Pylon Damage Thread

[Bill Z Bubba]

Hey @oldskool I'm in the same boat on the heavy proc builds. Just seems to lose way too much for not enough gain.

[JayboH]

Depends on AT.  A Thugs/Traps  can be softcapped and procced to the gills without losing much at all.

[Sovera]

Same with a KM/EA Stalker I made and posted over the Stalker forums. Triple damage procs on each attack helped pushed its burst, but I never did get around to test it on a pylon (I haven't pyloned in months tbh) to see how it fared, but it was softcapped and has the accuracy and endurance and etc firmly in hand.

Edited May 14, 2020 by Sovera

[Crowcus Pocus]

Hey guys, unrelated question: when it comes to soloing AVs / TFs, which interface is recommended? Does the -HP one affect AVs or just regular mobs?

 

Thanks.

[nihilii]

8 minutes ago, Falsey said:

Hey guys, unrelated question: when it comes to soloing AVs / TFs, which interface is recommended? Does the -HP one affect AVs or just regular mobs?

The -HP one affects AVs and is rather efficient for that task. Lowering their HP essentially lowers their regen as well.

[N3ky]

Hi all, I just want to make somenthing clear about this "Pylon Test" and raw dps formule. If you are using any kinde of -res power/enchancem/Incarnate, you are not taking this into account when you makes your calculation and insted you are "buffing" your raw dps. Why? Because in the equation (1-0.20) we are buffing the out coming damage 20% because we assumed the Pylon is always ressisting 20% of our damage. The same applys to -regeneration and -HP debuffers. Not only that, proc damage ignore damage resistence. 

 

To make it clear, we can not even talk about dps here! If we want to know our dps (raw dps is almost impossible for most of AT) we have to take all damage information we did in the combat tab/chat and sume all the damage and divided by the time of the fight.

 

 

[oldskool]

44 minutes ago, N3ky said:

Hi all, I just want to make somenthing clear about this "Pylon Test" and raw dps formule. If you are using any kinde of -res power/enchancem/Incarnate, you are not taking this into account when you makes your calculation and insted you are "buffing" your raw dps. Why? Because in the equation (1-0.20) we are buffing the out coming damage 20% because we assumed the Pylon is always ressisting 20% of our damage. The same applys to -regeneration and -HP debuffers. Not only that, proc damage ignore damage resistence. 

 

To make it clear, we can not even talk about dps here! If we want to know our dps (raw dps is almost impossible for most of AT) we have to take all damage information we did in the combat tab/chat and sume all the damage and divided by the time of the fight.

I take back my original reply.  

I'd love to see the following: 

1) Add up all damage dealt and divide it by time of the fight.  

2) Use the formula of this thread. 

3) Show the variance.  

4) Let us know how you like your crow cooked.

Edited May 15, 2020 by oldskool

[Werner]

On 5/15/2020 at 9:17 AM, N3ky said:

Hi all, I just want to make somenthing clear about this "Pylon Test" and raw dps formule. If you are using any kinde of -res power/enchancem/Incarnate, you are not taking this into account when you makes your calculation and insted you are "buffing" your raw dps. Why? Because in the equation (1-0.20) we are buffing the out coming damage 20% because we assumed the Pylon is always ressisting 20% of our damage. The same applys to -regeneration and -HP debuffers. Not only that, proc damage ignore damage resistence. 

 

To make it clear, we can not even talk about dps here! If we want to know our dps (raw dps is almost impossible for most of AT) we have to take all damage information we did in the combat tab/chat and sume all the damage and divided by the time of the fight.

I think you may be unaware of an aspect of how damage resistance works, which is that damage resistance resists damage resistance debuffs. And if you were aware, it's worth at least pointing out for anyone who isn't aware. If you have 50% damage resistance, for instance, you also have 50% damage resistance debuff resistance. They go hand in hand. This has rather important implications for the validity of damage resistance debuffs in our DPS testing. 

 

Let's say we hit an enemy with a 100 HP attack. Here's what the enemy takes for a few damage resistance values. All very straightforward.

 

 0% = 100 HP
10% =  90 HP
50% =  50 HP

 

Now we hit them with a 20% damage resistance debuff. The enemy with 0% damage resistance takes the full 20% damage resistance debuff. The enemy with 10% damage resistance takes only a 20% * (100% - 10%) = 18% damage resistance debuff. The enemy with 50% damage resistance takes only a 20% * (100% - 50%) = 10% damage resistance debuff. So what are their new damage resistance values?

 

 0% - 20% = -20%
10% - 18% =  -8%
50% - 10% =  40%

 

Now we hit them with another 100 HP attack. Here's what the enemy takes in damage this time for those new damage resistance values:

 

-20% = 120 HP
 -8% = 108 HP
 40% =  60 HP

 

Now compare the damage we did before and after the 20% debuff. What percentage more damage did we do?

 

100 HP -> 120 HP = 20% more damage
 90 HP -> 108 HP = 20% more damage
 50 HP ->  60 HP = 20% more damage

 

It is just as if our second attack had simply done 120 HP instead of 100 HP. And that is why we can treat -damage resistance the same as additional damage, no matter what damage resistance the target has, so we can take the lessons learned about damage resistance debuffs on a Pylon and correctly apply them to AVs, say, regardless of the AVs' damage resistance.

 

We can perhaps make a similar argument about hit point debuffs, though I'm not clear if those can be resisted, and if so by what. If they're affected by the purple patch, for instance, then hit point debuffs wouldn't help much against level 54 AVs. I don't actually know, though. Hopefully someone can say. And regeneration debuffs are possibly not as applicable. I'm not sure, but I think they are affected by the purple patch, so wouldn't be the equivalent sort of buff against a level 54 AV. Again, hopefully someone knows for sure. So you may have a point about those debuffs. I'm actually not sure. And even with damage resistance debuffs, you'll have less time to apply them against lesser targets, so they won't be as effective as raw damage most of the time. Same with Brute's Fury. Same with Assault Core. Time to ramp up is a factor with a lot of things that help our damage out. But I suspect that many or most of us are viewing the Pylon as a proxy for an AV, not as some measurement of how fast we can clear minions. Anyway, yes, raw damage is raw damage, other sources that take time to ramp up or apply debuffs are not exactly equivalent, though damage resistance debuffs are close. But I hope we're all aware of that. If not, maybe it's good for it to be pointed out now and then. Just not in what felt like a "y'all are clearly missing something very important so it's good I'm here to enlighten you" sort of way. Even if you're trying to help us out, that sort of presentation may annoy people and keep the core message from getting through. I fear I may have just indulged in the same thing, though. But I did worry that you might not understand that damage resistance resists damage resistance debuffs, and how that affects things. And even if you understood that, I'm sure some people do not.

Edited September 4, 2020 by Werner

[Werner]

1 hour ago, oldskool said:

proc damage ignore damage resistence. 

It does? I wouldn't have thought this to be the case, but I suppose I don't know.

 

Bah! Why does it say oldskool? Why can't I delete the post? Why can't I delete the quote and try again? Stupid forum! 🙄

Edited May 15, 2020 by Werner

[oldskool]

55 minutes ago, Werner said:

It does? I wouldn't have thought this to be the case, but I suppose I don't know.

I'm not sure where that post is getting their information from.  Damage procs are damage sources.  They are reduced by damage resistance, and their damage will improve if that resistance is lowered. 

This is such an easily verifiable test that the poster is either misinformed and speaking with authority they shouldn't, or they are trolling.  

I just spun up the game.  I decided to jump on a character with multiple procs in an attack but a particularly high chance to trigger one of the purples.  

Pylons have 20% resistance to almost everything.  A PPM 4.5 proc (purple) does just over 107 damage.  My attack registered 85 and change damage from Unbreakable Constraint.  

If that proc were going direct to hit points as the post suggests, then it should do its full 107 damage every time.  That's not how the game registers it though.  

[Werner]

8 minutes ago, oldskool said:

A PPM 4.5 proc (purple) does just over 107 damage.  My attack registered 85 and change damage from Unbreakable Constraint.

Thank you for testing!

[Pzn]

On 5/14/2020 at 9:00 AM, oldskool said:

Fair points.  I thought about going all procs on my DP/SR before and maybe running Tactics.  I don't need all of the set bonuses I have, but they are my precious.  We wants them.  So backed off that idea and just went with the boring route I tend to go.  

I had originally considered doing full on procs with Assault Rifle with /SR too.  That's where I started.  I loaded M30 Grenade with everything it could take, and just said screw it to set bonuses.  Unfortunately, I can't stand playing characters like that so I dropped the idea.  I exemplar enough that I don't like having accuracy drop below 90% for even the lower level stuff.  As a concession to full procs, both builds have 5 slots in Tashibishi of just that.

 

Next time you are going to make a proc build pick a set that offers some +tohit so that you don't have to sacrifice accuracy in order to max out procs.  I love invuln for sentinels for procs for example since the +tohit makes it easy to build.  Same for running tactics on defenders. 

Edited May 15, 2020 by josh1622

[oldskool]

29 minutes ago, josh1622 said:

Next time you are going to make a proc build pick a set that offers some +tohit so that you don't have to sacrifice accuracy in order to max out procs.  I love invuln for sentinels for procs for example since the +tohit makes it easy to build.  Same for running tactics on defenders. 

Um, thanks for the condescending and entirely unsolicited advice?  

Perhaps next time you opt to write something where your opinion was never desired, nor is it needed, you'll reconsider your tone?

[Pzn]

Just now, oldskool said:

Um, thanks for the condescending and entirely unsolicited advice?  

Perhaps next time you opt to write something where your opinion was never desired, nor is it needed, you'll reconsider your tone?

There was no tone.   I didn't mean anything by it dude

['Tan]

First time trying pylon testing.. happy with the results. 

Stone/Bio/Soul Brute - T4 Musc / T4 Degen / T4 Assault / T4 Ageless (no Lore or Judgement)

1:52 => 470DPS

1:47 => 486DPS

1:45 => 493DPS

1:40 => 511DPS

1:43 =>500DPS

Average = 492DPS

[Microcosm]

2 hours ago, josh1622 said:

Next time you are going to make a proc build pick a set that offers some +tohit so that you don't have to sacrifice accuracy in order to max out procs.  I love invuln for sentinels for procs for example since the +tohit makes it easy to build.  Same for running tactics on defenders. 

Sr is actually a very good option for procs, because it gives you a free 20% rech vs the tohit bonus from invuln; both allow you to slot less of something than standard armors. However Sr also takes very little investment to hit softcap, freeing up even more slots. Probably the best armor for it is energy, which gives recharge and endurance while still being able to softcap. I prefer electric for the same benefits as energy (minus def) except you lose some slots to getting s/l defense, but the survival trade off is well worth it.

[Pzn]

1 hour ago, Microcosm said:

Sr is actually a very good option for procs, because it gives you a free 20% rech vs the tohit bonus from invuln; both allow you to slot less of something than standard armors. However Sr also takes very little investment to hit softcap, freeing up even more slots. Probably the best armor for it is energy, which gives recharge and endurance while still being able to softcap. I prefer electric for the same benefits as energy (minus def) except you lose some slots to getting s/l defense, but the survival trade off is well worth it.

Good to know.  I need to experiment more with SR, especially the sentinel version.

[Sovera]

3 hours ago, 'Tan said:

First time trying pylon testing.. happy with the results. 

Stone/Bio/Soul Brute - T4 Musc / T4 Degen / T4 Assault / T4 Ageless (no Lore or Judgement)

1:52 => 470DPS

1:47 => 486DPS

1:45 => 493DPS

1:40 => 511DPS

1:43 =>500DPS

Average = 492DPS

Any clickies used such as Assault? What was the rotation?

['Tan]

53 minutes ago, Sovera said:

Any clickies used such as Assault? What was the rotation?

Yep used assault at the beginning.

Rotation mostly followed Stone Mallet -> Seismic -> Heavy Mallet -> Gloom -> Stone Mallet. Used Build Up and DNA Siphon when available.

It would vary based on if FF proc fired in Stone Mallet (which seems like it would 25% of the time).

[Bill Z Bubba]

16 hours ago, 'Tan said:

Yep used assault at the beginning.

Rotation mostly followed Stone Mallet -> Seismic -> Heavy Mallet -> Gloom -> Stone Mallet. Used Build Up and DNA Siphon when available.

It would vary based on if FF proc fired in Stone Mallet (which seems like it would 25% of the time).

 

Wonder how much recharge you'd need to tighten that attack chain up some. How much does your build have now?

['Tan]

6 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Wonder how much recharge you'd need to tighten that attack chain up some. How much does your build have now?

77.5% . I could probably get the time down to 1:30 if I could have Seismic available after any 3 attacks. 

[Werner]

Katana/Dark/Soul Brute

 

Golden Dragonfly -> Gloom -> Soaring Dragon -> Divine Avalanche

 

T4 Degenerative Radial
T4 Assault Core
no Lore pets, Musculature, or Ageless

 

2:40 2:45 2:45 2:37 2:39
2:40 2:42 2:48 2:55 2:39
163 seconds average = 363 DPS

 

Hit Hasten, Assault, started the clock. Used The Lotus Drops as filler when Hasten was down. Just the pylon, no additional enemies to buff Fury. Chain has 3 -resistance, 3 purple damage, and 3 regular damage procs. Slotted minimal recharge enhancement for the highest proc chances. Endurance is OK - no blues needed in over 25 minutes fighting 5 L54 AVs.

 

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Alexei: Level 50 Magic Brute
Primary Power Set: Katana
Secondary Power Set: Dark Armor
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Gambler's Cut -- SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg(A), SprUnrFur-Dmg/Rchg(3), SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), SprUnrFur-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SprUnrFur-Rchg/+Regen/+End(7)
Level 1: Dark Embrace -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), GldArm-ResDam(7), GldArm-End/Res(9), GldArm-Res/Rech/End(9)
Level 2: Death Shroud -- SprBrtFur-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg(11), SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), SprBrtFur-Dmg/Rchg(13), SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), SprBrtFur-Rech/Fury(15)
Level 4: Murky Cloud -- UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(A), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(21), UnbGrd-ResDam(21), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(23), UnbGrd-Max HP%(23)
Level 6: Hover -- Ksm-ToHit+(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(25)
Level 8: Divine Avalanche -- SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(A), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(27), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(27), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(29), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(29)
Level 10: Obsidian Shield -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), TtnCtn-ResDam(31), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(31)
Level 12: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(31), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(33), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(33), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 16: Dark Regeneration -- FuroftheG-Acc/Dmg(A), FuroftheG-Acc/End/Rech(34), FuroftheG-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(34), Prv-Heal(34), Prv-Heal/Rchg(36), ThfofEss-+End%(36)
Level 18: The Lotus Drops -- SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(37)
Level 20: Cloak of Darkness -- Rct-ResDam%(A), Rct-Def(39), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(39)
Level 22: Weave -- ShlWal-Def(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(39), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(40), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 24: Maneuvers -- ShlWal-Def(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(40), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(42), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(42)
Level 26: Soaring Dragon -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Hct-Dam%(43), Acc-I(43), TchofDth-Dam%(43), AchHee-ResDeb%(45)
Level 28: Tactics -- HO:Cyto(A)
Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 32: Golden Dragonfly -- Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Arm-Dam%(46), FuroftheG-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(45), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(46), AchHee-ResDeb%(46)
Level 35: Gloom -- Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), Apc-Dam%(48), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), CldSns-%Dam(50), GldJvl-Dam%(50)
Level 38: Oppressive Gloom -- HO:Endo(A)
Level 41: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 44: Afterburner -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 47: Group Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 49: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Fury 
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(15), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(17)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(17), PrfShf-EndMod/Acc(19), PrfShf-EndMod/Rchg(19)
Level 50: Degenerative Radial Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Assault Core Embodiment 
Level 50: Cardiac Core Paragon 
Level 50: Barrier Core Epiphany 
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve 
Level 0: Portal Jockey 
Level 0: Task Force Commander 
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion 
------------

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Edited May 20, 2020 by Werner

[Microcosm]

Finally got a km result I like. Went /fire scrapper, the idea being the near constant +damage from power siphon would boost burn and moonbeam, so I cycled the first three attacks in km to keep +dam up.

 

Musc/Ageless/Degen/Pyro/Assault (off), per usual

2:09

2:14

 

Will run a few more times later.

[Frosticus]

On 5/15/2020 at 3:11 PM, 'Tan said:

First time trying pylon testing.. happy with the results. 

Stone/Bio/Soul Brute - T4 Musc / T4 Degen / T4 Assault / T4 Ageless (no Lore or Judgement)

1:52 => 470DPS

1:47 => 486DPS

1:45 => 493DPS

1:40 => 511DPS

1:43 =>500DPS

Average = 492DPS

This is nice. Stone/bio was something I tinkered with a bit, but eventually lost steam in the mid 40s due to interest in stalkers taking over. But I had a feeling it could be pretty good.

[Lex Talion]

Night Widow

T4 Musculature Core / T4 Reactive Radial / T4 Assault Radial / T4 Ageless Core  (no Judgement or Lore used)

Attack chain:   Follow Up - Lunge - Slash - Eviscerate

Timer started with starting first attack. Ageless & Hasten cast when up, Mind Link cast before fight only. Assault started before fight.

 

w/ Assault (passive)

2:21   2:21   2:21   2:13   2:17   2:30   2:18   2:18   2:21   2:26   =   2:20.6 sec average   =   400.6 DPS

 

w/ Assault (active)

1:49   1:48   1:55   1:49   1:53   2:12   1:54   2:15   1:48   1:52   =   1:55.5 sec average   =   459.8 DPS