How to scare away new players.

[ed fray]

Sips coffee, frowns at the empty pop-corn bowl.

 

 

[THEDarkTyger]

19 minutes ago, Budo said:

Oh cool, we're still going to keep on doing it.

 

Wonderful. 

*Sigh*

 

No. I'm done trying to explain basic human psychology to someone who is just refusing to get it. Telling someone "Just don't let it offend you!" is like telling a depressed person "Just cheer up!"

[Budo]

Okay- good. Clearly none of it worked, on their end or yours. 

I get frustration, but say your peace (piece?) and be done. Unless you'd like to talk about politics, religion and taste in food, because those also go very well when it comes to civil discourse. 

 

This is about PL'ing and how an attitude can scare people away.  I understand going off topic, but when it's just a few people going back and forth to argue, that's gonna scare people away too. Or at least annoy people who are trying to follow along with the matter at hand. 

 

I know this is the boards and that !=the game, but it shows a bit of the same thoughts on everyone's end. 

[MunkiLord]

1 minute ago, Budo said:

I get frustration, but say your peace (piece?) and be done.

It's piece. I wasn't sure either, so I looked it up because you got me curious.  https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/say-your-piece-versus-peace-usage

[THEDarkTyger]

8 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

It's piece. I wasn't sure either, so I looked it up because you got me curious.  https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/say-your-piece-versus-peace-usage

Akchooally.... *goes into a full rant on the etymology of the term* XD

[PaxArcana]

5 hours ago, TheOtherTed said:

Granted, learning when and how to react is a skill that not everyone learns (most people don't really need to learn it), but it is possible.

I feel compelled to point out, there is a wide difference between "don't let it bother you", and "don't react to it".

 

It is entirely possible to be completely infuriated by something ... and just walk away.  Not everyone, in every situation.  But it certainly is possible.

 

OTOH, just as everyone has their kryptonite ... everyone has their hotbutton issue they just can't walk away from.  Some of us have more than one.

 

This is one of mine.

---

4 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

I'm not trying to harm anyone at all. 

Unintentional harm is still harm.  And what you said, absolutely is harmful.  I've seen it used all too often by both the misguided, and the intentionally rude.  It doesn't matter which of those two you actually are, harm is still harm is still harm.

 

People get offended, even upset.  Not because they choose to, but because something offends or upsets them.  There is no choice about being upset, the only choice is how the person deals with it.

 

4 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

I totally get it people have mental illnesses and what not. 

.... and with this nonsense, I no longer believe you are merely misguided.  You are a troll, you are intentionally seeking to do harm.

 

It is not only the mentally ill who can be, and are, upset by things.  YOU TOO are upset by things.  Hearken back to the difference of opinion you and I have about copyright considerations in CoX.  You got just as steamed as anyone else in those threads.  Those of us who frown on infringing characters upset you, and our desire to see that policed offends you.  There's no shame in either .... it simply is.

 

And you had no choice about whether to be offended, upset, annoyed, irked, mildly irritated, or whatever other description you might care to put on how you felt in those discussions.  You were, whatever it was.  Whether you wanted to be, or not.

 

It is the same, when someone other than you, is upset or offended by something else.

 

4 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

Think about why the chat of some unknown, faceless jerk in a video game upset you[...]

.... because we are human beings, and those of us who are not sociopaths have certain hardwired social/psychological responses built into our central nervous systems - the product of a few million years of evolution.

 

[PaxArcana]

3 hours ago, Budo said:

This is about [...] how an attitude can scare people away. 

Yes.  And the side-topic of "can't you just choose not to be offended" is related.  Tangentially, at the very least.  Because that, too, is an attitude that can drive people away.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

I do agree the guys so called friendly advice came off as more of a your playing wrong rant imo, and coming from me that says a lot.

 

However he did make a  good point, an already established 50 is going to earn, a leveling character evena  farmer will not. And its true that after the AE farming era many a player developed a very bad taste when it came to 50s that didnt even know the zones and how to reach them.

 

My advice is even while leveling, run story arcs, and TFs for merits. DO not stress if on a TF team you feel more like a sidekick, most regular TF leaders are vets who build to solo the TF and are bringing others along more as a civil service.

 

For example until the end of today moonfire is the weekly strike target, a very easy lvl 23+ TF that runs around an hour usually. Id hop on every toon you have that can run it and knock it out on everyone, advertise and likely the team will fill, or stand by moonfire and wait till the next gathering shows up. Either way after a few toons have run through it you will have tons of merits to liquidate into inf.

 

I dont play the market nor craft myself anymore, just sell off what I dont use, and buy what I need. Merits are my income. Story arcs solo are my go to way to kill time when not in the mood to build teams and lead TFs.

 

Almost everything in coh awards reward merits and are all you really need to make plenty for a solid build. If you really want to PL and just hit 50 look for a mothership raid, join at around 35+ usually and a couple raids will see you to 50. Then go do the join a vanguard mish and do a  few more for easy merits. Seen as less offensive by the majority of the community then asking for a team to let you door sit.

[Widower]

So this whole debate on whether or not one can choose to be offended is great and all, but can we stick to the topic, and also remember that care should be taken when discussing sensitive topics?

[PaxArcana]

31 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

If you really want to PL and just hit 50 look for a mothership raid, join at around 35+ usually and a couple raids will see you to 50. Then go do the join a vanguard mish and do a  few more for easy merits.

Should you not join the Vanguard before doing the MSR, in order to get Vanguard merits for all the kills etc during the Raid?

[Sanguinesun]

2 hours ago, PaxArcana said:

Should you not join the Vanguard before doing the MSR, in order to get Vanguard merits for all the kills etc during the Raid?

Yep. I always tell new folks to do that and grabbing the badge from the mansion in nightward to enable accessing midnighters for ITF too.

Edited September 23, 2019 by Sanguinesun

[Without_Pause]

16 hours ago, Insomm said:

The main thing I am struggling with is doing some of the TFs. I have a Kin/Ice Defender with simple crafted IOs slotted through most of his powers (several of which are still level 25).
If I get into the content solo, there are enemies (usually AVs) which I just can't get through.

When I get into it with other people, either they blow through everything or... Well, they still blow through everything, but at higher difficulties I spend most of the time licking the floor.

I ran a Kin as my main on live. Run teams even if they are radio missions. Since you consider yourself still a newbie, learn how to build teams. Not everything needs to be TF or +4 content. Part of the reason your teammates are blowing through content is due to the fact you should be putting them at damage cap and giving them +recharge and +end. I often felt like I was getting a free ride on teams since we could blow though content at such a pace. If you are doing heavy amount of TFs, then that's where heavier Incarnate teams are running. Build teams and run at +2. Say all levels welcome. This opens up as an example people being in their 30s joining. Kins benefit from having melee/tanks and controllers/doms on a team. Ice can survive from a distance so try to do that and going in closer range as needed as mezz is a high issue late game as you have noticed. Make sure to have purples and break frees on hand as you will likely need them. Learn what mobs do what. Don't sweat death so much. Debt is merely a badge. You are new. It is okay to mess up and feel underpowered compared to other people. There are times where some of my builds or just me in general feel underpowered and I've played for roughly 8 years. 

 

FYI, back on live I leveled a En/en blaster to 41 without a death and no Med pool. No 2x XP back then either. Run the kind of teams you want and learn.

[DR_Mechano]

9 hours ago, PaxArcana said:

I feel compelled to point out, there is a wide difference between "don't let it bother you", and "don't react to it".

 

It is entirely possible to be completely infuriated by something ... and just walk away.  Not everyone, in every situation.  But it certainly is possible.

 

OTOH, just as everyone has their kryptonite ... everyone has their hotbutton issue they just can't walk away from.  Some of us have more than one.

 

This is one of mine.

---

 

This.

 

One time at my old job, it was the Christmas period, we were short staffed and one of the temps was put on my Aisle part way through my shift. He had, at numerous times, shown he didn't care and worked as slow as possible (I get he's a Christmas temp and knows he's losing his job no matter what in like four weeks so why bother but come on man) but management had spoken to him and various other people had pointed out he was kind of screwing over whoever he was working with by doing it (if you finished your jobs EARLY it meant you could sort of hide away out back and do nothing for like the last hour). Now I had good faith that he'd taken the message and decided to work so I leave him be and start work down the other end about an hour goes by, I've nearly finished that section and I look down to see he has barely moved. Gritting my teeth I walk over to the manager and ask for my lunch break, the management asks me why since it's a lot earlier in the shift than I normally take it (like 3 hours in, I normally take my lunch break like 4 and a half hours in) and my response was.

 

"Because If I have to deal with X I'm probably going to end up smacking him the face...and I don't want to be fired and you probably don't want the paperwork, I'm going for a smoke..."

 

I'm normally a really chill person and very rarely get angry but for some reason the way the temp was acting just got my goat, like stole the goat and really ran with it. I had to walk away because I knew the consequences of if I didn't, guessing he was my Kryptonite.

[Colder]

Yeah he was just really opinionated is all. Shrug it off \ignore \em dance

[Rodumas]

You are under no obligation to explain your actions, how you enjoy the game and how you choose to level to anyone besides, perhaps, the devs. But that is a conversation that will likely take place in private per email or forum or discord. When you engaged this person trying to explain or defend your position, you gave that person an opening. They sensed they had your ear.

Unsolicited advice can go either of two ways: You take it and work with it, or you shrug it off and shut down the unwanted flow of information that does nothing to your quality of enjoyment. I had a guy once pm me during a lmbda about how I should learn to play the game because I decided to stop ( after getting 2 boxes of grenades already) and help out another teammate who had a low life bar because they had a mob on them. When I noticed that this fact was a non factor for this idiot, I told him to concentrate on playing the game instead of harrassing me in pm's and fuck off, put him on ignore and went about my business. My time is precious to me, so there is a zero tolerance policy, which I can modify at any point in time as I choose fit, when it comes to other people's brainfart shenanigans.

Not today, Satan. Not Today.


P.S.  You handled yourself quite well though :)

Edited September 23, 2019 by Rodumas

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

15 hours ago, PaxArcana said:

Should you not join the Vanguard before doing the MSR, in order to get Vanguard merits for all the kills etc during the Raid?

Old man brain got a touch fuzzy for some reason I was thinking you couldnt start the vanguard arcs till the same lvl range as the lady grey TF.

[Murcielago]

I was hoping OP was soliciting ways to scare away new players. /s

 

[Oubliette_Red]

34 minutes ago, Murcielago said:

I was hoping OP was soliciting ways to scare away new players. /s

Same here. I figure if this doesn't...

 

...nothing will.

[Troo]

On 9/21/2019 at 2:12 PM, Insomm said:

I feel at an impasse, where I can't do the content I want to do with my character, and some people seem to judge specific methods of creating progress for a character. While I do play the game only to enjoy myself, having someone tell me I am doing it wrong just makes me want to play another game where I won't be told as such, regardless of whether I care about what they think or not.

Eesh. If we are on at the same time I'd be happy provide some assistance. Feel free to shoot an in-game tell.

 

That said, I can see in the chat you posted where things may have gone wrong, at least a couple times. It looks like the person was trying to help but had trouble for one reason or another.

Some of that trouble seems to stem from a newbie 50 needing 200 million before they can play their toon.

 

There is no 'right way' to play.

If it's not fun at level 20-26, it might not be fun at level 50+100.

[Trademarked Name]

I had someone threaten to report me because I WOULDN'T Farm for them. <shrug>
I was in AE at a terminal working on my own story mish and they kept going "hey. C'mon let me join you". I was on my fire/fire tank but wasn't actually doing a mish. Just working in AE crafting enemies and objectives. I didn't respond (mostly because I can't see the chat when I'm in AE creator). But when I got out I could see the repetitive pleas (I was in there for about an hour) and all I could think was That person probably could have gained a level or two if they had just solo'd through some story arcs in zones at their current level at that time. Instead you've been sitting in AE for an hour asking someone who is effectively AFK to do it for you. I didn't say it, but felt sad for the player at that level of...yes. I will say it..... Laziness.

But then to see that they were going to REPORT me for being rude and not responding to them or allowing them to door sit was just mind blowing to me.

I shouldn't be surprised. It sort of reminds me of family I have on welfare. Some of whom haven't worked in 15 years, not because they CAN'T work, but because they don't see why they SHOULD work when there are government programs that pay for everything that they want/need. One of whom openly lamented that he didn't find out about welfare and how much you can get until later in life. And he would have hopped on the dole in his 20's if he'd known the system existed back then. And after years of this it has warped their sense of reality to my perspective. They have become "entitled". If they ask you to do something (i realize I'm a relative but the attitude is there no matter who you are), and you refuse you are a horrible person. It doesn't matter if you had other plans or they could just as easily do it themselves, or it would put you in a bad position, but they went out of their way to "ask you nicely". Therefore by the laws of social graces you MUST do for them. And when you talk to them all they do is complain and tell you annecdotes about all the people who have "Wronged" them because they refused their request for favors/money/tasks when they "asked nicely". I have since learned that "asking nicely" is a form of payment to them. "I wasn't rude or tell you that you HAD to do it, therefore you OWE ME!" <-is the attitude that they have. 

 

Personally, I usually just ignore door sitter requests. If I'm farming, I'm farming to get XPs and drops to garner more INF for my other toons, or buy IOs/salvage for the base.) Tag-alongs detract from your INSP drops (making fire farming more aggressive keyboard work) AND fewer drops for yourself to cash in. If I do let people tag along it's usually people from my SG, and only 1 at a time. Otherwise It's not a very efficient use of my time or theirs. I never knew about farming in Live. But had fellow SG members back then ask me to join AE mishes to help me level. I didn't really know what was going on. Just that theywould say "If you die, you can just hang back. You don't have to keep rezing". But I was one loan terrible toon tagging along with 7 CoH Gods (in my eyes) that were literally obliterating wave after wave of lev 50+ enemies that blotted out the horizon. And I would keep rezing and dying repetitively because I thought was supposed to be also trying to kill the mobs.

 

Since then, I learned what farming and door sitting are. And I HAVE let people farm for me (people offered and I took them up on it <-shout out to Firemaster and Thudster), but I could now tell that they are going out of their way as a solo person farming for multiple door sitters. And I can see by my XP rate and drops I get that it's got to be detracting from their gain.  I've also offered to let SG members door sit and told them "You can go watch TV or do something else. Just come back every 10 minutes to see if you need to exit and switch rooms." one such individual was like "no. I feel bad leaving you, so I'm going to chat with you while you work." And even though that was nice of them to try to be considerate, I can't shoot fireballs, heal and gobble Inspires AND chat very effectively. Soo...Nice of you, but once again...not efficient.

 

I also found out with my glass canon, If you have a level 50, you can go to Dark Astoria and get some pretty good XP/INF/Drops just street sweeping solo. I prefer to be on teams and do door mishes to soloing though. Yet if I'm level 50, I wouldn't ask to door sit. That doesn't seem like a productive use of your time.  

And if you're asking to door sit a low level toon to get INF to buy stuff for your 50, you REALLY aren't using your time effectively. What INF is a level 5 or 10 toon making door sitting in an hour? It can't be what a 50 does street sweeping can it?

 

So, though I think the chat was a bit heated, I don't really see it as being particularly abusive.

 

[ShardWarrior]

4 minutes ago, Rocketeur said:

But then to see that they were going to REPORT me for being rude and not responding to them or allowing them to door sit was just mind blowing to me.

Are you sure they weren't just trying to get a rise out of you? 

[Trademarked Name]

Possibly. I just assumed it was a kid that didn't know any better then to whine and when that didn't work become threatening as they could comprehend of doing. The fact that I was in front of the AE computer screen for that long, I figured would have given a veteran user a clue to what I was doing. 10 year olds can log in just as much as a 70 year old. But it was a lot of time spent dedicated to a troll and I never did respond to them.

 

[Prototech]

Definitely some douchey dudes in the community, not too common from what I see though. I have to watch out for the opposite, as you can see in this thread there are members in the community who's real life can be shaken to the core if you say the wrong thing.

 

Be really careful talking in chat, the most innocent debate or challenge can turn into some mental health nightmare for certain individuals in the community.

[ShardWarrior]

9 minutes ago, Prototech said:

Definitely some douchey dudes in the community, not too common from what I see though. I have to watch out for the opposite, as you can see in this thread there are members in the community who's real life can be shaken to the core if you say the wrong thing.

 

Be really careful talking in chat, the most innocent debate or challenge can turn into some mental health nightmare for certain individuals in the community.

No lie - I've seen chat channels that actually require members to post "trigger warnings" before discussing certain topics. 

[PaxArcana]

41 minutes ago, Rocketeur said:

welfare

Point of clarification:

(a) Welfare is lifetime-limited to 3 years, and has been since the mid-90's.  Therefor, your family must be on either SSI, or even full Social Security Disability.

(b) you cannot get SSI or SSDI just because you don't want to work.  You have to have a medically-proven disability, that prevents you from earning a set amount (called "Substantial Gainful Activity", which in 2019 is $1,220/month gross).

 

(c) you cannot stay on SSI or SSDI, unless your disability continues to prevent you from working.

 

Just because you don't see their disability, doesn't mean it isn't real.

(I myself am on permanent disability, but my disability isn't obvious to people who haven't known me for years, so I get that same kind of "you just don't WANT to work" attitude all the time.)