I am sure this is unpopular, but I miss the city life

[GM Sijin]

Let's get back and stay on topic. That's less of a suggestion and more of a "suggestion".

 

I'll start:

On 10/17/2019 at 2:39 PM, arkieboy72472 said:

1. Get rid of the ability to purchase the portable field craft table. You have to earn it.

The option to purchase it plays an important role: Removing currency from the economy. One might be inclined to assume that people would go out of their way to earn it without the option to buy it, but in practice this is absolutely not true for everyone. I'd wager the majority that buy a larger number of these on their accounts would be the least likely to actually go out of their way to earn it on all those characters. For this reason alone this is very unlikely to change.

 

On 10/17/2019 at 2:39 PM, arkieboy72472 said:

4. The only way to get the ouroborus power is to earn it but make the way to go about doing it obvious.

Considering the portal cannot be purchased, I'll assume what you mean by this is that the option to earn the power via the exploration badge should be removed. I'm not sure how this would achieve the goal you're looking for, as it would primarily make Ouroboros less populated unless the method of earning it was both level agnostic (at least from 14-50) and borderline trivially easy. In which case this would actually likely result in less player interaction, since people often ask others to help them by opening a portal so they can get it.

 

The rest of the suggestions seem to be geared entirely on making the city seem more alive.

 

Given that you aren't likely to interact with any of the players that would be in these locations in any capacity, would not NPCs serve the same role? Perhaps that is a direction the suggestion could go that would be far less unpopular and ultimately less damaging to the Homecoming community population. (The genie is out of the bottle, putting it back in would be highly controversial and absolutely would cause some people to quit the game/move to other severs.)

[arkieboy72472]

So I have read all this and I get it. All valid points and apparently all of my suggestions were ass. I get it. All I was longing for was the way things used to be. That ship has sailed. Everything is easy access or a slash command now. It is all great and I was just a old man telling people to get off my lawn.

 

As for my original points:

 

1) Leave the Ouro Portal alone. I concede that idea.

 

2) The crafting table does remove money from the economy and i like the economy so screw that idea. Plus she is the pay 2 win lady for a reason, right? However, if you are going to have her, at least consider adding the odd things like Amy's Ward, The Iron Sword, and The Bow and Arrows all from Croatoa plus whatever odds and ends out there to be earned, or is that different?

 

3) While I am on that...we are all for ease of use here, yet we have 2 Task Forces that are locked down by an arc you have to complete? Heck, you still have to do the patron power arcs, right? Why are we all about QoL, but not doing it all of the way? I guess it is either on a to do list by our dev's, or cognitive dissonance.

 

Why balance any power sets and powers. Just leave well enough alone, right? Heaven forbid the player base ask the powers that be for balance and improvements. I am sorry if this all comes across as ungrateful, but then again, I got the /jranger from a bunch of grumpy gusses, so why not?

 

I am thankful for the game, but I miss how it used to be. I guess leave both the easy and alternate options for people. I say this as someone who hypocritically hated tip and morality missions and LOVES null the gull. Please add KB to KD! 🙂

 

Also, since we spun off in a few different directions - I don't care one way or another about AE. I don't like it, but I like testing my guys at the highest limits, I like very rare drops, and I like the economy. Just because people abuse it, doesn't mean it is bad. People must forget the days of loading farms in PI, where all chat was was people filling up for battle maiden farms, before things like 4XP where you had to get filler folks. AE is its own thing and is self contained and nerfed/balanced and serves a purpose both good and bad. It doesn't hurt anything, and if anything it helps. It doesn't affect me in this game. If I can't pick and choose how to add a scene or ambiance to the game, why take away AE? Ultimately people play how they like, whether it is City of Min/Max, City of Stock Market, City of Farm, or City of 2 hours after your kids bedtime after a long day when you want to just unwind and have a nostalgia fix because you are 42 and this is your only alone time.

 

I may have skipped my other dumb ideas, but we all get the point I was after. Yall have a good day. I am going to log on later and run my thousandth ITF because it makes me happy to see how fast and efficient I can slaughter cimeroans on +4/8 with a pug of who cares.

 

EDIT: added stuff.

Edited October 19, 2019 by arkieboy72472

[arkieboy72472]

"the suggestions seem to be geared entirely on making the city seem more alive."

 

Yes. That was the goal of the entire post. Not all ideas were good ones or well thought through, but yes.

[biostem]

19 minutes ago, arkieboy72472 said:

Plus she is the pay 2 win lady for a reason, right?

You understand that her being labeled as "P2W" is meant to be tongue-in-cheek, given that no one is actually paying any real money to her, yes?  Sure, you pay influence or infamy for some of the items she has for sale, but as previously mentioned, that is more about removing money from the in-game economy...

[Haijinx]

I just think this is nostalgia for how MMOs used to be, tbh. They aren't like that anymore.  We shouldn't expect the developers to de-modernize the game.  Seems silly.

 

The current trends are away from immersion, away from player concentrations, towards convenience, towards ability to solo and play casually. 

 

This has been going on for 20 years.  I mean people don't have to like it.  I don't like it either.  But this is how it is.   

[biostem]

28 minutes ago, Disruptor said:

My number one wish CoH wise is for a issue 1 server or even a progression server that starts at i1 and slowly progresses, every 3 months the next issue is released. Meaning you get to issue 4 at the end of the first year, I want that.

Good news!  The game code is out there in the wild, now;  Setup your own server and establish whatever rules you want!

[GM Sijin]

1 hour ago, arkieboy72472 said:

"the suggestions seem to be geared entirely on making the city seem more alive."

 

Yes. That was the goal of the entire post. Not all ideas were good ones or well thought through, but yes.

FWIW I, too, miss the feeling of an lively city with players moving about more visibly. But I also find the gameplay objectively more enjoyable than it was 'back in the day'.

 

The challenge here is: How do you encourage players to move about the world in a way that doesn't force tedium for the sake of tedium? (An MMO specialty, admittedly.)

Zone events is arguably the biggest way currently, though has plenty of flaws and are rather temporary.

[ninja surprise]

2 hours ago, arkieboy72472 said:

I am thankful for the game, but I miss how it used to be. 

By "used to be" do you really mean "lots of grinding" or "heavily populated?"

 

If you're looking for population are you on the busiest server? You'll still never see as many people as Freedom had during the heydays, but there's a decent number of players online sometimes.

[Haijinx]

18 minutes ago, GM Sijin said:

FWIW I, too, miss the feeling of an lively city with players moving about more visibly. But I also find the gameplay objectively more enjoyable than it was 'back in the day'.

 

The challenge here is: How do you encourage players to move about the world in a way that doesn't force tedium for the sake of tedium? (An MMO specialty, admittedly.)

Zone events is arguably the biggest way currently, though has plenty of flaws and are rather temporary.

Hey for what its worth at least Homecoming City of Heroes has a nice heaping helping of Nostalgia already baked in.  

 

And people still team up for more than 5 minutes.  

 

So I think its not bad at all.  

[EmmySky]

If you're on Indom you may see my MM leading her pack of wolves and lions around as a panther or coyote...I may be stupid but I enjoy doing that.

[arkieboy72472]

3 hours ago, biostem said:

You understand that her being labeled as "P2W" is meant to be tongue-in-cheek, given that no one is actually paying any real money to her, yes?  Sure, you pay influence or infamy for some of the items she has for sale, but as previously mentioned, that is more about removing money from the in-game economy...

I know. It was more a joke.

[Megajoule]

4 hours ago, arkieboy72472 said:

So I have read all this and I get it. All valid points and apparently all of my suggestions were ass. I get it. All I was longing for was the way things used to be. That ship has sailed. Everything is easy access or a slash command now. It is all great and I was just a old man telling people to get off my lawn.

 

Quote

Why balance any power sets and powers. Just leave well enough alone, right? Heaven forbid the player base ask the powers that be for balance and improvements. I am sorry if this all comes across as ungrateful, but then again, I got the /jranger from a bunch of grumpy gusses, so why not?

 

Quote

I may have skipped my other dumb ideas, but we all get the point I was after. Yall have a good day. I am going to log on later and run my thousandth ITF because it makes me happy to see how fast and efficient I can slaughter cimeroans on +4/8 with a pug of who cares.

Hi, remember me?  Person of similar vintage in same boat?  I have a follow-up suggestion for you, which is entirely serious:  ditch the self-pitying backhanded passive-aggressive "well I just wanted to make things better, you sure showed me, yep I'm a big ol' dum dum."  Process your hurt feelings, then come back to the table with a response that's sincere, not trying to be sarcastic and clever and take pokes at your critics while pretending you aren't.  Act our age.

 

As an example, I'll show you the respect of treating your actual new ideas seriously.

(2)  I'm down with putting the Croatoa temp powers in with the rest.  I suspect they were left out simply because nobody thinks much of Croatoa (I sure don't) except maybe around this time of year.

 

(3)  I'm good with unlocking those TFs also.  See above re "they probably just forgot Croatoa content exists".

 

As for game balance, I'm one of those that thinks this is a good thing to have in general, even if people are having fun with the overperforming sets and don't want them changed.  That's a discussion that is probably beyond the scope of this thread, however, and definitely one where I sometimes have to remind myself to not get upset or emotionally invested in the argument.

 

Acknowledging your own inconsistency is good.  I try to do that myself.  It's difficult sometimes to not be irritated and defensive when someone else points it out, but I do believe that awareness is better than ignorance.  If the awareness is that I'm sometimes often imperfect, guess what, we all are.

 

I do remember those things you reference.  Heck, I used to be pretty solidly against AE myself; I believed that the only proper use of it was for crafting and telling stories, and deplored farming and "exploits".  Ten years later, I find myself not caring as much, or at all.  Turns out that time doesn't just take away things and people we loved; it also grants wisdom and perspective, if we let it.

 

That's all I have to say, for now.

 

Edited October 20, 2019 by Megajoule

[Tahliah]

I can see the OP's point, and to a degree, I've also been a bit resistant to SOME of the easy.  For myself.  So I've made it a point to work on the fieldcrafter the old-fashioned way (still don't have it, but when I finally get it, I'll be so happy!!), to run some of my toons through cape "unlocks" (yes, oddly, I missed that . . . but not enough to do it on every single toon), and I'll sometimes go to WW's just because I want to.  There are usually people there, especially in AP, but it's not like WW's was jam-packed on live, either, and when it was, it was mostly annoying (auras, pets, auto-powers--including my own auto-hasten, and etc.).  I even ran the Montague arc to get the MIdnighter badge.  Once.  It was enough. 

 

Choosing to do these things is fun and good.  Forcing everyone to go back is neither fun nor good.  I'm not building community by earning my fieldcrafter or by going to WW's.  As others have noted, no one notices (in a good way) what's going on around them at WW's (or doing a respec when you can't see anyone, anyway).  What's to be gained by taking these things away from people?  I guess that's the part of these proposals I don't quite get.  So everyone has to go to WW's and . . . what?  You get to see people at WW's?  What about that is good for you?  Is it just seeing people?  I see them all the time all over the City.  If you're lonely, go sit in AP for a while, it's always crowded (quite often to the point of lag) or head over to Talos or PI, both zones are always hopping, esp. PI with the Halloween event going on.  There are plenty of places you can go to see people, so rather than force the people to come to you, why not head over to where they are?

 

As to the DFB taking people out of the Hollow and KR . . . doesn't that seem to by dying down a bit now that we've all been back a while (and presumably have rebuilt at least our mains) and with the xp nerf?  I am always seeing LFG messages for Frostfire in particular and the Hollows in general.  I don't see much call for KR, but I pretty much avoided KR on live, too, though I did go there to get my radio (for some reason).  If you want to run KR arcs, just post to LFG, and I'm sure that people will join you. 

 

I think it was @Megajoulewho said it best.  To paraphrase, the game has changed, and while we can go home again (thankfully), it's not going to be exactly the same.  What ever is?  That said, I've heard that there are servers out there that are running COX pretty close to how it was at shutdown.  Maybe that's your bag?  Me?  I'm happy here at Homecoming and will continue to add slog for myself when I want it and not try to force everyone else to join me in my masochism.  😇 

 

But yeah, I will secretly appreciate my fieldcrafter more for having earned it.  Do I want to do that on every toon?  Um, no.  I'll be buying them after this first one.  Heck, on live, I would log out and craft on my main rather than earn it on other toons.  It was easier to switch, craft (usually in WWs so I could ignore every person there while I focused on buying what I needed to craft for my alts), drop off the enh at base or email them, then log back into the alt.  You know, I am so very glad those days are over!

 

I wonder sometimes if we remember things as they really were or if we might sometimes romanticize them?  Was earning a fieldcrafter really something people did on numerous toons? Or just on their badger and/or main?  And if they did and still want to, they still can!  That's the good thing about HC, they've given us options.  I like options.  A lot.

[Bionic_Flea]

I earned field crafter once on live and once here and I refuse to do it again.  I find it to be a tedious waste of time and effort to craft a bunch of stuff that I have to delete because no one buys them, or sell them for a pittance just to have enough room to sell the next batch.  I do, however, buy the worktable for every other character I make, along with all the teleporters, a jetpack, and a number of other temp powers.  All that stuff is super convenient to have and saves me time.

 

But I also realize that there has been a lot of power creep along with  . . . let's call it convenience creep.  I am much more concerned with power creep than convenience creep.  I think that power creep is what makes this game easy.

 

I also think that running TFs and arcs with the Ouro restrictions (no travel powers, players debuffed, players buffed, etc.) should give something else beyond a badge for doing it the first time.

[FDR's Think Tank]

You know, the simple solution is to make the next Server to open a "Hardcore" mode server. Anything that people want as far as rollbacks to Convenience can be done there, you can remove the P2W Stores, you can put in limitations to your hearts content. If it's the official Hardcore Server, people understand that by going there, they are agreeing to have less convenience in game. You could even add fun little events where the Monorail might be shut down to specific areas, perhaps areas having events, for security. You'd bring back Taxi Bot characters, and how!

 

On a different note...

 

I am also excited by the idea of Making Perez Park a Functional traveled place again... why not sell real estate around the park? You could bring back Prestige and have it so major Super Groups could bid for physical locations at the Park so they aren't just a shared Portal. People could visit the lobby of Supergroups who have a building and get a guided tour with references to team member's backstories. It would be big with the RP community, I bet.

 

It would be really neat to have Team Logos adorning the buildings and perhaps some sprucing up..., Although I can't think of what the Villain's version would be....

 

Edit idea: Would it be impossible for Arachnos to be part of the effort to rebuild around Perez Park? It could be a PvPlite Zone where Heroes and Villains can't attack each other, but they can attack the opposing Longbow/Arachnos Security Patrols... whichever applies. How many Patrols there are of each is determined by building ownership, which is determined by the market. Feel free to jack this idea.

Edited October 20, 2019 by FDR's Think Tank

[Lines]

1 hour ago, FDR's Think Tank said:

I am also excited by the idea of Making Perez Park a Functional traveled place again... why not sell real estate around the park? You could bring back Prestige and have it so major Super Groups could bid for physical locations at the Park so they aren't just a shared Portal. People could visit the lobby of Supergroups who have a building and get a guided tour with references to team member's backstories. It would be big with the RP community, I bet.

 

It would be really neat to have Team Logos adorning the buildings and perhaps some sprucing up..., Although I can't think of what the Villain's version would be....

 

Edit idea: Would it be impossible for Arachnos to be part of the effort to rebuild around Perez Park? It could be a PvPlite Zone where Heroes and Villains can't attack each other, but they can attack the opposing Longbow/Arachnos Security Patrols... whichever applies. How many Patrols there are of each is determined by building ownership, which is determined by the market. Feel free to jack this idea.

A constantly running Perez reclamation event would be great fun! I also like the idea of prestige becoming a reward again, used for a new something-or-other, but I feel like this should be done in such a way that it doesn't oust or ostracise the solo SGs that people have been making. I love the idea of claiming spaces, but the event can't just include the most popular few SGs. Or rather, it could reward popular SGs in such a way, but have something for everybody as well.

 

Since blueside is vastly larger than red, the easiest thing would be to open up these zones to both sides, as you say. If it's remotely possible in the coding, it'd be nice to have these zones interchangably co-op/PvPlite depending on how you're teamed. That way if streetsweeping in the zone does become valuable in some way, it's not necessarily bias towards heroes.

[justicebeliever]

19 hours ago, biostem said:

Good news!  The game code is out there in the wild, now;  Setup your own server and establish whatever rules you want!

That's not even an option for anybody.  I'm pretty sure the code doesn't have configurations built in for Issue 1, Issue 2, Issue 3, etc.  

 

You get i24 beta as a starting point.  Where you go from there isn't about it being in the wild, it'd be about having a deep familiarity with the code and with exactly what was in each issue.  It'd take years to unspool it back to a issue 1 program.

 

I'm pretty sure it wasn't a serious suggestion you were making, but I do wish people would stop suggesting people who are unhappy 'go somewhere else'.  Unless a person is toxic levels of rudeness, then they should have the same rights to post here as everyone else.  They should have the same rights to be heard as everyone else.

 

This game doesn't belong to anyone but NCSoft.  So no one here is a "better" voice, or "more of a voice" or more invested in the game than anyone else.

 

The servers don't belong to anyone but Homecoming.  Again, there is no voice on these forums, apart from HC staff that are the "right" voices or more invested in the game, or have the "right" views than anyone else.

 

There is no "us" vs "them".  No "you" vs "me".  We may disagree on many things, facts, and opinions, but we are all still people at the end of the day.  I'm sure many people who argue on the boards would get along fine in a PUIG in game, and people you've struggled with in-game you would strongly agree with on the boards.  There are people on here you may harbor anger against and you could later find out they are a valued co-worker in your office, or a fun family member that you didn't even know played. 

 

This is not to say we can't or shouldn't disagree, but let's try to be civil, and not kick people to the curb.

[Tahliah]

6 hours ago, FDR's Think Tank said:

You know, the simple solution is to make the next Server to open a "Hardcore" mode server. Anything that people want as far as rollbacks to Convenience can be done there, you can remove the P2W Stores, you can put in limitations to your hearts content. If it's the official Hardcore Server, people understand that by going there, they are agreeing to have less convenience in game. You could even add fun little events where the Monorail might be shut down to specific areas, perhaps areas having events, for security. You'd bring back Taxi Bot characters, and how!

You don't need a server for this.  There are clearly a lot of people who wish things were as they were before.  Why not start an sg and get together with like-minded people and do your thing?  Skip whatever "easy" you all want, run regular sewers (have to admit, we did that when we first got back! Nostalgia!), use only old school transport, slowly build your sg base based on whatever criteria you all decide, run the content you want the way you want.  What's stopping you?  Heck, I'd run a toon in that sg just for nostalgia's sake.  Build it and they will come.  🙂

 

Back on live, there was a Hard Core sg that required its members to delete their toons when they died.  @Sailboatwas pretty kind about letting us quietly remove favorites from the SG, but the idea was that once you died, you were dead.  You had to think and play differently.  You couldn't zerg rush purple Arachnos on a whim and then regroup after a team wipe, you had to think and you had to use the available resources (teammates, inspirations, careful power choices, builds, etc.) to ensure you did. not. die. 

 

Nothing in the game forced this, it was a choice that a lot of people made to have fun and push the limits.  You can do that now.  Don't like [insert whatever]?  Great, there are probably others who don't like it, either. Instead of trying to force your preferences on others, why not just all get together and do your own thing?  It's very doable --  as I said, I was in a Hard Core sg and sadly deleted many a toon, not because I "had" to or the game sucked the toon away but because those were the rules of the group.

 

Another example, back on live I thoroughly enjoyed being a part of an all plant troll group.  I posted a question about whether or not there was such a group now.  When the answer came back negative but with clear interest in such a group, I said to myself, hey, you want this, go for it.  So I took that ball and ran with it.  And now we have a fun plant troll/dom group that runs every Tuesday night.  We even have an sg for the group!  It can be done.  Find others who want what you want and just go for it.  Like I said, I'd join your throwback sg with a toon (or two) for sure.  

Edited October 21, 2019 by Tahliah
grr typos

[Megajoule]

^ This is a good post.

As the saying goes, "Be the change you want to see in the world."

[boggo2300]

On 10/20/2019 at 11:13 AM, biostem said:

You understand that her being labeled as "P2W" is meant to be tongue-in-cheek, given that no one is actually paying any real money to her, yes?  Sure, you pay influence or infamy for some of the items she has for sale, but as previously mentioned, that is more about removing money from the in-game economy...

I wasn't there, but I imagine she is called P2W because her goods are the vet rewards, and the things from the NC-Soft real money store, ie, the P2Win store from live, which is incidentally why she doesn't stock in game earned rewards...

[Marine X]

5 hours ago, boggo2300 said:

which is incidentally why she doesn't stock in game earned rewards...

Aah, that makes sense, the Nemesis Staff and Blackwand were Vet Rewards, the Croatoa Stuff were earned in game. All coming back now, good catch.

[FDR's Think Tank]

23 hours ago, Lines said:

A constantly running Perez reclamation event would be great fun! I also like the idea of prestige becoming a reward again, used for a new something-or-other, but I feel like this should be done in such a way that it doesn't oust or ostracise the solo SGs that people have been making. I love the idea of claiming spaces, but the event can't just include the most popular few SGs. Or rather, it could reward popular SGs in such a way, but have something for everybody as well.

 

Since blueside is vastly larger than red, the easiest thing would be to open up these zones to both sides, as you say. If it's remotely possible in the coding, it'd be nice to have these zones interchangably co-op/PvPlite depending on how you're teamed. That way if streetsweeping in the zone does become valuable in some way, it's not necessarily bias towards heroes.

 

I mean, a PvP Zone would likely have PvP rewards, even if it was PvPlite. As far as rewarding the most popular/active/powerful Supergroups and Villain Groups... I don't see why not? Isn't that ALSO a reward for people who don't belong? A guided tour where you get to the ability to learn about the Star Players on your own server? The Missions will sometimes Force Feed us all with how great Positron, or Manticore, or Statesman are... but it's not like the Devs are around to man the characters. We rarely got a chance to play with them back when the game was official. Now? Now is not the time for regret, that came already. Now is the time to forge our own legends... or at least bear witness to it!

 

Maybe for a change the groups managing the PvP Zone could be someone other than Longbow and Arachnos.

 

Other Building options could include a new Arena, New Dedicated Facilities to E.L.I.T.E., M.A.G.I., S.E.R.E.P.H., etc. and lets not forget some Cathedrals, which are oddly lacking from much of Paragon. How can we recreate our iconic scenes from Daredevil, Spawn, and Azrael without some serious Gothic Crosses, Gargoyles, Stained Glass, and such? Even WoW has a Cathedral in Stormwind. It's not like I expect someone to dress up like a Priest and give mass every Sunday in game, or take confessions... but epic Rooftop battles on Cathedrals should be more common in a superhero universe. Wouldn't a Park have a few Cathedrals near it, even if the park was known for midnight terrors, horrible crime, and shocking gruesome scenes?

 

I suppose they would need a reason to rapidly reclaim or fight over the park, something like the Fountain of Youth being discovered. It's Paragon. Anything is possible. Maybe make it the Fountain of something else... Victory?

 

 

On a Note about Hardcore Servers

 

While I can get the monastic pleasure derived from self-imposed restriction... there IS something attractive about knowing you are on a server/world where everyone suffers the same restrictions. Again, it creates roles like dedicated public Taxi heroes who Zip around and give people teleports.

[EmmySky]

1 hour ago, FDR's Think Tank said:

 

I mean, a PvP Zone would likely have PvP rewards, even if it was PvPlite.

Could it be a co-op zone where heroes and villains work together to clear the streets of Skulls and Hellions and CoT, throw in some snakes and other appropriate level villain enemy groups.  Maybe have the amount of enemies defeated in there by your SG (in SG mode) raise your SG ranking for the Stars of your Server thing you mentioned.  Have billboard SGs could soon see with prestige or aforementioned ranking to have their name, emblem, maybe a map of their base, their 'catch phrase' and MotD.  

 

It might would die off after a couple months but a zone with the intent of street sweeping would certainly 'busy up' the city for those who want it and give a little boost to busy SGs that play a lot.

[Andrewvm]

Honestly, he does have a bit of a point: I prefer being in atlas because of the people. 

 

But taking away those amenities would require a redesign of the city zones I think: instead of spreading people out over a zone, the commercial buildings should then be clustered (around a square of sorts) 

[Neogumbercules]

I understand where the OP is coming from, but I can't get behind it. The QOL features are basically the only thing keeping me around. Like many others here my life has moved on since live. I have a real job, kids, house, wife, etc. If things went back to the way they were CoH would definitely not be doable for me. 

 

Besides my own growth though, game design in general has moved on too. QOL is important and games are usually better about respecting their players time (mobile games not withstanding).