Sorry not sorry

[biostem]

3 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

But debt builds character, so I was good with it.

I'm glad you were "good with it".  That doesn't mean other people will be, nor that it is an ideal way to play.  As I stated, talk to your teammates and come to some sort of agreement, first...

[MunkiLord]

9 minutes ago, biostem said:

I'm glad you were "good with it".  That doesn't mean other people will be, nor that it is an ideal way to play.  As I stated, talk to your teammates and come to some sort of agreement, first...

I wasn't the one doing the KB, and I didn't tell him to do it. He was doing it and I adjusted and attempted to lock the mobs down before he got to them. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. It's not my responsibility if his behavior bothered other people.

Edited October 29, 2019 by MunkiLord

[Nericus]

Knockback can be very nice when fighting fake nemesis. The more you can knock them around the less chance they have of raising their forcefield and falling back and you can take them down faster

[biostem]

7 minutes ago, Nericus said:

Knockback can be very nice when fighting fake nemesis. The more you can knock them around the less chance they have of raising their forcefield and falling back and you can take them down faster

A power like air superiority can do the same thing, only without scattering them around...

[SlimPickens]

You knock em, you own em. Ill just go herd another spawn and leave you to your scattered mess. 

 

I just dont like wasting time, and chasing mobs is wasting time compared to tightly packed aoe herds. But its not the players fault the game mechanics are not conductive to teaming. Sometimes its negligent use of the powers, but other times its just a annoyingly thought out powerset.

 

Energy blast is cool as hell looking, but I cant bring myself to play it because the juice aint worth the squeeze of annoying everyone i team with. I got too much min/max hustle in me to play a set designed to waste time playing 52 card pickup every spawn. 

[Solarverse]

44 minutes ago, SlimPickens said:

You knock em, you own em. Ill just go herd another spawn and leave you to your scattered mess. 

 

I just dont like wasting time, and chasing mobs is wasting time compared to tightly packed aoe herds. But its not the players fault the game mechanics are not conductive to teaming. Sometimes its negligent use of the powers, but other times its just a annoyingly thought out powerset.

 

Energy blast is cool as hell looking, but I cant bring myself to play it because the juice aint worth the squeeze of annoying everyone i team with. I got too much min/max hustle in me to play a set designed to waste time playing 52 card pickup every spawn. 

My Main is an Energy/Rad Blaster. Not once has anyone ever given me crap for it. KB to KD IO's...that's why.  😉

[TraumaTrain]

On 10/28/2019 at 7:18 PM, Gravitus said:

Figures there will always be entitled folks telling others how to play despite the devs best efforts.

 

Something about pots and kettles...

[MetaVileTerror]

If it wouldn't risk getting me in a bit of trouble for sock-puppet'ing, I'd give you a lot of "Likes" for that one, TraumaTrain.

[Rylas]

11 hours ago, jubakumbi said:

I think after reading through this thread there are a lot of wanna-be CEOs that play this game.

Newsflash, you don't get to dictate how other use powers in the game.

Just to clarify, those of us that just suggest making people aware of things before starting things like TFs and Trials, you don't consider those wanna-be CEOs, do you?

[Gravitus]

11 hours ago, jubakumbi said:

I think after reading through this thread there are a lot of wanna-be CEOs that play this game.

Newsflash, you don't get to dictate how other use powers in the game.

 

Not exploits, powers coded and meant to be used in the game.

 

Like the OP, I will play my characters using every single thing in the game I like.

If you don't like the things I use, then YOU can leave the team, and/or YOU can use the tools provided to tailor YOUR experience.

If YOU have a problem with what is occuring on the team, it is up to YOU to leave, not prevent other players from using the powers that the game provides, full stop.

 

Don't let the control freaks and Fun Haters Players Union stop your fun.

Play the way you like and let the fun-haters go play the game like a job on another team.

 

Fun per second is the main thing, not the trivial rewards like Influence and Recipes, slogging through mobs in some effort to 'maximize profits' like a job. 

 

The best part of these threads is that I get to add names to my in-game ignore list w/o ever having to go through the pain of teaming with hateful people.

THIS.

 

The thing about my situation is both parties can have it their way. The control freaks are without excuse. The logic is infallible.
 

The people crying about not knowing what null the gull is don’t have my sympathy. If you’re ignorant of anything’s existence in this game, it’s your fault . You have the internet and these forums . You are bankrupt of excuses . 
 

This is Further cemented by the fact that out of 24 people. Only 3 didn’t have it turned off. 

Edited October 30, 2019 by Gravitus

[Solarverse]

31 minutes ago, Gravitus said:

THIS.

 

The thing about my situation is both parties can have it their way. The control freaks are without excuse. The logic is infallible.
 

The people crying about not knowing what null the gull is don’t have my sympathy. If you’re ignorant of anything’s existence in this game, it’s your fault . You have the internet and these forums . You are bankrupt of excuses . 

I'm not against you here. If it were me on your team, I would have asked you to hang tight for one mission on that power, so that I could Null the Gull afterwards (mainly because I don't make it a point to null the gull every character I make) and request you hold off on it until the next mission. Pretty sure that would ahve been fine by you and we could all go on with our daily butt kickings.

 

Having said that, I get your venting here, but to be honest, chances are the players you were with do not post the forums. We forum posters are the minority, but we *think* we represent the majority. Keep this in mind, and next time this happens to you, just politely tell them you'll chill for the rest of the mission, but would be appreciative if they visited Null after said mission so that you can go back to using your GF without interfering with others. If at that point they still refuse...well...that's on them.

[Gravitus]

1 minute ago, Solarverse said:

I'm not against you here. If it were me on your team, I would have asked you to hang tight for one mission on that power, so that I could Null the Gull afterwards (mainly because I don't make it a point to null the gull every character I make) and request you hold off on it until the next mission. Pretty sure that would ahve been fine by you and we could all go on with our daily butt kickings.

 

Having said that, I get your venting here, but to be honest, chances are the players you were with do not post the forums. We forum posters are the minority, but we *think* we represent the majority. Keep this in mind, and next time this happens to you, just politely tell them you'll chill for the rest of the mission, but would be appreciative if they visited Null after said mission so that you can go back to using your GF without interfering with others. If at that point they still refuse...well...that's on them.

If it were several missions long, sure. But it was a BAF trial. 1 mission long. 

[biostem]

42 minutes ago, Gravitus said:

THIS.

 

The thing about my situation is both parties can have it their way. The control freaks are without excuse. The logic is infallible.
 

The people crying about not knowing what null the gull is don’t have my sympathy. If you’re ignorant of anything’s existence in this game, it’s your fault . You have the internet and these forums . You are bankrupt of excuses . 
 

This is Further cemented by the fact that out of 24 people. Only 3 didn’t have it turned off. 

As I've advocated for, and will continue to, is for the TEAM to communicate and to work things out internally.  If you join a team, then it ceases to just be about your fun;  You have explicitly agreed to play alongside others, which means that your own personal definition of "fun" must be weighed against that of your teammates.  Yes, this flows both ways - so shouting that *no one* should use KBs is just as bad as pushing to be able to use them with reckless abandon.  Talk to your other team members, and figure things out, and either proceed or part ways, depending upon your ability to come to some sort of agreement...

[Gravitus]

6 minutes ago, biostem said:

As I've advocated for, and will continue to, is for the TEAM to communicate and to work things out internally.  If you join a team, then it ceases to just be about your fun;  You have explicitly agreed to play alongside others, which means that your own personal definition of "fun" must be weighed against that of your teammates.  Yes, this flows both ways - so shouting that *no one* should use KBs is just as bad as pushing to be able to use them with reckless abandon.  Talk to your other team members, and figure things out, and either proceed or part ways, depending upon your ability to come to some sort of agreement...

That’s completely fine , however I think we can have a conversation about which party is actually being unreasonable .

[biostem]

Just now, Gravitus said:

That’s completely fine , however I think we can have a conversation about which party is actually being unreasonable .

On the extreme ends, both are.

[Gravitus]

2 minutes ago, biostem said:

On the extreme ends, both are.

I’m talking about with respect to group fly. Not KB

[Leogunner]

3 hours ago, SlimPickens said:

You knock em, you own em. Ill just go herd another spawn and leave you to your scattered mess. 

 

I just dont like wasting time, and chasing mobs is wasting time compared to tightly packed aoe herds. But its not the players fault the game mechanics are not conductive to teaming. Sometimes its negligent use of the powers, but other times its just a annoyingly thought out powerset.

 

Energy blast is cool as hell looking, but I cant bring myself to play it because the juice aint worth the squeeze of annoying everyone i team with. I got too much min/max hustle in me to play a set designed to waste time playing 52 card pickup every spawn. 

I mean, if you really want to "not waste time", we should be running all missions at lowest possible difficulty with as few mobs as possible.

 

If you can't be arsed with playing with a bit of variety in tactics for such a plebeian reason in a GAME FOR WASTING TIME, perhaps you're not having as much fun as you think.

 

I'm not saying you have to accept whatever shit rolls down the hill every time but sometimes you people sound like you have the most massive of sticks up your asses I wonder if you're forcibly tried to your computer chairs and forced to farm inf for literally nothing at the whims of some sinister Chinese inf seller whose sole purpose is torturing you.

 

#sorrynotsorry

Edited October 30, 2019 by Leogunner

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

8 hours ago, Inverted said:

 

Ah, a diminished conscience.   Are you a run of the mill sociopath or full blown psycho?

 

This community is full of good people that want to help and work together to accomplish goals.   Weird, right?  You'd feel left out, if you felt anything at all.

 

 

PS - "guilt tool" is funny!  I'm laughing at you.

 

Ah armchair shrinking, how very civil of you. You know so much as suggesting someone has a mental disorder is very much against these forums rules right? You basically undermine yourself as some kind of good sort by making such statements.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

Herding is not good play, tanking and spanking are not good play. If your on a team that needs to do such to not be overwhelmed your playing above your ability and basically exploiting old obsolete AI to compensate. Good team play is when everyone is basically a walking 8 man mob killer, can spread out to optimize time vs completion, and do what they do best.

 

Because lets be honest that is waht a good vs bad CoH player is, someone who knows how to build and optimize, even within a RP concept and is capable of pushing hard at a dif setting the common player cant. A good team player is a bad hero, because a hero doesnt hold back, they do not hesitate, and they do not fear defeat.

 

You ever wonder why the Heroic EATs get turned into supermen by their teams, while the VEATs buff their team up? Because its the act of the cowardly villain in comicdom that depends on numbers. When Batman finds himself facing a group of META he will call in the JLA... maybe. But he sure as shit wont hesitate to put himself in their way to keep them busy, and from threatening people no matter how over matched he may be in raw power.

 

I fully support the OP on this, if getting lifted up by group fly bothers you thats a you problem and no one elses. If it bothers you so much you think they or you should leave the group you area  terrible group player and should stick to solo. If you need herding, tanking and spanking etc for anything short of fights with big bad AVs and GMs your build needs to be improved or you need to stick to a lower dif.

 

There is most certainly an I in the Midnight Club, 2 actually, Yet we are always great together no matter our builds and power choices. I lead TFs more actively then most, and the only people I ever kick are those who think bitching at others about how they play or try to back seat lead. My prime directive when I lead is you do your thing as good as you can and do not fear failing because I wont let us fail. IMO a leader should always be able to carry any team he leads if they end up lacking in some way. The person who builds so caleld perfect teams isnt a leader he is looking for minions to carry his own weakness.

 

When on I trials I will stick with my group unless I see a need to be other places. Ive been assigned to one AV only to see that DPS was sorely lacking on the other and do my own thing from then on adapting to the need rather then waiting for orders. When teams are clearing the street I solo the turrets to speed things up abit.  The fact is the best teams are comprised of those who dont need a team to do what an avg 8 man team can barely do. We who can and choose to lead are doing so as a public service, when we lend our power to other teams we are doing that team a service.

 

The OP clearly understands his chosen AT and power sets well and the choice to use group fly on an MM especially on bots is always the right choice and the sign of a better builder. He has every right to feel annoyance and even contempt for those too ignorant of the game to know about Null the Gull yet think they know how to play his character more optimally then he does.

 

You want to be of use to the team and community, rather then bitch at others and tell them how to play their toons, focus on playing yours and being good enough to adapt rather then QQing and demanding they leave or quitting yourself. If you cant, dont bother teaming at all. As leaving groups in a huff will get you on ignore.

 

So if you want to be seen as heroic, roll with the punches, adapt to every situation, and focus on what you do, not what your team mates do.

[MunkiLord]

44 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

I lead TFs more actively then most, and the only people I ever kick are those who think bitching at others about how they play or try to back seat lead. My prime directive when I lead is you do your thing as good as you can and do not fear failing because I wont let us fail. IMO a leader should always be able to carry any team he leads if they end up lacking in some way. The person who builds so caleld perfect teams isnt a leader he is looking for minions to carry his own weakness.

 

 

I completely agree here. You fucking nailed it. 

[Extor Prime]

This entire thread is why I play solo 90% of the time.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

6 hours ago, TraumaTrain said:

 

Something about pots and kettles...

But he isnt telling people how to play, he is saying that complaining about others when the problem is a personal one and easily fixed witha  visit to null which the defense of ignorance is no excuse for trying to dictate anothers build/playstyle.

 

The simple fact is no player ever even as the team leader has the right to say use or dont use a power/mechanic that is in game by design. They dont even have any business saying one word about it. If you dont like something about another player for any reason the only proper choice is to silently move on rather then try to create a scene. It doesnt matter if its a power choice, the content being run, or how its being run. go play by yourself if something about other people just playing the game as intended is bothering you.  When I see a brute die over and over trying to keep up with my blaster I dont chide them, mock them, nor berate them. I may suggest they stick closer to me to be safer but if they dont that is their choice to make and I wont fret one bit over it. If they ask me how I am staying alive and how they can improve their own ability to live Ill take time out of my own playing to help them.

 

Even when on a group we each are here first and foremost for our personal enjoyment. Attacking others for playing in a non exploitative way is always wrong. I consider tanking and spanking and herding closer to exploits then not in a game with this dated of an AI and tend to put players who play like that on ignore so as to avoid ever crossing their path again. But I dont feel the need to say a word to them about their clear lack of ability or build power.

 

The OP was playing as intended. He was using powers in a smart manner that optimized his builds impact and reduced his need to re-summon even the weakest of his minions.  He wasnt dictating how others should play, he simply pointed out that those who had a problem with him had a very easy in game way to remove the issue they complained about. But instead wanted to make it his problem and make him play in a less fun manner because they couldnt be handle being able to fly if close to him. Flying doesnt hinder you in a meaningful manner, and those who cant adapt to it are bad players pure and simple.

 

[Gulbasaur]

11 hours ago, Solarverse said:

If I am the leader of the team, and somebody is knocking grouped mobs all over the place making AoEs useless, the player knocking everything back gets a request to not scatter (Knock Back by skilled players will not scatter mobs) mobs. If that player refuses, I help that player in to a position to find a team that better fits his/her playstyle.

No matter how much somebody wants to champion their knock back, if their playstyle goes against mine, they will be removed. I am almost always team leader, so removing them is of little effort.

I totally agree with you - the problem isn't the mechanic, it's people who play carelessly and you see that across all powersets. I think knockback gets a disproportionate amount of hate because its effect is fairly visible. 

 

Controllers/dominators who immobilise, hold, sleep or fear enemies before they can get into AoEs and people who drop AoEs in completely illogical places like the wrong side of a corner or at some arbitrary point in the middle of a room - I've seen that happen on many occasions. Do you think you'd have the same reaction to that? They're both impeding the same deathzone mechanics.

 

I mainly play melee or control sets - I definitely think both of those are more harmful than knockback and I would argue that they're much more common - most knocked back enemies take one shot then beeline straight back into the blender, but an AoE dumped carelessly over a third of a group is an AoE dumped carelessly over a third of a group. I, like you, tend to lead groups when I can and I usually just ask people directly to be careful with AoEs and knockback (and brutes using aggro as a way of maintaining fury, not a way of controlling enemies... that's a big annoyance, especially when they run off leaving their teammates still fighting the enemies from two spawns ago because they don't notice that the bosses don't just fold like minions and then whole "Why should I take taunt?" thing, when "Because the three bosses at the back have chain-held your two corruptors for the last 30 seconds and they're not in melee so you haven't even looked at them" is apparently not an answer people want to hear).

 

Anyway, sorry... I think I'm using this to vent about bad players more than mechanics at this point. 

[Solarverse]

3 hours ago, Gulbasaur said:

I totally agree with you - the problem isn't the mechanic, it's people who play carelessly and you see that across all powersets. I think knockback gets a disproportionate amount of hate because its effect is fairly visible. 

 

Controllers/dominators who immobilise, hold, sleep or fear enemies before they can get into AoEs and people who drop AoEs in completely illogical places like the wrong side of a corner or at some arbitrary point in the middle of a room - I've seen that happen on many occasions. Do you think you'd have the same reaction to that? They're both impeding the same deathzone mechanics.

 

I mainly play melee or control sets - I definitely think both of those are more harmful than knockback and I would argue that they're much more common - most knocked back enemies take one shot then beeline straight back into the blender, but an AoE dumped carelessly over a third of a group is an AoE dumped carelessly over a third of a group. I, like you, tend to lead groups when I can and I usually just ask people directly to be careful with AoEs and knockback (and brutes using aggro as a way of maintaining fury, not a way of controlling enemies... that's a big annoyance, especially when they run off leaving their teammates still fighting the enemies from two spawns ago because they don't notice that the bosses don't just fold like minions and then whole "Why should I take taunt?" thing, when "Because the three bosses at the back have chain-held your two corruptors for the last 30 seconds and they're not in melee so you haven't even looked at them" is apparently not an answer people want to hear).

 

Anyway, sorry... I think I'm using this to vent about bad players more than mechanics at this point. 

This is going to be a bit long winded, but I feel it's needed in response to your reply.

 

I agree with you completely. A Troller who locks down mobs before they even group up on the Tank drive me nuts...especially if I am the Tank. Most Tanks get some type of buff for every NPC within Melee Range, and if a Toller locks them down before they group up on the Tank, the Tanks takes all the damage, without the use of the Buffs the Tank gets for having the group stacked on him. Furthermore, the AoE's from the Ranged team becomes minimal.

 

A good Controller will wait patiently until the mob stacks on the Tank, THEN lock them down.

 

If I remember correctly, in the days of the old, players were more vocal about these things on teams. You either conformed or you were kicked from the team. Players would give you one warning, and help educate you how to do things the team friendly way...if that player refused, that player was removed from the team. Eventually, when that player got tired of being kicked from teams, that player learned to stop playing selfish.

 

These days, people seem timid in saying anything at all...people just "deal with it" and that player goes on playing against the grain of the team without a clue or a care in the world. You might get one guy who says something, but the rest of the team doesn't back him up. The team stays silent due to being scared of confrontation, but then once you kick the bad player, the team thanks you after he's gone? Don't thank me! Get my back when I say something so that the player doesn't feel like I'm just picking on him!

 

I think this is why we are seeing more and more bad players in this game. It's because people are too timid to say anything and speak up. The few of us who have no issues with saying something and making an attempt to educate the player, get no help from the team until that player is gone, then all of a sudden they start agreeing with you and thank you for kicking that player? I didn't want to kick the player, I wanted to educate the player so that the player learns. But if I am the ONLY one trying to help the player fit better with a team, then I will only be viewed as an A-Hole and not a teacher, and that player will continue to drive his teammates nuts. He learns nothing and continues to play as a power spammer.

 

This I feel is the real problem. The real problem are the good players. Good players are not educating the bad ones. They are not putting on their big boy pants and trying to teach bad players. Bad player are only bad until they learn to be good. But if nobody says anything to them, guess what? They will continue to be bad players.

 

This goes for any power that can be used badly. Hurricaners, Knock Back, AoE Immobs, and even Stalkers who rush to the end of a mission and complete it when nobody on the team wanted to complete it that way.

 

This "Don't tell me how to play!" mentality only exists because we have allowed it to exist. The good players are not standing up for one another, therefore the bads go on being bads. It's our fault bad players still exist.

[Lost Ninja]

23 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

Good players are not educating the bad ones.

First define "good" and "bad". Because looking at this thread there are many who think they're good and everyone else is bad.

I played a Bots/Dark on live, with Group Fly (though I did find that the minions would melee sometimes even with it). On maps with space for me to be well off the ground I would refuse to drop it too, it was part of what made my build work. However if the team was crowded together in an Office or some of the smaller warehouses, I'd turn it off because it could be distracting for my team mates. And yes I seem to remember being kicked from teams for having a less than useful (to the team) power. (Bear in mind this was before Null.)

 

But if you're playing a team game then the onus is on you to fit into the team. Not for the team to change to fit you in.