Focused Feedback: Shock Therapy (Build 1)

[Troo]

22 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

On 2/25/2020 at 8:27 PM, Super Atom said:

Something happening when they hit 0 endurance would be nice.

Mind if I steal this for the Suggestions Forum?

It doesn't de-toggle targets similar to players?

 

Against targets that would be de-toggled, zero endurance should have a myriad of resulting effects from slowing attacks and/or debuffs, reducing defense and/or resistance.

[Coyote]

5 minutes ago, Draeth Darkstar said:

every other support set can support an entire team and all their pets

 

It may be a reasonable design choice to say that this set can support up to X players, just like Empathy has SOME powers that support an entire team, and OTHER powers (Fortitude and Adrenal Boost) that only support a limited number of targets. If Electric Shock Resonance Therapy or whatever it ends up called instead has ALL of its powers able to support 8-12 targets but not more, that's a reasonable option for a support character.

 

What I would like to check, however, is that usually the target-limited powers are very strong. As they become usable upon more targets, they become weaker or cannot be up all the time. I'm not sure right now that the Electroshock buffs are buffy enough to warrant being too limited in target numbers. Their uptime is good, though, compared to some other ally buffs.

[Draeth Darkstar]

3 minutes ago, Coyote said:

 

It may be a reasonable design choice to say that this set can support up to X players, just like Empathy has SOME powers that support an entire team, and OTHER powers (Fortitude and Adrenal Boost) that only support a limited number of targets. If Electric Shock Resonance Therapy or whatever it ends up called instead has ALL of its powers able to support 8-12 targets but not more, that's a reasonable option for a support character.

 

What I would like to check, however, is that usually the target-limited powers are very strong. As they become usable upon more targets, they become weaker or cannot be up all the time. I'm not sure right now that the Electroshock buffs are buffy enough to warrant being too limited in target numbers. Their uptime is good, though, compared to some other ally buffs.

The number of Support powers that can only support part of a team is a tiny, tiny handful compared to the ones that can, and none of them are in sets that have no other powerful team-wide support.

Nobody's picking Empathy because Fortitude and Adrenal Boost are that mind-blowing, they're picking it because Regen Aura, Recovery Aura, and an AoE heal make a solid foundation of unlimited-target support, and Fortitude and Adrenal Boost add some nice icing to that cake.

 

Again, there is no support set that is gated on maximum allies in this game because it doesn't work like that. A single team can hit 56 friendly targets without using a single temp power or cooldown-dependent pet. If Kinetics is allowed to permanently damage cap them all, I see absolutely no reason that this set shouldn't be able to give them all a measly +20% damage buff.

[Dispari]

2 hours ago, Dispari said:

#2 is that I wish more of the powers actually did something for the user. It's true not every set does this, or even barely does this, but most sets let you benefit from nearly all the powers. The heal and absorb, even though they say the power jumps from you to other people, don't do anything for you at all. There are two more buff powers that don't do anything for you (okay Amp Up gives you a bit of HP and end), an end restore power that doesn't work on you, and a rez which you obviously can't use on yourself. So basically all you get is Faraday Cage and the end drain you might cause with Shock and Discharge, which doesn't feel like much. It would be great if, at the very least, the heal/absorb powers hit you too, though with the target other nature of those powers I'm not sure if that would solve anything in a solo scenario.

To add to what I was saying earlier, soloing with this set is REALLY hard. It offers almost no benefits of any kind. I can't heal myself, don't have any DEF or RES (except to a couple exotic damage types, and only in Faraday Cage). The only thing it offers is the -end/-DMG from the two enemy target powers, which definitely isn't enough.

[Trickshooter]

11 minutes ago, Troo said:

It doesn't de-toggle targets similar to players?

AFAIK NPCs don't have real toggles. They have long duration clicks that cancel when mezzed to give the illusion of detoggling.

[Dispari]

So 0.1 second duration mag 12 stun?

[Leogunner]

3 minutes ago, Trickshooter said:

AFAIK NPCs don't have real toggles. They have long duration clicks that cancel when mezzed to give the illusion of detoggling.

For all intents and purposes, that's a toggle. 

[Troo]

1 minute ago, Leogunner said:

For all intents and purposes, that's a toggle. 

But

Zero endurance does not equal a mezz. This may be what is being zeroed in on.

[Bossk_Hogg]

1 minute ago, Leogunner said:

For all intents and purposes, that's a toggle. 

Except if drained to 0 endurance it stays up. Relevant in a set that is focused on end drain as a major support feature.

[Trickshooter]

3 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

For all intents and purposes, that's a toggle. 

Except that they can continue to run while the NPC has no endurance.

 

Edit: sniped twice!

Edited February 27, 2020 by Trickshooter

[Bossk_Hogg]

Just now, Trickshooter said:

Except that they can continue to run while the NPC has no endurance.

 

Edit: sniped twice!

Too slow on the draw! 😛

[Coyotedancer]

38 minutes ago, Dispari said:

Faraday Cage recharges pretty fast by default, and it has a very distinct visual effect. As an anchor power (like Lifegiving Spores), it's probably one of the better ones. And if you decide not to stand in it... I guess it's your own fault you died, dude.

My experience playing a Nature Defender is that no one spends much time in the spore patch... *unless* I drop it in a central location where the melees are pulling in multiple groups that take a few minutes to clear. Otherwise? They're all over the place and half the gang are already moving on to the next targets by the time my animation's done. 

 

I just can't see this being much different, and the game being the way it is, I don't think it's reasonable to tell people "No you! Don't chase those Clocks that are jetting off across the map in all directions! You have to stay RIGHT HERE." either. Not with the way so many mobs take off to the four corners of the world. It's just not practical.

 

If more people played Controllers? Maybe... 

But given the current mindset of "control is useless", I wouldn't build a new support set on the assumption that they'll have crowd control back-up to keep everyone bunched up. o_O

 

 

Edited February 27, 2020 by Coyotedancer

[Galaxy Brain]

30 minutes ago, Troo said:

It doesn't de-toggle targets similar to players?

 

Against targets that would be de-toggled, zero endurance should have a myriad of resulting effects from slowing attacks and/or debuffs, reducing defense and/or resistance.

Eh, it technically does but those are few and far between + the reward for draining end is rarely different than applying a normal mez right away.

[Troo]

Well I totally agree it should do something.

 

@Galaxy Brain @Bossk_Hogg @Trickshooter @Leogunner

 

22 minutes ago, Dispari said:

So 0.1 second duration mag 12 stun?

Would this cancel the targets buffs? Or a sleep might fit.

[Replacement]

@Troo @Bossk_Hogg @Trickshooter pretty sure the fake toggles (fauggles) also drop when end =0.

[DarknessEternal]

In general, far too weak to be useful.

 

In specific, everything takes far too long to actually get going.  CoH fights don't last long enough for all the setup time this set needs and it needs to do them each fight.  Doubly failing is that what it provides after all that setup time wasn't actually worth the time; the bonuses simply aren't impactful.

Faraday Cage being immobile is just a complete non-starter.  This kind of power will never be useful.

 

For a non-set related issue, endurance drain is still a completely superfluous effect.  It provides nothing.

[Wavicle]

4 hours ago, Dispari said:

To add to what I was saying earlier, soloing with this set is REALLY hard. It offers almost no benefits of any kind. I can't heal myself, don't have any DEF or RES (except to a couple exotic damage types, and only in Faraday Cage). The only thing it offers is the -end/-DMG from the two enemy target powers, which definitely isn't enough.

it also gives you the best non-armor mez protection in the game.

[Wavicle]

Making Faraday Cage a toggle LIKE LIFEGIVING SPORES (NOT like Dispersion Bubble) would be a reasonable change I think.

[Dispari]

That I won't deny, Faraday Cage is one of the most unique and valuable powers in the set (although it needs to be fixed for how it doesn't position itself properly in the air). The rest of the set however can't be carried by one power.

If it worked like Lifegiving Spores, it could only be placed on the ground. I'm not sure I'd want that limitation.

Edited February 27, 2020 by Dispari

[Apparition]

4 hours ago, Dispari said:

To add to what I was saying earlier, soloing with this set is REALLY hard. It offers almost no benefits of any kind. I can't heal myself, don't have any DEF or RES (except to a couple exotic damage types, and only in Faraday Cage). The only thing it offers is the -end/-DMG from the two enemy target powers, which definitely isn't enough.

 

Soloing with many support sets is really hard.  I should know, I've soloed with Force Field and Sonic Resonance many, many times from levels 1 to 46.  Support sets aren't meant for soloing though... they're meant for teams.  Support sets shouldn't be judged on solo performance.

 

8 minutes ago, DarknessEternal said:

Faraday Cage being immobile is just a complete non-starter.  This kind of power will never be useful.

 

On the contrary, Faraday Cage as it stands now will be extremely useful on Rikti mothership raids.

 

3 minutes ago, Dispari said:

That I won't deny, Faraday Cage is one of the most unique and valuable powers in the set (although it needs to be fixed for how it doesn't position itself properly in the air). The rest of the set however can't be carried by one power.

If it worked like Lifegiving Spores, it could only be placed on the ground. I'm not sure I'd want that limitation.

 

Force Field is currently carried by Dispersion Bubble.  So a set can be carried by one power.  Now whether or not it should, no.

 

[Replacement]

Would like to see this data verified, but a great little mini-guide with woefully under-represented Thanks and Likes.  @Waypoint since you showed interest in the Patch Notes thread

 

 

[VileTerror]

What if we bump up Faraday Cage to 95 second Duration and 90 second Cooldown, and have it stay on the caster rather than being a pseudopet drop?

That should also solve the issue with it not inheriting the Resistance Enhancement Buff values.

[oedipus_tex]

6 hours ago, Trickshooter said:

AFAIK NPCs don't have real toggles. They have long duration clicks that cancel when mezzed to give the illusion of detoggling.

Critters actually have a mix of toggles and clicks. If the power affects entities other than the caster, it's a toggle, even on critters. This applies to Dispersion Bubble, Hurricane, Snow Storm, etc. 

 

There are also at least some armors that appear to be toggles. If you drain a Scientist in Peregrine of his endurance, he'll lose his rock armor.

[oedipus_tex]

Sorry for 2 posts in a row but: I'm fairly sure Farady Cage can be cast while mezzed and busts you out. It was hard for me to tell because for the first time in my life I was having trouble getting mezzed. 😛.  If I'm right this power is basically a break free on a 32 second recharge with an AiE component. You'd be crazy to skip it.

 

 

I really dont want it turn into a mobile toggle personally.  I could see it as an immobile toggle similar to Lifegiving Spores as long as it remains a "drop directly under casters feet" power.

 

What I dont want is a clone of Dispersion Bubble. We have enough aura powers to go around. This one is unique and the first time any support set gets full mezz protect to all.

Edited February 27, 2020 by oedipus_tex

[oedipus_tex]

Ok three posts in a row from me. I was hoping there'd be more chatter to dilute my comments. Sorry if this getting in the way. 😜

 

 

Latest observations:

 

 

Temporary pets, like Red Wisps, accept Shock Therapy's ally buffs.

• So you actually can build Static easily when solo.
• Doing this made me wish this set had a pet like the wisp built into the set, and you could chain abilities to yourself by casting at the pet. But this will do.
• This makes the Discharge power much more useful, because you'll often be casting it at full Static.
  • Even so, this set plays much better on Electric Blast (and presumably Control) than other sets.

 

I confirmed that Faraday Cage is castable while mezzed.

• This sets up an interesting and unique situation. You escape the mezz, but are still under its duration, so you can't leave the area of your cage or the mezz reapplies.
• This is a unique playstyle and as someone who has played every buff set to 50, I love it. It's very powerful (you can recast the cage every 7 seconds or so on a good end game build) but comes with some quirky caveats.

 

 

Energizing Circuit is not a good power.

• Compare to Kinetic's power Transference, which nearly refills the caster's bar. This power needs to affect the caster or other changes need to be made. Alternatively, combing with Rejuvenating Circuit.

 

 

This set does not have great IO slotting options.

• In a lot of ways it mirrors Kinetics.
• Admittedly it's helped some by the new Endurance Mod sets.
• I would throw some +Defense or -ToHit in here somewhere to throw this set a bone. 

Edited February 28, 2020 by oedipus_tex