It’s the people stupid!

[Snarky]

What makes City of Heroes different. Already answered.  And the stupid comment was self directed

 

i wanted to point out in my own Snarky way how great our community has always been. And I played Redside freedumb for over a year.  As juvenile as that was it is leaps and bounds better than anything else.  The Freedom experience was lessons in being villainous with style more than childish and petty.  Impatient sure but a lot of style

 

i spoke with a friend whose wife has played WoW for over ten years. Dungeons raids multiple topped out characters. She had three volumes she has written on WoW lore and guidance. She still has to put up with negativity regularly. 

 

I wont even run high level WoW because I only have a little over a year training there so I just do quest lines. They are way worse than Freedom ever was

 

i can recall once since Homecoming came back that I had to shut somebody down in LFG for smacktalking me.  With a name like Snarky you would think they would not even try....but yeah.  On WoW it’s a nightly occurence to be insulted if you talk.  It is their culture

 

I recall an in game memorial for a player that passed back on live.  /em holdtorch while everyone who knew her spoke up.  I just happened on it in Talos while running missions

 

Thank you all for being the best community on the MMORPG list. For not breaking out a spreadsheet on my low damage ice Blasters. For being the greatest PUGs of all time

 

Happy Holidays

 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2019 by Snarky
Spelling

[Jeneki]

9 minutes ago, Snarky said:

It’s the people stupid!

You tell everybody. Listen to me Hatcher! You've gotta tell 'em! STUPID IS PEOPLE! We gotta stop them! Somehow!

Edited November 26, 2019 by Jeneki

[Pengatron]

That's one thing about CoH that I have appreciated over the years, both in the original game and this Homecoming one.

 

It is extremely rare to encounter any rude, condescending, elitist, or otherwise anti-social players in this game.

Almost everyone is courteous to each other and friendly.

And if some "jerk-head" does show up in a chat channel, he is quickly put in his place by the rest of the population.

 

Let's all keep it that way. If you want a toxic social environment, go play WoW.

 

[Solarverse]

On 11/26/2019 at 5:44 PM, Pengatron said:

 

Let's all keep it that way. If you want a toxic social environment, go play WoW.

 

This right here. WoW will never get  dime from me because the players tolerate this crap. It's like every a-hole on the planet converged in to one place...and it's called WoW. Now, if we could just drop a nuke on WoW, it would rid the world of the a-hole population once and for all.

[THEDarkTyger]

3 hours ago, Solarverse said:

This right here. WoW will never get  dime from me because the players tolerate this crap. It's like every a-hole on the planet converged in to one place...and it's called WoW. Now, if we could just drop a nuke on WoW, it would rid the world of the a-hole population once and for all.

In all honestly, being a current WoW player, I don't see the ratio of "toxic" players in WoW being any higher these days than anywhere else on the net on average. The raw numbers are higher because its population is so high, but proportionally about on par with the general populace.

[GM Sijin]

7 hours ago, Solarverse said:

Now, if we could just drop a nuke on WoW, it would rid the world of the a-hole population once and for all.

Condemning another community in the same breath as claiming City's is such a good one leans a bit hypocritical.

 

Focus on the positives. There are fantastic people in pretty much every gaming community. The majority of any large gaming community are the quiet masses that generally just ignore the vocal minority. Managing tens of thousands of people is pretty difficult, let alone millions. Could they do better? Sure, but so can we, and so can everyone else.

 

You want to prove our community is one of the best? Curb the knee-jerk reaction of attacking something you don't agree with. Be inclusive. Be patient. Seek understanding. Forgive that everyone has bad days. Anyone who is willing to play by the rules should feel welcome to join into the community without seeing something they may love being condemned. Treat others with respect even if they don't seem terribly inclined at the moment to reciprocate. And if someone isn't willing to play by the rules and wants to be a toxic person? Notify us using the tools available and let us do our part. These people almost always are seeking to disrupt the norms and get people riled up. Don't fall for the ruse if someone simply doesn't respond to reason.

 

Being a fantastic community means staying positive, especially when it's easy and tempting not to. It means responding to criticisms objectively. It means responding to aggression with compassion. It means doing so for everyone, not just our fellow City dwellers.

 

I'm thankful for the City community. I have been since I found it. I hope that I always will be.

 

Be excellent to one another.

[boggo2300]

7 hours ago, GM Sijin said:

Be excellent to one another.

I con Rogue, I'm therefore only excellent to people who pay me

 

WELL  (rates can be negotiated for any interested, for those not interested, join that queue,  the far one...)   😈

[Extor Prime]

Of course I read the title as "Is the people stupid!" and my answer was "Yes, it are."

[Solarverse]

13 hours ago, GM Sijin said:

Be excellent to one another.

The thing is, in City of Heroes, if an A-hole comes in to LFG and starts acting the way players act in WoW, the guy/gal gets booed off the stage and sent home packing. Being tolerant of this as you suggest only enables this behavior on a psychological level. Flocks of a feather stick together. If the A-hole personality is stamped out as soon as it shows it's face, i t discourages this behavior...we all know that if there is no consequence for behaving badly, then people will go on behaving badly. This is one of the many things I love about this community....bad behavior is not tolerated and will be met head on. Those people either change their behavior or they leave.

 

Your stance on the subject is honorable and I respect that, however, I don't believe that will accomplish the goal of keeping this community free of trolls and toxic behavior. The only people who can keep this community the way it has been since its release, is us...the great community that I have come to know over the years who hold bad behavior from people accountable.

 

I can't tell you how many times I have seen over the years a troll get on Broadcasting or LFG channel raising hell and trolling other players, just to be met with an onslaught of players with higher standards shut the troll down and run that troll off stage. If players were not vigilant in this way, those trolling "players" would still be at it to this very day and I believe there would be a lot more of them.

 

WoW on the other hand, the players tolerates this bad behavior. It's the very reason I refuse to play WoW. I played for 3 months, and that was 3 months of my life that I will never get back. The players there were absolutely rude, obnoxious and downright toxic, both in game and on their forums. I get where you are coming from, and in a perfect world I believe your ideology would be exactly how situations like this should be handled. However, in my personal experience this simply does not work and only enables toxic behavior from toxic people.

 

I may be wrong in my thoughts on this subject, I may be right. But regardless if I am right or if I am wrong, this is my thoughts on the subject and why I think on these terms. Keep in mind, I was born and raised in the military, and I think my thoughts on the subject reflect this. It may very well be why you and I disagree on how toxic behavior should be handled.

 

I do however agree with what I quoted from you...be excellent to one another indeed.  🙂 

 

 

[Twisted Toon]

20 hours ago, Solarverse said:

The thing is, in City of Heroes, if an A-hole comes in to LFG and starts acting the way players act in WoW, the guy/gal gets booed off the stage and sent home packing. Being tolerant of this as you suggest only enables this behavior on a psychological level. Flocks of a feather stick together. If the A-hole personality is stamped out as soon as it shows it's face, i t discourages this behavior...we all know that if there is no consequence for behaving badly, then people will go on behaving badly. This is one of the many things I love about this community....bad behavior is not tolerated and will be met head on. Those people either change their behavior or they leave.

 

Your stance on the subject is honorable and I respect that, however, I don't believe that will accomplish the goal of keeping this community free of trolls and toxic behavior. The only people who can keep this community the way it has been since its release, is us...the great community that I have come to know over the years who hold bad behavior from people accountable.

 

I can't tell you how many times I have seen over the years a troll get on Broadcasting or LFG channel raising hell and trolling other players, just to be met with an onslaught of players with higher standards shut the troll down and run that troll off stage. If players were not vigilant in this way, those trolling "players" would still be at it to this very day and I believe there would be a lot more of them.

 

WoW on the other hand, the players tolerates this bad behavior. It's the very reason I refuse to play WoW. I played for 3 months, and that was 3 months of my life that I will never get back. The players there were absolutely rude, obnoxious and downright toxic, both in game and on their forums. I get where you are coming from, and in a perfect world I believe your ideology would be exactly how situations like this should be handled. However, in my personal experience this simply does not work and only enables toxic behavior from toxic people.

 

I may be wrong in my thoughts on this subject, I may be right. But regardless if I am right or if I am wrong, this is my thoughts on the subject and why I think on these terms. Keep in mind, I was born and raised in the military, and I think my thoughts on the subject reflect this. It may very well be why you and I disagree on how toxic behavior should be handled.

 

I do however agree with what I quoted from you...be excellent to one another indeed.  🙂 

 

 

One thing I have noticed, from personal experience, is that bullies, whether they be physical or verbal, are looking for a reaction. I have found, that the best way for me to deal with them is to not give them what they want. I have ignored a lot of people that tried bullying me. They finally gave up unsatisfied because they didn't get what they wanted from me. I try to share this nugget with as many people who are bullied as I can. Unfortunately, many of them don't seem to get it, or don't have much self control...or both.

[Techwright]

On 11/26/2019 at 5:24 PM, Snarky said:

i can recall once since Homecoming came back that I had to shut somebody down in LFG for smacktalking me.  With a name like Snarky you would think they would not even try....but yeah.  

 

Some would see the name "Snarky" as a challenge, not an invitation to back down.

[Abraxus]

We're not perfect.  But, we collectively aspire to be better than we are, and better than other places we have been.  Perhaps, that's the real difference.

[GM Sijin]

On 11/29/2019 at 10:51 AM, Solarverse said:

Being tolerant of this as you suggest only enables this behavior on a psychological level. Flocks of a feather stick together. If the A-hole personality is stamped out as soon as it shows it's face, i t discourages this behavior...we all know that if there is no consequence for behaving badly, then people will go on behaving badly. This is one of the many things I love about this community....bad behavior is not tolerated and will be met head on. Those people either change their behavior or they leave.

 

Your stance on the subject is honorable and I respect that, however, I don't believe that will accomplish the goal of keeping this community free of trolls and toxic behavior. The only people who can keep this community the way it has been since its release, is us...the great community that I have come to know over the years who hold bad behavior from people accountable.

Oh, don't mistake my meaning. You can react with compassion and still not tolerate bad behavior. All I meant by that is not making a judgement on a single interaction. Perhaps the person is just having an off day or had a lapse in judgement. Hence my suggestion to report bad actors, those violating the CoC. I applaud the community's self-policing efforts, but the Homecoming team are here to enforce the rules. We do not tolerate toxic behavior. We don't want it on our servers. We're well aware it isn't conducive to a fun experience. And we will take action to those who can't behave themselves.

[Rathulfr]

On 11/28/2019 at 10:54 PM, GM Sijin said:

Be excellent to one another.

And party on, dudes!

/em air guitar riff

[jubakumbi]

I just don't see it.

From my PoV, the City community is no different than any other one, it never has been.

This community has its share of good and bad, just like all the others.

 

I have had my very worst MMO player experiences in CoH and I have had many better player experiences in other MMOs.

 

Personally, I find the level of righteous arrogance this community has about how wonderful it is to be some serious rose-colored glasses by a few people that choose to see what they want to see.

And watch out if you if you are anything but a 'yes man' to this group, they will vilify and demean you faster than any 'toxic' community in any other game I have played.

 

There are some really good people here, there are some really terrible people here, just like everywhere else, this community is not some shining star of human behaviour, IME, at all, just an average sampling.

 

Happy Holidays.

Be excellent to each other.

Live in reality.

[Lost Ninja]

On 11/30/2019 at 3:23 PM, Twisted Toon said:

One thing I have noticed, from personal experience, is that bullies, whether they be physical or verbal, are looking for a reaction. I have found, that the best way for me to deal with them is to not give them what they want. I have ignored a lot of people that tried bullying me. They finally gave up unsatisfied because they didn't get what they wanted from me. I try to share this nugget with as many people who are bullied as I can. Unfortunately, many of them don't seem to get it, or don't have much self control...or both.

I was bullied throughout my time at school (probably why I have a single GCSE which I took at FE college). I was the fat kid that cried easily, I was the bullies drug and even changing schools didn't stop it.

 

With the benefit of hindsight I know how to deal with bullies, getting the message to the those being bullied now (kids or otherwise) is the hard part. It's often very easy for people to say "just ignore them", it's much harder to do so when you're actually being physically and mentally abused.

 

Sticks and stones might break my bones but it's the words that will kill me...

[Solarverse]

7 hours ago, jubakumbi said:

I just don't see it.

From my PoV, the City community is no different than any other one, it never has been.

This community has its share of good and bad, just like all the others.

 

I have had my very worst MMO player experiences in CoH and I have had many better player experiences in other MMOs.

 

Personally, I find the level of righteous arrogance this community has about how wonderful it is to be some serious rose-colored glasses by a few people that choose to see what they want to see.

And watch out if you if you are anything but a 'yes man' to this group, they will vilify and demean you faster than any 'toxic' community in any other game I have played.

 

There are some really good people here, there are some really terrible people here, just like everywhere else, this community is not some shining star of human behaviour, IME, at all, just an average sampling.

 

Happy Holidays.

Be excellent to each other.

Live in reality.

I think it's just you. Judging from what I have witnessed, you're very confrontational at times and it seems to attract the attention of others in a negative way, most of which (not always) I feel you bring on yourself.

 

I can be a bit confrontational myself sometimes...I'm good at it. However, I carefully pick and choose my battles, where you seem to enter the battlefield at every opportunity.

 

This may explain your common bad experiences, where the rest of us don't seem to share that experience with you, but instead feel an overwhelming majority of players are good and decent folks.

 

From my point of view, bad apples are very far and few between in this game. Whereas other games the bad apples are far more prevalent. 

[EmmySky]

I have found that in life and in game, you get what you give.  I try to be as even-mannered as possible and kind to people I come across and that's what I seem to get in return.  There will always be the one-off hatemonger who seems to, honestly, mostly be jealous of my happiness and good moods but I keep smiling. 

 

If there is a bully situation in this community, I havent seen it.  If there is an elitist group somewhere, I havent found them.  I have found those random one-offs who think they are Gods gift to us or those who just want to start arguments.  Those are rare in my experience.  

 

I have no experience in WoW or other MMO communities, but I think that, overall, we are doing just fine here.  

 

Keep smiling 😁

[Snarky]

On 11/30/2019 at 10:21 AM, Techwright said:

Some would see the name "Snarky" as a challenge, not an invitation to back down.

I suppose some will. Of course some idiots look at a tall icy mountain and think it would be neat to climb it

[Twisted Toon]

6 hours ago, Lost Ninja said:

I was bullied throughout my time at school (probably why I have a single GCSE which I took at FE college). I was the fat kid that cried easily, I was the bullies drug and even changing schools didn't stop it.

 

With the benefit of hindsight I know how to deal with bullies, getting the message to the those being bullied now (kids or otherwise) is the hard part. It's often very easy for people to say "just ignore them", it's much harder to do so when you're actually being physically and mentally abused.

 

Sticks and stones might break my bones but it's the words that will kill me...

Changing your mind-set is one of the hardest things to do...Especially the older you get.

[jubakumbi]

15 hours ago, Solarverse said:

I think it's just you. Judging from what I have witnessed, you're very confrontational at times and it seems to attract the attention of others in a negative way, most of which (not always) I feel you bring on yourself.

 

I can be a bit confrontational myself sometimes...I'm good at it. However, I carefully pick and choose my battles, where you seem to enter the battlefield at every opportunity.

 

This may explain your common bad experiences, where the rest of us don't seem to share that experience with you, but instead feel an overwhelming majority of players are good and decent folks.

 

From my point of view, bad apples are very far and few between in this game. Whereas other games the bad apples are far more prevalent. 

I am simply blunt, which I know to many people is considered confrontational, rude, and uncouth, even if I am not attempting any of those things, because I bring up points that many find uncomfortable to discuss.

I start conversations by getting down to brass tacks, not 'how are the kids and the spouse?'

I choose to address and talk about the things that are real issues, like how we treat each other as humans, not if the bonus on that attack should be +1 or +2.

So, I am quite used to the 'static' many people think I create by not conforming tp the lingustic interlocks many people prefer at every human exchange.

It's not that, I am well versed there, I know when I have caused someone to be uncomfortable most of the time.

 

What I am talking about are things that I have seen in this community where I have have had no involvement.

 

City of Heroes is the only game I have ever been playing in which the leader of the big raid doubled down on the thier thinking that the developers should be killed.

I clarified, thinking it hyperbole, but no, the person was serious, the developers should be put to death because of something they did not like about an interface.

I stopped playing incarnet raids on my server because this person was one of the main leaders.

City of Heroes is the only game in which I have seen people kicked off of teams for nothing more than a lack of badges (winter baby).

City of Heroes is the only MMO I have played that had players demand other players use or not use specific powers or be kicked.

City of Heores is the only game I have played where some players think others should be banned for not being creative enough to satisfy them.

We even have people at this stage who are determined anything not added by the 'original team' is _wrong_ for even existing.

I can go on.

 

I have seen plenty of snark in other MMOs and games over the years, but what I see in City of Heroes has been direct, targetted hate toward anyone and everyone that would even suggest something new or different, even when we are at the point we all know nothing huge could even be changed, the mere suggestion brings down holy hell.

 

I just prefer in my delusion to try and look at things objectively.

I have had hundreds if not thousands of hours in game with friends and solo over the years.

IME, this group of people is no different at scale than any other group of game playing humans, this group is not some 'cut above' even if the it want's to delude itself.

 

Even here, by saying I don't think the CoH community is 'better', it's taken as as me thinking it's 'bad', which is not true, I just think it's it's average, no better and no worse than any other online game community, IME.

 

The moment a group of people decide they are 'better' than other groups is the moment, IME, that group loses all relevance and credibility. TBH.

[Solarverse]

45 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

Snip

That sounds pretty messed up. What server are you on? I know a guy who requires you to have certain badges for certain TF's, but those runs are to obtain no death badges and whatnot. So I cant blame someone for requiring your character to be up to snuff before inviting a player to join something like that. 

[jubakumbi]

8 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

That sounds pretty messed up. What server are you on? I know a guy who requires you to have certain badges for certain TF's, but those runs are to obtain no death badges and whatnot. So I cant blame someone for requiring your character to be up to snuff before inviting a player to join something like that. 

All on Pinnacle back in the day.

As I have said, the general population on HC has been fine, IME, in-game, the hate I have seen has been on these forums, not in the game.

 

 

I think it is short sighted and ill-informed to think that the entire population of the City community is 'better' simply because a few posters on the forums have had mostly positive experiences.

 

People are people, some good, some bad, but mostly somewhere in the middle, and all of the good vs bad is just made up human drama anyway, that all starts with one group thinking is better than another, IME.

 

When you have people that literally think they way they play is 'right' and that others are 'wrong' when they do not conform, I don't find that to foster a 'better' community.

[gamingglen]

1 hour ago, jubakumbi said:

City of Heroes is the only game I have ever been playing in which the leader of the big raid doubled down on the thier thinking that the developers should be killed.

I clarified, thinking it hyperbole, but no, the person was serious, the developers should be put to death because of something they did not like about an interface.

I stopped playing incarnet raids on my server because this person was one of the main leaders.

City of Heroes is the only game in which I have seen people kicked off of teams for nothing more than a lack of badges (winter baby).

City of Heroes is the only MMO I have played that had players demand other players use or not use specific powers or be kicked.

City of Heores is the only game I have played where some players think others should be banned for not being creative enough to satisfy them.

We even have people at this stage who are determined anything not added by the 'original team' is _wrong_ for even existing.

I can go on.

 

I'm not going to quote everything, but I side with jubakumbi on this.  I've seen some of these things, too, and wonder about those who think the community is so great.  Are these the people that put anyone with any sort of negativity or disagreement on their ignore list so they only see the "good" things?  Some people bragged about how large their ignore list is... doesn't that say something about them?  I will put someone on ignore for a short time, but after a few days I'll remove everyone and have no one on my ignore list. I see the warts others are hiding away from.

 

This was on live, Homecoming has been pretty dang good.

Edited December 2, 2019 by gamingglen

[Oubliette_Red]

On 11/28/2019 at 10:54 PM, GM Sijin said:

Condemning another community in the same breath as claiming City's is such a good one leans a bit hypocritical.

 

Focus on the positives. There are fantastic people in pretty much every gaming community. The majority of any large gaming community are the quiet masses that generally just ignore the vocal minority. Managing tens of thousands of people is pretty difficult, let alone millions. Could they do better? Sure, but so can we, and so can everyone else.

 

You want to prove our community is one of the best? Curb the knee-jerk reaction of attacking something you don't agree with. Be inclusive. Be patient. Seek understanding. Forgive that everyone has bad days. Anyone who is willing to play by the rules should feel welcome to join into the community without seeing something they may love being condemned. Treat others with respect even if they don't seem terribly inclined at the moment to reciprocate. And if someone isn't willing to play by the rules and wants to be a toxic person? Notify us using the tools available and let us do our part. These people almost always are seeking to disrupt the norms and get people riled up. Don't fall for the ruse if someone simply doesn't respond to reason.

 

Being a fantastic community means staying positive, especially when it's easy and tempting not to. It means responding to criticisms objectively. It means responding to aggression with compassion. It means doing so for everyone, not just our fellow City dwellers.

 

I'm thankful for the City community. I have been since I found it. I hope that I always will be.

 

Be excellent to one another.

On 12/1/2019 at 3:36 AM, Rathulfr said:

And party on, dudes!

/em air guitar riff

 

Station!