Focused Feedback: Experimentation (Build 1 - 4)

[Bopper]

On 3/6/2020 at 4:19 PM, Replacement said:

Before. While the buff for AB is active, use powers.

Then that seems like a bug. I looked up the old City of Data and it does not say Shadow Meld cannot be enhanced by outside buffs, so Adrenal Booster should provide it a buff, assuming AB does the traditional +Special (which includes increasing strength of all defense).

Edited March 10, 2020 by Bopper

[Wavicle]

On 3/6/2020 at 2:14 PM, Replacement said:

Ok, so everything else I think is a bug keeps turning out to be mechanical intricacies so this time I'll pose it as a question:

Is there something keeping Shadow Meld from getting Adrenal Booster's "strength to defense?"   Right now, my Shadow Meld numbers are not being affected by it.

 

EDIT: Stamina and Scrapper Regen>Quick Recovery are also not seeing any improvement. 

Power Boost abilities have NEVER included Regen, only Heals.

Test is down right now or I'd double check, but I believe the AB version does not include Defense, intentionally.

Edited March 9, 2020 by Wavicle

[Replacement]

3 hours ago, Wavicle said:

Power Boost abilities have NEVER included Regen, only Heals.

Test is down right now or I'd double check, but I believe the AB version does not include Defense, intentionally.

I was only testing things that were in the detailed info screen. That means I'm certain it has a +strength to defense and recovery options listed (and it certainly didn't give me defense or recovery directly).

 

Edit: just to make sure it's clear: I was not testing regeneration stats. Those were not listed. Just defense and recovery.

Edited March 8, 2020 by Replacement

[Wavicle]

16 hours ago, Replacement said:

I was only testing things that were in the detailed info screen. That means I'm certain it has a +strength to defense and recovery options listed (and it certainly didn't give me defense or recovery directly).

 

Edit: just to make sure it's clear: I was not testing regeneration stats. Those were not listed. Just defense and recovery.

Power Boost has also never boosted Recovery, only + or - Endurance.

[Wavicle]

I'm not sure why the defense isn't being boosted.  Possibly a bug, or possibly the power is flagged to not receive buffs but we can't see the flag, which I guess could also be a bug.

[Replacement]

3 hours ago, Wavicle said:

Power Boost has also never boosted Recovery, only + or - Endurance.

I'm not referencing Power Boost, though.  I'm referencing the text of Adrenaline Booster, which says it boosts Recovery.

 

Good call.  I stand corrected.  Text reads:

 +27.68%% strength to endurance for 1m 0s on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable

Edited March 9, 2020 by Replacement

[Replacement]

I just tested with field operative, maneuvers, and afterburner.  Still no change.

 

Hey wait, is it possible the stat I'm looking at in the Detailed Info is Defense Debuff Resistance?

 

[Captain Powerhouse]

The power does not boost defense, it boosts Defense Debuffs. Due to mechanics this also means it boosts any enhanceable Defense Debuff Resistance.

This is not a traditional Power Boost, even if its very similar.
Note it also boosts damage and recharge.

[Replacement]

Thanks for the clarity on that. I would say sorry for taking up a page, but I'm glad to have the expectations spelled out.

[Erydanus]

Experimental Injection reminds me of Stimulant, the deprecated power from the Medicine Pool that was turned into Injection, which has a benefit on a teammate and a debuff on a foe. I thought at some point it was decided that putting a power that has no benefit when you're solo in a pool wasn't a good idea and thus it got the dual aspect so it can be used as a debuffing attack when solo. 

 

By that logic, Experimental Injection should act the same way: it should also act as a debuff if used on a foe so that anyone who picks it can always use it on someone. It doesn't have to be super powerful, just something so it's not a waste of a power choice without a teammate.

 

Edit: while any minor debuff would do, like 5% damage resistance even, it would be interesting to make it be synergetic with the rest of the Pool. Like, maybe have a bit more of a toxic damage resistance debuff (15-20% depending on AT?)

Edited March 9, 2020 by Erydanus

[Trickshooter]

On 3/9/2020 at 11:58 AM, Captain Powerhouse said:

The power does not boost defense, it boosts Defense Debuffs. Due to mechanics this also means it boosts any enhanceable Defense Debuff Resistance.

Can I ask how that was done? Is it new tech or is it simply limited to Str(Base Defense)?

[Captain Powerhouse]

1 hour ago, Trickshooter said:

Can I ask how that was done? Is it new tech or is it simply limited to Str(Base Defense)?

 

No, the feature has always been there and used on any power that provides resistances and those resistances can be enhanced. Its a flag that blocks all buffs from affecting that power's attributes (buffs, debuffs, damage, etc.)

 

Things that alter base power factors, like recharge, accuracy, end cost, radius, and other stuff like that require a different flag.

[Player2]

On 2/26/2020 at 2:39 AM, Stan The Man said:

No, I believe that was the natural themed pool power.   Willpower is usually associated with natural origin.

Except Force of Will contains an actual psionic ranged attack... and psionics are generally thought of as a mutant thing, thanks to the X-Men and all their telepaths.

 

Strange as it may seem, Utility Belt is probably going to be the the Natural origin pool... because Batman.  And yes, it seems like that would be Tech but, but the Tech origin will be Gadgetry.

 

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Utility_Belt

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Gadgetry

[Trickshooter]

2 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

No, the feature has always been there and used on any power that provides resistances and those resistances can be enhanced. Its a flag that blocks all buffs from affecting that power's attributes (buffs, debuffs, damage, etc.)

 

Things that alter base power factors, like recharge, accuracy, end cost, radius, and other stuff like that require a different flag.

Sorry, I meant how did you limit the power to boosting defense debuffs and defense debuff resistance without boosting defense buffs. I know defense debuffs and defense debuff resistance both affect the Base Defense attribute only, so I was asking if you limited it to only boosting that attribute and excluding the other 10 defense attributes. I was curious because Personal Force Field used Base Defense last I checked (and admittedly that could’ve changed by now), so if that’s how Adrenal Booster works it would at least buff the defense of PFF.

[Captain Powerhouse]

Sorry me, thought I was replying in a different thread.

 

All defense debuffs and defense debuff resistances are base defense only. Player powers are all typed or positional defense.
 

Technically the power also boosts personal force Field, but that power is already so far out it means little.

 

[Dahkness]

Does AB also increase your defense buffs? How similar is it to power boost?

[Captain Powerhouse]

No, we are adopting a rule where long duration +Boost powers do not boost defense buffs. Same goes true for Amp Up.

[Erydanus]

On ‎3‎/‎10‎/‎2020 at 5:32 PM, Player2 said:

Except Force of Will contains an actual psionic ranged attack... and psionics are generally thought of as a mutant thing, thanks to the X-Men and all their telepaths.

In this comic-book universe, some natural psychic power exists in some humans. We had a discussion about this in a Widow thread and 1) someone pulled up a quote from Sister Psyche in the Origin of Power arc where she stated (simplified) she thinks that she is maybe not a mutant at all but a human psychic; and 2) the original cannon origin for all Arachnos widows was Natural - even though they're hella psychic.

[Player2]

2 hours ago, Erydanus said:

In this comic-book universe, some natural psychic power exists in some humans. We had a discussion about this in a Widow thread and 1) someone pulled up a quote from Sister Psyche in the Origin of Power arc where she stated (simplified) she thinks that she is maybe not a mutant at all but a human psychic; and 2) the original cannon origin for all Arachnos widows was Natural - even though they're hella psychic.

Force of Will is the mutant origin pool.  But you can take it with natural origin or science or magic or whatever you like and call it how you want.  But there are five pools, and if FoW isn't meant to be mutant then that means that Utility Belt must be the mutant pool...  so nope.  FoW is mutant.

[Erydanus]

I'm not disagreeing there. I am saying that psychic = mutant isn't a rock solid argument ender.

[Player2]

46 minutes ago, Erydanus said:

I'm not disagreeing there. I am saying that psychic = mutant isn't a rock solid argument ender.

None of the origin sets are 100% the origin they are represented as.  Sorcery is magic only?  Nah... maybe it's just a natural alien ability, or maybe someone's concept is that they have mutant powers that mimic magical ability,  Experimentation is science?  I don't know, a little difficult to not pigeonhole this one as science... unless we call it alchemy and that's just a different kind of magic.

 

My statement was just that Force of Will is the mutant origin pool set.  Use it how you want and call it what you like for your characters, though.

[Draeth Darkstar]

On 3/11/2020 at 2:40 PM, Captain Powerhouse said:

No, we are adopting a rule where long duration +Boost powers do not boost defense buffs. Same goes true for Amp Up.

This would be the kind of thing it'd be nice to have an announcement of go out real, real early if it's going to be retroactive, 'cause it's going to break a ton of peoples' builds.

[Captain Powerhouse]

2 minutes ago, Draeth Darkstar said:

This would be the kind of thing it'd be nice to have an announcement of go out real, real early if it's going to be retroactive, 'cause it's going to break a ton of peoples' builds.

 

This is something that applies to two new powers, and any future power that grants +Boost for longer than 15 seconds. No existing build has these powers, and they have not provided any +Def Str since they entered testing.

[Draeth Darkstar]

Just now, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

This is something that applies to two new powers, and any future power that grants +Boost for longer than 15 seconds. No existing build has these powers, and they have not provided any +Def Str since they entered testing.

Okay, cool. So, no plans to change existing Power Boosts, at least currently?

[Captain Powerhouse]

Power Boost is only 12.5 seconds, no current plans to change it.

 

I already mentioned in another thread about issues with Farsight, but that will be addressed in Farsight, not in Power Boost. Further discussion of that would be ideally done on that thread.