Doc_Scorpion Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 2 hours ago, Haijinx said: One thing they need is a taunt aura in Dwarf form. /jranger Unofficial Homecoming Wiki - Paragon Wiki updated for Homecoming! Your contributions are welcome! (Not the owner/operator - just a fan who wants to spread the word.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haijinx Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, Doc_Scorpion said: /jranger Even scrappers get taunt auras in their newer sets. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanden Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 What do Scrappers need taunt auras for? No reason for them to have them. A Cheat Sheet for efficient Endurance Recovery slotting Invention Set Designer Tool Spreadsheet with every Ancillary Power Pool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haijinx Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Vanden said: What do Scrappers need taunt auras for? No reason for them to have them. Invul has one also, which is an old set. So some scrappers have always had them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siolfir Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, Vanden said: What do Scrappers need taunt auras for? No reason for them to have them. Except for, I dunno, maximizing the utility of most of those taunt auras since most of them scale based on the number of targets affected, grouping mobs together for more efficient AoE usage, and possibly, just maybe, keeping aggro off of more squishy ATs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Developer Captain Powerhouse Posted October 22, 2019 Author Developer Share Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, siolfir said: Except for, I dunno, maximizing the utility of most of those That is the reason some of the auras have them, although it’s arguable they ever need the full benefit of a saturated empowering aura. 13 minutes ago, siolfir said: grouping mobs together for more efficient AoE usage, And this is the reason they should not have them. In a “fair” world, the scrapper should not have that easy of a time herding foes and optimizing AoE on their own. And they are not meant to hold aggro from multiple foes. Edited October 22, 2019 by Captain Powerhouse 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haijinx Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 47 minutes ago, Captain Powerhouse said: That is the reason some of the auras have them, although it’s arguable they ever need the full benefit of a saturated empowering aura. And this is the reason they should not have them. In a “fair” world, the scrapper should not have that easy of a time herding foes and optimizing AoE on their own. And they are not meant to hold aggro from multiple foes. Leading back to the Kheldian Dwarf suggestion, since those are intended to hold Aggro on multiple foes. Sort of the weakest of the 3 "tank" archetypes. Right now they definitely are not #3 for the tank role. That would go to scrappers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demon Shell Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 4 hours ago, Haijinx said: One thing they need is a taunt aura in Dwarf form. 2 hours ago, Doc_Scorpion said: /jranger 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golstat2003 Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 16 minutes ago, Demon Shell said: I’ve actually found this listing a bit funny. Since Kheldians don’t have to take dwarf form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanden Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 1 minute ago, golstat2003 said: I’ve actually found this listing a bit funny. Since Kheldians don’t have to take dwarf form. They can still end up fairly tanky, depending on the teammates they get. 1 A Cheat Sheet for efficient Endurance Recovery slotting Invention Set Designer Tool Spreadsheet with every Ancillary Power Pool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Developer Captain Powerhouse Posted October 23, 2019 Author Developer Share Posted October 23, 2019 11 minutes ago, golstat2003 said: I’ve actually found this listing a bit funny. Since Kheldians don’t have to take dwarf form. One of many reasons why any tanking improvement will be locked exclusively to having the dwarf form (and it being active.) 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golstat2003 Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Makes sense to me CP 😊 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haijinx Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 You could possibly put an aura into the Dwarf power itself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csr Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 3 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said: And this is the reason they should not have them. In a “fair” world, the scrapper should not have that easy of a time herding foes and optimizing AoE on their own. And they are not meant to hold aggro from multiple foes. Ugh. Let's not start trying to cram ATs back into their skinny jeans. It won't be a pretty sight. There are 13 Scrapper secondaries, 5 have taunt auras (Bio, Invuln, Rad, Shield and Willpower - all on scaling self-buff powers), 4 more have damage auras (Dark, Electric, Fiery and Ice) and 4 have neither (Energy, Ninjutsu, Regen and SR). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macskull Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 1 minute ago, csr said: Ugh. Let's not start trying to cram ATs back into their skinny jeans. It won't be a pretty sight. There are 13 Scrapper secondaries, 5 have taunt auras (Bio, Invuln, Rad, Shield and Willpower - all on scaling self-buff powers), 4 more have damage auras (Dark, Electric, Fiery and Ice) and 4 have neither (Energy, Ninjutsu, Regen and SR). Energy's Entropic Aura has a taunt component. "If you can read this, I've failed as a developer." -- Caretaker Proc information and chance calculator spreadsheet (last updated 15APR24) Player numbers graph (updated every 15 minutes) Graph readme @macskull/@Not Mac | Twitch | Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrmidon Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 3 hours ago, Haijinx said: You could possibly put an aura into the Dwarf power itself. So long as it isn’t better than the Willpower equivalent. Playing CoX is it’s own reward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haijinx Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 26 minutes ago, Myrmidon said: So long as it isn’t better than the Willpower equivalent. The Willpower Aura needs buffed, at least for Tankers and Brutes. The lame excuse for it "WP is too strong" is meaningless with the current state of IOs, Newer sets like Shield, Rad and Bio, etc. The Dwarf Aura wouldn't need to be that good. Maybe as good as WP is now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreadShinobi Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 5 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said: That is the reason some of the auras have them, although it’s arguable they ever need the full benefit of a saturated empowering aura. And this is the reason they should not have them. In a “fair” world, the scrapper should not have that easy of a time herding foes and optimizing AoE on their own. And they are not meant to hold aggro from multiple foes. Interesting how you define that circumstance, although for me personally I would not be playing my scrapper if he wasn't able to main tank for teams like he does. I consider the taunt attribute in against all odds one of the most defining attributes of shield defense, and while the other things that shield offers are nice: easy softcap defenses, decent baseline resists, +max hp, self damage buff, and dat shield charge, I absolutely wouldn't be playing the set or the character if it didn't hold aggro like it does. I'd also say it's why elec and dark armor and fiery aura sets are so much rarer than they could be because not having a bit of glue on a melee character can range from being awkward, to a pain, to a complete headache. Currently on fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanden Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 3 hours ago, csr said: Ugh. Let's not start trying to cram ATs back into their skinny jeans. It won't be a pretty sight. There are 13 Scrapper secondaries, 5 have taunt auras (Bio, Invuln, Rad, Shield and Willpower - all on scaling self-buff powers), 4 more have damage auras (Dark, Electric, Fiery and Ice) and 4 have neither (Energy, Ninjutsu, Regen and SR). Listing the secondaries that have or don't have taunt auras for Scrappers doesn't really prove anything one way or the other. 3 hours ago, macskull said: Energy's Entropic Aura has a taunt component. Not according to the in-game info. A Cheat Sheet for efficient Endurance Recovery slotting Invention Set Designer Tool Spreadsheet with every Ancillary Power Pool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Idiot Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 The ingame info is wrong for it then, because it definitely does have a taunt component just like all similar powers with buffs that scale on the number of nearby foes do. Either that or the power is broken because if it doesn't have a taunt, it should have one. When life gives you lemonade, make lemons. Life will be all like "What?" [Admin] Emperor Marcus Cole: STOP! [Admin] Emperor Marcus Cole: WAIT ONE SECOND! [Admin] Emperor Marcus Cole: WHAT IS A SEAGULL DOING ON MY THRONE!?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryuplaneswalker Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Vanden said: Not according to the in-game info. It was added in at some point to buff the set and give it an aggro aura in order for Brutes to be able to tank with it more effectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golstat2003 Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 3 hours ago, DreadShinobi said: Interesting how you define that circumstance, although for me personally I would not be playing my scrapper if he wasn't able to main tank for teams like he does. I consider the taunt attribute in against all odds one of the most defining attributes of shield defense, and while the other things that shield offers are nice: easy softcap defenses, decent baseline resists, +max hp, self damage buff, and dat shield charge, I absolutely wouldn't be playing the set or the character if it didn't hold aggro like it does. I'd also say it's why elec and dark armor and fiery aura sets are so much rarer than they could be because not having a bit of glue on a melee character can range from being awkward, to a pain, to a complete headache. I’d argue the problem with dark armor is its end consumption Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Replacement Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) Well, I guess this thread has ran its intended course with even CP willing to discuss tanking in a more meta capacity, so I guess I won't feel bad about saying: I know I'm strange, but I actually want the scrapper ST taunt to be the strongest in the game. I like the idea of being able to grab one target for sure, even off a (struggling) Tanker. It's likely too complicated, but I'd also love if Confront, et al, summoned a hostile, invisible pseudopet (my phone knows that word. Thanks, HC community!) that stayed directly on top of the scrapper for a while - basically, a mechanism to +1 all powers that scale with nearby enemies, to give scrappers a light incentive to take and use the power. Edited October 23, 2019 by Replacement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golstat2003 Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, Replacement said: Well, I guess this thread has ran its intended course with even CP willing to discuss tanking in a more meta capacity, so I guess I won't feel bad about saying: I know I'm strange, but I actually want the scrapper ST taunt to be the strongest in the game. I like the idea of being able to grab one target for sure, even off a (struggling) Tanker. It's likely too complicated, but I'd also love if Confront, et al, summoned a hostile, invisible pseudopet (my phone knows that word. Thanks, HC community!) that stayed directly on top of the scrapper for a while - basically, a mechanism to +1 all powers that scale with nearby enemies, to give scrappers a light incentive to take and use the power. But . . . Why? Why should a Scrapper be able to ever out taunt a tank? Not a challenge, just seriously curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StratoNexus Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, golstat2003 said: But . . . Why? Why should a Scrapper be able to ever out taunt a tank? Not a challenge, just seriously curious. Because as the off-tank in the group, you need a way to take some of the aggro off the main tank sometimes? In the BAF there is even an enemy mechanic that strongly encourages rotating aggro, although in that case I would hope the higher damage scrappers deal would allow the taunt effect to work pretty well. It has been many years, but I seem to remember my Kat/Invun scrapper getting sequestered often enough. IIRC, taunt magnifies the "damage felt" on aggro lists. So if a scrapper is seriously outdamaging a Tanker (as one would expect they should be), using Confront should pull the aggro in most cases. That said, if you are trying to pull an enemy off a Tanker that you have not been hitting (which is a common enough desire as an off-tank), that will likely not work so well. Edited October 23, 2019 by StratoNexus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts