crafting Yellow Salvage Prices

[Bionic_Flea]

2 minutes ago, THEDarkTyger said:

What you're saying is like saying an adult should be able to pay their bills off what they made for allowance as a kid because, hey, $20 a week was a lot of money back then!

Well, if you had properly invested those $20 a week starting at 8 years old . . .

 

😋

Edited March 15, 2020 by Bionic_Flea

[Vyx]

3 minutes ago, THEDarkTyger said:

Just stop talking, you're embarrassing yourself. That couple million inf at level 8 isn't going to last long. You realize you don't stay level 8 forever, right? In fact, you're well above that by the time you come out of the TF... What you're saying is like saying an adult should be able to pay their bills off what they made for allowance as a kid because, hey, $20 a week was a lot of money back then!

You're metaphors are so off it's actually funny. Making inf in Homecoming is far easier than in live- that is a fact. I have many level 50's who were able to pay their own way to level 50 in enhancements without farming just by playing content and using their merits on things like converters to turn 500k enhancements into 3mil ones with just a couple converters. Sorry if you are so against playing content and are unable to make any money in a game that drops so much.

Edited March 15, 2020 by Vyx

[SwitchFade]

I posted way back on page... 2?

 

I didn't even read after that. I clicked the last page and saw flame...

 

And bought marshmallows 😁

 

So toasty...

 

If I take my salvage to the bathroom... Is it yellow salvage?

 

I'm not sure we can salvage this thread.

 

 

[MunkiLord]

1 hour ago, THEDarkTyger said:

Don't see how you logic out that absurd conclusion. If the floor is higher, the ceiling tends to rise in sync. Either way, though, the "floor" is only higher because the flippers are artificially raising it, which only benefits them. And it's only really higher for non-flippers.

No, the ceiling doesn't go higher in sync, because if the flippers want it to sell, they must price it lower. Even if it is something in which supply is extremely low, if they post it at too high a price either nobody will bid that high or other people will notice and jump in to make influence themselves. Flipping isn't a race to higher prices, it's a race to the middle. And it also benefits the other people that post their stuff for lower prices, as they make more since the floor is higher. It unequivocally benefits people besides just the flipper.

 

 

[THEDarkTyger]

10 minutes ago, Vyx said:

Making inf in Homecoming is far easier than in live- that is a fact

Yes, it is. And jacking up the prices makes that inf go not much farther than it did in Live. That is a fact. Unless you farm. Your problem here is you seem to be unable to grasp the concept of scale. That couple million you can make from a TF isn't going to do you much good when you get up to 50... Even if you run TFs all the way there, in which case you're also bypassing a LOT of other normal content.

Edited March 15, 2020 by THEDarkTyger

[THEDarkTyger]

2 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

if they post it at too high a price either nobody will bid that high or other people will notice and jump in to make influence themselves

Funny how that's exactly what keeps happening with yellow salvage...............................

[MunkiLord]

4 minutes ago, THEDarkTyger said:

Funny how that's exactly what keeps happening with yellow salvage...............................

I'm really not sure what you're trying to say here.

[Without_Pause]

Decided it was silly for me to have multiple items to store salvage in my base and more so since I vastly moved to a different server. I'm just going to buy as needed for my characters. Needless to say I dumped a ton of yellow salvage on the market for cheap last night. I only got about half way done before logging.

[THEDarkTyger]

Just now, MunkiLord said:

I'm really not sure what you're trying to say here.

You tried to counter me by giving a scenario that would happen if what I said was true. Funnily that's exactly what's happening. But it's not countering the problem one bit. Honestly, you guys sound like the guys like this trying to defend their BS:

 

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2020/03/the-hand-sanitizer-you-cant-find-is-in-this-putzs-garage

[MunkiLord]

1 minute ago, THEDarkTyger said:

You tried to counter me by giving a scenario that would happen if what I said was true. Funnily that's exactly what's happening. But it's not countering the problem one bit. Honestly, you guys sound like the guys like this trying to defend their BS:

 

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2020/03/the-hand-sanitizer-you-cant-find-is-in-this-putzs-garage

Then the price hasn't yet reached a point in which people are unwilling to pay it, it's really that simple. The market is set by the buyers. If they aren't willing to buy it at posted prices, it won't sell. And comparing an infinite good like digital luxury items in a game is not at all similar to people price gouging safety items during a pandemic when people are scared. Circling back to your first reply to me, I think you've demonstrated you're the one using absurd logic. 

32 minutes ago, Obus Form said:

Here Comes A New Challenger!

 

 

You're giving people WAY too much credit.

 

[Heraclea]

My characters function as a commune.  They share their drops: converters, catalysts, salvage, crafted enhancements, even inspirations.  If there was a sharing storage rack for recipes they'd be shared too.  When a character gets a desirable recipe some other character can use, the odds are excellent that the uncommon and rare salvage needed to make it are already in the base. 

 

Inf, by contrast, is greasy kid stuff.   In the old game I learned not to have confidence in it as a store of value.  It serves very few purposes.  I will buy salvage with it,  mostly white salvage a character does not have, or when a memorizer needs to craft a batch of lowbie IOs: again, the uncommons and rares are probably sitting at the base.  I spend inf at the P2W store.  And I make sure characters have enough to craft their drops.  And when a character starts to get too much inf I will buy pre-catalyzed enhancements at the AH.  But I wash my hands for twenty seconds afterwards. 

[Brutal Justice]

2 hours ago, Obus Form said:

Here Comes A New Challenger!

 

 

I am a little shocked nobody has accused her of not knowing how to use the AH to her advantage.  You ebil marketeers are really slipping.  

[THEDarkTyger]

1 hour ago, MunkiLord said:

Then the price hasn't yet reached a point in which people are unwilling to pay it, it's really that simple

It hasn't yet reached the point where the people who farm inf full time and can throw it around easily aren't willing to pay for it. It's reached the point where it hurts the normal players to pay for it. Hence the complaints. But glad to hear that the top teir farmers are the only people you give two craps about!

[Obus Form]

1 hour ago, MunkiLord said:

You're giving people WAY too much credit.

I'm just trying to share some good influence...

Edited March 15, 2020 by Obus Form
Good

[MunkiLord]

11 minutes ago, THEDarkTyger said:

It hasn't yet reached the point where the people who farm inf full time and can throw it around easily aren't willing to pay for it. It's reached the point where it hurts the normal players to pay for it. Hence the complaints. But glad to hear that the top teir farmers are the only people you give two craps about!

Normal people can pay for it, they get other drops they can sell if they want to do so. And the higher level a character is, the fewer enemies needed to defeat. 

 

As for your last sentence, that's not true, I've demonstrated it many times. So you made that up and it's all in your head. Between your silly comparison to real life price gougers and now made up nonsense claiming I only care about top tier farmers, it's clear you're just being emotional and making arguments loaded with the intent to manipulate the argument by appealing to emotions instead of things like logic and facts. Which I get, when people like you don't have reality on your side, you have to make things up. 

 

When you want to come back to reality and want to discuss the topic like an adult, I'm happy to do so. Until then, replying to you directly is beneath me You're clearly the type of person that is going to need the last word to push their delusion and made up nonsense, so I will let you have it. You're welcome. 

Edited March 15, 2020 by MunkiLord

[Obus Form]

13 minutes ago, Mr.Sinister said:

I am a little shocked nobody has accused her of not knowing how to use the AH to her advantage.  You ebil marketeers are really slipping.  

Dear Valued Student,

 

Thank you for contacting us.  The UFC highly values your input and will return your email as soon as possible.

 

As you may have heard in the news, due to COVID-19 and to protect our staff, students, and our nig miserly ways, the UFC is temporarily closed.  We will resume operations when the Board and local health authorities deem it safe to do so.  Similar to life satisfaction, happiness, and knowing How To Win Friends and Influence Markets, we hope this temporary time of self-isolation gives you time to reflect on the important things in life.  Changing one's point of view is often the beginning of greatness.  Again we appreciate your email and will respond as soon as possible.  Good luck on your journey to becoming a COH Influencer!

 

 

Sincerely,

The UFC Board

[THEDarkTyger]

6 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

Normal people can pay for it, they get other drops they can sell if they want to do so

Not simply playing the game normally they can't. Defending the greedy artificial inflation kinda runs counter to your objection to that last line you quoted... Sorry, but most people just play the game and don't play the market or AE farm. Driving up prices only hurts those players.

[MunkiLord]

So I go to start up Bordlerlands 3 and because of this thread I start City of Heroes by mistake.

 

30 minutes ago, Mr.Sinister said:

I am a little shocked nobody has accused her of not knowing how to use the AH to her advantage.  You ebil marketeers are really slipping.  

The information is in this thread, other threads, at least one person has offered to help people directly, and at least two people are giving away influence. We can't hold everyone's hand. I think at this point stating the City of Heroes equivalent of "Ok Boomer" is as productive of a tactic as anything else.

[Obus Form]

23 minutes ago, THEDarkTyger said:

Not simply playing the game normally they can't. Defending the greedy artificial inflation kinda runs counter to your objection to that last line you quoted... Sorry, but most people just play the game and don't play the market or AE farm. Driving up prices only hurts those players.

Your tears.  So delicate, so delicious.

 

If you feel comfortable and if I may, the /Market forum and guides give amazing tips on generating influence.

[Grouchybeast]

4 hours ago, THEDarkTyger said:

Not simply playing the game normally they can't. Defending the greedy artificial inflation kinda runs counter to your objection to that last line you quoted... Sorry, but most people just play the game and don't play the market or AE farm. Driving up prices only hurts those players.

There are, roughly, 100 slots on a level 50 character.  Let's be generous and assuming that every slot needs filling with something that takes at least as much to craft as a rare recipe.  So you would need roughly 200 pieces of common salvage, 100 pieces of yellow salvage and 100 pieces of rare salvage to make a full build and 100 recipes

 

Would you expect more or fewer than 200 pieces of common salvage to drop over the entire levelling career of a character?

Would you expect more or fewer than 100 pieces of uncommon salvage to drop over the entire levelling career of a character?

Would you expect more or fewer than 100 pieces of rare salvage to drop over the entire levelling career of a character?

Would you expect more or fewer than 100 recipes to drop over the entire levelling career of a character?

 

If there are 'artificially' high prices, then they benefit every single person who sells items on the market, especially the low level characters, who have the potential to make far more margin by crafting and selling drops than level 50 characters.  Oh, but what if all my drops aren't Luck of the Gambler +7.5% Rech, you ask?  Well, luckily, the cheap and easy converter rolling on HC means that your vendor junk (yes, sir, you at the back -- your vendor junk!) can become valuable IOs to sell to fund your build.

 

Remember also that you can always get the same price that a flipper pays by bidding their price +1 inf and waiting.  All you need to do is to have some patience, and you can save any hypothetical flipper's entire margin simply by bidding and waiting.  Bid and wait.  That's the real one weird trick that marketeers don't want you to know* for how to use the market.  Bid, and wait.

 

 

 

*This is a lie.  You literally can't stop marketeers from rushing up and telling you all their money making tips the moment you show the slightest interest.  It's much harder to get the market forum to shut up about how to make money than it is to make money on the market.

Edited March 15, 2020 by Grouchybeast

[Yomo Kimyata]

57 minutes ago, Grouchybeast said:

 

 

*This is a lie.  You literally can't stop marketeers from rushing up and telling you all their money making tips the moment you show the slightest interest.  It's much harder to get the market forum to shut up about how to make money that it is to make money on the market.

Blah blah blah inf blah!

[Sir Myshkin]

10 hours ago, Vyx said:

I didn't say selling at simply a lower price. I said crashing the price by selling at a much lower price is very clear manipulation that undercuts the price of everyone else- which is why the prices keep dropping so quickly.

I think you might have missed the concern of this thread from the beginning. The origination of what was being discussed was that uncommon salvage was trending in the range of 1,000 to 2,000 INF on average, and has suddenly, and directly due to one (or potentially more) person(s) bidding out UC salvage at a minimum of 25,555 INF per unit, which has instantly cut out any surplus that existed, and been quickly swiping most commonly posted low asking prices.

 

There are few in this game that post salvage for a significant value beyond "10" for the ask, and on occasion for some they will set the minimum sell rate from a vendor as an alternative to at least make what they would've as a preliminary. We are seeing a concern where the price is being driven up by a drastic margin, and oddly the floor that's been created (most likely by that same person) has become 12,000-15,000 minimum, as I have yet to manage the purchase of any UC salvage at 10,000 INF within the last two weeks.

 

For the record though, in the realm of a price being set, and another player dropping a lower asking price, this isn't manipulation, and it's barely competition. Many don't care about trying to set a specific limit, and even then setting a lower asking price just gives better odds of catching a wider range that still works within their desired profit margin. If a set amount of players continually keep purchasing a product at a price that is excessively higher than the asking price, that is over paying. If the net margin begins lower than that, and a player continues to post at a lower price, yet others keep bidding excessively beyond it, that's on them. Salvage like Luck of the Gambler is a good example of this. The minimum asking rate for those pieces tends to be around 5M INF for any one piece, but between impatience, and just... random aggressive bidding, some of those parts have commonly gone up to 10M per unit. Over time it has caused the trending price of the 7.5% +Rech piece to end up at a range of 7M-8M, yet people still commonly post their asking prices in the 5M-6M range.

7 hours ago, THEDarkTyger said:

Not simply playing the game normally they can't. Defending the greedy artificial inflation kinda runs counter to your objection to that last line you quoted... Sorry, but most people just play the game and don't play the market or AE farm. Driving up prices only hurts those players.

They weren't wrong about the intent of their message, but the delivery (as I see it, in interpreting the message) was poor. Essentially you don't need to "play the market" or farm in this game to earn INF, just natural play and selling pieces as arises is possible without major impact on any one players ability to develop their characters enhancements throughout the journey from 1 to 50.

 

As an example: If you go out and run the early TFs like Posi 1 and 2, use those merits to buy a handful of Converters from the vendor exchange, and sell them on the Auction House for 90k a piece. Lets say you cash out an early amount and put 60 up. They sell for a bit up, and you end up with 5,400,000 after fees. Now at level 10-15 I have enough INF to buy SO's if I wanted, or probably an efficient amount to get some IO's in my early 20's. I keep doing TF's though, and keep building up that stash. Forgive me if I'm wrong, I generally just click the button without paying attention, but I think the exchange is 10 Merits for 30 Converters. If I build up 150 Merits by, say, 30, I have 450 Converters, and I post them up and get lucky and average out 42,750,000 in INF. It's pretty easy at this point to go out and look for recipes I might find useful and start bidding on them low, and get them set early. If I play smart and avoid buying any single recipe above level 40 (45 max), I can keep the crafting cost of that individual enhancement below 200k.

 

Lets use some hypothetical "statistics" as posted by another player so far. 2 Common, 1 Uncommon, and 1 Rare per IO I craft. Lets go out and buy those salvage pieces at a common (current) going rate: 500, 15,000, and 500,000 respectively. Per IO, with a 200k craft cost and (lets say) a 100k average Recipe cost, I'm looking at 816,000 INF per IO I craft. With the INF I've earned by selling Converters (and nothing else) I have enough to afford 52 enhancements in my build, or about half which is pretty much right on target for being at level 30.

 

Now right now your argument up to this point had been that someone altering the UC salvage was going to make it ... difficult, we'll say at the minimum to your concern, compared to normal. So I did a cost reflection of buying the UC salvage at max price of 100k INF compared to 15k, and the impact in this scenario is the difference of affording 5 crafted enhancements. A cost which could be instantly recouped by simply taking down a handful of GM's, or doing Synapse, or Manticore, and getting 20 Merits and cashing them out into Converters. An extra hour of time is all it costs a normal person to recoup the current dilemma.

 

The current circumstance of the market is an inconvenience at best for most of players. The people this impacts more significantly, is in fact--and marginally ironic to your argument--those that flip crafted enhancements on the market by buying low recipes and converting them out in bulk.

 

 

 

That aside, this thread seriously devolved and I think we need to let time consume it and drift into the darkest pages of the forums.

[Yomo Kimyata]

On 3/15/2020 at 3:19 PM, Grouchybeast said:

 

*This is a lie.  You literally can't stop marketeers from rushing up and telling you all their money making tips the moment you show the slightest interest.  It's much harder to get the market forum to shut up about how to make money than it is to make money on the market.

You sly dog!  You got me monologuing!

 

 

[Sovera]

On 3/15/2020 at 7:19 PM, Grouchybeast said:

*This is a lie.  You literally can't stop marketeers from rushing up and telling you all their money making tips the moment you show the slightest interest.  It's much harder to get the market forum to shut up about how to make money than it is to make money on the market.

This is so true. You'd think there would be widespread attempts at stiffling things, but while I'm not saying everyone has some niche they are not advertising on a whole I've seen that marketeers just want everyone to share some of the cake.

[Coyote]

On 3/15/2020 at 1:03 PM, THEDarkTyger said:

Not simply playing the game normally they can't. Defending the greedy artificial inflation kinda runs counter to your objection to that last line you quoted... Sorry, but most people just play the game and don't play the market or AE farm. Driving up prices only hurts those players.

 

Just to note... we ARE talking about yellow snow.... I mean salvage here, right? This is being manipulated, apparently, to push up its price by about 10-15k per item. Considering that most recipes will use 1-2 yellow items, maybe 3 at the high end.... this is going to cost someone crafting an IO about 45k more. Consider the cost of a single rare salvage in the recipe, and also the cost of crafting a recipe once you're in the 30s and.... does it really look like this particular manipulation is going to have characters broke where before they had enough money to craft all their recipes?

 

The discussion is interesting. The puzzle of who is doing it, and why, and how, also seems interesting. But let's not take it too seriously and get too upset about it... it's peanuts even for your first character.