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Patch Notes for January 18th, 2020 - Issue 26, Page 4 (Release Candidate 3)

The Curator

By The Curator
in [Open Beta] Patch Notes

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The Curator

The Curator

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Issue 26, Page 4 (Release Candidate 3)

This is a Release Candidate. This means that this patch contains files as they would go to the Live servers; because of this, several Pineapple features like all the Merit recipes being free and a bunch of badges being awarded at character creation are disabled. Those features will come back once the Release Candidate set of patches is done and we go back to regular Experimental or Beta patches. Commands such as levelupxp, influence and boostset should still be available.

 

The Pineapple database has been reset. Use the Beta Account Center to copy characters from the Live servers into Pineapple.

 

The Mission Architect database has been synced up with the Live servers.

 

Changes from RC2

  • Fixed missing "Do Not Tint" flag in many pet powers.
  • Fixed Epic pool damage tables for Soul Mastery and Ice Mastery.
    • This is to bring it in line with what the patch notes actually say - not a new change.
  • Fixed various text errors on power customization for some armor sets.

 

Changes from RC1

  • Fixed the crash handler not triggering if the install path contained any spaces.
  • Fixed a crash relating to summoning certain Lore pets.
  • Removed some experimental costume format code (to return at a later date).
  • Minor tweaks and fixes to Tanker powers and descriptions.

 

Safe Mode

This patch includes a new version of Safe Mode that is based on the 32-Bit client but with a different launch configuration. If you are unable to launch the 32-Bit client normally, try this version of Safe Mode and report the results in the relevant thread.

 

Tanker & Brute Changes

Scaling & Stats

  • Tanker:
    • Ranged damage modifier increased from 0.5 to 0.8, Melee damage modifier increased from 0.8 to 0.95,
      • Bruise has been removed in favour of a flat damage scale increase.
    • Buff modifiers increased to match Controller values.
    • Damage buff cap increased from 400% to 500%.
  • Brute:
    • Ranged and Melee damage modifiers are now equal at 0.75.
    • Damage buff cap lowered from 775% to 700%.
  • All Brute and Tanker Epic pools now use ranged damage modifiers.
    • Note that due to the above changes, Epic Pools should see no damage change at all.

 

AoEs

  • Most Tanker Melee AoE powers have had their target caps increased. 
    • Most cones now have a 10 target cap. 
    • Most PBAoEs now have a 16 target cap.
  • Tanker now gets an inherent buff to the radius of AoE attacks and arc of cones.
    • +50% for AoEs.
    • +100% for cones.
    •  Some powers are unaffected by this buff. This is noted on the power description.

 

Brute Fury Generation

  • Hitting AVs no longer gives bonus Fury, but Fury generation for attacking has been increased in a variety of ways:
  • Brute Fury generation now takes into account the cast time of the attack for successful hits.
    • Any attack slower than brawl will now generate bonus Fury if it lands a hit.
  • Brutes now get bonus fury generation in teams - the larger the team, the larger the bonus.
  • Fury now takes 10 seconds without attacking to start its accelerated decay, instead of 5 seconds.
  • The goal of these changes is to improve Fury generation in teams when the Brute is not the only brute, or is in the company of another tanking AT.


Gauntlet & PunchVoke

  • Gauntlet is now applied via a global proc.
    • Any single target power that takes endurance cost enhancements will trigger an AoE taunt.
    • Every AoE power that takes endurance cost enhancements will taunt the enemies it hit.
    • All Auras that take endurance cost enhancements will taunt the enemies they hit.
    • Radius is now the same for all attacks (10ft, 5 targets max)
    • Taunt scale is now 10% higher than the Brute's.
  • Brute PunchVoke is now also applied via a global proc.
    • Any power that either inflicts damage or takes accuracy enhancements will trigger PunchVoke.

 
Power Acquisition Levels

To improve Tanker AoE capability during level up progression, the following powers had their acquisition levels changed:

  • Battle Axe > Whirling Axe = 20, Swoop = 28
  • Martial Arts > Dragon Tail = 20, Focus Chi = 28, Crippling Axe Kick = 35
  • Stone Melee> Tremor = 28, Hurl Boulder = 35 
  • War Mace > Whirling Mace = 20, Clobber = 28


Taunt Auras

  • Brute and Tanker Ice Armor powers no longer have built-in Taunt, they are now instead covered by the inherent global proc.

 

Other Changes

  • The following tanker and brute powers should now accept regular Taunt Enhancements:
    • Oppressive Gloom, Cloak of Fear, Burn (note that burn patches don't taunt, only the up-front damage does.)
  • Spines: Spine Burst> No longer ignores Radius buffs.
  • Spines: Quills > Now ignore Radius buffs.
  • Burn for Brute and Tankers should also accept Taunt Sets (note that any proc on burn will not pass through to the patch.)
  • Brute > Martial Arts > Taunt / Crane Kick: Fixed incorrect power order.

 

Pets & Henchmen Updates

  • Mastermind pets which have been commanded to Stay or to Go To a location will hold that position and will not chase after targets or move closer to use powers that are out of range. Be aware this also means they will not move out of damage patches on their own.
  • Mastermind pets in Follow mode will now always stay within a 100' radius of their owner, regardless if they are in Defensive or Aggressive stance. Pets that are primarily ranged attackers will try to stay in the Supremacy radius.
  • The pet AI now ignores the aggro cap. This should prevent pets from standing around twiddling their thumbs in Incarnate Trials and other situations where many pets are attacking the same target.
  • Pets now give a strong preference to selecting targets that are within 50' of the pet's owner. This helps melee-oriented Mastermind pets stay in Supremacy range more often, while still allowing them to move and effectively engage targets outside the range.
  • A number of pets have been classified as "Ranged Only" pets. The AI for these pets will no longer change position in order to use melee powers such as Brawl. They still possess these powers and will use them opportunistically if a target is in range, but will not move in order to do so.
  • The pets that no longer move in to use melee attacks are:
    • Mercenaries > Soldiers
    • Mercenaries > Medic
    • Mercenaries > Spec Ops
    • Mercenaries > Commando
    • Necromancy > Lich
    • Robotics > Battle Drones
    • Robotics > Protector Bots
    • Robotics > Assault Bot
    • Thugs > Thugs
    • Thugs > Arsonist
    • Thugs > Enforcers

 

Powers

Combat Log

  • Combat log output has been standardized. Many powers used to report the wrong damage type and effects in the combat log, this process has fixed that, in addition to making the combat log a lot easier to parse.

 

Phantom Army

  • Added new customisation options for Phantom Army
    • Mirror (copy of current character costume)
    • Phantom Mirror (copy of current character costume with Phantom Army VFX)


Other

  • Pool > Teleportation > Long Range Teleport: This power now grants a popup tray power that allows a second chance at teleporting should you fail to teleport the first time. The Second Chance power will remain for 2 minutes or until you zone.
  • Lowered Weaken Resolve's -res debuff from scale -1.5 to scale -1.0.

 

PvP Powers Changes

  • Global Damage Procs like Hybrid Double Hit, Plant Manipulation's Toxins and  Bio Armor's Offensive Adaptation should now use PvP damage formula in PvP instead of the PvE damage formula.
  • Misc power changes:
  Reveal hidden contents
  • Mez Duration and Suppression rules have been enforced for the following enhancements:
  Reveal hidden contents
  • Mez Duration and Suppression rules have been enforced for the following powers:
  Reveal hidden contents
  • Mez Duration and Suppression rules have been enforced for the following player pet powers:
  Reveal hidden contents
  • Knockback Suppression rules have been enforced for the following powers:
  Reveal hidden contents
  • Knockback Suppression rules have been enforced for the following enhancements:
  Reveal hidden contents

 

Bases

  • Renamed "Bathroom" tab to "Bath & Kitchen"
  • Added 38 new base items created by @Naomi:
  Reveal hidden contents

 

User Interface

  • Switch to a different method of hooking the Print Screen key. This should fix the issues with using modifier keys in conjunction with it, as well as allow it to pass through to the OS so the traditional "copy to clipboard" functionality works again.
  • Resynchronize modifier key state in certain edge cases (mostly involving the numeric keypad) to try and resolve issues of the shift key rarely getting stuck.

 

Bug Fixes

  • Fix the team window showing "On mission map" when a teammate is in their Supergroup Base and vice versa.
  • Prevent immediate crash when passing a -patchdir parameter to a nonexistent directory. This seems to be happening on certain Macs.
  • Fixes for many Mapserver crashes unearthed by the new crash handler
  • Various fixes and stability improvements to the client
    • This should allow some users that were previously stuck on the Safe Mode client to now use the new client
  • Fixed a bug that allowed players to inadvertently delete the geometry of entire zones

 

Powers Fixes

  • Archery > Ranged Shot Fixed a bug where would not animate in the character customization screen.
  • Blaster Ranged > Electric Blast > Corrected an FXGEO feedback error with this power's FX.
  • Blaster Support > Atomic Manipulation > Beta Decay: Text should no longer state it taunts enemies.
  • Blaster Support > Atomic Manipulation > Electron Shackles: Should no longer accept Endurance Modification enhancements or sets.
  • Blaster Support > Psoinic Manipulation > Drain Psych: -Regeneration effect should no longer be enhanceable.
  • Dark Control > Umbra Beast: Should now accept Fear Enhancement and Sets.
  • Devices > Targeting Drone: The power description for Targeting Drone has been fixed.
  • Dominator > Fire Control > Fire Imps: Should now always summon 3 imps.
  • Dominator > Psionic Assault > Drain Psych: -Regeneration effect should no longer be enhanceable.
  • Dominator > Savage Assault > Call hawk & Feral Charge: Should no longer accept Dominator Archetype Enhancement sets.
  • Pool > Force of Will > Mighty Leap > Takeoff effect can now be cancelled.
  • Pool > Force of Will > Weaken Resolve: Fixed typos. Now accepts Accurate ToHit Debuff enhancements.
  • Gravity Control > Singularity should now apply and take advantage of the Impact mechanic.
  • Ice Melee > Frozen Fists (Brute/Stalker/Scrapper) Power Description should no longer say it adds -res.
  • Incarnate > Hybrid : Should no longer fail to shut down after zoning.
  • Martial Arts > Crippling Axe Kick: now accepts defense debuff enhancements and sets.
  • Poison Weaken and Cold Domination -Special powers should no longer be boosted by +Special powers like Power Boost. As a rule, Str effects should not be affected by other Str effects.
  • Pool > Concealment > Stealth and Invisibility: translucency issues should now, FINALLY be fixed.
  • Pool > Leaping > Spring Attack: should now do damage when used by Sentinels
  • Proton Volley's Fast-Snipe sphere FX should now tint properly.
  • Radiation Armor > Beta Decay: Taunt magnitude should now always be Mag 4
  • Radiation Melee > Contamination AoE should now reliably trigger when hitting a contaminated target.
  • Sentinel > Bio Armor > Athletic Regulation: Should no longer accept travel enhancement sets.
  • Sentinel > Energy Aura > Power Armor:  Should now accept Healing Enhancement Sets
  • Sentinel > Fire Blast > Blazing Blast: Should now do 13 ticks of damage over time.
  • Tanker Melee > Psionic Melee > Greater Psi Blade: Should no longer do AoE insight damage.
  • Temporary Powers > Ethereal Shift should shut down automatically as other Phase Shift powers.
  • Boosts > Performance Shifter > Chance for +Endurance: Should now have a chance to grant the caster Endurance if used on an offensive attack.
  • Arachnos Soldiers > Summoned Spiders should no longer play a teleport fx every 10 seconds.
  • AE Critter > Sonic Resonance > Liquefy: This power had a range of zero. It has been changed to 60ft.
  • AE Critter > Pain Domination > Soothing Aura: This power is now an Auto, as most AE versions of Toggle powers.
  • AE Critter > Force Fields > Personal Force Fields now lasts 30 seconds instead of 0.75 seconds.
  • AE Critter > Assault Rifle > Ignite: Should now properly do damage.
Edited by Captain Powerhouse
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Biosphere

Biosphere

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 1/18/2020 at 7:55 PM, The Curator said:

AoEs

  • Most Tanker Melee AoE powers have had their target caps increased. 
    • Most cones now have a 10 target cap. 
    • Most PBAoEs now have a 16 target cap.
Expand  

 

May I ask for some clarification on this change? I understand it says "most" but I keep finding different powers from sets where the numbers are all over the place and it seems really inconsistent. Here's some examples:

 

Fire Melee's AoEs are 16 target caps but then Breath of Fire, which is a cone, also says it hits 16.

 

Titan Weapons only got changed for Whirling Smash and Arc of Destruction.

 

Frost from Ice Melee is a cone but it says it hits 16 targets too. 

 

Golden Dragonfly hits 16 targets and is a cone, but then Headsplitter which is the same move just a different weapon only hits 10 targets.

 

Crowd Control hits 16 targets and is a cone, but Pendulum hits 10. Shatter hits 10 targets, but Cleave hits 16. 

 

Is this just incorrect reporting from the detailed info, or is this how it actually is? If so, what was the reasoning for these specific changes made and can we have a comprehensive list showing what got increased? By saying "most" we then have to discover the specifics for ourselves. 

 

Edited by Biosphere
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PrinceTycho

PrinceTycho

Posted
Posted
  On 1/18/2020 at 7:55 PM, The Curator said:

Phantom Army

  • Added new customisation options for Phantom Army
    • Mirror (copy of current character costume)
    • Phantom Mirror (copy of current character costume with Phantom Army VFX)
Expand  

Anyone know if this addition also applies to the 'Phantoms' Lore power? Since they use the same 'Phantom Army' graphics?

siolfir

siolfir

Posted
Posted
  On 1/19/2020 at 6:08 AM, Biosphere said:

May I ask for some clarification on this change? I understand it says "most" but I keep finding different powers from sets where the numbers are all over the place and it seems really inconsistent. Here's some examples:

Expand  

There were inconsistencies originally, where some cones had target caps of 10 and most had target caps of 5.

Generally speaking (because I don't want to go power by power) attacks that had a target cap of 10 were increased to 16, and attacks that had target caps of 5 were increased to 10.

So if you're seeing cones that have target caps of 16, they already had a cap of 10 before and it was increased to buff them.

EmperorSteele

EmperorSteele

Posted
Posted
  On 1/19/2020 at 3:06 PM, PrinceTycho said:

Anyone know if this addition also applies to the 'Phantoms' Lore power? Since they use the same 'Phantom Army' graphics?

Expand  

Not yet, but Jimmy told me it's something they're looking at. I would assume they want to do a pass at all Lore powers to make them customizable, but that's just my own theory.

Biosphere

Biosphere

Posted
Posted

May I make a request then that for future patch notes instead of saying a generic thing like "most cones went to 10, most AoEs went to 16" instead it's laid out in a format showing the specifics?

 

For example something like this:

 

AoEs

 

Most Tanker attacks have had their target caps increased.

 

The following Tanker powers now have an increased target cap of 16:

  • Frost
  • Crowd Control
  • Etc...

The following Tanker powers now have an increased target cap of 10:

 

  • Pendulum
  • Shatter
  • Etc...
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csr

csr

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 1/19/2020 at 6:08 AM, Biosphere said:

 

May I ask for some clarification on this change? I understand it says "most" but I keep finding different powers from sets where the numbers are all over the place and it seems really inconsistent. Here's some examples:

 

Fire Melee's AoEs are 16 target caps but then Breath of Fire, which is a cone, also says it hits 16.

 

Titan Weapons only got changed for Whirling Smash and Arc of Destruction.

 

Frost from Ice Melee is a cone but it says it hits 16 targets too. 

 

Golden Dragonfly hits 16 targets and is a cone, but then Headsplitter which is the same move just a different weapon only hits 10 targets.

 

Crowd Control hits 16 targets and is a cone, but Pendulum hits 10. Shatter hits 10 targets, but Cleave hits 16. 

 

Is this just incorrect reporting from the detailed info, or is this how it actually is? If so, what was the reasoning for these specific changes made and can we have a comprehensive list showing what got increased? By saying "most" we then have to discover the specifics for ourselves. 

 

Expand  

 

Here are the exceptions to the area attack target cap rules (10 for cones, 16 for spheres)).  And a possible explanation as to why.

  • Battle Axe
    • Cleave gets 16 targets instead of 10.  Has a cap of 10 in I26.3, rather than 5.  However, you're unlikely to hit 16 with a 40 degree, 10' cone.
  • Dark Melee
    • Soul Drain gets 10 targets instead of 16.  It's primarily a target-scaling self-buff rather than an attack.
  • Dual Blades
    • One Thousand Cuts gets 16 targets instead of 10.  Has a target cap of 10 in I26.3.
  • Fiery Melee
    • Breath of Fire gets 16 targets instead of 10.  Has a target cap of 10 in I26.3.
  • Ice Melee
    • Frost gets 16 targets instead of 10  Has a target cap of 10 in I26.3.
  • Katana
    • Golden Dragonfly gets 16 targets instead of 10.  Has a target cap of 10 in I26.3.  (Broadsword / Head Splitter hits only 5 in I26.3.)
  • Kinetic Melee
    • Repulsing Torrent gets 16 targets instead of 10.  Has a target cap of 10 in I26.3.
  • Spines
    • Spine Burst only gets 10 targets instead of 16.  I believe this was done because Captain Powerhouse felt Spines was over-performing with the changes.
    • Throw Spines gets 16 targets instead of 10.  Has a target cap of 10 in I26.3.
  • Titan Weapons
    • Defensive Sweep only gets 5 targets instead of 10.  Again, I think Captain Powerhouse believes Titan Weapons over-performs with the standard changes.
    • Titan Sweep only gets 5 targets instead of 10.  As above.
  • War Mace
    • Crowd Control gets 16 targets instead of 10.  Has a target cap of 10 in I26.3.

 

One power not listed above that obeys the stated rules, but would be an exception if we used "a target cap of 10 is increased to 16" as a rule instead, would be Claws / Shockwave; which hits 10 in both I26.3 and I26.4rc3.  I believe the buff to it was also skipped because Captain Powerhouse felt Claws was over-performing otherwise.  Note that it also ignores the arc increase buff, and so is unchanged from I26.3.  Making it one of only three Tanker melee set AoE damage powers (the two early Titan Weapons cones listed above being the others) that get no buff at all in I26.4rc3.  Every other one either gets more targets, more area, both or just a proc chance increase due to reduced area regained through the Inherent buff.  Spine Burst is the only power in the last category, as all the other spheres reduced from 15' to 10' also get target cap increases.  Those are Fiery Melee / Combustion, Stone Melee / Tremor, Super Strength / Foot Stomp and Titan Weapons / Whirling Smash.

 

[Edit:]  I missed the non-damaging powers that had there radii proportionately decreased.  Those are:  Stone Melee / Fault and Super Strength / Hand Clap.  Interestingly, Electrical Melee / Lightning Clap still owns a 15' radius and in this latest patch no longer ignores the buff.  I suspect that is a mistake.

 

So, yeah, there are a lot of exceptions to the stated rules, but many of those are because there are exceptions to the rules in I26.3 to begin with.

Edited by csr
clarity
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csr

csr

Posted
Posted
  On 1/19/2020 at 6:31 PM, Biosphere said:

May I make a request then that for future patch notes instead of saying a generic thing like "most cones went to 10, most AoEs went to 16" instead it's laid out in a format showing the specifics?

 

For example something like this:

 

AoEs

 

Most Tanker attacks have had their target caps increased.

 

The following Tanker powers now have an increased target cap of 16:

  • Frost
  • Crowd Control
  • Etc...

The following Tanker powers now have an increased target cap of 10:

 

  • Pendulum
  • Shatter
  • Etc...
Expand  

I'm definitely in favor of more specific information instead of rules with numerous exception you have to track down yourself.

siolfir

siolfir

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 1/19/2020 at 6:36 PM, csr said:

I believe this was done because Captain Powerhouse felt Spines was over-performing with the changes.

Expand  

No need to speculate on it: he flat out stated that was the reason in the first feedback thread.

 

Regarding TW and Shockwave:

 

Specifically calling out Spine Burst:

 

Edited by siolfir
premature posting when I hit enter in the edit window. :(
Lex Talion

Lex Talion

Posted
Posted
  On 1/18/2020 at 7:55 PM, The Curator said:

Taunt Auras

  • The following Taunt Auras now have a built-in scale 1 Taunt (approximately 13.6s at level 50), as the global Gauntlet / PunchVoke proc doesn't apply to them: 
    • Invincibility, Against All Odds, Rise to the Challenge (Brute and Tank only).
  • Brute and Tanker Ice Armor powers no longer have built-in Taunt, they are now instead covered by the inherent global proc.

 

Expand  

Where does Evasion fit in?

Drama, Horror and Mad Science

Biosphere

Biosphere

Posted
Posted

Were the benchmarks posted for why Spines was declared overperforming? What was the test used for that analysis? I tried to search for if it had been but I couldn't see anything.

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Super Homer

Super Homer

Posted
Posted

It is not a trade secret that Claws, Spines and Titan Weapons are ridiculously above average for AoE performance (to be fair, Titan Weapons is above average on every single aspect.)

golstat2003

golstat2003

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 1/19/2020 at 11:48 PM, Super Homer said:

It is not a trade secret that Claws, Spines and Titan Weapons are ridiculously above average for AoE performance (to be fair, Titan Weapons is above average on every single aspect.)

Expand  

Outside of spines/fire, I find spines to be completely underwhelming. Especially in regards to the other two you listed.

EDIT: With that said Captain P may have data that shows otherwise.

Edited by golstat2003
csr

csr

Posted
Posted
  On 1/19/2020 at 10:14 PM, Biosphere said:

Were the benchmarks posted for why Spines was declared overperforming? What was the test used for that analysis? I tried to search for if it had been but I couldn't see anything.

Expand  

No, but I think it is pretty clear that it is due to Spines having lots of AoE to begin with.  Now it gets a meaningless target cap increase to Quills (try hitting more than 10 with an 8' radius AoE where you are occupying the middle of that space yourself), a proc chance increase (and nothing else) for Spine Burst, a target cap increase for Throw Spines, and a full buff for Ripper.

 

It appears that Captain Powerhouse is using the buffs to narrow the gaps between the best AoE sets and those behind.  Unfortunately that means the best AoE sets get relatively less from the buffs due to all of the exceptions applied to their powers, while the AoE light sets get relatively less due to having little to benefit from the buffs to begin with.  So new gaps are opening up at the bottom end as the gaps at the top end narrow.

 

Dark Melee, Energy Melee and Street Justice just don't have much to benefit from the buffs.  Two of the three are good at ST at least.  Energy Melee is just not good at anything any more.  It will rank near the bottom in ST and area damage,  Mitigation is not especially good, as the reliable stuns are tied to very long animation times and a power that does very little damage and is taken by absolutely no one.  And even aggro generation will be in the bottom 3 with Dark Melee and Street Justice.

 

In the next group Stone Melee and Super Strength have little more to benefit and have those powers not getting area buffs (as their radii were reduced in reciprocal proportion), just proc chance and target cap increases.  With only one of the two powers in each set being a damage power to boot.

 

So those five low AoE sets and Spines aren't doing very well with the buffs, relatively speaking.  At least Energy Melee and Super Strength should be on Captain Powerhouse's short list of sets needing reworking.  The more I look at Energy Melee the more I wonder how it has made it to this point as is.

Biosphere

Biosphere

Posted
Posted
  On 1/19/2020 at 11:48 PM, Super Homer said:

It is not a trade secret that Claws, Spines and Titan Weapons are ridiculously above average for AoE performance (to be fair, Titan Weapons is above average on every single aspect.)

Expand  

There's a big difference between what is generally accepted as truth and real data. Don't get it wrong, I'm not trying to play devil's advocate with you, but I am a proponent of sharing recorded values. If Spines is in fact outperforming due to some type of test with displayable graphs, like how we have for archetype popularity, then I think we should see it as well as understand the rules of the test. I just want to see the data if it hasn't already been posted.

 

  On 1/19/2020 at 11:55 PM, csr said:

Now it gets a meaningless target cap increase to Quills (try hitting more than 10 with an 8' radius AoE where you are occupying the middle of that space yourself)

Expand  

 

This brings up a good point. Why increase the target cap to a power if you're already limited by the shape of the power's attack/cone/whatever it is?

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siolfir

siolfir

Posted
Posted
  On 1/20/2020 at 12:18 AM, Biosphere said:

There's a big difference between what is generally accepted as truth and real data. Don't get it wrong, I'm not trying to play devil's advocate with you, but I am a proponent of sharing recorded values. If Spines is in fact outperforming due to some type of test with displayable graphs, like how we have for archetype popularity, then I think we should see it as well as understand the rules of the test. I just want to see the data if it hasn't already been posted.

 

 

This brings up a good point. Why increase the target cap to a power if you're already limited by the shape of the power's attack/cone/whatever it is?

Expand  

To address the questions: I don't think any of the benchmarking has been posted, merely referenced. If someone else has seen posts, please correct me.

 

As for why increase the target cap... Quills has a better chance of hitting 16 as an 8' 360° AoE than hitting 10 with Head Splitter, Golden Dragonfly, or Cleave (10', 20° arc). It also briefly was getting the radius increase while Spine Burst wasn't, even though Spine Burst had its radius decreased to 10'. When Captain Powerhouse removed the "ignore external buffs" flag from Spine Burst, it was added to Quills, since that was supposed to have been the case all along. I would've been happy with both powers being affected, but Quills is a bigger reason for Spines' AoE performance than Spine Burst, and it was deliberately selected to be ignored because of the other AoE in the set.

csr

csr

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 1/20/2020 at 12:18 AM, Biosphere said:

This brings up a good point. Why increase the target cap to a power if you're already limited by the shape of the power's attack/cone/whatever it is?

Expand  

Simply to stick to systematic rules instead of having to craft every power individually is reason enough.  It's just good design practice.

 

As for Quills, it is an oblate sphere (vertical distance is doubled, resulting in a flattened sphere, as can be seen in Dispersion Bubble and similar powers), so there is some possibility that you might be able to pack 11+ fliers in the volume around a flying Spines Tanker.  I just don't think it will result in more than a tiny, tiny increase in average number of foes hit.

Edited by csr
Chronicler J

Chronicler J

Posted
Posted
  On 1/20/2020 at 12:39 AM, csr said:

Simply to stick to systematic rules instead of having to craft every power individually is reason enough.  It's just good design practice.

Expand  

Then why specifically target powers for their performance when you are sticking to a "design practice" that blankets everything, but then not really? Battle Axe Cleave can now hit 16 targets. In 10 ft radius. In a 20 degree cone. Are you kidding me? If Titan Weapons can be singled out and denied the cone treatment to Defensive Sweep and Titan Sweep, powers like Frost and Quills, which cannot realistically hit their new target caps, could also go unchanged to be consistent. "Good design practice." 

  • Like 1
csr

csr

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 1/20/2020 at 1:08 AM, Chronicler J said:

Then why specifically target powers for their performance when you are sticking to a "design practice" that blankets everything, but then not really? Battle Axe Cleave can now hit 16 targets. In 10 ft radius. In a 20 degree cone. Are you kidding me? If Titan Weapons can be singled out and denied the cone treatment to Defensive Sweep and Titan Sweep, powers like Frost and Quills, which cannot realistically hit their new target caps, could also go unchanged to be consistent. "Good design practice." 

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There's no reason to deviate from the practice if the deviation is meaningless or otherwise unnecessary.  Captain Powerhouse only appears to be deviating from the rules when he considers a set OP and in need of reigning in.  He, unfortunately, isn't changing things for the under-performing sets at this time.  Nor does he appear to be going power-by-power.  Repulsing Torrent, for example, doesn't get the Throw Spines/Shockwave treatment, presumably because CP doesn't think Kinetic Melee is over-performing.

 

Frost, btw, can hit its target cap.  It's a 180 degree 10' cone that is NOT treated as a melee attack for Range enhancement.  So you can easily get it to half of a 14' sphere.  You won't hit 16 often, but it's possible, and hitting more than 10 isn't uncommon at all.

Edited by csr
Chronicler J

Chronicler J

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Posted (edited)
  On 1/20/2020 at 2:15 AM, csr said:

 

Frost, btw, can hit its target cap.  It's a 180 degree 10' cone that is NOT treated as a melee attack for Range enhancement.  So you can easily get it to half of a 14' sphere.  You won't hit 16 often, but it's possible.

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It's 90. Even in a Fire Farm it was barely hitting 11 or 12.

Edited by Chronicler J
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