"Safe Mode" Client May Be Going Away Soon

[Rathulfr]

33 minutes ago, quixoteprog said:

It is my understanding that all digital media lasts FOREVER, or 10 years, whichever comes first.

That explains why my floppy disks from 1997 no longer work. 😒

[Doc_Scorpion]

1 hour ago, Ulysses Dare said:

It always amuses me how people who are deeply involved in the I.T field, as I assume any Island Run developer must be, always blithely assume that replacing an old PC is a trivial exercise for users who aren't.

0.o  While I give and grant that financial issues will intervene for a minority...  The actual doing of replacing a computer is all but absolutely trivial.  Plug it in, power it up, and make a few entries from the keyboard.

[Ironblade]

7 hours ago, Ulysses Dare said:

It always amuses me how people who are deeply involved in the I.T field, as I assume any Island Run developer must be, always blithely assume that replacing an old PC is a trivial exercise for users who aren't. It also amuses me when the people who broke a program that was working fine insist the problem is my computer and not their code work.

I don't think anyone in I.T. makes those assumptions.

The simple fact is that games (and pretty much all software) change over time and become more complex and gain new features.  So you end up needing a newer computer at some point.  That's just a fact of life and it's unrealistic to think that this game is going to be an exception.  And this is not 'breaking' a program.  It's improving it.  If someone's computer isn't powerful enough to run the improved version of the software, see my first point.

[Manga]

20 hours ago, Ulysses Dare said:

It always amuses me how people who are deeply involved in the I.T field, as I assume any Island Run developer must be, always blithely assume that replacing an old PC is a trivial exercise for users who aren't. It also amuses me when the people who broke a program that was working fine insist the problem is my computer and not their code work.

I'm the only developer for Island Rum.  I don't do any coding for CoH.  The announcement I made at the top of this thread is a courtesy because I know Safe Mode going away is going to happen eventually, and I want everyone to have time to prepare as best as they can.

 

And as I said above, preparing to be able to run the 32-bit or 64-bit CoH clients means you'll probably also avoid problems with newer games, ones you might download from Steam for instance, and even future macOS or Windows updates.  It really is worth the time.

[Megajoule]

Agreed to all of the above; however, the other side of the coin (as expressed by at least one poster above) is those who can't or won't make those updates, and are running on older hardware and/or OSes, must find their entertainment in games of similar vintage.  That's what this one was; but now that it's being actively updated again, not so in the (near) future.  A game that was in that category (provided one could access it at all) is being moved out of it.

[Ulysses Dare]

18 hours ago, Ironblade said:

I don't think anyone in I.T. makes those assumptions.

The simple fact is that games (and pretty much all software) change over time and become more complex and gain new features.  So you end up needing a newer computer at some point.  That's just a fact of life and it's unrealistic to think that this game is going to be an exception.  And this is not 'breaking' a program.  It's improving it.  If someone's computer isn't powerful enough to run the improved version of the software, see my first point.

Thank you for perfectly illustrating the assumption that you just said no one in I.T. makes.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Ulysses Dare

[WanderingAries]

On ‎11‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 1:59 PM, Rathulfr said:

That explains why my floppy disks from 1997 no longer work. 😒

Na, that's your $%^& Magnetism that reversed the polarity of the medium. ;)

[Williwaw]

10 hours ago, Manga said:

I'm the only developer for Island Rum.  I don't do any coding for CoH.  The announcement I made at the top of this thread is a courtesy because I know Safe Mode going away is going to happen eventually, and I want everyone to have time to prepare as best as they can.

 

And as I said above, preparing to be able to run the 32-bit or 64-bit CoH clients means you'll probably also avoid problems with newer games, ones you might download from Steam for instance, and even future macOS or Windows updates.  It really is worth the time.

I already can't run half my Steam games because 10.10 is too new to run them (like Strong Bad's Cool Game For Attractive People and Poker Night at the Inventory).  I'm afraid Poker Night 2 will stop running. :(

[Ironblade]

4 hours ago, Ulysses Dare said:

Thank you for perfectly illustrating the assumption that you just said no one in I.T. makes.

(shrug) Clearly, you misread my post or don't remember the content of your post that I quoted.

 

" It always amuses me how people who are deeply involved in the I.T field, as I assume any Island Run developer must be, always blithely assume that replacing an old PC is a trivial exercise for users who aren't. "

No one with a clue assumes this.  Just as no one would assume that buying a new car after a crash is a trivial exercise.  It's just necessary.  If you want to run new software, at some point you will need a new computer.  Whether it's a trivial task or a herculean task is irrelevant.

[Manga]

13 hours ago, Ironblade said:

No one with a clue assumes this.  Just as no one would assume that buying a new car after a crash is a trivial exercise.  It's just necessary.  If you want to run new software, at some point you will need a new computer.  Whether it's a trivial task or a herculean task is irrelevant.

What's funny is, it's the greed of the pre-MMO gaming industry that made a lot of people from that era believe that games should release, and then stay frozen in that state forever - because they didn't want to spend money working on updates, and wanted you to buy the next shiny game instead.  In those cases, it makes sense to have one computer for it and never upgrade it, so you can always play that one game.  MMO's changed that rule so it constantly changes, and you have to constantly upgrade to keep up.

 

We do still have a few people though who want and expect CoH to always run on the oldest rig that supported it from 2005, and some who take that further and assert that the devs have a responsibility to make certain it will always work on that rig from 2005.  Unfortunately, the reality is that not only do we need to keep up with modern tech, but the tools to build applications that old start to become deprecated and fall apart.  So it's not that we want to push you all to upgrade to a new shiny computer; in some cases, on the development side, we no longer have the choice.

[Abraxus]

Such a strange conundrum.  Folks want the shiny new features, and to see the game advance/grow.  But, when that kind of advancement comes with the cost of legacy support, then things change a bit.  Bottom line folks.  CoH will undergo changes, because that's what we constantly ask the Devs to do for us.  The price of that change will be moving the line of legacy support up a bit to allow those changes to be implemented using modern tools.  It's been great having that legacy support go back as far as it has to this point.  But, that was never going to last forever if we wanted the game to grow.   Some will be left behind due to inability, or unwillingness to upgrade to keep up.  That is regrettable, as I don't ever want to lose a single player.  I want to see us grow always.  But, in order to move forward, lines inevitably have to be drawn.  Nobody is being targeted, or marginalized.  It's simply a matter of keeping up to minimum requirements, or not.  Other games, and newer versions of games always raise the bar.  There is no reason to expect that CoH would not be the same.

[Myrmidon]

[boggo2300]

On 11/28/2019 at 4:22 AM, Abraxus said:

Such a strange conundrum.  Folks want the shiny new features, and to see the game advance/grow.  But, when that kind of advancement comes with the cost of legacy support, then things change a bit.  Bottom line folks.  CoH will undergo changes, because that's what we constantly ask the Devs to do for us.  The price of that change will be moving the line of legacy support up a bit to allow those changes to be implemented using modern tools.  It's been great having that legacy support go back as far as it has to this point.  But, that was never going to last forever if we wanted the game to grow.   Some will be left behind due to inability, or unwillingness to upgrade to keep up.  That is regrettable, as I don't ever want to lose a single player.  I want to see us grow always.  But, in order to move forward, lines inevitably have to be drawn.  Nobody is being targeted, or marginalized.  It's simply a matter of keeping up to minimum requirements, or not.  Other games, and newer versions of games always raise the bar.  There is no reason to expect that CoH would not be the same.

To a degree,  but it's not just the shiny new features,  it's to the stage that patching together the mess the software is has become increasingly difficult using the out of date, and out of support developer tools,  it's at the to keep what we have stable and able to support the size of the Homecoming community the back end HAS to be modernised or it will completely collapse, It will definitely allow new and awesome stuff but it HAS to happen for the game to continue to run (homecoming do not have the personnel resources NC-Soft had to bandaid the game to keep it running, it's fix it or it collapses)

[Abraxus]

Evolution is, for sure, three things. 

 

1. Inevitable

2. Typically painful in some way

3. Absolutely necessary

 

In order to remain viable from a support/development perspective, changes become necessary that will only be possible if certain parts of the code are improved/modified to the point where it won't work for everyone.  In the end, improvement is realized for the greater good.  For those potentially left behind, it will require some evolution on their part.  There will be some that won't be able to do so for various reasons, and while I dislike that eventuality, said improvements can't be held up indefinitely to accommodate, and I don't think anyone would reasonably expect that to be the case.

Edited November 29, 2019 by Abraxus

[boggo2300]

3 hours ago, Abraxus said:

Evolution is, for sure, three things. 

 

1. Inevitable

2. Typically painful in some way

3. Absolutely necessary

 

In order to remain viable from a support/development perspective, changes become necessary that will only be possible if certain parts of the code are improved/modified to the point where it won't work for everyone.  In the end, improvement is realized for the greater good.  For those potentially left behind, it will require some evolution on their part.  There will be some that won't be able to do so for various reasons, and while I dislike that eventuality, said improvements can't be held up indefinitely to accommodate, and I don't think anyone would reasonably expect that to be the case.

plus

 

It's @Manga's fault!

 

HI Manga 😈

[Number Six]

12 hours ago, boggo2300 said:

To a degree,  but it's not just the shiny new features,  it's to the stage that patching together the mess the software is has become increasingly difficult using the out of date, and out of support developer tools,  it's at the to keep what we have stable and able to support the size of the Homecoming community the back end HAS to be modernised or it will completely collapse, It will definitely allow new and awesome stuff but it HAS to happen for the game to continue to run (homecoming do not have the personnel resources NC-Soft had to bandaid the game to keep it running, it's fix it or it collapses)

Even Paragon dropped support for older operating systems at some point -- I remember some yelling when they dropped Windows 2000 support and updated the minimum requirements to XP Service Pack 3.

 

We're not even doing that. We're attempting to maintain support for those older systems, and have jumped through a lot of hoops to do it. The 32-bit client is built with newer tools, but built in a way that it should be compatible even on XP and old versions of wine on Linux/MacOS. That's the compatibility path going forward, while the 64-bit client is intended for newer systems.

 

Unfortunately we don't have the resources to actually test on all of those old systems, so sometimes things break and I understand that's why some people are still running the legacy ("safe mode") client. What we need from those people is to stay engaged, make sure we know that they're having problems (some of you are already doing this, thanks for letting us know!), and help in tracking down the issues. Right now it's a manual process, though once the new crash handler is fully rolled out and activated there will be an easier way to gather data from those who choose to opt in.

[Williwaw]

The problem I'm having is that the new installer tries to install and run the game through Wine 4.0, which doesn't appear to be Mac OS 10.10 compatible.  If there was a Wine 3.0 installer (or even a way to select what version of Wine that Island Rum installed), then it might work.

 

Emphasis, of course, on "might" (but it seems likely, because trying to install Wine 4.0 is where it always chokes for me).

[Manga]

5 hours ago, Williwaw said:

The problem I'm having is that the new installer tries to install and run the game through Wine 4.0, which doesn't appear to be Mac OS 10.10 compatible.  If there was a Wine 3.0 installer (or even a way to select what version of Wine that Island Rum installed), then it might work.

 

Emphasis, of course, on "might" (but it seems likely, because trying to install Wine 4.0 is where it always chokes for me).

The packaged Wine requires at least 10.12, which is not too far from where you are.  You should be able to easily upgrade to 10.12.

 

You could use the Wineskin client instead, but there's no guarantee of its reliability going forward - Winekin itself has been abandoned by its author.

[Dugunthi]

On 11/19/2019 at 6:03 PM, carroto said:

If the safe mode client goes away the game will be unplayable for me.  I'm running it under wine on Ubuntu Linux.  I've tried both the 32 and 64-bit clients and can't get either to run.  They crash and exit immediately.  I've been hoping that there would be a new guide for Linux users but haven't come across any updated instructions.

 

Same for Mids', unfortunately.  It seems that Mac users have better community support getting all this stuff to work.

If you start wine-games using the CLI, you should receive a log of everything that happens in the CLI, including any errors that pop up. Might give you a hint as to what's causing the crash. At least it works like that for starting Steam on Linux, helped me figure out a lot of missing dependencies and other issues back when I was devoutly non-Windows.

[Thorazine]

Hadn't played in several days, when I logged on Monday regular would not work and crashes, so now only Safe Mode works, so I hope this is not true!

[boggo2300]

2 hours ago, Thorazine said:

Hadn't played in several days, when I logged on Monday regular would not work and crashes, so now only Safe Mode works, so I hope this is not true!

It is both true and inevitable, though I don't believe a firm date has been set yet, just soon^tm

[War Widget]

I play safe mode because my gamepad works on it...it doesn't work on the others...any advice on how to get gamepad to work on 64

[Sakai]

zdDse

[Warmule]

Please, please do not remove safe mode until El Capitan is supported!  Many Mac users aren’t able to upgrade beyond that OS.

 

I’m a software developer, and will be happy to test and debug older (El Capitan) to help fix the situation before a lot of users lose access to COH.

 

THANKS!

Edited December 22, 2019 by Warmule

[Abraxus]

On 12/22/2019 at 10:06 AM, Warmule said:

Please, please do not remove safe mode until El Capitan is supported!  Many Mac users aren’t able to upgrade beyond that OS.

 

I’m a software developer, and will be happy to test and debug older (El Capitan) to help fix the situation before a lot of users lose access to COH.

 

THANKS!

Wasn't the point of the 64-bit client at least partially driven by the El Capitan migration, which took away 32-bit support?  Now that the 64-bit client is done, it should allow you to continue to play without interruption.