Decoupling Pronouns From Body Type

[Wolf Bonne]

The game ties what pronouns it will call up to the body type of your character for things like badge titles, mission text, and NPC text. While this is in most cases fine, I'd appreciate the ability to move it into a drop down menu within the costume editor and tie it to a selected costume, which would be the ideal middle ground implementation for such a feature, defaulting to the usually associated pronouns for each body type so no one has to even give it a thought if they don't care.

 

I want to stress that I am not asking for custom or "nonstandard" pronouns. That would be amazing, but I am fine with what's written into the game for extra customization.

[Yuanakil]

I think this is perfectly reasonable and a desirable feature. Can somebody with the knowledge say how easy or difficult this would be to implement? It seems simple on the face of it.

[Zolgar]

I want to stress that I am not asking for custom or "nonstandard" pronouns. That would be amazing, but I am fine with what's written into the game for extra customization.

 

You KNOW if they implemented custom pronouns, someone out there would change their pronoun in game to "the attack helicopter" just to be a troll. It would be a funny troll. Once.

 

That aside, I completely agree with and support this suggestion.

[TinyBolt]

I'm okay with trolls trying to come up with goofy pronouns if those who want it for more serious reasons also had access to this. Love this idea! Fingers crossed it's not a hard fix.

[Heraclea]

At least it would be something the 4chan server never will have. 

[Adeon Hawkwood]

I'll admit I'd quite like this. Back on live I had a character who was a female wearing a suit of power armor. Since I hate how the armored options look for women (why would I put heels on a suit of power armor?) I ended up using the male body type for her armored form.

[leese]

This'd be good and I'd love to see the option available, it really hurts nobody.

 

That said, I wouldn't get all your hopes up for non-binary options. Several of the contacts have completely different text depending on whether the character is male or female, so there would need to be a definite base male/female option even if you could otherwise customise your pronouns.

 

I'm guessing coding an additional check to see if the gender is over-ridden wouldn't be too hard. Having full customisation of pronouns would need some UI work, so it's probably not trivial.

[WanderingAries]

Just something to bring up if it helps...

 

The code for the game (the little I've seen) hard codes things to (Fe)Male/Huge. I'm not sure the global, in-game impact, but you also have NPC responses that are directly coded to M/F gender. It's how they setup the story vids as well from what I can tell. What you're asking is likely a modification of the fundamental databases that the game is built upon and that code is already spaghettified as of OG. Now if someone manages to spend a LOT of time cleaning up the core code and Then chooses to allow for such changes, then sure, we'd get much done in the game, but at that point we'd also need graphic artists and such, IE: a whole dev team like in OG.

[Crysta Clear]

How about fixing the combat log strings for incoming healing / endurance first? Don't even need to add a new conditional, just delete the pronoun from it entirely. Log text does not need to be perfectly grammatically correct, it just needs to be concise.

 

Every time my psion gal's Performance Shifter or Panacea procs tick, the incoming healing message misgenders her. I've had to turn off the incoming healing messages to avoid cringing myself to death every time I see it, but then my combat log doesn't show when other people heal me.

[OmegaX123]

I fully support this, both for trans/genderfluid/genderqueer/agender rights as well as for characters inspired by the likes of Starhawk (sometimes) or Ranma Saotome, who switch between male and female forms.

[MetaVileTerror]

100% support to this, and have said it since pre-Issue 1 on the original Live forums as well.  I used the female character model for my main since it is more slender, but my main has never been female.

 

Also, not to be too meme'y, but "2019 current year argument!"

[ghost emoji]

I'd love this. In addition to trans and genderqueer characters it would be nice to have more costume/body options that don't automatically pick a character's gender.

[Player2]

The game ties what pronouns it will call up to the body type of your character for things like badge titles, mission text, and NPC text. While this is in most cases fine, I'd appreciate the ability to move it into a drop down menu within the costume editor and tie it to a selected costume, which would be the ideal middle ground implementation for such a feature, defaulting to the usually associated pronouns for each body type so no one has to even give it a thought if they don't care.

There is a workaround to getting what you want.  When you use the cosmetic surgeon to change your body type, you still retain those pronoun references tied to your original body type.  For example, I had a huge axe/willpower brute back in the day and I wasn't overly thrilled with the concept.  Instead of deleting and rerolling, I took advantage of the newly introduced cosmetic surgeon option which allowed changing height and body type.  Later, in game, I found that the new female character was referred to in that mission text still as a "he".

 

So basically choose the gender with the pronoun you want at start, then visit the Icon cosmetic surgeon and change body types.  You can be a masculine or huge body type referred to as "she" or a feminine type referred to as "he" to your heart's content.

[Charistoph]

Aside from situations where the character is from a species which is fluid-sex or is a body-hopping being like the Khelds, I don't really see the point (custom pronouns would be for monosex and multi-sex species).  Gender is supposed to be a socialogical construct, so I don't see how changing the presentation of the biology would change that.  Not to mention, some people tie pronouns to biology where applicable, not sociology.

 

Still, as I continue to think about it, there is enough comic history behind people body-hopping, and even characters being represented by different people (how many people have worn the Daredevil and Batman costumes now?).  If that is a reason to pursue it, I see no reason not to include it.

[Wolf Bonne]

The game ties what pronouns it will call up to the body type of your character for things like badge titles, mission text, and NPC text. While this is in most cases fine, I'd appreciate the ability to move it into a drop down menu within the costume editor and tie it to a selected costume, which would be the ideal middle ground implementation for such a feature, defaulting to the usually associated pronouns for each body type so no one has to even give it a thought if they don't care.

There is a workaround to getting what you want.  When you use the cosmetic surgeon to change your body type, you still retain those pronoun references tied to your original body type.  For example, I had a huge axe/willpower brute back in the day and I wasn't overly thrilled with the concept.  Instead of deleting and rerolling, I took advantage of the newly introduced cosmetic surgeon option which allowed changing height and body type.  Later, in game, I found that the new female character was referred to in that mission text still as a "he".

 

So basically choose the gender with the pronoun you want at start, then visit the Icon cosmetic surgeon and change body types.  You can be a masculine or huge body type referred to as "she" or a feminine type referred to as "he" to your heart's content.

 

I didn't specifically check the Icon/Facemaker, but switching costumes also switches flag as well. An interesting bug, but wouldn't work for what I specifically would like.

 

Aside from situations where the character is from a species which is fluid-sex or is a body-hopping being like the Khelds, I don't really see the point (custom pronouns would be for monosex and multi-sex species).  Gender is supposed to be a socialogical construct, so I don't see how changing the presentation of the biology would change that.  Not to mention, some people tie pronouns to biology where applicable, not sociology.

 

Little Red Riding Hood transforming into a giant wolf in the middle of a group of enemies wouldn't make those around her suddenly refer to her with masculine pronouns if, ostensibly, she is exactly the same person. Or a robot or cosmic character, some form of entity where "it" might be applicable as a custom pronoun (or people who choose it for themselves for their personal reasons). Some people, like myself, can refer to themselves with differing pronouns depending on context, cuz, as you say, it's a social construct, so it can be malleable and shifting. As for tieing pronouns to biology, sure, that's fine for any non human. Mostly that's all besides the point, it'd just open up more customization options.

 

Anyway, glad people are cool with it, I was nervous to suggest this cuz the jokes are easy these days.

[Solvernia]

there are only 3 genders:

 

[Solarverse]

I dont really care one way or another, however, I am concerned with how much resources and time would be going in to a politically correct function, that a good portion of people are most likely not going to agree with. Not everyone believes in the gender pronouns movement. Just seems to me that we should leave any real life politics out of a game. It just brings real life issues in to a game that people play to get away from real life issues. I dont care if it is added, I just feel this could potentially stir up trouble in a community that is fine without being political in any real life way. Just some food for thought, how important is this to you? If you find it a top priority, then by all means, continue. If not, might be best to leave it alone. Your choice, just wanted to send a bit of logic your way to give you so.ething to think about.

[Charistoph]

As for tieing pronouns to biology, sure, that's fine for any non human.

 

So why isn't it fine for humans?  That sounds rather specist.  Most of humanity's cultures tie pronouns to biology where it applies, and it is only a few cultures which do tie pronouns with any cultural significance (such as the Latin languages, which have no indefinite pronouns).

[Solvernia]

I am concerned with how much resources and time would be going in to a politically correct function

 

i agree, people with identities i don't like should go to the back of the line and wait their turn for the real content to come out first

[Wolf Bonne]

I dont really care one way or another, however, I am concerned with how much resources and time would be going in to a politically correct function, that a good portion of people are most likely not going to agree with. Not everyone believes in the gender pronouns movement. Just seems to me that we should leave any real life politics out of a game. It just brings real life issues in to a game that people play to get away from real life issues. I dont care if it is added, I just feel this could potentially stir up trouble in a community that is fine without being political in any real life way. Just some food for thought, how important is this to you? If you find it a top priority, then by all means, continue. If not, might be best to leave it alone. Your choice, just wanted to send a bit of logic your way to give you so.ething to think about.

 

Honey, not everything is as politically loaded as you might assume it is. Sometimes you just want a little red riding hood character to burst into a giant werewolf and have some continuity to it. And my post is under the understanding that it could be not worth the hassle for a pretty small feature. Just throwin' a little logic back at your way.

 

As for tieing pronouns to biology, sure, that's fine for any non human.

 

So why isn't it fine for humans?  That sounds rather specist.  Most of humanity's cultures tie pronouns to biology where it applies, and it is only a few cultures which do tie pronouns with any cultural significance (such as the Latin languages, which have no indefinite pronouns).

 

It's fine to assume, if a person corrects you on what they use for themselves, that's your hill to die on if you wanna. I don't really care what a dog might think or a fictional alien. Like I said, not really the point of my suggestion. Ain't here to change minds lol.

[Solarverse]

I dont really care one way or another, however, I am concerned with how much resources and time would be going in to a politically correct function, that a good portion of people are most likely not going to agree with. Not everyone believes in the gender pronouns movement. Just seems to me that we should leave any real life politics out of a game. It just brings real life issues in to a game that people play to get away from real life issues. I dont care if it is added, I just feel this could potentially stir up trouble in a community that is fine without being political in any real life way. Just some food for thought, how important is this to you? If you find it a top priority, then by all means, continue. If not, might be best to leave it alone. Your choice, just wanted to send a bit of logic your way to give you so.ething to think about.

 

Honey, not everything is as politically loaded as you might assume it is. Sometimes you just want a little red riding hood character to burst into a giant werewolf and have some continuity to it. And my post is under the understanding that it could be not worth the hassle for a pretty small feature. Just throwin' a little logic back at your way.

 

Awwww, you called me "honey."  :D

[Charistoph]

Honey, not everything is as politically loaded as you might assume it is. Sometimes you just want a little red riding hood character to burst into a giant werewolf and have some continuity to it. And my post is under the understanding that it could be not worth the hassle for a pretty small feature. Just throwin' a little logic back at your way.

 

Because people have made it a political issue whenever it comes up.

 

However, you do bring up a point that I've always wondered.  Why are the heavies always assumed to be male?  I know of a few comic ladies who were not petite at all, and would have a hard time recreating them using the Physique slider.

 

And then there is the other aspect I mentioned with the Kheldians being able to hop boddies, and what about Thor and when Jane was worthy enough to pick up Mjolnir.

 

I almost wonder if it would be easier to add that as a fourth gender than putting in the suggestion you said.  After all, you have to go through A LOT of code, including the responses, to fix it.

 

As for tieing pronouns to biology, sure, that's fine for any non human.

 

So why isn't it fine for humans?  That sounds rather specist.  Most of humanity's cultures tie pronouns to biology where it applies, and it is only a few cultures which do tie pronouns with any cultural significance (such as the Latin languages, which have no indefinite pronouns).

 

It's fine to assume, if a person corrects you on what they use for themselves, that's your hill to die on if you wanna. I don't really care what a dog might think or a fictional alien. Like I said, not really the point of my suggestion. Ain't here to change minds lol.

 

It's not so much a hill to die on, as it is getting charged, San Juan Hill-style, over it.

[Wolf Bonne]

Honey, not everything is as politically loaded as you might assume it is. Sometimes you just want a little red riding hood character to burst into a giant werewolf and have some continuity to it. And my post is under the understanding that it could be not worth the hassle for a pretty small feature. Just throwin' a little logic back at your way.

 

Because people have made it a political issue whenever it comes up.

 

However, you do bring up a point that I've always wondered.  Why are the heavies always assumed to be male?  I know of a few comic ladies who were not petite at all, and would have a hard time recreating them using the Physique slider.

 

And then there is the other aspect I mentioned with the Kheldians being able to hop boddies, and what about Thor and when Jane was worthy enough to pick up Mjolnir.

 

I almost wonder if it would be easier to add that as a fourth gender than putting in the suggestion you said.  After all, you have to go through A LOT of code, including the responses, to fix it.

 

People do make it one, yeah. That's the intent of what I said. As for the rest.... okay? I think it'd take a lot of work to make a fourth body type for a more feminine huge option, as you'd have to fit all the costume options or make new ones, and is honestly outside the scope of my suggestion. All for it, though. Assuming I understand what you're suggesting.

[OmegaX123]

however, I am concerned with how much resources and time would be going in to a politically correct function

It's only a 'politically correct function' if you only choose to see it as one. Like I said in my previous comment, it also works for characters who have a costume that's female and one that's male (care of the cosmetic surgeon) and are playing to a concept reminiscent of Starhawk when Stakar's sister was sharing a body with him, or Ranma from the anime Ranma 1/2.

[_NOPE_]

+1 to the OP. I ain't touching the rest of the conversation with a ten foot pole.