Discussion: Disabling XP No Longer Increases Influence

[Grouchybeast]

Just now, Luminara said:

 

Comparative analysis of goods valuation.  If you know something is useful, and the cost seems low, and you believe it can be higher, and you can purchase a sufficient percentage of the supply, you can push the price higher.

I don't really care about theory, though.  I want to know how I can make inf using this price-fixing I hear so much about.  People keep claiming it's really easy and that market prices are high because marketeers fix them.  I'm sure that eventually someone will be able to tell me how it's done in practise!  I mean, there are step-by-step guides for all the other ways of making piles of inf on the market, right?  Why is everyone so coy about this one?

 

It's like it isn't really possible or something.  😞

[Gremlin]

8 minutes ago, Luminara said:

Comparative analysis of goods valuation.  If you know something is useful, and the cost seems low, and you believe it can be higher, and you can purchase a sufficient percentage of the supply, you can push the price higher.

This doesn't work. If you try to buy a significant proportion of something you'll push the price up because you have to out-bid everyone else. As soon as you stop stop buying the price will rapidly return to normal because the influx of new items won't have stopped. You're now holding a load of stock that cost more than the current price. What do you do with it? If you put it up for sale at an unusually high price then it won't sell. People will just pay the usual rate. If you sell it at a low price you'll lose inf on every sale and you'll push the price down for a while. The only thing you can do without going broke is to turn the items you bought into something more valuable and sell it at a profit. That'll stop you going bust but it won't have manipulated the price. At this point you're not manipulating the market, you're just trading.

 

 

[Luminara]

6 minutes ago, Grouchybeast said:

It's like it isn't really possible or something.  😞

 

I did, sort of, come to that point.  😉

[Grouchybeast]

Just now, Luminara said:

 

I did, sort of, come to that point.  😉

Once more my dreams are crushed!  😭 😭 😭

Edited April 20, 2020 by Grouchybeast

[SwitchFade]

15 minutes ago, Digirium said:

Wow, it will never cease to amaze how people can conflate the issue with absurd arguments.

 

With the change to how influence enters the game all the players have to play more, for longer than before to afford their builds. More influence entering the game while a player is playing to gain the influence for that build is longer now than it was before. This flies in the face of things like double XP boosters where the intention was to take half the play time compared to before.

 

The players still end up with the same influence bill for their build but their play time required is that much longer now (casual and farmer both).

 

Still we have the same people disregarding these simple facts and deploying high level pseudo-economic arguments that do not apply here, in a video game. They continually fail to acknowledge that the nerf was only right in one respect (patrol experience was not being consumed while in exemplar mode) and wrong in another (disabling XP for influence).

 

How players gain their influence is rightly a subject of examination here.

 

Those that play the game I've no issue with at all - it doesn't matter how, if you're casual or farming AE. I'd say farming AE was also casual play - nobody farms when they are not motivated to pay for a build. And there are casual players converted to AE farming all the time, for the same reason. But those that gain their influence not playing the game - by exploiting the efforts of those actually playing the game, not enough is being said against them. When players bring this up - we go around in the circular arguments again and it's a distraction: the dead cat hurled on the table.

 

And we're running out of cats.

I'm sorry, you are incorrect.

 

That's not how any of this works.

 

Further, I'm not using pseudo-economics, please see the posts explaining why I know all this.

 

And, I'm not the only one, many others are well versed in the subject, as evinced by their posts.

 

You're willfully ignoring every person who has given you hard facts and evidence to support their claims.

[Luminara]

3 minutes ago, Gremlin said:

This doesn't work.

 

That's what I said in the rest of that post.  With less brevity.

[Gremlin]

Just now, Luminara said:

 

That's what I said in the rest of that post.  With less brevity.

Ah sorry. I missed that.

[Yomo Kimyata]

19 minutes ago, BigGotter said:

What happens when the player base doubles? Wont that generate twice the influence into the economy? Will influence have to be cut in half again to offset it?

Twice as many players, twice as much demand.  Twice as much influence generation, twice as much goods generation.  This would be great for the economy.

 

The potential downside is that there would be twice as many people (not you!) spouting conspiracy theories.

[Gremlin]

1 minute ago, SwitchFade said:

That's not how any of this works.

Sometimes it seems like this thread exists purely to torture @SwitchFade.

[Luminara]

3 minutes ago, Gremlin said:

Ah sorry. I missed that.

 

That's okay.  I'll still let you play with my kitty.

 

Um... she's half Savannah.  And a tortie.  Might want to wear a bomb suit.  😄

[Luminara]

2 minutes ago, Gremlin said:

Sometimes it seems like this thread exists purely to torture @SwitchFade.

 

It's his own fault for not bringing construction paper and crayons.

[Lines]

25 minutes ago, Digirium said:

Still we have the same people disregarding these simple facts and deploying high level pseudo-economic arguments that do not apply here, in a video game. 

How do they not apply? Explain.

 

You've repeatedly given incorrect definitions of very simple economic concepts, you really don't have a leg to stand on calling other people's assertions pseudo.

[Gremlin]

24 minutes ago, BigGotter said:

What happens when the player base doubles? Wont that generate twice the influence into the economy? Will influence have to be cut in half again to offset it?

If this change has managed to squash inflation then I'd expect doubling the player base to have no effect on prices. It would double the turnover of every item though. I think this would make the prices slightly more stable.

 

I'm not sure what would happen if we're still experiencing inflation. I'd guess it wouldn't matter. As @Yomo Kimyatasaid, we'd have twice as many people trying to buy twice as much stuff so it should even out.

[Digirium]

13 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

I'm sorry, you are incorrect.

 

That's not how any of this works.

 

Further, I'm not using pseudo-economics, please see the posts explaining why I know all this.

 

And, I'm not the only one, many others are well versed in the subject, as evinced by their posts.

 

You're willfully ignoring every person who has given you hard facts and evidence to support their claims.

I am correct; it was a nerf that went too far -- patrol XP ought to have been consumed when a player was under exemplar, it had to be fixed. Disabling the option to receive influence instead of XP was not right. You and others keep rolling out irrelevant economics waffle again and again to dismiss this very obvious issue with what was nerfed. You take affront at the rejection of your patterned economic thinking that you keep repeating mindlessly, when you forget that this is a video game with a pretend market place and fail to acknowledge the real objectives behind the nerf were nothing to do with economics at all. Players that use AE to farm influence have been under attack for a very long time -- the increase to mob damage output in the AE didn't play out, so this was the answer.

[Lockpick]

37 minutes ago, Digirium said:

Wow, it will never cease to amaze how people can conflate the issue with absurd arguments.

I agree; you have been making absurd arguments since you joined this thread.  The reason so many people are pushing back against you is because you are dead wrong.

 

3 hours ago, Digirium said:

I've not witnessed prices get any lower since the great nerf at the start of the month - they stayed the same.

I was looking at prices this weekend and many of the sets I would normally sell are down.  LoTGs are still the same, but many other sets look down to me.

 

On another note, I never really knew much about AFK farming.  When people talked about farming and making their billions I always thought they farmed like I do in that they go in and actively clear the map.  I didn't realize they went into a mission and alt-tabbed out and were able to make millions doing nothing.  That seems like an exploit to me, so should probably be fixed.

[skoryy]

26 minutes ago, Gremlin said:

Sometimes it seems like this thread exists purely to torture @SwitchFade.

Welcome to 60 pages of Bad Economics: Homecoming Edition.

[skoryy]

11 minutes ago, Digirium said:

Players that use AE to farm influence have been under attack for a very long time

Oops, I forgot its also 60 pages of Oppression Olympics: Homecoming Edition.

[tidge]

46 minutes ago, Gremlin said:

Sometimes it seems like this thread exists purely to torture @SwitchFade.

This thread:

 

 

SwitchFade:

 

 

Edited April 20, 2020 by tidge

[Crysis]

3 hours ago, EmmySky said:

Lately I have been running several baby toons through to maybe 25 or 30ish without passing them cash.  Every single one of them, using 2xp so no inf just drop sales, has been able to afford their own Reveal (must have!!) by about lvl 3 and the standard health and stamina procs along with 25 common IOs by 22.  

 

Granted, I don't do a lot of high end build stuff, most of my 50s are slotted with common IOs and a few procs.  If I didn't sell all my crap on AH at 100 I could certainly increase my profits and afford those shiney fancy sets (if I understood bonus'). 

 

Some people hate farming.  Some people hate marketing.  Some people hate (certain) story arcs.  That's fine!  But don't choose to hate farmers or marketeers or story runners.  Everyone has the ability to play whichever way they enjoy.  

 

Lashing out at each other just serves to divide a small community.  The changes to inf earning while exemped are miniscule, anyone saying otherwise clearly hasn't kept very good track.  I havent even tried using reward merits to make inf and my baby heroes still have more than they need.  

 

Anyway, I just hate seeing people blow something so trivial all out of proportion and then turn the blame and hate on others.  Be responsible for your own actions and reactions and try to stay civil.  It is a GAME.  It will be alright.  

I made 5 new alts last week.  That's about normal for me.  I do it differently now than I did before the Exemplar nerfing.

 

-I no longer exemp down.  No point in it.  I've seen all the lower level content plenty of times before.  If there's a double merit event, I hit it with an appropriately-leveled character instead.

-I PL (second account farmer) to level 28 or so.  Takes all of 30 mins or less.  I use double XP token for farmee and PL for AE tickets now rather than recipe drops.

-I hand starting toon a bankroll of 1-200 converters.  They run upstairs to AE and cash in their 5-6K AE tickets for lvl 10-14 bronze rewards rolls.  I buy salvage needed, craft and use converters to get what that toon needs, or flip to get influence to buy what is needed.

-Don't really bother with Attuned now.  No need since won't be exemping down in future.

 

Takes a lot longer doing the whole building effort as I've gotta make my IO sets rather than just buy them all outright.  But I ended up with 5 new alts, all with top-tier builds (minus their purples they'll accumulate along the way), all self funded and with about a billion influence between the 4 of them in additional income due to all the flipping.  All are already in their mid-30's after several TF's and mission teams and the usual MSR's.  

 

It's more boring to play this way for me, not sure I'll keep at it if it remains so, as there's less play time and far more marketplace maintenance time.  But I have adapted to what I need to do to maintain the "toon build lifestyle" I wanted.

 

I still AFK farm, but for tickets now.  I'm sure they'll nerf that also in future once the player population complains enough.  So make hay while I can.

 

 

[MunkiLord]

4 hours ago, Digirium said:

The real issue was and still is marketeers manipulating the market, creating a niche, setting their prices high. Sure, that can be competed with but who has the time to take for that when all everyone wants to do is play the game, Entering in to market PvP for the hell of it against the niche may be fun for a short while but you can be certain that the profiteers will to profit is strong/obsessive. 

Marketers compete with each other. If I set my prices too high, someone absolutely will come along and undercut me. Your statement is incorrect. 

[Gremlin]

9 minutes ago, Crysis said:

I made 5 new alts last week.  That's about normal for me.

Thanks for posting that. I love it when people provide detailed information about something.

[MunkiLord]

12 minutes ago, Crysis said:

I made 5 new alts last week.  That's about normal for me.  I do it differently now than I did before the Exemplar nerfing.

 

-I no longer exemp down.  No point in it.  I've seen all the lower level content plenty of times before.  If there's a double merit event, I hit it with an appropriately-leveled character instead.

-I PL (second account farmer) to level 28 or so.  Takes all of 30 mins or less.  I use double XP token for farmee and PL for AE tickets now rather than recipe drops.

-I hand starting toon a bankroll of 1-200 converters.  They run upstairs to AE and cash in their 5-6K AE tickets for lvl 10-14 bronze rewards rolls.  I buy salvage needed, craft and use converters to get what that toon needs, or flip to get influence to buy what is needed.

-Don't really bother with Attuned now.  No need since won't be exemping down in future.

 

Takes a lot longer doing the whole building effort as I've gotta make my IO sets rather than just buy them all outright.  But I ended up with 5 new alts, all with top-tier builds (minus their purples they'll accumulate along the way), all self funded and with about a billion influence between the 4 of them in additional income due to all the flipping.  All are already in their mid-30's after several TF's and mission teams and the usual MSR's.  

 

It's more boring to play this way for me, not sure I'll keep at it if it remains so, as there's less play time and far more marketplace maintenance time.  But I have adapted to what I need to do to maintain the "toon build lifestyle" I wanted.

 

I still AFK farm, but for tickets now.  I'm sure they'll nerf that also in future once the player population complains enough.  So make hay while I can.

 

 

I'm still curious about these market exploits you mentioned a few pages back. 

[Grouchybeast]

2 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

I'm still curious about these market exploits you mentioned a few pages back. 

Curious and excited!  People keep promising there are all these easy price-fixing exploits on the market that marketeers use to make their billions, but no one ever spills the beans.  I'm sure this is the time someone will come though!

 

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to get back to looking for the flying pigs someone told me they'd spotted out of the window.

[Grouchybeast]

33 minutes ago, tidge said:

This thread:

 

 

SwitchFade:

 

 

In my head Switchfade is more like this:

 

Edited April 20, 2020 by Grouchybeast

[Crysis]

19 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

I'm still curious about these market exploits you mentioned a few pages back. 

We don't discuss exploits on the forums, now do we?