Troo

Solo plays different than pylons. Which both play different than teams. There are also varying degrees of player skill and many different levels in the game. The perfect attack chain does not always apply. The perfect T4 max build attack chain definitely does not always apply. I want what you want on some level and for the most part. We should be able to use powers in our builds when not recharging, without penalty for deviating from a predetermined attack chain. Sub-optimal performance is the choice and that's okay.

'Don't use it' is a poor crutch for something that doesn't work well. It's not my fault it doesn't work well. The design has a flaw in it. It seems many feel the same (even decision makers) with varying ideas of how to address it. I am just leaning toward simpler and in the direction of the original rather than piling on more tangles. You want hard hitting fast attacks, right? Me too. You want the combo, I don't like the combo.. If I said I could live with the combo if it had one small change would you at least consider it?

If TF is activated and ET isn't ready.. there are ways that BS does get stuck. Your option is a good one. Though, how many attacks is it that now predetermined by design? That's not being in control of what attacks to use when. This is part of what some don't like and why combo sets are avoided by some players. (maybe I've repeated this waay too much) sorry for the edits after posting, that's what I do.

Here is what would get me to shut up and choke down the combo mechanic. Drum roll.. (it's not revert-the-nerf) Keep the combo mechanic. Keep Total Focus > Power Crush & keep Total Focus > Energy Transfer but remove Total Focus > Bone Smasher This lets folks choose to focus on AoE or Single Target and even switch focus mid encounter. It is simpler. Of course adjust some numbers to avoid abuse. I love disorient but I would be okay with removing the BS 100% stun. I can live with that. Full time ET doesn't seem to be an option no matter how bad some may want it and some folks really want the AoE. It seems like this might simplify the change enough to smooth over changing an existing power set in a substantial way. This is not my idea but kind of where the comments here and other threads have led. 'Something is off' 'Move EF from BS" "Is TF>ET or TF>BS a choice" Etc. Etc. There has been a little drum beat that something needs to be done.

Booooooo Back on topic. Someone is likely furiously cleaning up the last 4-5 pages.

Well played, well played. or just wait.. which is not fun. It does conserve endurance though.

Ooo someone has been busy. I was totally thinking about the TF disorient and not wanting it to miss. I saw it, I'm happy to take you at your word while thinking back to how good it was and wondering if we'd really let something like that into the wild. I also don't like to take swipes at folks doing the good work. -kudos

that's where build up or assassins strike goes silly 😃

Bingo.

Actually, I like to use Bone Smasher to try and stack additional Stun (not the 100% stun but just the 60%). The way it is set up now, Bone Smasher is stuck. Can't use BS after TF without losing the fast ET.

This is how it goes. Still trying to show folks how it we could do better, we'll see.

The beta set if anyone hasn't tried it is... different. It does NOT have a full time 1 second animation for Energy Transfer. It does have a combo mechanic that triggers off Total Focus and provides a boost to one of three options. One of the options is a 'fast' Energy Transfer. The bar was set pretty low, any improvement feels like a big improvement. I continue to believe that the same thing or better could have been accomplished without the combo mechanic. Please head to beta and give a whirl and share your thoughts. It's okay to like the fast ET. My only beefs with it is it requires TF and it is part-time.

I see. I say I agree with you. You then say we're not going to agree. Got it.

You are absolutely correct. I think you might be missing other parts of it's identity. It also a relatively simple power set. It has two big hitters. Those big hitters come at a cost in reduced AoE. Folks choose that when they select it. The current system is on live. This beta is a possible version down the road.

And now we're back to further co-oping an existing simple power set. The combo as is does not work for everyone. Should those who want to completely change it to Energy Assault trump those who lean toward trying to keep Energy Melee? It seems adding another source of focus is simply more & more in the the direction running away from what Energy Melee is/was. I get it, folks like the fast ET. ME TOO! We've been asking for a long time. Energy Melee is not Energy Assault.

It just seems off. TF > BS is just not shining for me either. I love stunning stuff but.. "Hey look what I can do... wait hold on, let me rest for a second. Just stand still, I'll be there in a second"

Excellent stuff. @aethereal which AT are you using? I might skip some to the late mid levels. I am curious to see the impact of switching the powers around.

Fun!

Yep, that is pretty much troo. It does provide a quick way to accomplish what can be a mundane task if one so chooses. (it is not mundane for all) Request: A comma in the popup window costs might be nice. Request: Formatting of the message could have been: Do you want to spend Cost to upgrade __ enhancements to level __ ? Example: Do you want to spend 10,000,000 to upgrade 50 enhancements to level 45 ?

I'll take @Abraxus for the win.

Endurance - Yes, increasing the Energy Punch endurance cost combined with encouraging more use of Whirling Hands and Total Focus adds up.

I have learned a bit from theses posts. Thank you all, fascinating seeing the different thoughts.

I wasn't shocked. I merely asked the question to clarify, that's all.

I was trying to point out a good thing. It's great that you expanded it and gave the "how to do it, if it's not working for someone'. -kudos!

2.5-ish days and 24 25 pages in.. <{[ ALERT Wall of Words ALERT ]}> Flashback time Suggestions in May (above 300+ replies and other places) I guess weren't early enough in the process to provide any valuable input or feedback. Same for comments in that Weekly Discussion 68: Energy Melee (9/13/20-9/19/20) where many folks had similar suggestions. Because, look what's is on Beta.. Gotta have more AoE. New power with targets galore. A set defining combo mechanic involving both heavy hitters. Is it re-envisioned? Absolutely. The bar was set pretty low so let's be realistic, any reasonable improvement was going to seem pretty good. (There are good things in the Beta) --- -- --- Did you know that pre-nerf (July 9, 2008): Energy Punch was a .57 or .83 second activation time, a 4 second recharge, and a 5.2 end cost. Energy Transfer was a 1 second activation time, a 20 second recharge, and a 10.2 cost. These were fantastic powers. In less than 2 seconds Pop-Boom! It was stunning. << On a high recharge build, EP recharged in about 1.5 seconds and ET was in the 7.5 seconds. Current Beta: So why the combo mechanic now? Why such a drastic change? (It may not be drastic for all, but it is for others. Just accept that. Even if it seems ridiculous to you) Surely just reverting the nerf, adding quicker Total Focus, a higher damage Whirling Hands and some other goodies sprinkled on top would perform well. Maybe too well. The combo mechanic prevents a number of things from happen. That's what it does. It's a guard rail. That allows adding another AoE (middling as it may be). --- -- --- Right now a highly tuned build could be getting exaggerated performance while a middle of the road build is good but not great. Below that, the performance continues to drop. Not a big deal for those focused on level 50 incarnates. --- -- --- My opinion: I don't think it is right to force the combo mechanic on an existing power set. I find it sub-optimal in practice, even if some scream "it's so easy". I don't like the combo mechanic. Having one choice be big stun +debuff OR that fast Energy Transfer folks are drooling over.. seriously? I promised to give it a fair shot (which I am still doing). I really like my EM/Regen who has been screwed over too many times to count. I apologize for not settling for something I don't think is good enough. Is beta awful? Heck no. Could it be better? F--- Ya! <-- We want 'F--- Ya', don't we? Based comments bouncing around many threads the ol' noggin started to point to a potential option that is not "revert the nerf" & keeps much of the beta version.. Below is a link to what would get me to shut up and choke down the combo mechanic.