Reinstate 2x influence at 50

[Outrider_01]

23 hours ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

Even if they were "using as intended", nothing in a game is set in stone - if something is having a negative effect even if it is WAI, then the devs are going to stomp it.

Most likely, they didn't care as much.  Its when they found the patrol exp bug, they just used the Positron supported and approved method to "fix" the problem; I4 it into the ground. 

 

If they want to fix something, I can understand..  its how they did it.  They didn't even communicate before hand the problem,  "patrol exp was unintentionally boosting beyond expectations and players were not aware."  They didn't even fix the bug, they just removed it and hand waved away something they didn't seem to like. 

 

All I am going to say, if they are going to do something like that they need to communicate its breaking their expectations.  Hammering it down and weak ass excuse afterward the fact, sorry it looks more like they were covering their ass. 

 

On the flip side, "guys, HC Dev crew in the house here.  Its come to our attention AE is generating problems beyond our expectations and control.  Expect some changes shortly." 

 

Done, all there was to fixing the problem, easier to let down slowly expecting it than kicked in the nuts, and stomped in the face over milk money influence.  Devs giveth, can taketh back as an Indian giver but at least be upfront about it.

[SwitchFade]

1 hour ago, MTeague said:

I would add a clarifier to this point. You may or may not agree with me, but it's my take on it. 

 

If I buy a Red Fortune +Defense for 2,000,000, and then turn right around and post that SAME THING for 4,000,000. 

• yes, that's inflationary and arguably parasitic.
• I mean, the same thing happens all the darn time in the real world... middlemen are everywhere. 
• But in the real world there's typically some contribution in terms of storage / warehousing / maintenance of supply lines, something, to justify that middleman's slice of the pie.  Maybe not all the time, but usually. 
• But the above example of buying and reposting the same darn things to the same market.... is basically Day Trading.  Whether or not I should, I hold a distinctlly un-charitable opinion of that. 

But, contrast that with buy a Dampened Spirits To-Hit Debuff/Recharge recipe, craft it, convert the result until you get a LoTG Def/+7.5% global recharge. 

• I do not consider that inflationary or parasitic in any way.
• You have consumed and destroyed some raw materials to produce a more valued commodity that people are willing to pay more for.  Not unlike buying the raw materials and then selling pizza.

A few good topics here.

 

We're touching on what is called Annual Carrying Cost Of Inventory; the cost to acquire, hold, move and sell a good, as averaged annually. In a snapshot this is Carrying cost of Inventory. Remember, this is largely dependent on W.A.C.C., which is Weighted average cost of Capital.

 

We also touch on inflation, but let's recall that inflation is the process by which each unit of currency is devalued as more units are added to circulation. Price movement in one direction or another reaffirms that the demand curve consists of every point a participant along the curve is willing to pay, at that specific quantity.

 

When an economic aprticipant is active in a supply chain, for instance a reseller; that someone buying a good and selling it at a higher price actually causes deflation, due to "taxes." Whether or not this behavior is predatory is debatable, but this causes deflation and income redistribution.

 

We also review normal vs inferior goods here, as well as substitutable goods. An economy where all goods are normal and substitutable allows for lower overall market basket prices, increased supply and quicker inventory turns.

 

All of which are interlinked, with the main theme being that income creation, adding to total units of currency in circulation, causes inflation by devaluing each individual unit, where buying and reselling cause a change only in distribution of the quantity of currency currently in circulation, as well as deflating it through taxes.

 

One causes direct inflation, the other causes direct deflation; regardless of income distribution, allocation or equality.

[MunkiLord]

On 5/26/2020 at 7:51 PM, ForeverLaxx said:

I never understood people who try to claim something wasn't an exploit because the game allowed it to happen. It being allowed to happen at all is why it's an exploit and not a hack/cheat, but for some reason, people think that's means it must automatically be okay.

It's all about the negative connotation of the word exploit. People often see it as an issue of morality and bad intentions, so when something they do is considered an exploit if offends them.

[Doc_Scorpion]

13 hours ago, Outrider_01 said:

All I am going to say, if they are going to do something like that they need to communicate

They did communicate - "there was a problem, we fixed it".  It's right there in the patch notes.

The Dev's are not responsible for meeting the delusional expectations of players.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Doc_Scorpion
speeling is hard.

[Outrider_01]

11 hours ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

They did communicate - "there was a problem, we fixed it".  It's right there in the patch notes.

The Dev's are not responsible for meeting the delusional expectations of players.

We are not on the same page of what I am trying to say.

 

Link - Jimmy

 

Quote

 

The following change was omitted from the beta patch notes due to a related exploit:

• Influence gain can no longer be increased by disabling XP

We’ve made this change to reduce the influence income gap between players who farm and those that do not. The amount of additional influence gained by abusing level 49 missions simply wasn’t healthy for the overall economy of the game, and generally unfair towards those who play standard level 50 content instead of farming.

 

The last half I can agree with, if they deem it.  I don't disagree, they are the developers and its their call.

 

The first part in yellow, not only did they forget to add it on patch day they didn't say before hand.  If they are going to do something that dramatic, the least they could of done as I said "AE is causing a problem, we are going to make some changes" before they did it.  Its like evicting someone, you don't bust the door down and haul stuff out without first posting notice.  The door busting is after there is no chance of coming to an agreement; but in HC we don't have a choice.  Regen got nerfed way back on live, but the developers told before hand...it was just too powerful and not coinciding with their vision; they were not happy but came to accept it.

 

The point is, more open communication before hand.  That is all.  Tell people about change, they can expect and accept the idea more.  Communication is key to understanding, even if people don't like the change.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Outrider_01

[MTeague]

3 minutes ago, Outrider_01 said:

The first part in yellow, not only did they forget to add it on patch day they didn't say before hand.  If they are going to do something that dramatic, the least they could of done as I said "AE is causing a problem, we are going to make some changes" before they did it.  Its like evicting someone, you don't bust the door down and haul stuff out without first posting notice. 

a) i disagree that this was a dramatic change, even remotely on the same scale as evicting someone from a dwelling

b) what would advance notice have really permitted you or anyone else to do?  If they were firmly committed to the idea and NOT going to change their mind regardless of feedback?

 

I get frustration. I get that I'm also quite removed from the issue, and don't feel it as I never did farming or double-inf generation by this method.  I always kept XP on, and went for Incarnate slots, or Vet Levels Just Because, or moved onto a new alt.  So maybe me not really using it ever is leaving me 100% blind to the impact of this change. 

 

But I really don't see what advance notice would have allowed anyone to do.

Not if they were of the firm opinion that it had to be done regardless.

 

At most I guess you could have spent the last X days before the deadline in full-farming mode?  What opportunity do you feel was lost because they did not do advance notice?

[AerialAssault]

 

I've been using the Reward Merits -> Enhancement Boosters -> Wentworths -> Quick money route. Probably not the most efficient but I've been able to IO up several characters with laughable ease compared to how the market was on Live.

[Alchemystic]

If you're a casual gamer then why does having a build that requires purples even concern you? You can easily play the game on SOs if you aren't really going to invest in the bulk of the challenging content. If you wanted to play that kinda stuff then that's where you need to work on a build to engage it, just like in any other game.

Sounds to me like you just want all of the rewards of playing the game... without actually playing the game.

[ForeverLaxx]

2 hours ago, Outrider_01 said:

The point is, more open communication before hand.  That is all.  Tell people about change, they can expect and accept the idea more.  Communication is key to understanding, even if people don't like the change.

The thing you're missing is that it was an exploit, and exploits are generally never mentioned that they're getting fixed until the fix happens. The reason should be obvious, but just in case you missed it, you don't announce to the playerbase that you're fixing an exploit (especially one many people weren't even aware was happening) so you can avoid having that exploit be, uh, exploited more heavily and intentionally than before. Had they told everyone that they were going to make adjustments to farming, players would assume that means they're going to nerf it (because that's always player response to an announcement for change) and head into their farms with a higher level of fervor and dedication than before. If you arm the players with the knowledge of the exploit itself, you get the previous response plus additional players jumping in to get their slice before it's all taken away.

In regards to this particular exploit, all that would mean is that the farmers "in the know" would pull further and further ahead and devalue currency at a much faster rate than what was already happening. It would allow these players to build a cushion against the exploit, which isn't in the dev's best interest when trying to balance a future problem. This isn't a case of something old being retired so "get it while you still can", this is an exploit that threatens the longterm health of the economy and giving any forewarning at all undermines the intention of closing said exploit.

 

tl;dr: exploits are almost never talked about before the fix is live to prevent preemptive abuse of the exploit and to limit its current impact.

[MTeague]

52 minutes ago, Tyrannical said:

If you're a casual gamer then why does having a build that requires purples even concern you? 

I don't feel this is valid criticism.  This isn't WoW.  This isn't somethign where your Best-In-Slot Mythic 25 man raid drops can ONLY drop from specific content, are immediately Soulbound, and might only drop once after 6 six weeks of focusing the same raid set while 12 or more people want that same drop. 

 

Purples are shiny.  That easy.  It's entirely understandable why people want them.  I would caution them that purples are NOT always your best slotting choices (melee attacks I'm often happier with Touch of Death, etc).  But I still get the desire for the perceived "best stuff".

 

52 minutes ago, Tyrannical said:

ISounds to me like you just want all of the rewards of playing the game... without actually playing the game.

They ARE playing the game.  Maybe not as many hours as you or I clock.  But they're playing the same game. 

 

The good news is any player CAN still get the drops. It just might take them longer.  Absolute worst case, 100 merits gets you a purple recipe.  Now if you want 6 full purple sets, yes, thats 6x6x100 = 3600 merits.  And, to be clear, I would NOT buy that many purples directly with merits.  But it can be done, by anyone, no matter how casually you play the game, even if it might be the project of a half a year because you can only play a few hours for a couple nights a week.

 

Me personally?  I would use Converter Roulette to earn the Inf in a fraction of time, by crafting Uncommon IO recipes, using Enhancement Converters to convert the result to valuable Rares, posting them for sale, then buying whatever purple recipe / IO was cheapest, and using MORE Enhancement Converters to change that to the one I want to slot.  I'd only directly buy purple recipes with IO's if I wanted something now-dammit-now and was sitting on a pile of 1800+ merits.  (which, some of my characters are).  

Edited May 28, 2020 by MTeague

[Alchemystic]

@MTeague

Play casual games win casual prizes 

[Luminara]

2 hours ago, Outrider_01 said:

The first part in yellow, not only did they forget to add it on patch day they didn't say before hand.

 

Because they recognized that even the mention of a reduction to maximum inf* gain would, potentially, have devastating short-term repercussions, and long-term effects which could take six months to a year to level put.

 

If they had stated their intentions, they faced the prospect of more people actively and determinedly farming, and/or those who already farmed doubling down on their efforts, to accumulate as much extra inf* as possible.  Given that this would be viewed as a "farming nerf", it was also reasonable to expect that supplies going to the market would have been reduced, as players kept more recipes and/or salvage.  The existing supply would also, conceivably, dwindle as people panic-bought, theorizing that a reduction in inf* might drive prices up later.  This behavior would have resulted in significant price increases across the market, creating the exact conditions feared and leading to further increases as more panic-buying occurred.  Over the course of the weeks/months before the patch went live, players could have stockpiled enormous sums of inf*, drastically shorted the market supply and significantly increased prices across the board.

 

Effectively, by announcing the change before implementation, they might have created exactly the conditions they hoped to prevent by making the change in the first place, and the negative impact would've lingered on for a long time afterward.  Yes, being kept in the dark until after the fact is unpleasant, but the consequences of announcing their intentions could have been worse, and that was what they had to deal with.  Like it or not, a lot of people are selfish, panicky and not very bright, and would unintentionally fuck the economy up so badly it would never recover, given the opportunity.  The HC team decided not to give them that opportunity.

[Sovera]

This thread can be boiled down a lot to 'devs quietly correct bug to not advertise it past the small minority who used it. Bug users make a loud public fuss advertising to everyone about the bug while demanding to get it back'.

 

Can you imagine the devs accepting to put it back now? Everyone (who bothers farming) makes 50% more money. since they have 50% more money now they don't mind paying more to get what they want. Ergo everything now costs 50% more.

 

But now they have to farm to get it.

[skoryy]

1 hour ago, Sovera said:

But now they have to farm to get it.

Yup.  Farming is great. Everyone having to farm to keep up, not nearly as much.

Edited May 28, 2020 by skoryy

[Greycat]

3 hours ago, Tyrannical said:

@MTeague

Play casual games win casual prizes 

COH is a pretty casual game overall. Fortunately, even "casual" players can get purples dropping.

 

Seriously. Saying anything that smacks of "I am more hardcore than you and deserve this more" is like bragging that you're the best at teeball. In your 30s.

[MunkiLord]

7 hours ago, Outrider_01 said:

 

The first part in yellow, not only did they forget to add it on patch day they didn't say before hand.  If they are going to do something that dramatic, the least they could of done as I said "AE is causing a problem, we are going to make some changes" before they did it.  Its like evicting someone, you don't bust the door down and haul stuff out without first posting notice.  The door busting is after there is no chance of coming to an agreement; but in HC we don't have a choice.  Regen got nerfed way back on live, but the developers told before hand...it was just too powerful and not coinciding with their vision; they were not happy but came to accept it.

That's a terrible comparison since people need shelter for things like staying alive and health. People need Influence in CoH for things like showing off and being generally Ebil.

5 hours ago, Tyrannical said:

If you're a casual gamer then why does having a build that requires purples even concern you? You can easily play the game on SOs if you aren't really going to invest in the bulk of the challenging content. If you wanted to play that kinda stuff then that's where you need to work on a build to engage it, just like in any other game.

Sounds to me like you just want all of the rewards of playing the game... without actually playing the game.

I get your point. I just like to say that at this point since it is so relatively easy, I no longer use purples as any sort of reliable way to measure if someone is a casual player or not.

[MunkiLord]

25 minutes ago, Greycat said:

COH is a pretty casual game overall. Fortunately, even "casual" players can get purples dropping.

 

Seriously. Saying anything that smacks of "I am more hardcore than you and deserve this more" is like bragging that you're the best at teeball. In your 30s.

I used to play slow pitch softball in my 20s and catcher was my favorite because I didn't have to run and I could drink beer between pitches.

[Alchemystic]

@MunkiLord @Greycat

I'm not saying that if you don't have purple IOs you're a casual, but if you admit you're only playing causally you won't really need them.

 

Edited May 28, 2020 by Tyrannical

[MTeague]

28 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

I used to play slow pitch softball in my 20s and catcher was my favorite because I didn't have to run and I could drink beer between pitches.

Wait, I thought company softball, you swung the bat one handed and carried your beer with you as you ran from home to first.  Which slowed you down, but every infielder had to manage their beers too....

[MunkiLord]

27 minutes ago, MTeague said:

Wait, I thought company softball, you swung the bat one handed and carried your beer with you as you ran from home to first.  Which slowed you down, but every infielder had to manage their beers too....

This wasn't for a company, so we didn't carry it around the bases. Clearly we were amateurs.

[Doc_Scorpion]

1 hour ago, MTeague said:

Wait, I thought company softball, you swung the bat one handed and carried your beer with you as you ran from home to first.  Which slowed you down, but every infielder had to manage their beers too....

When I was in the Navy, if a base runner kicked over the baseman's beer it was an automatic out.

[SwitchFade]

1 minute ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

When I was in the Navy, if a base runner kicked over the baseman's beer it was an automatic out.

Quick, someone post a meme...

 

"In the navy!"

 

😁

[MTeague]

40 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

Quick, someone post a meme...

 

"In the navy!"

 

😁

Oh god I can only hear the Village People in my head.  Time to pour a large drink.

[MunkiLord]

52 minutes ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

When I was in the Navy, if a base runner kicked over the baseman's beer it was an automatic out.

This is a fantastic rule and should really apply at all times for everything.

[Haijinx]

11 hours ago, MunkiLord said:

This is a fantastic rule and should really apply at all times for everything.

This would have interesting connotations in certain .. under-clothed .. entertainment venues where a lot of Beers get accidentally kicked over.