Statesman back in the LRSF

[Super Atom]

3 minutes ago, Vanden said:

Yeah, this is exactly what I'm talking about. You want to push this narrative so bad that you're either ignoring or missing that Zeus is not the same person as the Well of the Furies or Statesman, two very important aspects of the lore.

 

The SSAs are not side stories, they're major story arcs, more important than most TFs, even.

 

the SSAs feel like rushed side stories. Especially in the pay off department. I know their intention was to be important but they don't feel so.

 

Edit; I should specify i mean who will die. It doesn't feel like a major storyline it feels like a side splot that never had its ending that put everything back to normal.

Edited February 10, 2020 by Super Atom

[Chris24601]

6 hours ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

Uhm I could be fuzzy on this as its beena  while since Ive read up on the liberty ladies, but I could of sworn the first liberty and her 2 heirs drew their power from the artifact Hera's Girdle. Statesman was a gods avatar, he was indicated several times to be ageless and even immortal prior to the ritual draining his power away. Nothing I can recall reading suggest the power passed on.

Lore-wise, both Miss Liberty and Ms. Liberty can throw lightning bolts (not something associated with Hera) and, at the least, Miss Liberty was ageless like her dad (per the lore, Miss Liberty was born in 1939 and died in 2012... does she look 73 in the signature story arc?).

 

Further, Ms. Liberty's in-game description notes that she has superhuman strength and endurance "as well as" the power of the Liberty Belt.

 

The Paragon Wiki notes under Incarnates that "Both Ms. Liberty and Miss Liberty also possess some measure of superpowers genetically inherited from the patriarch of the family, Statesman, who himself derived his powers from the Well of the Furies."

 

Personally, I figure it was passed on the same way that Hercules was superhuman because his dad was Zeus. As I recall, there was some clarification, maybe in one of the AMA's, that the Greek Gods were basically just superhumans of the ancient past and Zeus was basically powered up by the Well the same way Marcus Cole was. If so it would stand to reason that the power would get passed on just like it did to a lot of Zeus' kids in the myths.

 

Regardless, the canon is Miss and Ms. Liberty both have superhuman powers that include super-strength (Martial Arts powerset because Scrappers don't get super strength, but seriously, they can kick super-powered robots to pieces... there's super-strength involved), invulnerability and the lightning bolt power because they inherited them from Statesman.

 

Its' may not be considered "Incarnate Strength," but it comes from the same source.

[Widower]

Everyone should calm down, and perhaps wonder why fictional characters offend them so, lest some rather less fictional warnings come down upon them.

[Haijinx]

I am not sure I understand the pretend character who died in a video game can't be brought back in the time travel loops because ...

 

The pretend character gets his powers from another pretend character that is over 3000 years old that had some characterization that offends modern audiences even though those attributes are never discussed in COX ..

 

And ..

 

Because that character was the author avatar of a hated game designer ...

 

... arguement. 

 

______

Sorry but Zeus is sufficiently Flanderized and derivative at this point that his (its?) Characterization is meaningless.  I mean there's a planet named after him ...

 

Statesman isn't actually Zeus in game anyway.  Getting the powers of =/= being that person (thing?) 

 

Statesman isn't the game designer everyone loves to hate either.  He is just a comic book style video game character.

 

AND ... to top it off the Original poster wants him back in a Strike Force so they can beat him up anyway.  

 

 

 

 

 

[Haijinx]

Sorry GM Widower was typing that before you posted.

[Widower]

2 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

Sorry GM Widower was typing that before you posted.

It's okay, I think you and I are getting at the same point.

[Dark Current]

The real outrage is how the phalanx dumps miss liberty's body on the cold stone of atlas' pedestal while lamenting her loss.

[Grouchybeast]

1 hour ago, Haijinx said:

AND ... to top it off the Original poster wants him back in a Strike Force so they can beat him up anyway. 

This is the part that has been cracking me up for the whole thread.

[Super Atom]

19 minutes ago, Grouchybeast said:

This is the part that has been cracking me up for the whole thread.

Right? Even if you hated him putting him back in means you get to beat him up. This is a win/win for everyone.

[Haijinx]

1 hour ago, Dark Current said:

The real outrage is how the phalanx dumps miss liberty's body on the cold stone of atlas' pedestal while lamenting her loss.

Another one for Gail's list.

[BlastLord]

Statesmen should be back on this SF it's should be a flashback

 

[DR_Mechano]

Yep besides it seems like apart from 1 person, putting the original LRSF back as an option in Ouroborus with Statesman slapped back in there is pretty much the agreed ideal outcome. Like I said it's been raised before, even back on live, and only a few people objected to it (people with a really hate-boner for Jack) otherwise the majority agreed.

[Drakwatch]

Instead of bringing Statesman back for LRSF, he should be replaced with Blue Steel.

 

... Why not? I don't think he shows up anywhere else besides some mission in Dark Astoria. I think he could hold his own. 

[Vanden]

7 hours ago, DR_Mechano said:

Yep besides it seems like apart from 1 person, putting the original LRSF back as an option in Ouroborus with Statesman slapped back in there is pretty much the agreed ideal outcome. Like I said it's been raised before, even back on live, and only a few people objected to it (people with a really hate-boner for Jack) otherwise the majority agreed.

I don't see why we need to put the old version in Ouroboros rather than restore the SF to its original state with a single line of text explaining that it takes place prior to SSA 1. The new version isn't worth preserving, it's the exact same TF with one different AV, two missing AVs, and some slightly altered text.

[Display Name]

When I first read the subject line of this thread, a Beatles song started playing in my head.

 

And while typing this message, I became a poet and didn't know it!?

[BrandX]

On 2/7/2020 at 11:51 AM, Bentley Berkeley said:

Pardon me while I gag.

 

But seriously Statesman was the avatar of a vile rapist of a god. Sister Psyche was a body thief. No matter the attempts at portraying them as good and heroic, the fact is both of these characters are better off dead as neither really represents an icon worthy character.

 

You all dont seem to be aware of one of the more common negative nicknames for coh city of sidekicks, it was the over hyped up characters like States and Sis that helped created that sense in some players.

 

Bad enough CCs are now held at the statue of Statesman in KW. Likely why I barely bother to go attend them to see costumes and read bios now days as I cant stomach the sight of that Tyrant State.

 

I take it, you don't like Deadpool, Harley Quinn, Wolverine, Psylocke, Venom, Punisher, the list goes on?  😛

 

But the real important part is, I never felt like City of Sidekicks, but I never felt A lister, until IOs and soloing AVs (why I like to get to that point).

[LQT]

11 hours ago, Drakwatch said:

Instead of bringing Statesman back for LRSF, he should be replaced with Blue Steel.

 

... Why not? I don't think he shows up anywhere else besides some mission in Dark Astoria. I think he could hold his own. 

Blue Steel is literally the reason Clockwork King almost died and now exists as a brain in a floating jar. He almost killed a young psychic who couldn't control his powers which resulted in the deaths of several law enforcers. He's the closest ingame example there is of a renowned/big name character that's a Vigilante almost Rogue.

 

10 hours ago, Vanden said:

I don't see why we need to put the old version in Ouroboros rather than restore the SF to its original state with a single line of text explaining that it takes place prior to SSA 1. The new version isn't worth preserving, it's the exact same TF with one different AV, two missing AVs, and some slightly altered text.

New version is easier because of the changes. Dom's can mez Penelope Yin and then let her solo the rest of the FP because of her abilities. Probably doesn't work as well if trying to use Shalice.

[Vanden]

1 minute ago, LQT said:

New version is easier because of the changes. Dom's can mez Penelope Yin and then let her solo the rest of the FP because of her abilities. Probably doesn't work as well if trying to use Shalice.

Sounds like a good reason to toss the current version.

[Sakura Tenshi]

12 hours ago, Drakwatch said:

Instead of bringing Statesman back for LRSF, he should be replaced with Blue Steel.

 

... Why not? I don't think he shows up anywhere else besides some mission in Dark Astoria. I think he could hold his own. 

Blue Steel would need a lot of adjustment. For one thing he only goes up to EB, and thank God for that. I'd need to check the specifics, but the dude has Willpower and Shield Defense, which might not sound too bad, but I think he's got true grit and high pain tolerance which means he has a whopping +40% HP and he definitely has Against All Odds AND Rise to the Challenge. AAO and RttC in the hands of even an EB is a pretty decent combined Debuff towards ToHit and Damage (stacking with good resists and defense) but RttC's Regen bonus scaled to AV plus possibly having +40% max HP would make him damn near unkillable unless you're playing a range-damage heavy team and packing a lot of regen debuffs.

 

So, long story short: just bumping Blue Steel up to AV would mean he would be insanely durable.

[VileTerror]

I kind of -do- want to see that, Sakura.  But make it a unique thing.  Like the main objective is "Beat the Freedom Phalanx" but an optional objective "and Blue Steel too."

[Haijinx]

Also Manticore.  I mean extra Manticore. 

 

That guy needs beat up more.  

[Grouchybeast]

4 hours ago, Haijinx said:

Also Manticore.  I mean extra Manticore. 

 

That guy needs beat up more.  

How about just replacing all of them with clones of Manticore?

[Cidri]

About LRSF in particular, it is weird that we have Sister Psyche in it - in a future scene even - but not Statesman. Its also odd that we can defeat Numina in the future after having defeated her (in a later mission) in the present. But then continuity was never a strong suit of superhero comics.

 

I'm otherwise in the Bring Back Statesman camp. Positron doesn't fill his shoes. And I feel that it was cheap of a developer with the handle Positron to kill of Statesman, which was the handle of a previous main developer.

[DR_Mechano]

5 hours ago, Cidri said:

I'm otherwise in the Bring Back Statesman camp. Positron doesn't fill his shoes. And I feel that it was cheap of a developer with the handle Positron to kill of Statesman, which was the handle of a previous main developer.

I will point out it wasn't Positron who killed off Statesman. It was the writer at the time Dr Aeon who killed off Statesman and he HATED any and all of Jack's characters with a passion. It's why both Statesman AND Sister Psyche are killed off during the SSA (both were Jack's characters). His response in a post sunset AMA when Positron mentioned the possibility of bringing him back was to act very annoyed at the idea since he spent 'all that time killing him off'.

 

I personally felt like it was handled poorly at the time and you can tell that Statesman was the key focus of Dr Aeons hatred because Sister P still got her TF added to Ouro...but the original LRSF with States in it never did (the only reason a Hero's Hero arc (that was replaced by a Hero's epic) was put into Ouro is because it actually tied in to the background lore for Going Rogue since the original arc was the first 'Praetorian incursion' with the replacement arc being the second).