tidge

The decay of Barrier keeps it from becoming particularly overpowered. I often have Barrier as an eventual Incarnate option, but I think I mostly use it only in two cases: I'm teamed with squishy (or sub-50) characters playing in high level content (or I am that squishy) I'm playing a Mastermind (and I don't want to use Rebirth for some reason) Rebirth (Core) is my default choice on most toons (including Masterminds). I don't like to see allies fall, and it is easier to click the wide heal than to try to dump them green insps. It's a reasonable panic button for myself as well. I don't examine my PUG allies' details for defense or resist numbers, so the green bars are a better indication of how they are handling content... and it is easier on my play style to sweep in with a heal when needed rather than try to babysit such characters with Barrier, although I've done exactly that on occasion. As I try to have Endurance under control before Incarnates, I almost never take Ageless. Clarion is a low priority because of building for Defense and the other buffs are a little to invisible for my taste. I've played with enough other toons who are a little liberal with their use of Incandescence for me to favor it, but if my toon is super-stealthy I will have it available for certain missions.

As I have written elsewhere, I see Rune of Protection as a bit of a 'trap' for builds, because it relies on high Global Recharge and high defenses across the board, and is a pick requiring 3 powers. Widows certainly qualify, but there is more to a successful Widow build than just high resistances (half the time). Here is one of my Night Widow builds that relies on the healing from Unrelenting for those times when the damage is getting through. Unrelenting has worse recharge than Rune of Protection, but the Widow's scaling resistances almost always give me a chance to hit it. (Lord Recluse was the only solo that caught me off guard!). I have some other different choices in this build as well. Perma-Mind link is achieved, and I'm reasonably sure that Hasten could be added (with 2-slots @ 50+5) to also have Perma-Hasten if so desired to bring the times on Unrelenting down even further. Several of the Procs have less-than-optimal timing and can sacrifice those slots. It also looks like I was lazy on slotting or Provoke and Intimidate to get Unrelenting.

Pure anecdote: I've always felt that Streakbreaker was occurring too often for situations where my 'final chance to hit' was 95%. My understanding: If the wiki is to be believed, when the 'final chance to hit' is > 0.90, Streakbreaker should prevent a "0.95" player from missing "three times". That is, the first miss is 'natural', the second miss is 'consecutive' and then the streak is automatically broken by 'streakbreaker' (on the next attack). I spent some time with my logs (small sample size) and it looked like streakbreaker was appearing (on average) after around 20 attacks (for 95% base)... which would imply that what should have been a 5% 'final chance to miss' was more like a 10% 'final chance to miss': Streakbreaker was fighting against the (assumed) weighting of hit rolls > 0.95 which was 'flooring' the effective 'final to hit chance' at around 90%. I grew frustrated by my attempts to parse the logs, and I didn't want my amateurish attempt to study those be a lone voice of paranoia. I appreciate the folks willing to look at this more seriously.

I always recommend MMs consider adding the Overwhelming Force Damage/KB->KD on the T1s. They are 'throwing a lot of dice' and the extra control is usually useful. The Build Up buff is *stronger* on the T3, but each one of the 3 T1s has a chance to trigger it. I often see my that more than one of my T1s has it triggered.

I like Laser Beam Eyes as an extra means of grabbing Aggro, but honestly the best use of it is probably to use it as a means of getting a set bonus from a Ranged damage set. It's 'natural' recharge is something like 20 seconds, so if you don't add recharge to the power itself you can use it as a somewhat reliable means of triggering procs. If you went the 'proc-only' route, I would probably start with the Achilles Heel % -Res, and then Decimation %BuildUp. I think there are three %Negative Energy procs and a Toxic for extra damage chances.

You can convert a boosted PVP into a PVP proc, if so desired. (for teh lulz)

I think it is worth repeating 🙂 Many of us will recall that at launch, the level cap was 40. Burning three power picks to get Stamina (which was necessary to hang in combat) was an incredible amount of build overhead for *everybody*. Four extra powers (and all those slots!) by raising the cap to lvl 50, and saving us one pool and 3 power choices added so much to the character design and play experience. Just because many players take Hasten/Tough/Weave/Maneuvers doesn't mean we should give those powers out to everyone (pre-Incarnate, anyway!)

I have no issues with the post above except for one point: Are you sure you aren't seeing something like an incarnate level shift on your (I assume) Crabbermind? Your three Spiderlings should be -2 level, your two Disruptors should be -1 level, and a Patron pet will be even level (with the summoner).

... and someone else made the exact point he was going to make. Oh well, maybe next thread.

Here is some anecdotes from my builds with Hasten. I'm adding this post to try to demonstrate that a single player can have completely different reasons for picking Hasten: Several took Hasten as the level 49 pick, usually because the build 'felt complete' and +recharge is something I can't get from an inspiration (or in solo play). A few took Hasten earlier in the build (usually between levels 22-35) for the 'obvious' reasons: long-recharge thematic powers (or mechanics, like Domination) are becoming available/viable and I *want* those to be available on a faster recharge. I've seen builds take Hasten much earlier (before level 10) which I don't understand from the PoV of a 'leveling build' (how much Recharge could you need before level 20?); if a build is only playing at level 50 I can understand 'odd' choices of when powers are taken. I have two characters that don't quite fit the profile above, and I think each can be used to support whatever argument different corners want to make: I have a Fortunata build with lots of Global recharge but no Hasten. I could easily respec her into Hasten and shave some time off of her 'nuke' (Psychic Wail) but I'm pretty happy with her control/attack chain(s) as is and aside from some (presumably) faster mission speeds (one more 'nuke' per spawn?) and a perma-Mind Link, which she herself doesn't need for most content, here I don't feel the need for Hasten. This toon hasn't taken all four power pools either, so this would be a rather painless swap in the build. Perma-Hasten would be achieved if taken. I have a Scrapper who (at level 50) dropped Provoke (taken instead of Confront, for AoE) and replaced it with Hasten. I like having toons that can help out allies, and so while I miss being able to pull mobs off of teammates I explicitly wanted this toon to maximize DPS. This meant faster build ups, faster (Global) recharge on the proc powers, faster recharge on the click defenses. Perma-Hasten is achieved. I think that, for my two specific toons described above, adding an inherent 'Hasten' would simply make each more powerful (which as I wrote for the first, isn't necessary) and for the second, it's basically getting something for nothing (depending on the extent of the Global Recharge situation). I'm in the camp where I don't think it is necessary to make Hasten inherent. I made my choices and I'm comfortable with them. The original situation with Fitness doesn't apply because that was taking 3 power picks that could have been used to flesh out primary and secondary choices... all to get a single mechanic (more Recovery, from Stamina) that applies to all characters at every level.

We have achieved perma-Haten.

If the global Performance Shifter %+End is at the lowest possible level, this is true.

I almost edited my reply to say exactly this, but I thought I'd let someone else make this rebuttal. Even if the narrative doesn't stand, I have found that the T2 Protector Bots are perfectly happy to act as mules for most of the henchmen auras.

It is almost as if the development team designed the T1 henchman (or perhaps non-offense T2) to act as mules for those pet damage IOs once the MM gets to a higher level...

If you want to entertain yourself, start a new tab just to monitor combat (specifically your ToHit rolls). Read this page, especially the part about "The Streak Breaker": https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics This is partially user bias: It certainly feels like many more of my attacks are hitting thanks to STREAKBREAKER than should. I actually did some log captures to check, and I was humbled by how difficult it would be for me to prove (with any significance) that it was firing too often. Any drop in 'final to hit chance' can allow for more misses before streakbreaker helps you. I remain uncomfortable in my ignorance.

You told me (and anyone else reading this thread). I don't think the Pet IOs are a "huge waste" of slots. There certainly is an offense/defense balance, but if a MM is distributing damage taken (via bodyguard mode) every bit of resistance is helping with the amount of damage being delivered to the Mastermind. My math may be off, but I think 6 henchmen in Bodygaurd mode are taking 75% of the damage meant for the MM (in addition to any damage they might take themselves) so resisting that damage is helping keep the MM alive. I'm not oblivious to the fact that the (especially solo) game resolves around dealing damage, I'm just questioning how 'huge' the waste of slots is. I'd also point out that if a MM has a recharge-instensive pet, those pet IOs (including the /Recharge ones... presumably the least 'wasteful' choices) offer a Global Recharge bonus with 4 slots.

He got the 's' kicked out of him in the 1980s.

How about Rick Dee?

For totally selfish reasons that I can justify (COMICS!) I'd sooner have Tough be made inherent than Hasten.

Most of us agree that there aren't really any 'Billion Inf' builds... maybe if a toon has multiple builds... but WumpusRat's point about also having to take the power choices to support a PermaHasten build are also a factor. Ignoring both a secondary that can contribute to Global Recharge and individual +Recharge Procs: Hasten = 70% (I think with two slots of 50+5 it is something like 99.4%?) (+1 slot) 5xLotG = 5x7.5% = 37.5% (5 different power picks, sadly "Rune of Protection" is not one of them) 3x 2-slot Mark of Supremacy = 3x6.25% = 18.75% (3 henchmen/pet summon powers) (+3 slots) 5xVery Rare sets = 5x10% = 50% (+20 slots) and then I think you still need at least one more Global recharge bonus (could be as few as +3 more slots with the other ATO, or 4-slot a Hold) In any case, I think it would be a peculiar Mastermind build that achieved Perma-Hasten in this way. I think you can get the 5 opportunities to slot the LotG +Recharge in as few as two power pools, the henchmen slotting is likely to be sub-par, and then you have to come up with 6 powers with a LOT of extra slots. On the flip side, the Accuracy bonuses form the Very Rare sets should help the henchmen!

I am sensitive to "stacking" (by any mechanisms, for both offense and defense): Masterminds certainly should be able to solo, but they aren't supposed to be a one-man team of 7 full-kit players. There are pieces of the proposal that I like! I'll circle back, but I have one low-level concern about any individual proposal it is that it feels like shifting a few pebbles has started an avalanche. I think a Babylon 5 gif is called for, but perhaps not the one you may have expected... Circling back to the upgrade powers... as I wrote above, no matter what the AT, I expect to find value (my meaning is consideration for both "pick a power" and "slot a power") from most primary powers. Sorry T9 Tanker choices, don't expect many invitations to the dance. Masterminds have always struck me as odd because It is not just acceptable to skip 3 (or more) powers from a Primary, but that most MM builds are more effective when they do exactly that. The upgrade powers strike me as equally odd: they are vital to the primary, there are two of them, they are used very infrequently, and once taken they require zero investment. I 1-slot them with Endurance reduction, as I suspect most others do. Adding anything to the Upgrades would provide value. Personally, if they are going to be one-cast-and-done, I'd prefer them to provide a passive benefit; as Redlynne suggested, just being able to hold the MM damage enhancement auras would be a HUGE win. Your suggestion that they simply apply boosts is an alternative, but then drives many other changes that I'm not sure I would want to follow all the way to the end. I'm neutral on the idea of the stance changes... I'm either directing the henchmen to "fight, kill, die" or "absorb for me, fight, die" while I am either fighting or supporting... you can try to sell me on the idea that I need more tools in this area, but that doesn't mean I'd use them. I can write more about my personal feelings for the Mastermind AT versus others, but I will limit my written concerns (playing an AT I enjoy) to this: My experience is that the main way MM builds offer the sort of variety that comes naturally to other AT is mostly through the Secondary set and one (sometimes two) Power pool choice(s)... and that it is the chance at variety that drives interest in an AT. The lack of diversity in enhancement choices (and where to slot them) takes a lot of the fun (for me) out of Mastermind character design, more so than any perceived performance issues from the henchmen.

Redlynne has come much closer to identifying the problem and proposing a solution to the problem of enhancing Mastermind Henchmen with IO choices. There are by my count 4 non-ATO aura IOs (2x Defense, 2xResist) and 2 ATO auras. For the MMs with only 3 pets, in order to slot each one of these auras, a MM essentially has to pass on the equivalent of one full pet slot worth of IOs. I'm not sure I've even considered ever getting a 5-slot bonus from any Pet IO or Mastermind ATO set! It would be so much more straightfoward (from a build planning POV, coding issues aside) to be able to slot Henchmen boost globals in a Mastermind primary powers (such as attacks, or the upgrades). We all know that there is very little (game) mechanical reason for an MM to take the attacks, and I can't think of a good reason to invest any slots in the upgrade powers, as is. I feel like almost all of the performance issues for henchmen can be addressed with better Enhancement choices/options. Even as a type this I am willing to concede: The Purple Patch is more problematic for Masterminds than any other AT because of the level scaling (costing them both offense and defense) Some Henchmen have 'flaws' that may not be balanced (Soft Ninjas, poor single-target Bots) Some players don't invest in IOs (but such players are unlikely to be trying to punch way above their level without IOs no matter the AT) I appreciate the deep look at Masterminds, but to be honest I'd rather have more build options (i.e. enhancement choices, reasons to take different powers) to play with before anything else more radical.