Help and LFG Channel Misuse

[Solarverse]

So a few days ago, Help channel was being used for casual conversation. One player reminded them that Help channel was not for socializing, and asked that they move the conversation elsewhere.

 

One of the individuals who had a hand in the socializing,  became roused and accused the player of being chat police, and asked, "What are you going to do, ignore me?"

 

At this point I stepped in to add in my two cents and stated, "I wouldn't, but if this channel is going to start being used to socialize, then I will simply delete the channel. Not much point in using the channel if it turns in to a socializing channel."

 

That is when I closed out the channel and went on with my day.

 

So my question is, what, if anything should players do when channels created for group hunting or help are being hijacked by socializing? Is this something GM's will step in and put an end to, or is there pretty much nothing that can be done?

 

Which brings me to another point...

 

Power Level beggars in LFG chat. It's starting to remind me of the old Tank herding days when Broadcast chat was filled with beggars. It's not that bad yet, but their numbers are growing. Should this be permitted in LFG chat? If so, do regular team minded players have a right to have a channel free from Power Level begging spam? 

 

How do you feel about this?

[Lines]

If your shard has a good channel for socialising, invite folks that way I suppose.

People wanna socialise in an MMO, that's normal, but CoH has no natural, intuitive way to do so. LFG and Help fill that role immediately, and it takes someone to point out how to access the social hubs for it to move into the right spots.

 

Reunion is so quiet on those channels that a bit of chat there is welcome to me.

[Abraxus]

I feel like there are other avenues for casual chatter, and that they should be encouraged to utilize those, and leave the HELP, and LFG channels to be used for that which they were intended.  I don't feel like it's a 'bannable" offense, but a matter of respect, and MMO etiquette.  If the problem is that prevalent, make a GM aware.  But, beyond a simple reminder of the intended use of a channel, getting into a protracted argument on the channel over it's proper use could be viewed in a less than complimentary way in, and of, itself. 

As for the power-leveling request (for AE farms I'm assuming), AE is a recognized part of the game, and as such is just as entitled to queries about a team as anything else IMHO.  I suppose you could suggest that they go to one of the AE buildings, and do a "local" inquiry to reduce server-wide traffic on the LFG channel, but I don't see the harm at this juncture.  Again, that's just my take.  Your mileage may vary. 🙂

Edited October 27, 2019 by Abraxus

[Machariel]

I honestly think it’s fine. Most of the time help is relatively quiet with only a few people talking. Nobody should get mad if someone asks them to take a clearly social conversation out of help chat though.

[EmmySky]

On Indom Help Channel a GM (or CR I don't remember which) actually joined and addressed this saying that as long as people needing help could get help there wasn't a problem with chit chat.  My understanding was to not let it scroll fast so people felt ignored or unhelped.  I always make it a point to help people if I know the answer and to answer that I am sorry I dont know if I cant help so that they dont feel ignored.    

 

Regarding the PL begging, I feel its out of control no matter what channel its on.  Even without the PLers the LFG channel scrolls my chat too fast so I only add it to my tab if I am looking for DFB or want to see if there is a TF I want to run.

[boggo2300]

Honestly what's it matter? unless it's drowning the channel and there are people desperately begging for DFB (lets face it thats what 90% of LFG traffic is) who cares? 

[MetaVileTerror]

I've been periodically trying to encourage the socializing on Everlasting to migrate from Help and LFG to the Arena Chat Channel, since /no one/ uses that channel for its intended purpose on Everlasting.  

LFG rarely has the idle chatter, but it happens from time to time.  More often, LFG has some drama explosion where one player or team accuses another team or player of inappropriate conduct.  It's truly facepalm-worthy.

 Help channel, on the other hand . . . I have to admit, I've fallen prey to abusing that channel myself on more than one occasion.  For the most part, questions get answered and help is provided, but there are still times when conversations in the Help channel get quite out of hand.  We used to have GMs step in and curtail it, but lately there hasn't been as much GM intervention, even when things get worse than past instances.

 

One of the GMs used to tell us that there were plans to create Shard-specific socialization channels, but I haven't heard hide-nor-hair of that for months now.

[SaintD]

I have literally never seen someone's questions be ignored on a Help chat that's filled with socialization. Quite the opposite. People socializing on Help chat are actually paying attention to it, and respond when people say things in it - because they're socializing and in the mood to talk, they jump all over questions and help requests almost immediately.

Coupled with the complaining about 'PL beggars', I pretty much just....don't like you. People should be using channels only for what they're tagged as! Unless you're asking to join a kind of group I don't approve of in the looking for group chat, then you can't use it to look for groups!

Yeah, whatever.

[boggo2300]

well technically "PL Beggars" ARE asking for a group, so they should be on LFG surely?

[Apparition]

You could always do what I did.  One of the very first things I did back on April 24th was remove the Help channel entirely from the chat tab, and put LFG into its own chat tab.  I haven't seen the Help channel since April 24th, and I only see LFG whenever I'm in the mood or want to form something.

[Shred Monkey]

I never really understood why people can't just choose to not care what other people type in a channel.

 

But if a channel has rules, I don't think it's inappropriate to mention when someone is breaking them.  But you should also expect people to get defensive when you call them out on something. 

[Xeres]

To me there's nothing wrong with socializing in help.  BUT (big but because I like big... er n/m) it becomes a problem IF (I like big IFs too) a help request gets ignored or drowned out due to the socializing.

[jubakumbi]

I think anyone that thinks in such binary terms as to force humans to follow such silly and arbitrary rules on conversations in a social game needs to perhaps look up words in the dictionary like empathy and compassion, perhaps even needs to go in the to 'outside' or partake in an adult beverage and 'chill out'.

 

Are we really so tight assed in our glorious CoH community that we now have to swipe at each other over how and wehre we choose to be friendly?

[ShardWarrior]

20 hours ago, Solarverse said:

One of the individuals who had a hand in the socializing,  became roused and accused the player of being chat police, and asked, "What are you going to do, ignore me?"

Every now and again on Torchbearer there are a couple of people who get into protracted discussion, which usually ends on its own after a couple of minutes.  If there are people being blatantly obnoxious, I put them on ignore and move on. 

[Arc-Mage]

It's not a HUGE problem so I would suggest letting it go. If it does become a HUGE problem a Mod will step in and correct it. That's what they do. It isn't a big enough problem to warrant worrying about.

 

I should probably let it be known I talk on the Help Channel all the time. Mostly asking for free PLs.

[Solarverse]

3 hours ago, jubakumbi said:

I think anyone that thinks in such binary terms as to force humans to follow such silly and arbitrary rules on conversations in a social game needs to perhaps look up words in the dictionary like empathy and compassion, perhaps even needs to go in the to 'outside' or partake in an adult beverage and 'chill out'.

 

Are we really so tight assed in our glorious CoH community that we now have to swipe at each other over how and wehre we choose to be friendly?

I see it like this; If a channel is being used for anything and everything, even though it was not created for any other reason that to help people who ask questions about the game, then that channel is pointless. We might at well have only one single channel per server, and let people talk about whatever they wish. I mean, if rules are silly, and if expecting people to adhere to the rules of a chat channel makes them tight assed, then why have rules at all?

 

No point in having chat channel rules if it's all just silly. We seem to live in times where rules no longer apply. If this is the case, then let's just do away with silly channels and open up a global free for all channel.

 

This is not how I feel it should be handled, but this is the logic you are kind of running with, yes? Or were you implying something different and I read in to it wrong?

[Doc_Scorpion]

6 hours ago, Apparition said:

You could always do what I did.  One of the very first things I did back on April 24th was remove the Help channel entirely from the chat tab, and put LFG into its own chat tab.  I haven't seen the Help channel since April 24th, and I only see LFG whenever I'm in the mood or want to form something.

Some folks like to be useful to the community and actively provide help to those who ask.  That is why we don't mute or remove the Help channel.

And that's also why I don't care for it being an anything goes chat channel - because my attention is constantly pulled away by inane noise because I have to read what pops up to see if it's a request for help only to find that it's a  pair of idiots discussing their favorite TV show.  That's the central problem with the Help channel being used as an anything goes chat channel, a small number of self centered idiots are consuming the attention (and screen space) of everyone monitoring the channel.

[jubakumbi]

34 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

I see it like this; If a channel is being used for anything and everything, even though it was not created for any other reason that to help people who ask questions about the game, then that channel is pointless. We might at well have only one single channel per server, and let people talk about whatever they wish. I mean, if rules are silly, and if expecting people to adhere to the rules of a chat channel makes them tight assed, then why have rules at all?

 

No point in having chat channel rules if it's all just silly. We seem to live in times where rules no longer apply. If this is the case, then let's just do away with silly channels and open up a global free for all channel.

 

This is not how I feel it should be handled, but this is the logic you are kind of running with, yes? Or were you implying something different and I read in to it wrong?

It's all about extremes...

Not worrying about conversations that occur on occasion in a chat channel vs worrying over the channels becoming useless because of it are two very differnt things.

You imply 'lighten up' is 'total anarchy'.

 

I ask for people to be reasonable and not harp on silly little details and relax, people imply I advocate total anarchy.

Yup, biz as usual.

 

And yes, the mere fact that words on the screen in a video game cause even this level of angst is, IMO, silly.

Edited October 28, 2019 by jubakumbi
PS

[MetaVileTerror]

and before someone says it in a vain attempt to defend the activity:  People posting idle chatter in the Help channel is NOT "keeping the channel alive/active/observed."  Players receive help in Help without other players having tangential conversations there.  Personally anecdote, but I can recall numerous instances of players becoming frustrated that their questions were not being answered in Help or that they were unable to find the answer amidst all the unrelated messages since a big conversation was dominating the channel.

If the Devs/GMs kept chat logs for longer, I'm quite certain we could see plenty of evidence that a quiet Help channel is plenty prompt in answering player questions. 

 

And, again, this is from the perspective of someone who admits, with shame, that I have got drawn in to conversations in the Help channel that are entirely inappropriate to the specific function.

Players definitely could use an appropriate and adequate General Chat Channel, which isn't tied to Globals, so that maintaining channel subscriptions and editing tabs isn't necessary.  That seems to be the primary hurdle which prevents players presently from taking their idle conversations to the many Global Channels which already exist for it.

[Xeres]

Let me chime in here a little more.  I was kinda pressed for time before.

 

I see both sides of this point.  My feeling is that having the occasional conversation isn't a bad thing on the help channel because from it, maybe some helpful information may occur that then brings up a follow up question, and hopefully, an answer.  I don't think help needs to strictly be ask -> answer.

 

But when it does drown out a question then it's a problem.  And arguments on help is a big, big no from me.

[Solarverse]

35 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

It's all about extremes...

Not worrying about conversations that occur on occasion in a chat channel vs worrying over the channels becoming useless because of it are two very differnt things.

You imply 'lighten up' is 'total anarchy'.

 

I ask for people to be reasonable and not harp on silly little details and relax, people imply I advocate total anarchy.

Yup, biz as usual.

 

And yes, the mere fact that words on the screen in a video game cause even this level of angst is, IMO, silly.

Okay, I see. I just read you wrong.

[Solarverse]

28 minutes ago, MetaVileTerror said:

 

Players definitely could use an appropriate and adequate General Chat Channel, which isn't tied to Globals, so that maintaining channel subscriptions and editing tabs isn't necessary.  That seems to be the primary hurdle which prevents players presently from taking their idle conversations to the many Global Channels which already exist for it.

That would be a good idea all round.

[MunkiLord]

I understand the complaint, but personally I don't find it a big deal. I have both Help and LFG in their own tabs to cut down on the noise.

[biostem]

OP, I understand your frustration, but then I have to ask - what is the official policy, regarding what can or cannot be done in the help channel?  If there isn't one, (besides the general rules of conduct), then all you can do is hide the channel or deal with it.

[Widower]

4 hours ago, biostem said:

OP, I understand your frustration, but then I have to ask - what is the official policy, regarding what can or cannot be done in the help channel?  If there isn't one, (besides the general rules of conduct), then all you can do is hide the channel or deal with it.

Good news! There is a policy!

 

At all times people in Help and/or LFG should A) always be able to use the channel for its primary purpose and B) stick to CoH-related subjects (so please for the love of Jimmy do not get into long-winded debates about politics). That's it.

 

21 hours ago, MetaVileTerror said:

One of the GMs used to tell us that there were plans to create Shard-specific socialization channels, but I haven't heard hide-nor-hair of that for months now.

There are! There are plans to do many things. Not all of them can happen at once. Some things are more important at the moment, for better or for worse.