elitist here but from what I see +4 seems to be the new norm.  While I can't say I am particularly fond of this, I much prefer going for speed TFs as it actually takes teamwork and some planning not having a bunch of tanky toons in the team, +4 does seem to be where things are.  There is a certain validity to it when you consider incarnate content.

Welcome to Claws in general, without substantial impact from -Res, or significant +Dam, Claws doesn't scream "Look at my ST DPS!" in any way. There's definitely got to be focused leverage to start breaking that 250 DPS mark (or, in more substantial terms, the ability to take down an AV in less than 8-10 minutes). But you are right, there is a lot of focus on making things capable of surviving +4 Content. When I did all the proc testing for Controllers/Defenders/Tanks(in process), all survival was judged on a +4 scale, and tested against +4 Enemies, and I only used the Pylon as a measuring stick for DPS, nothing more, and no build was focused-designed for that one task. The Pylon just happens to serve as a nice tool to test what a build can do in terms of taking down a lone, single, heavy HP target. That's all the test was originally ever meant to serve as a utility. That's also why it became relevant and necessary to talk about what Incarnates were being used because of how much they changed that function/utility.

 

You're speaking to a particularly poignant aspect of this scenario: Your Brute clearly can hold its own, but Claws is more an AoE concentric set that can do some ST damage, but [you're] not useless by any stretch, and can definitely take a hit to serve as the point break for a team. You have nothing to inherently prove in that realm, so your build's ability to take down a Pylon (within a considerably reasonable time) doesn't mean it sucks, it just isn't geared for single-target tasking. Considering what it is, IMO, based on their design and utility (ie: Fury), Brutes really serve as a crowd-centered role and benefit vastly more from AoE based concepts. We also see a lot fewer Brute attempts at a Pylon compared to Stalkers or Scrappers or Blasters or (you get the idea).

 

This is a key point on why I feel, and mentioned a bit back, how we need that alternative metric like the AV AE Map to really have a more demonstrable metric in a "realistic" scenario that has better control over flexing the "+4 World."

 

3 hours ago, Frosticus said:

Me personally I see it as a real wasted opportunity to not maximize my build with incarnates in mind. Whether that means ignoring endurance, or even accuracy slotting for example. That becomes my 45+ build.

I use build slot #2 for my exemping build as most content I play is at least lvl 20 plus so a generic Franken IO build is more than suitable for pretty much everything in that range (20-45).

It works pretty well for me 🙂

Back when the Devs opened up multi-build capabilities, between PvP Players, and those who wanted "Exemp Builds" and "50 Builds" this play style is exactly why they gave that to the community. There are so many people who go down that path and it makes the game a better experience for all involved because it opens up so many customization options. It's great 🙂

 

Me personally... I'm too lazy to make multiple builds for my personal characters 🤣 but at least we can attune all our IO's to keep bonuses functional for wider ranges.