Savage guide

[brasilgringo]

4 hours ago, Bopper said:

This is somewhat conditional. They basically set the critical hit to the equivalent of between 3 and 4 blood stacks. At 3 blood stacks, you would do 2.5856 scale damage, and at 4 blood stacks would do 2.6508 scale damage (after the ticks play out). 

 

I'm not sure how they came up with 2.6 scale for its damage, but I have a theory.

At non-max stacks, you do 5 ticks of 0.326 scale damage. Assuming no blood stacks buff, that would do 2.39 scale damage. At max stacks, you do 6 ticks of 0.343 scale damage. Assuming no blood stacks buff (silly, since we already said "at max stacks", but bear with me), the damage would be 2.818 scale damage. If you average those two numbers, it is 2.604 scale damage. Pretty close.

 

Here is a breakdown of the damage in issue 27 compared with the bugged issue 26 version. The cells that are black/white are individual breakdowns of the damage. There is the up-front 0.76 scale damage, then DoTs (5 or 6 ticks). Notice in issue 26 there were two DoTs, now there is only one. This breakdown is for PvE only. If I showed what PvP was doing, it would also show brokenness, but in an unfavorable direction (no DoTs). Finally, not shown, but the Issue 26 non-hide crit is shown below as scaled damage, but it also subtracted 0.76 non-scaled damage from the end result. This is a weird one, as it was a damage offset that used no AT modifier tables and not enhanceable. If your Crit was supposed to do 100 damage, you'd see 99.24, if it was supposed to do 200 damage, you'd see 199.24. Bonkers.

 

Issue 26 attack from hide (Chance = 100%)		Stacks	Tot	Base DMG	Crit DMG	Std	Big DoT	Small DoT	Crit Std	Crit DoT1	Crit DoT2
		0	7.528	3.08	4.448	0.76	1.63	0.69	0.76	1.63	2.058
		1	7.76832	3.1728	4.59552	0.76	1.6952	0.7176	0.76	1.6952	2.14032
		2	8.00864	3.2656	4.74304	0.76	1.7604	0.7452	0.76	1.7604	2.22264
		3	8.24896	3.3584	4.89056	0.76	1.8256	0.7728	0.76	1.8256	2.30496
		4	8.48928	3.4512	5.03808	0.76	1.8908	0.8004	0.76	1.8908	2.38728
		5	9.4592	4.2736	5.1856	0.76	2.4696	1.044	0.76	1.956	2.4696
Issue 26 attack from not-hide (Chance = 100%, yes…a 100% but the damage is equivalent to 1 tick)		Stacks	Tot	Base DMG	Crit DMG	Std	Big DoT	Small DoT	Crit
		0	3.406	3.08	0.326	0.76	1.63	0.69	0.326
		1	3.51184	3.1728	0.33904	0.76	1.6952	0.7176	0.33904
		2	3.61768	3.2656	0.35208	0.76	1.7604	0.7452	0.35208
		3	3.72352	3.3584	0.36512	0.76	1.8256	0.7728	0.36512
		4	3.82936	3.4512	0.37816	0.76	1.8908	0.8004	0.37816
		5	4.6648	4.2736	0.3912	0.76	2.4696	1.044	0.3912
Issue 27 crit from either hide or non-hide (Chance = 100% from hide, Chance = 10+% from non-hide		Stacks	Tot	Base DMG	Crit DMG	Std	DoT	Crit
		0	4.99	2.39	2.6	0.76	1.63	2.6
		1	5.0552	2.4552	2.6	0.76	1.6952	2.6
		2	5.1204	2.5204	2.6	0.76	1.7604	2.6
		3	5.1856	2.5856	2.6	0.76	1.8256	2.6
		4	5.2508	2.6508	2.6	0.76	1.8908	2.6
		5	5.8296	3.2296	2.6	0.76	2.4696	2.6

sure wish i knew how to read the table 😉 looks impressive though. 

 

idk, i never really felt like hemo was making/breaking my Savage/Invuln stalker ... the AOE was good, I used Hemo when I had 5 stacks, that's about it.  I suppose hemo is weaker now but it wasn't ever my defining power.

[Bopper]

9 minutes ago, Frosticus said:

14 sec recharge attack should be 2.6 scale should it not?

Ha, I should've known to check the design formula. For what it's worth, I wish they bring back the DoT crit and honor the blood stacks for scaling the crit damage. I put a feeler out there half a year ago to see if folks would be willing to take a crit dot as opposed to up front crit damage, and up front won. Oh well.

[Frosticus]

11 minutes ago, Bopper said:

Ha, I should've known to check the design formula. For what it's worth, I wish they bring back the DoT crit and honor the blood stacks for scaling the crit damage. I put a feeler out there half a year ago to see if folks would be willing to take a crit dot as opposed to up front crit damage, and up front won. Oh well.

Yah I recall that poll.

Oh well, savage is still fun albeit probably with more downsides than upsides these days.

 

I'd like the set to be a bit more unique in exchange for all the dot. Maybe the bleed could do a small maxhp debuff or something.

The set has good to great aoe, depending how you slot it and savage leap gets you around the battle field in style.

 

With old hemo I'd give the set an 8.5/10.

With New hemo... 7/10 (6.99 of those points are for savage leap haha).

 

But that is just my opinion

[carroto]

1 hour ago, Frosticus said:

Proc'd savage leap is reason enough to enjoy the set (imo).

Maybe.  I greatly value AoE but I also need my Stalkers to be able to take out hard targets effectively.  Comparing the numbers on Savage Melee single-target attacks to those of other sets with good AoE, it doesn't come out looking terrible on paper.  However...

 

1 hour ago, Frosticus said:

dot damage, no mitigation and all lethal.

Yeah there's that.  I guess I should look at the numbers on those attacks to see why the set doesn't have secondary effects.  Is the DoT a bonus, which makes it the secondary effect?  Doesn't Spines get DoT plus slows/-fly/immob?  Does the Blood Frenzy mechanic take the place of a secondary effect?  If so I'm not sure how the lower than expected damage on hemo can be justified.  Other sets don't get a damage penalty for having a secondary effect.

 

Anyway, time will tell.  I might come back to that Stalker at some point.  I just got Hemo and was shockingly underwhelmed by it.  Maybe I should get it fully slotted and give it another shot.

 

[Frosticus]

Just an update for the build in the OP. I haven't changed any of my slotting. 

 

You can still do good st damage as long as you follow AS with a snipe. Generally enough for taking out bosses. Upfront hemo crit might actually be beneficial for killing off luts. To a point anyway. +2 (+3 with alpha) feels good, but higher settings you are left with a lot of partial kills that the old heavy dot would finish.

 

Finally, my sustained dps has tanked considerably. Down about 100dps vs pylons. I'm out of practice so you might be able to recover some of that deficit.

 

Overall it is still a great AoE stalker (only with proc tho) and it is still probably a bit better off than elec for single target. That said, I'd probably play this combo as a scrap or tank . You'd have essentially the same aoe capability, scrap would still do similar st dps (less burst tho), but gain the taunt aura and toughness. Everyone can stealth missions if they choose to. 

[Bob the Painter]

Since i27, my Sav/SD has been collecting dust. Kinda want to dust it off, but I think it needs a new build after the hemo nerf. I misplaced my previous build, but I threw this one together. Any improvements you think can be made? ST might be lacking without the old hemo, but AoE should still be gnarly. 

 

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.4.7
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Natural Stalker
Primary Power Set: Savage Melee
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Maiming Slash -- SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAssMar-Dmg/Rchg(11), SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), SprAssMar-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), SprAssMar-Rchg/Rchg Build Up(17)
Level 1: Hide -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-ResDam%(42), Ksm-ToHit+(46)
Level 2: Deflection -- GldArm-ResDam(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(3), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(3), LucoftheG-Def(5), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(5)
Level 4: Battle Agility -- RedFrt-Def(A), RedFrt-EndRdx/Rchg(15), RedFrt-EndRdx(23), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(37), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(40)
Level 6: Assassin's Frenzy -- SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprStlGl-Rchg/Hide%(7), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Hct-Dam%(9), GldStr-%Dam(9), TchofDth-Dam%(17)
Level 8: Build Up -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(25), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(25), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(27), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(31), GssSynFr--Build%(34)
Level 10: Savage Strike -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(45), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(46), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(46)
Level 12: True Grit -- NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(A), NmnCnv-EndRdx/Rchg(13), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(29), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(29), NmnCnv-Heal(31), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(42)
Level 14: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(23)
Level 16: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Rending Flurry -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-Acc/Rchg(19), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(19), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), Obl-%Dam(21)
Level 20: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 22: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(36), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(36), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(37), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(43)
Level 26: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(31)
Level 28: Grant Cover -- ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(A)
Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(36)
Level 32: Savage Leap -- Arm-Dmg(A), Arm-Dam%(33), Obl-%Dam(33), ScrDrv-Dam%(33), Erd-%Dam(34), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(34)
Level 35: Shield Charge -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(43), Obl-%Dam(50)
Level 38: Zapp -- Apc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Apc-Acc/Rchg(39), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Apc-Dam%(40), Dcm-Build%(48)
Level 41: Ball Lightning -- Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(A), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(47), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(47), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Rgn-Knock%(48)
Level 44: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 47: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Super Speed -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(27)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PwrTrns-+Heal(42)
Level 1: Blood Frenzy 
Level 49: Quick Form 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon 
Level 50: Pyronic Core Final Judgement 
Level 50: Banished Pantheon Radial Superior Ally 
Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany 
Level 1: Assassination 
Level 50: Preemptive Radial Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Assault Core Embodiment 
Level 50: Portal Jockey 
Level 50: Task Force Commander 
Level 50: The Atlas Medallion 
Level 50: Freedom Phalanx Reserve 
------------

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		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

 

[Darkir]

On 2/20/2020 at 11:02 PM, Frosticus said:

Shred - melee cone. A decent one at 80 degrees that also does -def. A such it can take some decent IO's. Some people like it, I don't bother with repositioning and the animation is too slow for me. 

I hate hate hate repositioning too, you lose dps time and it does always hit the ones you want. I only bother with cones on hover builds and tanks (but I pretty much don't play tanks). 

[Lazarillo]

Did the Hemorrhage nerf also fix Savage Leap not crit-ing from Hide, by any chance?  The power data in-game says it has a 30% chance now (which is still disappointingly low, but something), but I dunno, a lot of times, that feels unreliable.

[WillParkinson2]

On 5/6/2020 at 1:53 PM, Other Sensor said:

Reporting back after testing a fully kitted electric on beta. It is neat, but invulnerability's softcap defenses come out on top of survival from the feel of it. 

I know I'm wayyyyy late to the party, but needed to know if you ever dropped Hemorrhage after the 'nerf' of it?

[Vulpoid]

@Frosticus , Would you advise Shred over Hemorrhage now?
Thanks in advance!

[Frosticus]

On 3/23/2021 at 4:04 PM, Vulpoid said:

@Frosticus , Would you advise Shred over Hemorrhage now?
Thanks in advance!

I'm not sure to be honest. I've never liked shred that much, but I don't like most melee cones.

 

On 3/13/2021 at 4:02 PM, Lazarillo said:

Did the Hemorrhage nerf also fix Savage Leap not crit-ing from Hide, by any chance?  The power data in-game says it has a 30% chance now (which is still disappointingly low, but something), but I dunno, a lot of times, that feels unreliable.

Savage leap could always crit, but it seemed exceptionally low. It still seems low to me. I'm not sure why savage melee has lower crit chance on aoe's than other sets (including rending flurry). It is still a great aoe set, but sometimes I think about those aoe's on a scrapper under critical strikes and how well they might perform. 

[Coyote]

On 3/23/2021 at 7:04 PM, Vulpoid said:

@Frosticus , Would you advise Shred over Hemorrhage now?
Thanks in advance!

 

I would but only due to putting two -Res procs into it. Otherwise, not sure about that. But with two -Res procs it's not a bad addition to a single-target chain... low effectiveness on itself but it boosts damage from following attacks. And it adds AoE that's helpful when in a large spawn... you don't have to reposition to hit multiple targets with it, and with 2+ targets it's pretty good. For fun I added the Overwhelming Force Dam/KD IO into it, and knocking down multiple targets that are bunched up is always fun.

 

Note: I think the chance to activate Achilles Heel is about 30%, so that's an average of 6% -Res from one of the IOs. If Gladiator's Fury has the same numbers, then 12% -Res isn't a bad average value.

[Frosticus]

Just revisiting Savage with a new build and wanted to highlight a few recent changes to stalkers and one change to savage in particular.

 

this is once again a must play set.

 

Savage leap - proc'd out this is hands down the best aoe stalkers get. And now it can crit! That's a pretty significant buff for what was already a great aoe attack. From max range this deletes mobs.

 

Improved hide after placate/hide proc. You used to end up breaking hide all the time after placate because the dot of savage attacks causes the pacify to end. No matter how good your def was a random attack would spoil your crit at some point. This has been changed, so damage won't break the hidden status for placate. 

 

New epic attacks. It's no secret that hemo is often skipped, so the lack of a good follow up attack after AS can drag you down. 2 new snipes were added and they are both great and open new build options.

 

 

 

[Grimm2]

Stalker Savage has been on the back of my mind, but I've been trying out an off-brand Stalker-lite Sav/Nin Scrapper (in progress) and a dot-madness Sav/Stone/Enflame Brute (built out and working on incarnates, great tough fun build). 

 

If I did a Sav Stalker...I'd have a hard time not going Stone Armor again, maybe a gargoyle buddy for the Brute mirror. I recall you liking procced Ice Blast/Ice Spear a while back? Is that still true? That might make for some odd exemplaring attack chains and hamper Assassin's Focus?

[Frosticus]

I feel that if you focus on lower level content then it is beneficial to have a second build slot dedicated to that because so many sets look quite different late game. Sav is certainly one of them, but EM is perhaps even moreso in that regard.

 

I really like icebolt/spear. If I'm chasing damage they are great options, but in the case of my new sav/rad I am probably going to settle for a bit less damage and go with soul's dark blast/moon beam to access shadowmeld.

 

A few sets really excel at building assassin's focus, namely EM, but the faster sets don't proc it reliably enough for me to count on it. So I just spam fast AS when it is up and it works out well enough.

 

 

[Blondey]

@Frosticus Hi Frost ❤️ I'm a new player, and stalker has been my love. I have two of them. 1 lvl 12 Psi/Shield and 1 lvl 15 STJ/EA. I have been reading and re-reading your post for days. Savage sounds like the one, the stalker I want to play.

Do you have a guide I can follow for Sav/Rad? I noticed you mentioned Sav/Bio and Sav/Shield. Is Rad the ONE for you?

Edited May 20 by Blondey

[Frosticus]

22 hours ago, Blondey said:

Do you have a guide I can follow for Sav/Rad? I noticed you mentioned Sav/Bio and Sav/Shield. Is Rad the ONE for you?

No guide beyond whatever I've posted in this thread.

 

I'm not sure if sav/rad will outperform my sav/shield. I think they are both excellent combos. 

[Blondey]

31 minutes ago, Frosticus said:

No guide beyond whatever I've posted in this thread.

 

I'm not sure if sav/rad will outperform my sav/shield. I think they are both excellent combos. 

I watched a youtube video of a player named TBone. It looked crazy fun. I took a screen to share: They are Sav/Rad. My question is what are you running powers-wise on the Rad side of things? I've been using your previously posted Sav powers.

 

[Frosticus]

I'm using every /rad power. I cycle meltdown and rune of protection as my "god modes". They aren't up 100% of the time, but it works well enough.

[RogueMD]

On 5/17/2024 at 6:11 PM, Frosticus said:

Just revisiting Savage with a new build and wanted to highlight a few recent changes to stalkers and one change to savage in particular.

 

 

 

 

Fantastic insight on this combination! I couldn’t get your original build to load on Mids; would you mind sharing your new build? Thank you for your guide!

[Triumphant]

I love this power set on my Brute.  Now I may have to try a Stalker version.  Great guide! 😎👍

[One IV All]

On 5/21/2024 at 3:40 AM, Triumphant said:

I love this power set on my Brute.  Now I may have to try a Stalker version.  Great guide! 😎👍

Same here, my Sav/Bio Brute is my favorite brute. The way Sav and Bio’s DOTs ramp damage with fury is amazing.

 

@Frosticus I’ve been torn on running Sav on either a Scrapper or Stalker next. Do you feel it really shines on a Stalker the most?

[Frosticus]

Much moreso on a stalker than a scrapper.

 

AS > viscious by a mile.

Savage leap 50% crit from max range > triggering critical strikes and using point blank.

Placate is in general way more useful than confront. Jumping away while placating and savage leaping back in with boosted crit chance is something else.

Buildup > blood thirst

 

Finally the stalker ATO that refreshes buildup goes off constantly for savage because of the aoes. For instance on my em stalker I almost don't notice it, but on savage it goes off so often you almost get sick of the buildup sound effect haha.

[One IV All]

3 hours ago, Frosticus said:

Much moreso on a stalker than a scrapper.

 

AS > viscious by a mile.

Savage leap 50% crit from max range > triggering critical strikes and using point blank.

Placate is in general way more useful than confront. Jumping away while placating and savage leaping back in with boosted crit chance is something else.

Buildup > blood thirst

 

Finally the stalker ATO that refreshes buildup goes off constantly for savage because of the aoes. For instance on my em stalker I almost don't notice it, but on savage it goes off so often you almost get sick of the buildup sound effect haha.

This info is all gold, I appreciate it man.

 

As someone who has ran Savage a ton, are there any specific secondaries you feel gel/synergize well with it specifically on a Stalker? My Sav/Bio Brute just feels like a great pairing on that AT.

 

I know a lot love Elec/Shield on Stalker. I could see Savage/Shield being great for the same reasons. New Stone Armor seems sweet as well.

Edited May 23 by One IV All

[Frosticus]

I like shield and stone armor a lot personally. They both add some offense without giving up being tough. Both are easy to slot and still get a lot of recharge into your build. 

 

I'm on the fence about rad armor. Tons of offense and so far very survivable, but getting +rech into the build is challenging.

 

If you want to survive almost anything a high recharge  t9 /ea build that cycles overload and unleash potential is imo head and shoulders above everything else at this time.