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Savage guide


Frosticus

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4 hours ago, Bopper said:

This is somewhat conditional. They basically set the critical hit to the equivalent of between 3 and 4 blood stacks. At 3 blood stacks, you would do 2.5856 scale damage, and at 4 blood stacks would do 2.6508 scale damage (after the ticks play out). 

 

I'm not sure how they came up with 2.6 scale for its damage, but I have a theory.

At non-max stacks, you do 5 ticks of 0.326 scale damage. Assuming no blood stacks buff, that would do 2.39 scale damage. At max stacks, you do 6 ticks of 0.343 scale damage. Assuming no blood stacks buff (silly, since we already said "at max stacks", but bear with me), the damage would be 2.818 scale damage. If you average those two numbers, it is 2.604 scale damage. Pretty close.

 

Here is a breakdown of the damage in issue 27 compared with the bugged issue 26 version. The cells that are black/white are individual breakdowns of the damage. There is the up-front 0.76 scale damage, then DoTs (5 or 6 ticks). Notice in issue 26 there were two DoTs, now there is only one. This breakdown is for PvE only. If I showed what PvP was doing, it would also show brokenness, but in an unfavorable direction (no DoTs). Finally, not shown, but the Issue 26 non-hide crit is shown below as scaled damage, but it also subtracted 0.76 non-scaled damage from the end result. This is a weird one, as it was a damage offset that used no AT modifier tables and not enhanceable. If your Crit was supposed to do 100 damage, you'd see 99.24, if it was supposed to do 200 damage, you'd see 199.24. Bonkers.

 

Issue 26 attack from hide (Chance = 100%) Stacks Tot Base DMG Crit DMG Std Big DoT Small DoT Crit Std Crit DoT1 Crit DoT2
0 7.528 3.08 4.448 0.76 1.63 0.69 0.76 1.63 2.058
1 7.76832 3.1728 4.59552 0.76 1.6952 0.7176 0.76 1.6952 2.14032
2 8.00864 3.2656 4.74304 0.76 1.7604 0.7452 0.76 1.7604 2.22264
3 8.24896 3.3584 4.89056 0.76 1.8256 0.7728 0.76 1.8256 2.30496
4 8.48928 3.4512 5.03808 0.76 1.8908 0.8004 0.76 1.8908 2.38728
5 9.4592 4.2736 5.1856 0.76 2.4696 1.044 0.76 1.956 2.4696
                       
Issue 26 attack from not-hide (Chance = 100%, yes…a 100% but the damage is equivalent to 1 tick) Stacks Tot Base DMG Crit DMG Std Big DoT Small DoT Crit    
0 3.406 3.08 0.326 0.76 1.63 0.69 0.326    
1 3.51184 3.1728 0.33904 0.76 1.6952 0.7176 0.33904    
2 3.61768 3.2656 0.35208 0.76 1.7604 0.7452 0.35208    
3 3.72352 3.3584 0.36512 0.76 1.8256 0.7728 0.36512    
4 3.82936 3.4512 0.37816 0.76 1.8908 0.8004 0.37816    
5 4.6648 4.2736 0.3912 0.76 2.4696 1.044 0.3912    
                       
Issue 27 crit from either hide or non-hide (Chance = 100% from hide, Chance = 10+% from non-hide Stacks Tot Base DMG Crit DMG Std DoT Crit      
0 4.99 2.39 2.6 0.76 1.63 2.6      
1 5.0552 2.4552 2.6 0.76 1.6952 2.6      
2 5.1204 2.5204 2.6 0.76 1.7604 2.6      
3 5.1856 2.5856 2.6 0.76 1.8256 2.6      
4 5.2508 2.6508 2.6 0.76 1.8908 2.6      
5 5.8296 3.2296 2.6 0.76 2.4696 2.6      

sure wish i knew how to read the table 😉 looks impressive though. 

 

idk, i never really felt like hemo was making/breaking my Savage/Invuln stalker ... the AOE was good, I used Hemo when I had 5 stacks, that's about it.  I suppose hemo is weaker now but it wasn't ever my defining power.

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9 minutes ago, Frosticus said:

14 sec recharge attack should be 2.6 scale should it not?

Ha, I should've known to check the design formula. For what it's worth, I wish they bring back the DoT crit and honor the blood stacks for scaling the crit damage. I put a feeler out there half a year ago to see if folks would be willing to take a crit dot as opposed to up front crit damage, and up front won. Oh well.

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11 minutes ago, Bopper said:

Ha, I should've known to check the design formula. For what it's worth, I wish they bring back the DoT crit and honor the blood stacks for scaling the crit damage. I put a feeler out there half a year ago to see if folks would be willing to take a crit dot as opposed to up front crit damage, and up front won. Oh well.

Yah I recall that poll.

Oh well, savage is still fun albeit probably with more downsides than upsides these days.

 

I'd like the set to be a bit more unique in exchange for all the dot. Maybe the bleed could do a small maxhp debuff or something.

The set has good to great aoe, depending how you slot it and savage leap gets you around the battle field in style.

 

With old hemo I'd give the set an 8.5/10.

With New hemo... 7/10 (6.99 of those points are for savage leap haha).

 

But that is just my opinion

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1 hour ago, Frosticus said:

Proc'd savage leap is reason enough to enjoy the set (imo).

Maybe.  I greatly value AoE but I also need my Stalkers to be able to take out hard targets effectively.  Comparing the numbers on Savage Melee single-target attacks to those of other sets with good AoE, it doesn't come out looking terrible on paper.  However...

 

1 hour ago, Frosticus said:

dot damage, no mitigation and all lethal.

Yeah there's that.  I guess I should look at the numbers on those attacks to see why the set doesn't have secondary effects.  Is the DoT a bonus, which makes it the secondary effect?  Doesn't Spines get DoT plus slows/-fly/immob?  Does the Blood Frenzy mechanic take the place of a secondary effect?  If so I'm not sure how the lower than expected damage on hemo can be justified.  Other sets don't get a damage penalty for having a secondary effect.

 

Anyway, time will tell.  I might come back to that Stalker at some point.  I just got Hemo and was shockingly underwhelmed by it.  Maybe I should get it fully slotted and give it another shot.

 

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  • 3 weeks later

Just an update for the build in the OP. I haven't changed any of my slotting. 

 

You can still do good st damage as long as you follow AS with a snipe. Generally enough for taking out bosses. Upfront hemo crit might actually be beneficial for killing off luts. To a point anyway. +2 (+3 with alpha) feels good, but higher settings you are left with a lot of partial kills that the old heavy dot would finish.

 

Finally, my sustained dps has tanked considerably. Down about 100dps vs pylons. I'm out of practice so you might be able to recover some of that deficit.

 

Overall it is still a great AoE stalker (only with proc tho) and it is still probably a bit better off than elec for single target. That said, I'd probably play this combo as a scrap or tank . You'd have essentially the same aoe capability, scrap would still do similar st dps (less burst tho), but gain the taunt aura and toughness. Everyone can stealth missions if they choose to. 

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  • 1 month later

Since i27, my Sav/SD has been collecting dust. Kinda want to dust it off, but I think it needs a new build after the hemo nerf. I misplaced my previous build, but I threw this one together. Any improvements you think can be made? ST might be lacking without the old hemo, but AoE should still be gnarly. 

 

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.4.7
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Natural Stalker
Primary Power Set: Savage Melee
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Maiming Slash -- SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAssMar-Dmg/Rchg(11), SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), SprAssMar-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), SprAssMar-Rchg/Rchg Build Up(17)
Level 1: Hide -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-ResDam%(42), Ksm-ToHit+(46)
Level 2: Deflection -- GldArm-ResDam(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(3), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(3), LucoftheG-Def(5), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(5)
Level 4: Battle Agility -- RedFrt-Def(A), RedFrt-EndRdx/Rchg(15), RedFrt-EndRdx(23), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(37), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(40)
Level 6: Assassin's Frenzy -- SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprStlGl-Rchg/Hide%(7), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Hct-Dam%(9), GldStr-%Dam(9), TchofDth-Dam%(17)
Level 8: Build Up -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(25), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(25), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(27), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(31), GssSynFr--Build%(34)
Level 10: Savage Strike -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(45), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(46), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(46)
Level 12: True Grit -- NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(A), NmnCnv-EndRdx/Rchg(13), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(29), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(29), NmnCnv-Heal(31), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(42)
Level 14: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(23)
Level 16: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Rending Flurry -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-Acc/Rchg(19), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(19), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), Obl-%Dam(21)
Level 20: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 22: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(36), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(36), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(37), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(43)
Level 26: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(31)
Level 28: Grant Cover -- ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(A)
Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(36)
Level 32: Savage Leap -- Arm-Dmg(A), Arm-Dam%(33), Obl-%Dam(33), ScrDrv-Dam%(33), Erd-%Dam(34), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(34)
Level 35: Shield Charge -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(43), Obl-%Dam(50)
Level 38: Zapp -- Apc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Apc-Acc/Rchg(39), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Apc-Dam%(40), Dcm-Build%(48)
Level 41: Ball Lightning -- Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(A), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(47), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(47), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Rgn-Knock%(48)
Level 44: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 47: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Super Speed -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(27)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PwrTrns-+Heal(42)
Level 1: Blood Frenzy 
Level 49: Quick Form 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon 
Level 50: Pyronic Core Final Judgement 
Level 50: Banished Pantheon Radial Superior Ally 
Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany 
Level 1: Assassination 
Level 50: Preemptive Radial Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Assault Core Embodiment 
Level 50: Portal Jockey 
Level 50: Task Force Commander 
Level 50: The Atlas Medallion 
Level 50: Freedom Phalanx Reserve 
------------

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		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

 

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On 2/20/2020 at 11:02 PM, Frosticus said:

Shred - melee cone. A decent one at 80 degrees that also does -def. A such it can take some decent IO's. Some people like it, I don't bother with repositioning and the animation is too slow for me. 

I hate hate hate repositioning too, you lose dps time and it does always hit the ones you want. I only bother with cones on hover builds and tanks (but I pretty much don't play tanks). 

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  • 2 weeks later
On 5/6/2020 at 1:53 PM, Other Sensor said:

Reporting back after testing a fully kitted electric on beta. It is neat, but invulnerability's softcap defenses come out on top of survival from the feel of it. 

I know I'm wayyyyy late to the party, but needed to know if you ever dropped Hemorrhage after the 'nerf' of it?

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On 3/23/2021 at 4:04 PM, Vulpoid said:

@Frosticus , Would you advise Shred over Hemorrhage now?
Thanks in advance!

I'm not sure to be honest. I've never liked shred that much, but I don't like most melee cones.

 

On 3/13/2021 at 4:02 PM, Lazarillo said:

Did the Hemorrhage nerf also fix Savage Leap not crit-ing from Hide, by any chance?  The power data in-game says it has a 30% chance now (which is still disappointingly low, but something), but I dunno, a lot of times, that feels unreliable.

Savage leap could always crit, but it seemed exceptionally low. It still seems low to me. I'm not sure why savage melee has lower crit chance on aoe's than other sets (including rending flurry). It is still a great aoe set, but sometimes I think about those aoe's on a scrapper under critical strikes and how well they might perform. 

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On 3/23/2021 at 7:04 PM, Vulpoid said:

@Frosticus , Would you advise Shred over Hemorrhage now?
Thanks in advance!

 

I would but only due to putting two -Res procs into it. Otherwise, not sure about that. But with two -Res procs it's not a bad addition to a single-target chain... low effectiveness on itself but it boosts damage from following attacks. And it adds AoE that's helpful when in a large spawn... you don't have to reposition to hit multiple targets with it, and with 2+ targets it's pretty good. For fun I added the Overwhelming Force Dam/KD IO into it, and knocking down multiple targets that are bunched up is always fun.

 

Note: I think the chance to activate Achilles Heel is about 30%, so that's an average of 6% -Res from one of the IOs. If Gladiator's Fury has the same numbers, then 12% -Res isn't a bad average value.

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